Follow up to Previous Post

We moved this year and my daughter (age 5) is in a whole new class where she is the new kid. She has had many interactions and multi-kid playdates that are just like this. Part of it is her fault too...she will get mad and refuse to go along with what the other kids are playing at times. She has been excluded many times...but then the very next day I see her playing happily with the same kids. I think they are just so young at this age and are learning all these social rules. Girls especially tend to do this exclusion thing and I remember the little girls doing this when my son was this age (At the time I was thankful I had a boy bc none of the boys in the class were doing this). My opinion is...this is completely normal for this age of girls/kids. (yes it is cruel) Why that is, I don't know. I have learned that one on one playdates go much better for my daughter right now!

i'm sorry, hon. it's always hard to see your kid get hurt, and those eyes full of tears. really no way to make that 'okay' for you or for her.
but you're reaching awfully hard. you are blaming little 6 year old 'strangers' for not having the empathy and sophisticated processing skills to evaluate your daughter and overlook her clearly aggravating behaviors. YOU may not have seen her being bossy or overbearing, but she got cut from the herd, didn't she? so SOMEthing caused it. and if she's habitually 'intense', it's a real stretch to think that she DIDN'T cause it, it was just a bunch of other girls deciding for no good reason to gang up on her.
this is a great example of why it's not a great thing for parents to micromanage kids' interactions the way modern parents do. no mom can see her child being treated this way and be okay with it. but if you can step back from the emotional involvement, this is actually necessary herd behavior. no one hit her, or called her names, or threw things at her. they did exactly what was within their comprehension and their ability- they chose to disassociate from her. and that's okay. kids should not be forced to interact with kids whom they dislike, and who have somehow made themselves objectionable. and this rough hazing is understandable to other kids. it's how they teach each other what behaviors won't be tolerated.
of course we should be working with our kids as well, both to encourage acceptable play attitudes and to discourage meanness. but you can't expect 6 year olds to react to your daughter as adults would, especially since all the while you're excusing your daughter's role in this. do you really have 'no idea why'?
really?
khairete
S.

I have read, and RE read your question (and responses).

I just do NOT remember my kiddo's interactions in this kind of detail at the ages of 6 and 4.

Maybe I was a 'remiss' mom...but I think some relationships need to just happen (or not)...and our kiddos will learn along the way.

I just cannot imagine the time (or effort) it must take to analyze a child's behavior to the extent you seem to...

Sorry IF I offend, but really?

I wish you and your kiddos the best!

Truly.

sorry - this is normal.

Your daughter is picking up on your hyer-sensitivity and playing off of it.

She needs to learn self-control and impulse control. It's NOT all about her. She has spent the night with her friend, so she had her all night and before the party. Now she expects her to be the only person to play with? Um. NO. You need to tell your daughter to relax, listen to what is going on around her and accept that it's NOT all about her.

And yes, it's called peer pressure - 5 and 6 year olds will exclude a child. This is how they are learning to get around socially and negotiate. Some kids cannot take the "in your face" like your daughter. I'm sorry if that sounds mean, but really, your daughter needs to learn self-control and it's not about her.

You're overthinking and overanalyzing this, and if you continue this level of overthinking all her interactions in such detail, she and you are in for a very rough ride for years to come.

As Diane B. pointed out: They are six. Your expectations for behavior -- both for your own child and the other kids -- is too high. The kids weren't ideal, for sure, but it seems you're feeling that they were plotting, "Let's exclude her!" They were not thinking at all. They're gravitating (without even realizing it) toward the kid they know, the host kid who is not just their school buddy but the one in charge of the fun at her own party. They weren't out to get your child; they were acting like six-year-olds. Yes, there are some kids that young who have more mature social skills and reach out to the one kid they don't already know, but that is pretty infrequent.

The host mom knew she had a mixed group where a couple of kids would not know the rest, and she could have done more directing of group activities and games that could include everyone. I would have matched the kids up for races or rides myself, frankly, if it seemed to me that the school friends were sticking together so one kid was left out. And it's the host kid's job -- prompted by a parent -- to BE a host to everyone. That takes teaching.

But I think a larger concern is your intense focus on every moment of the party and every one of your daughter's interactions. You do know that your child can pick up on your sensitivity about her interactions even if you don't say a word--right? She knows more about your opinion of her as controlling and "left out" than you might realize.

Had another kid been there instead of your daughter, and that kid was outside the circle of the school friends attending the party, that kid would have been the odd one out. Kids are not necessarily "mean" at this age naturally -- I disagree with the posts saying that -- but they are pack animals. That's why so many early-elementary parties are just for the classmates, or just for the cousins, or just for the neighborhood friends. In a few years it'll be easier to mix groups.

Your post says that she "hadn't exhibited any of that (controlling behavior) at the party" and you seem to feel that since she hadn't done that, she should have been included automatically. That's not how things work; she wasn't excluded FOR being controlling or bossy, she was excluded because the other kids didn't already know her. Not an excuse but an explanation. You're taking it personallly on your child's behalf but it wasn't personal; it wasn't because she was bossy (she wasn't) or because she's not likeable (she is) but because she wasn't known. Does that help you not take it so personally?

It's kind of telling that you can describe nearly every moment in such detail. Next time drop her off, or talk to your adult friends, and focus less on your daughter's every second with other kids. It was not a good time, she was hurt, and she will get over it -- unless you bring it up or want to over-talk it with her in an attempt to make her feel better. It will not be the last time she is disappointed and you and she need to work on realizing that.

Said as the mom of a seven year old boy who can, at times, be very insistent and very intense~ and said kindly~ do your best to let this go.

First, I see this exclusion with kids all the time in my son's school,even within the same class. I wouldn't say it's meanness inasmuch as it's kids who are exercising their opportunity to make choices-- and you know, as many have pointed out, they just *aren't* graceful with this.

(Think about how many adults you know who aren't always graceful about the choices they make.)

When my son complains about playing alone or exclusion, I remind him that he if wants company, he often will need to play what the other kids are playing. That if he's feeling lonely, look around for that other lonely kid and ask them what *they* want to do. Try to remember, too, that while we adults are polite creatures (well, *more* polite in any case), for a lot of kids, ASKING to play is the death knell of the social interaction. This is because a lot of kids this age are like toddlers--- give them a chance to say no and they will take it, just because they don't get a lot of choice or autonomy at this age. They naturally separate and exclude... at least, this is from what I have seen.

I'm telling you all of this because I've been the heartbroken mom too. But within that heartbreak was what Suz T alluded to-- the sad understanding that the 'herd' was trying to communicate something which I could not. Over time, I've stopped getting so emotionally involved on this and just given him lots of positive encouragement and pointed out who we know *does* enjoy him. We focus on the friends who do play well with him -- maybe they don't want to play all of the time, but part of the work of this age is learning how to share friends, how to be a friend and youngsters are still figuring out what that looks like.

The messages from the herd are so important for kids. Our son has some minor delays as well some deeper disorders we are addressing. My job as a mom is to make sure that, even as hard as it hurts to watch kids snub him when he wants to play *only* his game-- I have to make sure that, over time, my son is able to learn how to pick up on social cues and function as a part of a group of people. Which means I can't shield him from the little stuff. Of course, we deal with more serious situations (like when he was being physically hurt by another kid last year), overall, though, I know that his desire to be part of the group will be such a great tool in helping him to modify his own actions that I don't want to get in the way of that, no matter how hard it is to watch. And it IS getting better-- the more I back off, the more he learns. Truly, have faith-- your girl is still very young.

Pull back and re-group.
You're expecting 6 yr olds to act/behave more mature than they are or can be.
Keep things simple.
When they are 9 or 12 - it'll be a whole new ball game.
Right now, keep play situations to small groups.
If your heart breaks every time your daughter goes through stuff like this you're going to be an emotional wreck by the time she's a teen.
You are emotionally WAY too empathetic.
For her own good (and yours) - you need to disengage slightly.
Express the attitude that she's a trooper and can ride these things out - and she will.

OK--totally not going back to read the other post or the answers here, so forgive me if this is repeating.
From what I see here, I'm going to offer you some advice.
And it will be hard.
Really. Really. Hard.

Back off.

You daughter, no matter how "intense" or "controlling" or "leader-like" she may be HAS for to work this out for herself. WITH the other girls.

So let her do that. Let go a little.
It will be hard to watch.
Offer her advice about friendship.
Schedule get together a with her friends.
But STAY OUT of it.

Kids work out their pecking order.
If your daughter wants to be a leader? She'll eventually learn another way if interacting with others.

Good luck!

Kids are generally nice, of course the want to play but as soon as their thoughts don't matter, as soon as they realize a child is bossy they do not want to play with them anymore.

I am sure you can come up with all sorts of nice names for bossy but in the end your daughter is bossy. Add to that she goes to you to back up her bossiness this isn't going to get better until you stop sending the message to her that bossy is okay it is just the other kids that don't understand.

I'm wondering about one thing, after reading the responses. It seems from your question that not only did your daughters have a sleep over, but you also slept at the party host's house? And you attended the sleep over festivities (going out for Chick Fil A) and you attended the entire birthday party?

Is it possible that your daughter sensed your disappointment, your sincere hope that she would be included, your watchfulness and your constant presence? If your kids are not old enough to go to sleep overs and parties without you, perhaps you should consider waiting for a while? Maybe when your daughter comes to you in tears and gets your comforting hugs, sympathy and concern, it reinforces something in her - that she doesn't need to adjust her group behavior and that Mommy will hug her and talk about this over and over. With you at a sleep over and a party, watching her and the other girls, she didn't have to practice her "getting along" skills, she had you right there.

I do encourage you to tell her that it's good to learn when to stand up (when someone's being bullied) and when to go along (when everyone's lining up, just line up and let the person who's in charge direct the activity). And then let go. Give her the tools to function, and then let her. After school, ask about her grades, her homework, and not every detail about recess and who included her and who excluded her. At the next party, figure out how much she can reasonably handle and drop her off and pick her up. She'll take some cues from you; make sure your cues are helpful but not intrusive.

This is what girls do. It's hard mixing friends. It's like taking a neighbor to an office party. For your daughter, it was a learning experience.

I think this is normal. Not nice, but normal.

It's a shame the host mom didn't handle it better. At my kids parties, I always try to keep an eye on the dynamics to make sure no one is being left out. The birthday child is always too excited (and too young) to notice. So IMO, it's the the hosts mom 's job to make sure everyone is having fun, just as it's the party host's job to make sure no one is standing alone at a dinner party of adults.

This just sounds like normal kid dynamics to me, groups and partnerships forming and reforming. I remember this very well from my own childhood, and even though I was sometimes left out (or sometimes left other kids out) it wasn't traumatic or anything. Even if I was upset it didn't last long.
Don't overthink it. I'm sure your daughter has already moved on and forgotten about it.
Also keep in mind that a sleepover followed by a birthday party is a LONG playdate for a six year old, I wouldn't do that again until she's at least a few years older!

I would venture to say that since they didn't know her, that is one reason. They were in their little "clique" and cliques have a tendency to exclude people who aren't a part of it. You think 6 is too young for that? Think again...

Your daughter also was acting "desperate". This is another thing that kids take advantage of.

Human nature can be pretty mean...

Just a few thoughts:

They are 6. They don't do well at sleepovers because they get tired and overwhelmed.

They are 6. They don't have social skills and manners.

They are 6. They are more secure in their school relationships, and they don't know what to do with an "extra" kid they don't know well. So they exclude, rather than feel awkward.

It really wasn't up to you to intervene and ask them to include your daughter. That was the job of the "host" mom. Yes, everyone should have had a turn in the cart and so on but that was what the supervising hostess should have overseen.

Your daughter needs to work on her social skills and her bossiness. The other kids need to work on their acceptance. Sometimes kids get sad and feel left out. You have to try to teach her to deal with disappointment and not have your heart break over her issues. She has many years ahead of her when kids don't always do what they should. She needs to learn to vocabulary to advocate for herself without ticking people off by being overbearing. But they all need to learn skills.

But again, they are 6. You are expecting them to have high level social skills, and they don't.

Sounds like your daughter and party girl had a "pre-party" before the party. The others showed up and party girl had new playmates. This is natural. Something new and shiny.

This isn't blatant exclusion, its just how six year olds play. If they did exclude her its because they DIDN'T know her!! I think you are expecting way more social skills than an actual 6 year old has.

Take a deep breath. Tell your daughter that life isn't fair and this won't be the last time things don't go her way. I know that sounds hard, been there and have the t-shirt, but you need to let your daughter experience the world.

No matter what your daughter did she'd feel excluded, and 6 year old girls are mean-unless you set up rules like no one can be excluded, no secrets, etc. But someone always feels left out. It's normal.

I doubt it was a case of "exclusion" but more of a case of they know each other and don't know her. Your daughter could have very well thought she heard what the other girl said, but she may also be wrong in what she thought she heard. I think at a party situation, the adults should step in and make sure everyone is included. Your friend should have talked to her daughter about being sure to include your daughter. I think your bone is with your adult friend, not with 5 and 6 year olds!