Disciplining Toddler Around Older Siblings Schedule

Unless the weather is bad just grab he shoes take him by the hand and strap him in thehis seat with the shoes where he can put them on he wins and you win dont let him out of the car until his shoes are on he will leaarn eventually the do grow up as you know good luck A. raised 4 and now have 7 grandchildren A. no hills

I have found a lot of times if you give children options then they will do what you want. I would suggest you get two or three pairs of shoes out. Ask him to chose the one he wants to wear. Then put those shoes on him. I hope this helps.

Refusing to cooperate when you have no time - pick the child up, plop him in the car seat. He doesn't have shoes - he can't go into the school. He doesn't have his jacket, he'll shiver for a few minutes. He wants such and such toy - sorry pal - you blew it. Natural consequences.

If he's throwing a tantrum and you need to get out the door - pick him up and go. Let him scream in the car. Whatever. Just ignore him. Don't talk to him while you are getting him in the car. Don't say one word to him until he is calm.

YMMV
LBC

If the shoes are the only issue, then go without. It won't hurt him one bit, and if his feet are cold, he might want to put them on next time.

If cooperation is the issue, then quit asking him to cooperate in the morning and adjust the schedule. Get up a little earlier, and set him up for success. I have no idea how you would do that, but you can figure it out based on his needs and routine. Tell him what to do, one tiny step at a time. Stand up, lift your foot, hold the shoe...you get the idea. Make sure you find a way for him to be a success, because the more successful he is, the more successful he is, and so on.

Last, quit making idle threats, he called your bluff and won. Do what you say you will and only say things you intend to do.

M.

A., this is the kind of situation that drives me nuts b/c you are right - the books don't tell you what to do when there is ZERO time for a tantrum, much less time out! i have only one child but mine seems to choose these times to throw fits also. i have two suggestions, which you may have tried but i'll share anyway. btw, i totally feel for you having three - i can't imagine how moms do it! so one, it's your three year old throwing the fits, right? i assume he's not the one going to school in this scenario. i would have him walk out the door, shoes or not. he may be upset (my son threw the biggest fit i had ever seen when i suggested he could go without shoes, if he couldn't put them on), in which case he might put them on quicker next time, or he may just walk out the door happy to not have shoes. it might be one of those battles you don't have to fight. does he really need shoes to ride in the car and drop the kids off with you? it's not 20 below anymore...so that's just one thought.

my other thought will probably get me some "comments", but i truly believe there are situations when timeouts don't work and you have to up the ante. #1 being when they have had four timeouts in a row for refusing to do the same thing, #2 being when you honest-to-goodness just don't have TIME. i give my son plenty of warning, i tell him we don't have time for time out so it will be a swat. 99% of the time the issue is over right then. he really doesn't want a time out, but he REALLY doesn't want a swat (one, not in anger, on the bum). it works for me.

i truly believe that when kiddos up the ante with misbehaving, you have to up the ante with discipline, and they have to know you will. it might be easier said than done but hope this helps. good luck!

I also have a particularly willful 3 year old boy. (Turning 4 soon!!) We have found that a lot of the willfulness comes from a need to feel in control of the situation. As many of the other responses have indicated, natural consequences work pretty well. For most situations I try to give him a choice (these shoes or these shoes). If he refuses, he goes without shoes. If that means he can't play because he didn't get his shoes on, so be it, it was his choice and I remind him of that. It is not perfect, but the choice often circumvents the tantrum and following through with the consequence of the choice is its own learning moment. Sometimes, to my frustration, he is happy with what I consider to be a poor choice, but often when he makes a poor choice, he is not happy with the choice, and yes, we have to deal with it. By then, usually I have gotten through my time issue (getting big sis to school, dr. whatever) and can find a moment to teach...

Good Luck to you I am sure you are doing great!

Then change the situation. Don't ask him to put his shoes on. Put them on, scoop him up and plop him in the car. Dont' ask for situations where you know that he will be willful or defiant. Assert your authority as a parent by not offering him choices or options. Take the extra minute to put the shoes on yourself or whatever else it is that you think he is going to give you a hard time about.

I have two kids that will soon be 5 and 6, so we have had very similar scenarios. The things I have listed below we started when my kids were 3 and 4.

One thing that worked for me was creating a school morning routine. I broke down the morning by tasks, assigned times and posted it on the fridge. I stick to it and are we are out the door on time and usually without any difficulty. I build in buffers to help on days that we need a little extra time. For example, we live 6 minutes away from the school, but we allow 15 minutes to get there so we can walk through the lot and hang up coats and still be on time. We aren't rushed and stressed. I also use a timer to help us keep on track. If the kids have 20 minutes to eat breakfast, I set the timer. When it goes off breakfast is over and I start removing plates from the table. It is also helpful to keep the kids on task in the bathroom.

I told my kids that they we work together as a family to get things done. In the morning their chores revolve around getting ready for school (potty, dressing, getting out backpacks, coats, putting on shoes, etc) . It takes reminders (they don't do it automatically).

Sometimes I ask my son(the oldest) to help my daughter (the youngest) put on shoes/ coat and backpack.

I also incoporated the morning routine into our reward system. We put coins in personalized jars and when you have a certain number of coins you can have some privilege time (tv, computer, a video, etc). I used to let them pick a small prize from a stash I have but that eventually became less effective and I was looking for a way to regulate privilege time and this seemed a good fit. So if the kids complete their morning chores, they get a coin. If they don't complete their morning chores, they get a coin taken out of their jars.

Best wishes to you!

I won't tell you we don't have any problems at all, but our mornings roll much more smoothly than ever.

My three year old tries this, too. I just pick him up and tell him that it's ok, he just won't get out of the van and will have to be carried. He HATES that. So we do it for that trip and then the next one he is sure to put on shoes.
I try to stick with things that I can actually do. Like at the grocery store, if he doesn't stay with me, then he rides in the cart for the rest of the trip. At the library, if he runs, yells or pulls books off shelves we stop what we are doing and leave.
Good luck!

Hi Angie, i am totally with you on the "time out" time out is not discipline. The shoes in this situation is not the issue, your child is trying to manipulate not getting out the door, so you take your son without shoes. A friend of mine had a simular problem but her son was always late for school cause he would not get up and get dressed when told too, so she told her son tomorrow we are leaving at 7:30, if you are not up and dressed you will go in your pajamas, he didn't believe her, well the next morning he went to school in pajamas, after that he got up and got dressed on time. J.

Updated

Hi Angie, i am totally with you on the "time out" time out is not discipline. The shoes in this situation is not the issue, your child is trying to manipulate not getting out the door, so you take your son without shoes. A friend of mine had a simular problem but her son was always late for school cause he would not get up and get dressed when told too, so she told her son tomorrow we are leaving at 7:30, if you are not up and dressed you will go in your pajamas, he didn't believe her, well the next morning he went to school in pajamas, after that he got up and got dressed on time. J.

I would apply logical or natural consequences. Google this. Or you can buy the "Positive Discipline book" or "Raising Respectful Kids in a Rude World"....and I think the Love & Logic method explains this too.

When my daughter (just turned 4 in March) dilly-dalys in the morning or is uncooperative, she misses her breakfast. Period. And no, i did not withhold breakfast from her; she put it upon herself to be so late that we had no time to give her breakfast. I tell her that so the responsibility falls on her. I don't have this late issue with my daughter anymore. This was months ago when we had to deal with getting her out of the house on time, also.

Sit down BEFOREHAND and explain possible outcomes, consequences that may occur if he doesn't make good choices (get him to understand as best as you can what could possibly happen as a result of him not obeying or listening). And it will be in his control, not yours. The missing breakfast thing is what you'd call Natural Consequences. Hunger will teach him. Don't expect things to just work out overnight, you have to give it a couple of times and he'll get that he has the control to make his day pleasant or not. Just simply respond with...:Oh well, that's too bad. Better luck tomorrow. Hopefully, you will try harder and not have to miss your breakfast.." Be empathetic, but not weak...where you don't follow through. You're like me, I don't make empty threats. But I don't recommend any kind of "threats" either...like.."you do this, or you'll get this...." Train him to do things because it's the right thing to do...not for any reward or avoid punishment.. Empower him to know that he has the ability to make the right choices. It's in his hands.

No more forcing, lecturing, punishing. I'm not saying that there won't be time when TIME OUT is needed; of course there will...depending on the situation. But the goal FOR THE MOST PART is to have your child do things out of his own accord and not because mommy's nagging or upset. You can use logical and natural consequences with pretty much any issues. Just make sure to establish (in advance) an understanding about certain expectations and possible outcomes if not met. So that you can go back and say to him, "remember how we talked about...what could happen if..."

And like you said, just follow through. And leave the emotions out of it. Save it for the praises when he does something great...and give him credit for the positive outcomes because he did it ALL BY HIMSELF. :) Empower him by letting him know that he has the power/control to make the right decisions and thus, creating his own positive outcomes.

Do you follow through with the discipline once you get home after dropping the kids off at school? You say you do not make empty threats so you probably shouldn’t say you will leave without him and then go back to get him seconds later. Not that I'm saying leave him at home, but give him a consequence you can actually follow through with =-)

When my son was younger about age 2 ½ he started tantrums in the morning as I was getting his sister to school, I told him that if he didn't do as he was told, he would not get to go to his activity that morning. First time I had to put him in the car with his PJs crying and we went straight home after dropping my daughter off. I was very upset which that in itself made him quiet down. Also, he did not get to go to the Mommy & me class which he absolutely loved after dropping his sister off.

Next morning, he started again and I told him very sternly, if he did not do as he was told, he would not get to do his activity once again after dropping his sister off. That day we were meeting a group at the park for a breakfast picnic. I reminded him about the day before, how he had to come straight back home and stay in time out instead of going to his class. I told him he would not get to go to the park for our breakfast picnic with friends and that he would be in time out in his room until I was done being upset about his naughty behavior.

He quickly got ready without further incident. Well, never had much of an issue after that. I followed through with his punishment AFTER dropping his sister off that first time. He KNOWS I will do it again and I know he doesn’t want to miss out on activities. Even when we had nothing going on in the morning he was (and is still) great. I was consistent which is key. Maybe that will work for you? I like LisaT's response as well. We have a similar routine.
Best of luck!

Ditto Ladybug C.

Start getting ready earlier. So there is more than just 10 minutes to get to school.
The older one's can be self-directed... and help.
For the 3 year old.... have extra shoes in the car and a pair of extra clothes.
If he is still in his PJ's and won't change/get ready then too bad. Take him to school that way. Believe me, when my daughter was in Preschool, LOTS of kids would end up at school, that way. For the same reason.
You pick him up, even if screaming, and plop him in the car, strap him in his car seat. Don't negotiate. Don't talk it out. Just tell him, "time to go, in the car... now." And tell All the other kids to get in the car too.
Don't give in to him. You cannot always reason with a 3 year old. BUT you need to start waking up and getting ready earlier. And the night before, have all the needed gear IN the car already, and whatever else is needed. AND the night before, have all their lunches made already too. It is about PREPPING the night before hand. That really helps.
And for you, wake up earlier than the kids so you can get ready, before all the madness wakes up. That is what I do.

All the best,
Susan

we also have a very willful child who is EXTREMELY intelligent. threats, intimidation and putting the fear of god into her didn't work. reason and time does. i know you have two other children and time isn't on your side while trying to get 4 people out of the house : )

first of all, tantrums are NOT tolerated. PERIOD. when she "loses" it - we really have to keep calm and tell her to breathe - just take a breath and give her a hug to calm down and get her to articulate what she is feeling.

secondly, we try not to let her get to the tantrum. our daughter didn't transition well from one thing to another at first. we learned that she needed A LOT of information ahead of time for example: "in twenty minutes we are leaving for the store, so you have 10 minutes to keep playing and then i am going to come back and we are going to get your shoes on and leave." somehow giving her the information helps her feel like she has control-which is what the tantrum is about-not being in control of herself or the situation and not having the best emotional tools to process the moment to make a transition. also it's about attention, so we try to give her lots of love and attention so that when it's time to go somewhere or do something she doesn't feel the need to hold our event "hostage" because she is starved for attention.

thirdly, giving compliments when her behavior is great and talking about what is good behavior, pointing out poor behavior in others.

lastly, modeling the behavior and calm we want our child to have inside our home meaning my husband and i always say thank you to each other, loving towards one another, etc.

there is no instant fix. we saw these behaviors developing in her around age 2 and they were far more severe than what we observed in other children and decided to really focus on this. now she is 4 and is doing MUCH better, some of it is that she is getting older but she can still fly into rage and we have better coping skills to deal with outburst and vocabulary that we ALL share to shorten the tantrum. i hope this helps. be well.

If my willful son doesn't want to put his shoes on, he just goes in the car without them. I take them along. When we get there - "Okay, let's go. Oh-hey.... let's get your shoes on." - worked every time for me.

Also, could you have your other two help? Maybe have a contest to see who can put their shoes on by themselves. Or do a quick follow the leader or other game. Have one take turn being "morning coach" and walk the others through the routine. (take turns) Have a chart and each child move things from the To Do side to the Done side.

As far as willful children, I just LOVED "Raising Your Spirited Child" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. She doesn't have you try to "win" over your willful guy but rather understand him and learn where he's coming from. I didn't want to break my son's natural spirit, but did need him to be a team player. This book (and also audio book) was really helpful.

It's hard to reason with a 3 year old. He's the youngest and in the morning when the other 2 are off to school the attention is in them and he's putting it back on him. He's very happy to get attention from you good or bad. You have to pick your battles. If you are running late and he won't put on shoes, pick him up and carry him to the car without shoes. Take the shoes with you if you have to go somewhere with him after you drop the other kids off. If you don't fight with him about it, he'll stop doing it. He's doing it to get a reaction. You can try using a positive behavior chart with him where he gets a sticker each day that he cooperates with you. After a certain number of stickers he gets a special treat or present. We used this method to reinforce potty training.

My husband fights with my son all the time about putting on a jacket. It creates major crying and screaming, usually when we're running late. I tell him to let him go out without a jacket. He's old enough to know if he is cold or not and if he's cold he'll put his jacket on. We live in Los Angeles, not Alaska - nothing will happen if he goes out without a jacket to walk to the car.

Good luck. Hope this helps!

Being the youngest, your three year old may feel as if he has no say in his own life. With "willful"children, I find that giving them limited choices sometimes helps: ex: "Would you like to put your shoes on in your room or in the living room?" "Would you like to pick the red shoes or the blue ones today?" He is SMART, he KNOWS you are not going to leave him and he also knows that you are in a hurry, and he knows how to manipulate you just like all little ones do!

This is really normal behavior, so don't worry! Sometimes discipline by natural consequences works well too. For example, on a non school day, do your normal routine as if you are getting ready for school, when #3 balks at putting on his shoes, just say, "OK. But that means you won't be able to walk outside." Then drive to a park and let the older ones out to play. When #3 wants to get out of his car seat, you can tell him, "No, you have no shoes. This is what happens when you do not cooperate, etc..."

L.

I'm no big fan of spanking, but it has its place. If you've avoided it in the past just know this: The studies done on spanking don't isolate appropriate swatting on the bottom with other forms of hitting. The studies didn't differentiate between swats on the bottom with hitting the face, punching with a closed fist, and hitting with objects. In other words, there is no research out there on appropriate spanking. So forget what the studies say. Go with your gut. I was spanked gently and don't feel it caused me any damage what so ever. I keep it in my back pocket and find that there are times and places where it needs to be used. Sound like your rushed morning routine might be one of those times.

When my daughter or step daughter refuse to put shoes on, etc, when we're pressed for time I put them on myself and keep going out the door. I don't care if either one of them "want" their shoes at that point. I'm not trying to be mean but if you don't have time for a tantrum, put the item on the kid yourself. I don't have time for timeouts either unless we're at home.
Don't adjust your discipline according to your older kids. They had to have it when they were younger they can keep quiet when the little one needs it. Tell them they have to help! If you can't do something and they're ready, there is no reason they cannot help you out, especially the seven year old.

" I am not a parent who makes empty threats I consider myself pretty tough."

Perhaps this is what you think, however, I would guess your other two sons told themselves a different story based on their experience.

I agree with S.C., Jane Nelson's book "Positive Discipline" will surely help.

Good luck,
Wendy

Hello, I had this problem with my third child. It continued until she was in 5th or 6th grade. I worked at the school she attended. We walked to school. One day, I was fed up and told her (as usual) when I was leaving. I also told her that when I did leave, she would be leaving with me as she was (even if she was in her pajamas, with her hair not combed and her teeth not brushed). At the scheduled time, I left. She did not come out the door with me. I got about halfway down the block and heard her coming. I turned to see her fully dressed and hair combed. She, of course, stopped running and started to walk slow. I turned back to continue walking. This went on until she caught up and we proceeded to school. She was never late again when I had to be to work. However, now she is grown and has two children. We all laugh about how she runs on "her time". My youngest sister was the same way. One time when she spent the night, I told her when I was going to leave to go somewhere. I had my then two children ready and went to the car. She came flying out and got into the car. She said, "You were going to leave me, weren't you!" I reminded her that I had warned her when I was leaving and that she should have been ready. I also passed this onto my father who had been late to work having to drop this sister off at school and having her not be ready. One day he left without her and she had to walk to school. She got ready on time after that. Warn him ahead of time, but be prepared to take your son out of the house half dressed if you should try this.
Good luck with your precious family.
K. K.

time to get creative. when my kid doesn't want to put on her shoes we head out w/o and when we get somewhere she doesn't get to get out of the car or has to ride in the cart/stroller. I will not allow her to go barefoot. So she learns she needs to do it. If we leave without something (that I prepare and set up for her to bring) she does with out. I will grab shoes if it is a must that we will need them later but she has to deal with it otherwise. her obedience leads to more opportunities and her disobedience limits her activities. Not as punishment but just naturally. Good luck!

Three year olds can be picked up and placed in car seats. THey also go drop off big brother in pj's. That will calm your mornings a bit. When you come home get him dressed and have breakfast. Actions speak louder than words.
Also try positives like ice cream after dinner or chocolate milk for lunch. If he behaves in the mornign then he gets chocolate milk for lunch or whatever floats his boat, maybe it's strawvberries.
In the winter if you are still having issues and it is cold outside put him out in his jammies on the back porch. This works really well if you live in a place that gets snow.