EXTRA Bossy 8 Year Old

Sounds like my stepson who has pervasive ADHD. No one ever thinks he does b/c he is not hyper (which everyone assumes). He's not but he can't focus, does not understand personal space, assumes he has the right to know and see everything, assumes he is in control and has 0 self control. Just the other day I gave my husband 2 Valentine's Day cards - 1 was sweet and the other was racey in a funny kind of way. He got up in arms b/c my husband would not show him the racey card. It was a joke between husband and wife and not for his eyes (he's 15 so he would get it but still - it was private). He was so ticked over that. Hopefully she isn't that bad b/c his problems have leached over into all facets of his life making for a very miserable existence (he lives on punishment b/c of his grades, filthy room, bad hygiene, etc.). He also has very few friends b/c he is so bossy and doesn't understand why other kids might like or want to do something different than himself. He actually gets mad at people and writes them off if they don't like what he does. Playdates were nothing but a series of miseries. The kids almost always ended up being entertained by me b/c he wouldn't stop watching the movie HE wanted to see or I would have to insist he do something else then he would pout and be angry. You have my sympathy b/c NOTHING we have tried over the years has helped. I wish you better luck.

Yes, as someone else put it -- being very consistent with her is key. But you also might be talking about this so much with her -- meaniing to reinforce the lessons -- that it's actually ceasing to have much effect; in other words, she might be hearing your messages about respect, how she's the child and you're the adult, etc., that it is now "going in one ear and out the other" rather than taking root. If she already has the mind-set that she is basically a small adult and the equal of not only her peers but her parents and teachers, she may be tuning out anything you say that goes against that firm belief.

Also, you note that she has not hurt anyone and doesn't want to. But unfortunately her intentions won't matter if she takes another child by the shoulders (as you describe) and shakes her and that child decides she has been hurt; your daughter will end up in the principal's office or at home on suspension. The hands-on habit is the very first thing to deal with because it is very likely to end up with her in possibly serious trouble at school.

She sounds overall like a smart, affectionate kid and that is great. At this point, before she gets older, I would first go to the school counselor -- just you and your husband, not her -- and talk frankly about everything you've said here. I would emphasize to the counselor that you do not think there is any "condition" going on and there are no stresses or changes at home; this is a matter of her basic personality (which is basically loveable) that you want to work on sooner, not later. We're just talking short-term behavioral management here.

Ask the counselor for specific strategies and even short "scripts" to use at home with your child (i.e., when your daughter is acting like she is the adult, how you can deflect that, etc.). Ask for good books about child development and children who are strong-willed and/or defiant. This is why the counselor is there. Then see if the counselor will do a series of meetings with just her and your daughter to talk things through. Of course the counselor shouldn't tell her "Your mom and dad say you are bossy" etc.-- the counselor should know how best to handle these meetings with your daughter and should focus especially on her behavior toward classmates and teachers.

If the school counselor isn't great, or doesn't offer to counsel your daughter for a while to help with this, you might want to check into seeing a family counselor for a short time, one who specializes in younger kids.

A lot of her defiance and "I'm the adult" attitude is pretty normal for a smart older kid (is she the oldest child?) but if she's as lacking respect as you say, and you add in the lack of understanding about personal space -- I would go ahead and get a little help with this to turn things around and make your life with her pleasanter for both her and you, before she hits the "tween" years when her approach will be tougher to change.

One other thing: Give her things to be in charge of! She wants authority, so give her some of her very own whenever you can. Make her responsible for something around the house that matters to her (not just a regular chore but something bigger -- like she's the boss of the Easter dinner and gets to make out the shopping list and arrange the table etc. Surely there are better examples but I can't think of one....Ask the counselor!). Giving her some responsibility and praising her when she handles it could help her feel like she does not have to run everything else.

Post again and let us know what happens. You CAN all work through this.

P.S. Tying her hands behind her back? Someone suggested that. It would backfire and make her more defiant, not less. And she won't have anyone to tie her hands in the heat of the moment at school when she wants to reach out and grab another child's shoulders; she needs to learn self-control, and physically restraining her will not teach her anything about that. She will resent you for it and be even more sure that she, not you, is in the right. And if she mentions at school that her parents "tie her up" you will quickly get a visit from your local authorities. Please don't do it!

You could be describing my daughter. I swear. Very opinionated and tends to be bossy. Personal space issues. And I've always sworn that she is still not convinced that we are the parents and she is the child. She actually asked me one day why I get to be in charge and make the rules and not her! It was like reading an e-mail about my daughter!

The only difference is we're not seeing it as much at school. A little on the nosy and bossy side, but not bad. And the personal space thing has gotten much better. I can remember times she tried to talk to someone and would literally get so close in their face she was almost touching them. Not in a mean way, just not aware that it was not appropriate. And, yes, she's been this way from birth too.

I sure don't have all the answers. We still have struggles, but here are a few things I've learned (I hope this doesn't get too long):
- She may act like she wants to be the boss, but what she's looking for is someone to be strong enough to be the boss of her. Don't be afraid to be very firm. I thought at first this would crush her spirit (she's a live-life-to-the-fullest kind of kid), but, in fact, it has not. She's a very happy, confident kid. Do not tolerate the wrong behaviors. Yes, this will create some show-downs. It does in our house. Be specific. Don't talk a long time about it. She already knows what you're going to say. Just state exactly what she did wrong, give a consequence.
- We have a "traffic light" in our house with clothespins with the kids names on them (we have two kids). When she begins the undesirable behavior (ex. talking back or arguing with you instead of obeying what you said), her clip gets moved to yellow. This is her warning. Tell her specifically why she is on yellow. She can either change the behavior and get back on green or not, in which case she goes to red and receives a consequence (time out or whatever). Start on green every morning again.
- Again I'll say, don't have long conversations about the wrong behaviors. We've made this mistake often in our house. She knows what we're gonna say and just tunes out after a few words. Use other times (when she's not misbehaving) to reinforce right behavior and talk about the importance of thinking about others, etc.

There's probably a lot to say here. As I said, I don't have all the answers, but have met with at least some success. I'd be happy to talk more about it, if you're interested. You can personal message me if you think it would help to talk more. It might help us too!! :)
B.

This sounds a LOT like my son, except for the getting in people's faces. But the need to know every word of what other people are saying and to be in control all the time. His favorite thing to say to me is "You are not the boss of me." He's six! Sometimes I get drawn into arguing with him that I am in fact the boss of him. But then when I realize this is getting me nowhere, I try to calm us both down and explain to him why he needs to do whatever it is that I am asking him to do. I explain that it is my job to take good care of him and part of that is making sure he - brushes his teeth, gets enough sleep, gets to school on time - or whatever the current battle is. It seems to help if I can get him on board with the agenda. We also have a reward system, so I'll remind him of the next treat he wants to get (whatever he has been pestering for recently) and point out that while he may think I am not the boss of him, I am in charge of his treats, his television, and everything else in life that he enjoys. This sometimes works, though not always.

I can remember when I was a kid and hating to be treated as less of human being just because I was young, so I try not to belittle my children or boss them around. My son also has the extreme bossiness and my hope is that peer pressure will eventually cure him of this, if he wants to have any friends. I try to believe that these traits will eventually serve him well in life. Your daughter and my son will probably grow up to be leaders and innovators. If they can balance their bull-headedness with some civility. Remember they are still just kids and learning to be civilized people.

I agonized for years about what I was doing wrong as a parent to make him act this way, but I really didn't think it was me (or his father) and now I have proof in his little sister, who is nothing like this at all and is delightful to be around. Some kids just have this temperament. Hang in there!

Hi, M.:

What you have here is a child might be on the verge of a conduct disorder. She certainly is exhibiting bullying behavior.

Now how do you how her accountable for her behavior, that's the question?
Reasoning with her, explaining things to her, is not working. What you need to do is action.

Both you and your husband will need to team up and be consistent with training her to be a child and not an adult. Have you ever witnessed police officers when they deal with someone who has broken the law?

If not, observe them.

Sit down with the whole family and have a conference.
Everyone submits their ideas of what is respectful behavior.
Make a list. Include the things you have mentioned on this post that offends you about her behavior.

Next, ask everyone about the consequences for these behaviors.

Now, enforcing them. Ask the gathering what to do about enforcing the rules. Tell your daughter that she has a choice, to shape up or you will send her to a military school for at least a year. Start doing research to support your enforcement decision.

An experience I had at a discussion group. We were sitting in a circle. Someone comes in late, gets a chair from another table and pushes her way inbetween me and the fella sitting next to me. I said: "I'm not moving."
(She had done that before where I had to get up and move for her convenience.) So this time I was prepared for her. When I said I was not moving, she said: "I didn't ask you too." That demonstrated to me that she is a bully. The first time she did that, after the meeting, I mentioned that I felt bullied into moving. In her responses, I felt like she was attacking me.
Personally, I have been bullied all my life. It was put up and shut up growing up. Now I don't take disrespectful behavior. I hold people accountable for how they treat me. Thanks for seeking to find an answer to this problem. This probem is prevailing in our society today because of the wealth that families have that causes children to be spoiled. As you know when food is spoiled what happens? It makes one sick. Anyone who is spoiled makes others sick along with the spoiled one.

Good luck.
D.

My oldest in like that and he's 13 now. I let him know who's boss and if it takes spanking his butt that's what happens. I also tell him just because he is the oldest in no way does that make him incharge. That he and is 9 year old brother are equals and us his equals. He does not always like it but we set him straight. We find the one thing he loves that most if he does not stop and take it away as well. Do not let her make you the victim. She will walk all over you the rest of your life if you do.

Good luck and God Bless!

Another suggestion? (In addition to possible counseling, etc.). Sign her up for karate. Or tae kwan do. My guess is that it will be physically demanding and will get her to burn off some of this excess aggressive energy she seems to have. But it will also help teach her discipline. In most instances, the instructor will not tolerate any kind of insubordination and she will end up doing a lot of push-ups if she doesn't comply. She will be able to channel her behavior in a positive way and learn self-control and proper respect for others. It will NOT teach her to go around kicking everyone's butt, but instead it is only used for self-defense. And maybe she will also gain some self-confidence, enough to see that she does not have to be the boss of everyone.

My GD too can be very bossy - nothing like what you described though. I recall a parent-teacher conference when she was in 2nd grade. The teacher told me that my GD is very bossy and tries to tell the other students what to do. What was frustrating her the most is that the students would follow my GD's directions to the exclusion of the teacher's instructions!

I just had to keep telling her day in and day out that she is just like the other students - a student. She is not in charge. She is a student and she needs to follow the teacher's directions and not give directions herself, no matter how she feels about what the teacher wants her to do or whether or not she thinks she has a "better way" to do something. (I actually chuckled to myself when the teacher told me that the kids follow my GD's instructions instead of hers!)

So I don't know, just keep telling her that she is a student; she is not in charge of anything except her own behavior. Maybe make her write sentences like that to try to instill it in her.

As for the personal space and reaching out and touching people, the first thing that came to my mind was tying her hands behind her back as kind of an exercise so she learns to communicate with people without touching them. And I do mean at a time when you are working on personal space issues - not all the time. As an exercise.

Good luck!

My best friend's 9-year old daughter is just like this. I always joke that she wears the pants in the family.

I remember when she was 3 she completely freaked out when she realized we weren't equals and that I had the right to tell her what to do when she was under my care (I babysat every now and then). At that time I was 39. She really thought we were on the same level. It was kind of funny until the massive meltdown she had. She still has huge tantrums if she doesn't get her way or isn't the center of attention.

I don't have much advice to give, as they still struggle with it. However, I have observed that they can be quite inconsistent in what they say and how they act with her. The Dad in particular might say one thing, then always caves in and lets her have her way. Even if she gets aggressive with him, which she occasionally does, he will blow up but then will feel guilty about the blow-up and "make it up" to her by giving her some kind of treat. From my view, it just seems to reinforce the behavior.

I don't think this is your situation from your description, but just double-check that your discipline method is always consistent.

Best of luck

Sounds like she is super aggressive. Even if her intention is not to injure, she needs to know she can't shake people or get in their face to make her point. She needs to know she is a CHILD. She's not an equal to adult authority figures.

If she keeps up the aggression, count on her getting into fist fights as a teen. I knew a girl who was in your face, I'm never wrong, I'm above my peers girl. She got in the wrong girls face in 8th grade and got her butt handed to her.