Help! - Wilmington, MA

C.,

I recently saw an episode of Frontline on PBS about the overmedicated child. It talked about bipolar in children and many of the ills that parents go through who have a child with bipolar. Incidentally the episode is airing again in the 8th of April. Maybe it is something you can watch. I know it helped me to understand what these parents and children are going through. I hope it helps.

Deb

Hi . I am personally offended about your absolutely uneducated and misguided opinion of this child and anyone suffering from this disease. I am an educated , intelligent happy healthy mother of two and three in the fall, I also suffer from this difficult disease. It breaks my heart that you would teach your daughter such tyrant behavior. Bipolar is a disease , very complicated and it has many levels of behavior. This poor child is likely exhibiting the first symptoms of the disease and diagnosis may not be complete therefor very heavy medication transitions may not be in the cards yet. This disease is a huge danger , to the affected person not everyone around them. It is a sad misconception of others to assume it makes you "crazy" or " violent". If she had cancer would you mame her , and keep her from your child? That wouldn't be something this child chose either . Teaching children to avoid and ignore people they care about rather than helping and embracing is diguisting. I have never heard and adult make such a choice and force the issue on thier child, which I gather also has no ability to understand why. I think if this behavior is going to continue on your behalf you should inform that poor girls mother point blank , you don't know and choose not to understand the disease and would rather cast stones at a child and then would you have a fair fight. The choice to battle a happy frienship with two children is wrong and you will regret that behavior when your daughter is old enough to understand. You refer to her as " this poor girl" and then call her "off". This is a crisis I am certain for this child and her family, they don't need someone like yourself fueling the fire. In fact she would be better not having contact with your family as your opinion of her will affect her in ways even the disease could not. As a mother it is my job to teach my children understanding and acceptance , not hatred and ingnorance. In the future educate yourself about a situation before dragging children through the mud , as this little girl is not bipolar, she is an innocent little girl.

Hi C.,
I understand the difficult position you're in due to this young girl's behavior being directly related to a condition that is beyond her control. Are you certain that she is not going to be treated? If a child has an infection we put them on an antibiotic. I have a diabetic child who takes insulin shots daily to stay alive. Children take allergy medications to aid in decreasing their unpleasant symptoms. These are just some examples of course, but there must be some very legitimate reasons why the parents are handling their daughters condition in the manner that they are. I guess that's really irrelevent to your dilemma though. If any child is causing another to feel uncomfortable about something innocent that they're doing such as sitting next to another friend on the bus then that child should be distanced from yours. I agree with you that speaking to the young girl's mom is a step you must take. I know you feel that you need to approach the subject delicately and I agree. You might try by saying that you feel a bit uncomfortable calling but you have a situation concerning her daughter and yours that you need to discuss with her. Then you could go on to say that their seems to be a problem with possessiveness from what you've heard or witnessed. You can give examples here if the mother becomes defensive and even if she doesn't. She might open up to you and explain what her family is going through at this point. She needs to know that her daughter is causing your daughter(who happens to like her daughter very much) to feel upset. She might even be grateful for the call and the opportunity to speak with another mother regarding her daughter. If she is unwelcoming to your conversation then that will be unfortunate, but you have to protect your own daughter's well being first. You are her strongest advocate. You have every right to confront the issue, and you already said you want to approach it from the heart so you are definitely moving forward in a positive way. It's a difficult situation in any event, and I wish you luck.

C.,
i don't have time for long response, but i do know that bipolar is kind of an overused term right now, and many could be diagnosed with it....(see it as teacher and experienced mom of 3)
not sure if talking to the mom is a good idea; it will come across as unnecessarily insulting and judgemental; what would you say, anyways? that you don't want her daughter coming over any more at all? that's hard to do. you can discourage the relationship, encourage others; if your daughter is noticing issues like it sounds, she will probably take care of it herself or maybe ask you for little ways to help avoid the girl. be careful with your own daughter seeing that you are overly judgemental of the girl. that can backfire. do more listening than lecturing...take it from one who made those mistakes...

C.,
May I ask why are they on the same bus if they do not go to the same school. I don't think I would talk to the other mother unless something has happened to your daughter, or if she is afraid of her. If she is afraid of her, then I would probably just keep her away from her. When she knocks at your door, you can politely say "your daughter is busy and will not be out today". She can still be nice, and not hang out with her. If the other child is bothering her that is when I would speak to her mom. But remember it will be her child your talking to her about, we are all sensitive to criticism's of our own. If you have not talked to her mom, How do you know she is bipolar? and how do you know she is not medicated? If your daughter does not understand why she is acting a certain way. Then maybe you both can read about it. Just a thought. good luck.

By your own admission, all you really know about bipolar disorder is the sensationalized perspectives of the media and TV. In essence, I feel, you are discriminating against this girl for reasons you do not even understand, and, perhaps worse than that, you are instilling that prejudice into your daughter. Have you ever seen this child harm anyone? How is it that you know this child is not medicated? How do you know that it is bipolar disorder potentially affecting this girl's moods?

There are many types of bipolar disorder -
-- At the extreme of the "up" scale, some people believe that they are invincible, to the extent of trying to fly off tall buildings, but at the other end of the scale others merely become increasingly witty and feel that they have more energy and a more positive view on all the little pleasures in life.
-- At the "down" side things become a little more complex. At the EXTREME some can have homicidal thoughts, others are simply grouchy to a level no worse than a woman with PMS! Some become sullen, depressed, and sensitive emotionally.
-- The speed at which the change from "up to down" occurs are also variable. Some bipolar sufferers 'cycle' every three years, others cycle over a few weeks.

I am a rapid cycle, depressive bipolar. When I am/was up, I felt like I was the funniest person on the planet - when I am/was down, I would sink into depression and be very tearful, to the extent that I attempted suicide many times before I was diagnosed, and I would have days of being extremely angry for no apparent reason. As a rapid cycler, I tend to go through a full cycle in about 6-8 weeks.

Medications for bipolar are tricky to establish, as different combinations of moods and different bodies require different approaches. It took about a year to find a good balance of medications for me, and it is still not absolutely perfect. This is an even more difficult task in children, because the medications suitable for adults are not approved for children under 18.

I would recommend that you talk to the girl's mother about your concerns, but before doing so do some reading up on childhood bipolar disorder - I am sure you can find plenty of information through a Google search - and make sure that the girl's actions are not simply childhood tantrums that you would not condone.

Also, when you speak to the girl's mother, I would tell her that you would appreciate them calling before allowing the girl to arrive on your doorstep, as it is not always suitable for her to simply turn up. It is a common courtesy, and one that you have a right to.

C., I'd do some research on childhood bi-polar issues before you jump into this too far. I don't know if it causes the same issues as in adults. I have a similar issue with the little girl next door to me and I have found explaining to my daughter that sometimes the other girl makes poor decisions and she isn't a bad girl helps some. We also had the same bus issue and I ended up having to talk to the mom because the girl pulled my daughters hair- she was very understanding and made the girl apologize. I've talked with the child when she is at my house about my house rules and sent her home when she was getting out of control. I assure my daughter she can have other friends and no-one can tell her otherwise ( she has several possessive friends who don't like eachother!) and it's perfectly acceptable to nicely tell her friends that! Perhaps if you feel you need to talk to the Mom it can be more of a how can I help your daughter and what do I need to be aware of when she is in my house? I'm sorry your little one feels torn and this poor child is sick. I wish you the best, whatever you decide is best for your daughter!

I think it is important to make your decisions based on the other child's behaviors and not on your concerns about a diagnosis. You don't have all the medical information, it may not even be true, and you don't know about medication or therapies or anything else. Sometimes it takes a while for them to find the right medication and the right dosage, and when kids are entering puberty and their bodies are changing anyway, it can be a bit of a guessing game in the beginning.

Children should be supervised anyway, so you are on hand in case anything happens. However, unless this child has already engaged in acts of violence, there is no reason to keep the kids apart. Millions of people suffer from various forms of mental and emotional illness, and they are not violent. To discriminate against someone just because someone else like her made the news is senseless and counterproductive.

The child cannot help her behavior, and temper tantrums can be annoying but not dangerous, and isolating someone because of unrealistic fears can be very damaging without providing you with any benefit. Your daughter sounds compassionate, and she should be able to sit with whomever she wishes on the bus. Maybe she sits with this other girl on certain days, and encourages her other friends to take turns with this girl. What a great thing that would be, if this other girl actually had a few friends! What a gift!

You might talk to the mother if there is an episode of temper tantrums, and ask her the best way to handle her daughter - "Do you have any suggestions about successful ways to redirect her? Pre-adolescence is such a challenging time." - address the behavior, not the diagnosis. If you have not been involved with the parents before, then you are basing your information of diagnosis and treatment (or lack of treatment) on hearsay, which may or may not be accurate.

Meantime, you can go to the library and educate yourself about bi-polar disorders (and there are many, along a spectrum). The child may also have other issues at home or school which you are attributing to bi-polar disorder which may or may not be the cause.

You sound very compassionate and concerned, and your daughter has absorbed those values. This is wonderful. This other girl could probably use more friends like your daughter, and more caring neighbors like you. I would think that you could be vigilant without banning the girl from your home, you could help them make brownies or crafts and then be on hand without stopping their interaction. You could also consider inviting a 3rd girl to the house to expand the circle of friends.

Please don't abandon this child without good reason. Good luck.

Dear C.,

I understand you are trying to protect your daughter and that is what every good parent's priority is.

Have you ever thought of putting yourself in this child's parent's shoes? Or viewing the world from your daughter's friend's eyes? The world is very unkind to individuals who are different, and if your daughter likes her, I'm sure she doesn't totally understand why they can not continue to be friends. They both can learn a lot from each other, and you would be surprised at how much you might learn from both of them. Children can be mean, but they can also be very kind. Your daughter likes her friend for who she is. Your daughter sounds like someone much older than her years. Someone who is understanding and unconditionally accepting of this child. What a gift she has already given her friend.

I don't know if you are friends with this little girl's parents, but I'm sure she is feeling isolated to some extent and feeling terrible about the rejection her daughter is experiencing from other children. This is extremely painful for a parent to experience. Have you ever invited this Mom out for a walk or over for coffee or tea or tried to befriend her. I'm sure she could use a friend too. Maybe having Mom over with her daughter might lessen your fears, or help you understand what being Bi-polar is all about and she may share why she isn't on medication. There are many reasons for not medicating children with this disorder.

I have a son who's best friend was diagnosed with Bi-polar at a young age. He was not on any medication until his late teens. Although there were times when I would have to say "It's time for you to go home" or have them take a break if things were stressful, but, they have remained friends through the years (going on 25 yrs. now). My son was at one time, his "only" friend. My son has grown up to be extremely thoughtful and caring of other people - possibly because he had a "first hand" opportunity of "being a friend" to someone who was different and just needed someone. He was needed, and isn't that why God created more than one person on this earth? So we could be there for each other? the "Gift" we give, may in turn be a greater "Gift" that we received.

May God be with you, your daughter and her friend.

When you answer the door, just tell the girl that you are sorry, but now is not a good time to play, or that you have other plans, or that you are busy right now. After about three times, she will get the hint and not stop by, or at least as much). Just because she comes to your house uninvited, doesn't mean you have to agree to let them play.

Let your daughter keep her friendship with this little girl. I'm glad that your daughter is a compassinate and caring little girl.

L. ;-)

That's a tough one but I wonder if you were able to find a short article on the internet about Bi-polar and the problems when it is not treated you could then print it out. Then maybe you could stop by the mom's home when her child isn't there and say you found this article and were concerned about your children doing things together at this time even though you really feel badly about it because she is a nice girl. Even as I type this I realize that the mom and daughter may not be very receptive to what you have to say. I will pray that you are able to share what is on your heart in a kind way and that your words are received with some openness.

I can imagine how difficult this situation must be. My husband had a friend that was bipolar (adult friendship). When on her meds she was fine, when she wasn't, it was tough. My suggestion is for when the girl shows up at your house - just tell her your daughter is not available to play. She is a child and is not owed an explanation, nor would I encourage you to lie to her. If push comes to shove, you could talk to the parents, but I fear that will go nowhere. If they're not getting her medication, I doubt the conversation will amount to anything. If you can, explain to your daughter what is wrong with the other little girl. I'd reinforce with your daughter that she needs to do what makes her comfortable and happy and that you can't please all of your friends all of the time. A friendship should be give and take - if your daughter ends up feeling like it's all give and she gets nothing in return, she shouldn't feel obligated to befriend this girl.
Best of luck dealing with this situation.

Have you spoken to the girl's parents? Have you researched the illness well enough to not stereotype the girl based on the media? Have you considered that she may not be medicated for a specific reason you do not know about? It's harsh to judge a little girl based on your errant assumptions. Before making a decision based on ignorance and lack of relationship, please give these questions some thought.

I think you should definitely talk to this girl's mom, but I think you should take a different approach. Perhaps she is not on medication because the doctor has decided it is not appropriate at this time. I would talk with the mom about how to handle situations when this girl acts like she is two and has tantrums. Do it as a loving concerned parent who has the child in mind. Express your concern for what is happening with these children when her daughter is getting upset and won't let your daughter have other friends. This poor girl probably has no friends because the word has gotten out about her diagnosis and lack of medication, and parents are panicking because of the fear of the unknown.

The mother of this girl is probably going through a lot and so is her child. Don't be afraid to ask questions and see how you can be supportive.

I have a daughter with Down Syndrome. Some kids are wonderful and treat my daughter with respect and love. Others are downright mean. I would rather have people ask me questions, care enough to ask me questions than to have them decide on their own what the situation is or who my child is. My child has intellectual delays, but she is a comedian. She loves to make you laugh. She has the same desires as other kids, to love and be loved. She knows when people are being mean and trying to get rid of her. She just wants to be like everyone else. If God doesn't make mistakes, then my daughter is exactly how God intended her to be.

You say that your daughter has a lot of friends and is the type of girl who is caring and nice to everyone. Isn't that what you want her to be?

MY Suggestion is find out all the Info you can about the diagnosis, talk to the parents and see how they will be handling her "episodes". I know that they have a children's book about biopolar disease in regards to a mother. This will be helpful for your child to understand why this girl is acting this way. If this is a friend she really cares about, let her be friends and set guidleines with your child and the other, also let the parents know how you paln to have your child act to her outbursts. If your child is okay with all of this.

Hi C.,
I agree this IS a difficult spot to be in, but I commend you for wanting to handle things in a careful way so as not to make the other little girl feel bad. As the mother of 2 children with BP and having 2 possibly 3 in-laws with it, I have seen plenty of how BP both treated and untreated can affect people. My first question is do you know if this little girl is not being treated because the parents won't allow it or has she just not begun treatment yet? Is she in therapy? Both things in my experience opinion are crucial for the benefit of the BP child and those in their lives. I never wanted my child medicated until I saw how much better it helped her to be. Not the choice for everyone,but for our family it was the right one. What is your interaction with the mother like? Are you friendly? If so I would ask out of curiosity if the dr's have suggested treatment of any kind and are they going to try it. Mention that you've heard from other parents that their kids felt alot better when they could keep their moods calmer and they had an easier time with friends, also that it was less stress for the family. There are books out there for parents, siblings and kids who have BP. We've been dealing with this for a few years and I'd be happy to email you privately if you want to discuss it. As a parent of BP kids, I appreciate that you are not just assuming this is a bad kid. BP kids have many wonderful qualities and are very bright children. They cannot control what is happening inside their brain; if they could, they would. I hope things work out for you. And in the process, this may be a helpful lesson for your own daughter about disabilities which BP is. It will probably make her a more understanding and more caring friend in the future than she already is. There is a book out there now written by two sisters who each have a daughter with an emotional/mental disaiblity; one has BP. The book is "Shut About Your Perfect Kid" which is helpful and insightful for parents of imperfect kids,but also an insight for parents of perfect kids; all written with humor. They've got a website that you may find helpful: www.shutupabout.com and if nothing else it may give you some chuckles. Take care.

Hi,
I just came across your post and I can't help but respond. A few things crossed my mind while reading it.
It is obvious that you want to protect your daughter. I know how strongly this feeling beats in our hearts as parents, but I also know that it is not always possible to pick and choose our children's friends or to be there constantly to protect them.
At age 11 girls are very moody, emotional, dramatic and jealous, this is the begining of puberty and emotions are rampant. So it is hard to tell how much of this behavior is coming from your daughters friends illness and how much is just normal childhood development.
I think that it is very, very important for you to talk with this little girls mother, but go informed, and go with an open mind. Bi-polar should not make or break a friendship. You said that you do not know much about the illness bi-polar aside from the crazy stuff that you see in the news. Personally I think that you should start with this - become educated, browse the internet and talk to a doctor, inform yourself of something other than the negative stigma attached to bi-polar BEFORE assuming anything more. This will allow you to understand a little bit more about the situation, also will allow you too see why some people choose medication and others do not. Placing a child on medication is a very pesonal decision, and there are many factors involved and without knowing the personal history of this child, you have no idea the reasons why this girl is not on meds, she could be allergic, she could have been on them and had a negative reaction, meds could be against her family's religion. Also I am assuming from your post that you have not spoken to the little girls parents yet, so what you are hearing is all hear-say, you do not have the facts. It is not fair to judge another parents decision, especially without knowing all the facts. Would you feel the same negativity about a parent that has not immunized? Because this is something that you cannot see and it is also a personal decision.
I hope this all works out for you, but please remember that there are many people who have problems and illnesses in life and it is not going to be possible to shelter your daughter from all of them. What you need to do is to teach your daughter strong values, also to stand up for herself and what she believes in, to tell her friends when something is bothering her, and if she can do that she will be fine.

Hi C. P-
Allow me to introduce myself. My name is T., and I am new to Mamasource. I am also a mom but my child is now 26 years old. This is just my opinion. Have you ever thought about seeking information regarding this illness? It's just like alcoholism or narcotics. Once we become more educated about the disease, we become more empathetic towards the individual. Whenever something is unusual, or considered not normal the first thing we want to do is alienate it. That makes matters worse! Think about if the shoe was on the other foot. How would that make you feel? I came upon this when my son was diagnosed with dyslexia and ADHD at a young age. Once I put my way of thinking aside and learned to develop his way of thinking, I was more able to help him. We, (humans) are so used to doing things in a way that we consider to be normal, when something different comes along, we panick! Try and get as much understanding about bipolar disease so that your daughter will not only become educated about it but she will learn how not to harm herself as well. We will come upon this disease again at some point and time in our lives, so why not prepare now while we have the time. Bipolar disease can strike at any time! How about it? Give it some thought and see what happens. Good luck. Nice talking with you.