here's what I've got. my brother got a girl pregnant. They topped dating during the pregnancy. She still lives at home with her mother who runs a foster home. My brother is older than she is. My brother wants nothing more than to be a huge part of his childs life. He wanted to go to doctor visits during the pregnancy, they prevented it. (by they...i mean her mother is hugely involved). he wanted to be present at the birth, they called him the next day to tell him it already happened. he went to the hospital to see the baby, and the mother pulled him aside while he was washing his hands, to tell him that although he is the father he shouldn't expect to have any role in raising this child. We told him to just hold out, and approach friend of the court to help him get time with his son. Well...I can't beleive it, but the courts have not helped much. Since he was a tiny newborn, and the mom chose to breastfeed my brothers visitation consisted of 2 hours a day, 3 days a week, mid day, at her house. My brother has complied, agreeing that he needed to be near the mom for the feedings. They made every attempt to make him as uncomfortable as possible, making him know that he was totally unwelcomed at the home, but he kept at it, because his son is important to him. he would call me in tearns after his visits, extrmely discouraged, but willing to put up with it for his child.but.now the child is almost one, walking, drinking from a cup, eating finger foods...my brother approached the courts asking for 2 overnights per week. (mind you...we (the rest of the family, grandparents, uncles, aunts, cousins) have only seen this child 4 times total...all times with the mother who made us feel like we were putting her out for bringing him over) the courts are making it difficult for my brother again...saying that before he gets overnights, he needs to complete a parenting class (serioulsy...has anyone out there had to take a parenting class to be a parent?) so...he is willing to do so...only there isn't one available in our town...we've called everyone from the local hospital, university, community college and social work organizations. we are so frustrated and they are loving every minute of it. They keep trying to make my brother feel guilty about him wanting his own time with his son, saying that since they have experience with foster children, they know the (and i quote)"the trauma he will experience when he is ripped away from his familiar surroundings and the only family he knows"
correct me if i'm wrong...but that just seems like it shouldn't even be allowed, or legal! my brother is the father....and they are the ones creating the horrible situation....they are the ones that will make it h*** o* this child! my brother is just fine when it comes to taking care of children. i trust him with my own. plus he has me (mother of two) my mother (mother of 3) grandmothers, aunts and friends who are all right there willing to help him if he gets stuck not knowing what to do.
i'm angry....and if there is another side to this...help me see it...
also...any advice?
well...first of all thank you for letting us know that we are not out of line. Your responsed helped my brother to "not give up"! I printed them for him to read and get "inspired". He called around to all the agencies in the area that had family education and there are no classes available in our area (traverse city) they said they used to have parenting classes like that, but no longer do. All of the classes offered now are infant care(his son is 1), breastfeeding, lamaze and classes for abusive parents (which he's not). He has decided to appeal the referee's decision and take the matter to the judge. Wish us luck! Unfortunatley, he cannot afford a lawyer, and in these economic times, we cannot afford to help with that expense either, but we are all going to help him by being witnesses and supporting him the best we can.
I'll let you know how it turns out....hopefully overnight visits will be coming soon.
thank you so much for helping!
Hi K., have you tried CARE in fraser?? I know they do a parenting class. They are located on Utica and Masonic. Also, has he contacted a lawyer yet? It seems that going thru the "system" isn't working. Hope this helps, L.
If the baby is still breastfed, longer visits especially overnights, would be upsetting for not only mom but the baby. That may have to be down the road. Other than that, I don't see what the problem is. He should keep as good a relationship as he can with the mom and her mom and continue to seek visitation, but be patient.
Lawyer up!!!! Sounds like the family has connections with the system. He has rights to the child unless for any reason he has given the cause for withholding his time. Good Luck!
I found a website called family solution centers.com. It is an advocacy group that specializes in custody, visitation and father's rights. They claim to be much less expensive than lawyers, it may be worth sending them an email outlining your situation. I also found dads of michigan.org. They have a phone number you can call and are based in Bloomfield Hills, they may be able to give good advice on where to find a parenting class.
Also try your local health department, where I am in Oakland County they offer all kinds of help for parents.
I hope your brother gets the help and information he needs, and the baby's mother sees she is only hurting her child by denying him a loving father. Tell him to keep pushing for his rights. The only reason the little boy may be "traumatised being ripped away from the only family he knows" is because his mother and grandmother have created this terrible situation for him. You would think that being foster parents they would realise how important it is for the little boy to have both parents around, and to have regular contact with his loving father. Keep supporting your brother, he's very lucky to have you.
He should get a lawyer and fight for his right to see his son! Document everything!
His son is going to be so glad that his daddy cared enough to stay involved in his life. So many dads would throw in the towel . Anyway, everyone has suggested good ideas like keeping a journal of visits and such. It demonstrates responsibility to a court. Also, I know in Macomb County there is a place called CARE that works with the courts on all kinds of education programs. They have parenting classes too. http://www.careofmacomb.com/parenting_ed.html
If your brother doesn't live in MAcomb then maybe he can call and get information on where he can find resources in his area.
Best of luck to your brother!
If possible, have your brother get the BEST and MOST AGGRESSIVE lawyer he can - that knows the law better than the judges in the courts. Only then will he be able to have any peace of mind/leverage that he is doing what he lawfully should be able to do, which should be 50/50.
K. -
My heart breaks for you and your brother. Unfortunately, my husband was in almost the exact same situation as your brother. From birth, he only got 1 hour a day with his son and he lived 1 hour away from the mother, so he would drive 2 hours after work every day just to spend a very hostile hour with his son (she also lived with her parents, and they were all very rude to him). He didn't get overnight visitation until my stepson turned 3, and then it was a struggle. He needed to hire an attorney and go back to court to have the judge make an order. FOC was no help.
My stepson is 10 years old now, and unfortunately it has been a struggle this whole time. His mother has been badmouthing my husband the entire time, trying to drive a wedge between the two of them. I don't mean to depress you, but prepare you for what is likely to happen. The good news is that my stepson is very happy to spend time with us, we have nice weekends together and we only have to deal with the occasional comment that his mother has made to him. He'll ask us about the stuff she says now, and we try to explain it in the easiest way possible without badmouthing his mom. It's tough, but we realize that if we do say anything bad about her, we're just as bad as her and our stepson loves her, so we don't want to hurt him.
I had a friend who went through a similar situation as well, and when his daughter got to her teenage years, she realized how hateful her mother was and asked him to petition the courts for custody. So that's what we're hoping for.
Tell your brother that he's doing the right thing and that he should keep doing whatever he needs to do to see his son. It sounds like his son will need the stable influence and truly, the good outweighs the bad. Every time we see my stepson, I'm reminded of how far we've come and how lucky we are to have him in our lives, despite the hassle with his mother. Good luck and God bless!
K.,
My brother in law went through the same thing and more when they finally got visits with her she accused my sister of breast feeding the daughter who was 1 1/2 at the time this was the first of 3 times social services had been called on my sisters family nothing was ever found. The process has been long and very stressful on the family. 13 years of this process they got visitation after a little over a year but the mother did not promote a relationship between the father and child and there is your key to it.
Fast forward to this week and they finally have custody of his daughter well she is not in his house as of today but they are waiting on an emergency court order to do that. The judge finally agreed that the mother was unfit and refused to foster a relationship with her father.
Tell your brother to hang in there if he wants to be part of his sons life it is going to take work, keep a log of everything times he sees the child what he does with him things they say to him etc. Parenting classes are hard to find but mandated by the courts in custody cases. The friend of the court should have a list or knowledge of where the classes are if the courts are mandating them.
If you have any questions email me.
Your brother is a great man. Many men are not willing tostep up to the plate. I would encourage him to keep fighting for his rights, while remaining calm and not causing any additional drama. It sounds that he should contact an attorney, if he cannot afford one he should call legal aid. Honestly the men that try to do right, usually get screwed and the one that don't take responsibility- get away with it.
In addition, I would encourage him to stay focused on his son and do not include any females (girlfriend) in the picture. Females can find many ways to minipulate situations. Generally, women are given the benefit of the doubt, so be calm, collective and respectful (even if it drives him crazy)
I know this is some hard stuff to deal with especially when you really love your children and cant see them all the time ... My boyfriend had to deal with this also as far as parenting time and the mother finding every little thing she could to make him not be able to see his son.. he went throught he supervised visits , parenting classes ( they took one session together) drug and alcohol assesment ( he doesnt do drugs and drinks on occassion ) he passed everything She had a lawer and it didnt help much at all. He had to deal with almost 2 years of supervised visits until he got to have visition at our house which in the beginning was only 2 hrs a day 2 days a week .. about a year of that he wrote another letter to the court saying that he was over ready to have overnight visits which soon came .. so now he gets his 2hrs ( unless they agree on something else ) 2 days a week and then every other weekend at the house .. it just takes time and as long as he does what the judge tells him without an arguement he should get his way as long as he showed to be fit...Also he can write the courts for now and say that her family is really rude to him ect.. and the court should make a rule that her family cant be in the room or home while he is on his visit .. thats what my boyfriend had to do with the other mothers boyfriend .. he was sick of going over there and her boyfriend making comments and the altercations they would get into so now they are not even alowd to be in the same room as each other or say anything to each other no matter what it is .. and that any conflict what so ever is to be dealt with between the mother and the father ... good luck and tell him to keep pushing on its great that there are dads that are willing to be in there childrens life good luck and keep us updated
Hi K.,
Since this family is uncooperative by causing so much grief and will not work with your brother, your brother needs to hire a custody attorney who can get him court orders for visitation and support. This is a very complicated, specialized area of law and the only way to get through the complex court system is with an experienced family law attorney who specializes in custody. FIA, court personnel--all are short-staffed and have an overabundance of cases to handle, plus they they cannot give out legal advice since they are not lawyers. I've been through the court system with my own divorce/custody matters for 12 years and have also worked in the field, and can tell you that he needs to hire a custody attorney if he wants to be involved in this child's life. It's worth every penny in the long run, trust me. Your brother will more than likely end up paying child support if he doesn't already and personally, if I were your brother, just by what you've written about the mother's family, I would definitely push a paternity test just to make sure the child is his.
Good Luck,
MC
Hi K.,
Your brother might want to try
http://www.mens-divorce.com/index.html (ADAM)
I'm not sure what county you live in, but years ago I lived with a man who had a child and was denied parenting time by the mother and the courts went along with it for who knows what reason. We hired ADAM and soon after had parenting time.
And about the parenting classes...yes, they are required. My sister-in-law is going through a divorce and she has to take a parenting class, but so does her soon to be ex. Both parents have to take this course in Wayne County. Her oldest is 20 and youngest is 6. Her parenting class is called Kids First and it is offered through Wayne County. Tell your brother to talk to Friend of the Court and have them recommend a parenting class.
Tell your brother to keep up the visits no matter how frustrating they are. His son will recognize him and when he is older he will remember that his dad does love him and was always there for him. When this does get straightened out and he has visitation and overnights his son will know him and be comfortable with him. As for the boys Mom, what a B----! Every child needs their Mom and Dad! My parents were divorced and my mother never spoke poorly of my Dad. She certainly could have. Why would you want to bad mouth your childs parent. Isn't that the most important person in their young life.
he may have to try to get a lawyer....and warning it may be a nasty fight...i wish him the best...not many young fathers step up to the plate
If you still can't find a place for parenting classes, I found a website called onlineparentclass.com It is approved online classes, and at the end you get a certificate showing you passed. Tell your brother to look into it. Tell him to stay strong and to keep fighting. You can also suggest he keep a log of when he seen the baby for how long, their attitudes etc. Tell him to bring little things when he visits like diapers or wipes or something and to log that too. The courts will love to see that he is trying to provide other than child support and with out having to be told. I'm not sure what county you live in, but if you are any where near Monroe county, I can recommend a GREAT lawyer!! Hope everything gets better. Stay strong and keep fighting!!
He needs a lawyer...pronto.
You will be so surprised what a lawyer can do! Friend of the court wont help! BUT when he gets a lawyer they always seem to lean towards that one! Trust me!
K., it sounds like you are a supportive sister. That's great your brother has someone to talk to and confide in.
Has he contacting any father's rights groups, such as DADs or the Family Rights Coalition? That may be another source of support and ideas.
Unfortunately the system is very biased against men. But if he keeps fighting for more time, FOC and the mother will probably wear down and agree to it.
it is going to be a cmplicated and long struggle. i would like to take the time and e-mail you directly. my e-mail is ____@____.com sister got pg by a friend and she actually tried to keep him from seeing the kids (she got pg with twins 1 b and 1 g). long story short after thousands of dollars her attorny told her that the father was loving and caring and willing to take care of them that she really had no case. if he is willing to spend the money, i would almost guarentee that he will get his time.
Many people have mentined a lawyer because it will take court action, not FOC but Circuit court, to assign him his rights. He can file a petition in court by himself to establish joint custody and parenting time.
Find out if his name is on the birth certificate.
Like others have said,your brother should absolutely keep a log of all interactions with the child, mom and family.
Above all, think of the child first and foremost.
It will pay off in the end. My husband's children were kept from him for 5 years. When they came back to him, they cut ties with the mom and have been dad's kids ever since.
I have heard the American Divorce Association for Men advertised ont eh radio. I know that there was not a divorce involved, but perhaps they will have a resource for him to go to. THere are too many Dad's that "throw away" their responsibilities. It makes me very angry for your brother that they are doing this to him. Is his name on the birth certificate and is he paying child support? That should help , I think.
If he is required to have supervised visits, she is probably telling lies about him. He can ask that they be supervised by a court appointed person or by someone from child services and not the mother. He needs to request with the help from a lawyer. I am divorced and have an ex that pulls every trick he can, and the friend of the court misread their own document and tried to take away all week-ends in the summer. I had to hire a lawyer and when we went before a judge, he said they were wrong and i was right and the FOC wouldn't even appear in court to defend themselves.
It sounds like the mothers family is in tight with the FOC, and family services. I would push for custody and get mental evaluations of the mother (they will require it of the father too), have depositions made (this is the only way to get things written in a court document so that if they lie it is written down and not just a discussion in front of the FOC). He needs a lawyer now.
Oh K. I am so sorry that your brother and yoru family are going through this. My brother recently went through this and still continues to struggle to see his daughter and she is 4 and 1/2. The courts favor her mom and she cries and carries on and they give in to her. We eventually hired a lawyer just to get him visitation rights. Tell him to hang in there. If you or him need someoen to talk to my e-mail address is ____@____.com and maybe my brother could give some advice and support. Have you checked spectrum as far as parenting classes? They usually offer them at the michigan street location. Good luck!
Dear K. if at all possible your brother should get an attorney to assist with getting visitation worked out and joint custody. Friend of the court is more so concerned with making sure payments are made on behalf of the child versus visitation etc. My husband and I got custody of his 2 children (6 and 7) at the time because the biological mother was unfit. We hired one attorney and he didn't do what we needed him to do so we fired him and hired a very competent woman attorney who was great. I hope this information is helpful. So sorry your brother is going through all of this. Tell him to hang in there. He sounds like a wonderful man trying to be a daddy to his child. D. Johnson
Hi K.,
Ok, now your brother decided after dating this girl or during her pregnancy that he doesn't want to be with her anymore. But he does want to be a part of his sons life. Unfortunately some women, not all, try to get back at the fathers through the children. We all know that people like her won't have any blessings until they do right by their kids. Your brother is trying to do the right thing. Just tell him to hang in there, that things will get better. He also need to pray that the Lord will delivery her from her evil ways.
Be patient, the Friend of the Court is something else...They require MUCH PRAYER!!!
Stay Enouraged!!!
That's awful! If he is indeed still looking for a parenting class Beaumont Hospital offers them. My husband took one just before our daughter was born. It's just one night (3hours) and they will give you a certificate of completion.
Also, recently a friend of mine found out he was not the father of his son and the child's father has since started taking him overnight (and to meet numerous unfamiliar family members)and it has gone really well. So, as for the trauma it will cause....there won't be any!
Has he hired a lawyer, instead of just utilizing the FOC?
I think that your brother really needs to get himself a lawyer. He has rights to the baby too, so he should get a lawyer and ask for joint custody. He needs to be part of that child's life, and it does sound like the mother and grandmother are doing more harm than good to the baby by keeping him from his father.
Hope everything works out. Good luck!!!
He needs a lawyer. If he already has one, and that's who represented him, he needs a new one. He should request a list of parenting classes from the court (that are available in town). He should request that both he and the mother of his child attend together, so that they can make this as comfortable for everyone as possible -esp. his son. If he needs parenting classes, I think both do. I'd honestly suggest they both get some counseling together. It can only help both of them, but will also make the situation better. They need to learn how to communicate, even though they aren't in a loving relationship together. They are parents together and will be linked together forever. I realize he's willing, but she has to learn how to get along. Best of luck, S.
K.,
You have received so much wonderful advice.. after reading them all, the only thing I have to add is to remind your brother to keep all the receipts for the gifts/necessities he purchases and to staple them to the sheet that has his records of that visit or of his leaving them when he tried to visit.
That way if they say anything to dispute or deny his repeated gifts, he'll have the proof right there also. I mean.. he wouldn't be buying diapers or figts for a child that is not allowed to come over unless he was seeing him or making an attempt to see him.
I wish your brother and your family all the luck and love in the world,
L.
I am on the other side of this, so maybe I can show you the other side. 2 hours 3 days a week in their home is very reasonable for a young baby. Getting closer to 1, the visits should be a little longer and obviously out of the home if he knows what to do with the baby. However, just jumping into 2 overnights a week is really traumatic for a baby. I can see that he would want to spend time with his baby, but you have to consider the child. I feel like a baby's sleep is so important and when you just jump from a 2 hour visit to an overnight, it is really upsetting to the baby and it disrupts their sleep pattern. Shorter frequent visits are supposed to be better for younger children and then gradual increase. I don't know what county you are in, but Livingston County has a good example of the type of parenting time that is better for young babies(they have a website too). Most Friend of the Courts don't consider the age, but this one does. Good Luck to you and your family. Hopefully everyone can work together to do what is best for the child. It's really hard, but in the end you have to work together regardless of what the courts decide.
I don't really have much advise for you... sorry. I personally think that your brother is getting screwed! It's rare this day and age that a father actually wants to stick around and raise their child and I think that the mother is crazy to not accept the help! Where does your brother live? I work at the YWCA in Kalamazoo and I believe that there are parenting classes there. If we don't have any, we would most likely be able to help your brother find classes to take to fulfill his requirement. Good luck to you and your brother and write if you have any more questions.
i think i would call fia or cps they should beable to tell him where togo for help also there are alot of great lawyer out there that are for fathers rights good luck i hope he gets time with his son and tell him way to go for being a stand up guy it not often that you come across a guy so willing to fight for time with his child
ps what county dose he live in i found so many i would be willing to make call to find on
Darn straight the girl and her family are being totally selfish. Do they have ulterior motives? E.g., trying to get some extra income (child welfare $$).
If I were in your brother's shoes I would consult another lawyer. In fact your family should band together and consult a lawyer as your rights have been invalidated and ignored. This isn't right and there are thousands of others in the same predicament who have managed to reach an agreement.
Don't give up. Child welfare services, another friend of the court, a lawyer. Consider this tho too: is your brother's residence outfitted for a baby? It may be taken into consideration when deciding suitability. And nursing should not be a reason to hold against not sharing visitation/custody. There are pumps the mom could supply. She has a lot of growing up to do, is not taking a break up well at all, and her parents are playing right along. It's good to be supportive, but not to the extent of unrealistic. Their little angel obviously did not use all sorts of brains cells either.
a good site to get some insite and support into father's rights is http://www.deltabravo.net/
they also have a free legal "ask a real lawyer" and a TON of forms, etc to download. we used this site every day going through custody--FYI my husband won sole custody.
he needs to filoe immediatly for visitation and get in touch with "Friend of the court" and make sure EVERy incidence is documented with dates and times. do this soon-so the precident is not set. things can get really nasty-but tell him to hang in there and get informed--there are right ways to do things - and even if the other party dosent follow the rules, he needs to. If he is labeled as a rule breaker in the beginning - even if he didnt mean it --it can hurt his chances of things later. unbfortunatly--the system is very biased against fathers--so a good lawyer is essencial!!
ALL FUTURE RULINGS will be connected to the initial case-so your best $ is spent NOW --rather than later trying to undo an unfavorable ruling
GOOD LUCK!
This story totally saddens me. My daughter's bio father has little to no interest in her life. She is now twelve years old and he rarely calls. She hasn't seen him since Christmas. Your brother's ex should be thrilled that your brother is willing to be a father to her child. It sounds to me as if the girl's mother is influencing her bad decisions. Maybe your brother could contact a father's advocacy group online that could give him some advice and information. Just assure him that he is doing the right thing. His son will know that he is doing everything in his power to be in his life. As his son grows older, he will appreciate him and will be old enough to make his own decisions. His son will be able to tell the courts that he wishes to stay with his father. My daughter wants nothing to do with her bio father. I can't blame her for that. She has a dad (step father) that has raised her since the age of 5. Children know what they want and who they feel comfortable with. I sure hope things get better. I will keep you all in my prayers.
R. :)
Wow - the poor guy. Does he have a lawyer or is he just trying to navigate the FOC system? If he doesn't have an attorney and he is in the Lansing area - send me a PM - I can give you the names of 2 lawyers who are awesome. We went through something similar at our house. Good luck!
I agree with what's already been said. He needs a lawyer if he doesn't have one, he needs to get a custody agreement drawn up. If the ex doesn't sign it eventually it'll go to a judge to decide. Also I think it'd be in his best interest to have a court-ordered paternity test done for peace of mind. They cost about $600-1,000 but at least he'll know this child is his or not. Don't let him sit on his laurels and wait for the courts either! Be aggresive! Call the lawyer and make sure they're doing what they're supposed to be. Call FOC and make sure they are also. I found out that the ex's lawyer will usually try to stall also, tell his lawyer that or else everyone will just take their own sweet time. It's definately important for him to get the ball rolling so to speak. The earlier in this child's life he gets involved, the better. Oh. Deifnately keep a log of all interactions he has with the mother too! That will come in VERY handy when he has all this proof in court and she has none.
Be presistant and go back to friend of the court, tell them they couldn't find a class and to please refer one., If all else fails, it would be worth it to get a lawyer and make your demands. They problay won't fight you if he shows he means business. In the meantime, go to any parenting confernces and take a local community college child development class to show the court effort. There is no reason why he should nt get he once a week and every other weekend like any any father should. I just wish the father of my kids would want to be so involved. Don't trust friend of the court to be on your side, it may cost money in the end but it will be worth it.
I assume his name is on the birth certificate as the father? If it's not, that would be the only reason I can think of to order parenting classes.
I'm curious how the court could order him to take a parenting class when none are offered in your area...when the court orders someone to do something the court provides the resource or tells the person how to accomplish the task. If you cannot find a parenting class call the friend of the court and explain the situation, if the FOTC will not help. Your brother needs a lawyer.
What an awful situation. I just wanted to say that Troy Beaumont Hospital offers parenting classes.
Another poster mentioned for your brother to log his visits and bring small gifts - this is a GREAT idea. Also make sure that he logs the attempts he makes at visits even when he's denied. Keep detailed dates, times, and notes on what happened. This will show that he really does want to be in the child's life. It sounds like you have a wonderful family so stick together and help your brother keep his spirits up. Good luck!
