Discipline and Whinning Help!

Strip her of everything....This is a battle of the wills. She has to be reminded that mommy and daddy are the head of the house and she will not win these battles. If you have to take all her toys and no play-dates or anything and she will earn them back when she follows the rules. Come down hard with kicking and disrespect. She is testing you and she is probably smarter than you even know!!! I had similar problems but know I do not bakc down...I will wait all day for my kids to do what I ask of them...and then all of a sudden they realized the had to do it!!! But remember she is only 4 and she will be 4!!!

Take it all away from her. Whatever she chooses not to pick up, put it in a garbage bag. Whether you actually throw it away or not, that's up to you. I have done this with both of mine and they learned really fast how to treat their stuff with respect. I never actually threw it all away. Once they started showing me that they are capable of taking care of their things (yes, including clothes- they both have hampers in their rooms) they start earning things back... One at a time.

Also... When she starts whining... Ignore it and when she asks why you're not answering, tell her that you don't respond to whining.

My daughter is 7 and my son is 2. My daughter even helps me with putting her own laundry away now.

Yes, you can be tougher and tougher. I don't recommend that though. Try putting yourself into her place. If you didn't want to do something, would your husband take away your things?

Imagine that you had a room you didn't want to clean up. Are you overwhelmed? Is there too much in there? Then put things out of reach. Don't have her able to get things out. Really. You can have a 'one thing back before another comes out' rule.

Maybe she would like to be the overseer and tell you where things go. Yes, you're doing it, but as a first step, she is thinking about what's out of place and where it goes. We do that with my son and eventually he'll spontaneously start to do something and act like he's done it that way all his life. Four is young to clean up an entire room. It's okay if she's not there yet.

As far as the whining, I would really try to find out why she is crying and whining. Take the time & make guesses, be calm and really want to know. Maybe there's something there that you would rather know about. That being said, sometimes I swear my son whines because he likes to hear the sound his voice makes. In that case, a simple "do over" or "try again" or even me restating it in a good way does the trick. However, be patient and really try to see what is her issue. It is setting a great dynamic for her to come to you with her problems. One day the problems will be important and then she will be used to you being an adviser and helper.

I learned a great technique from my son's teacher. She will say something, ask what it is, ask what it isn't and then re-ask what it is. This repeats & gets the message across to this age group. For example. "We're going to the store. Are we going to buy any toys?" (nooooo) What are we NOT going to buy? (toys) Will we buy some dolls? (nooooo) Will we buy some Power Rangers? (noooo) What are we going to buy? (food)" You can put some funny things in there, like old socks and stuff as well.

When you're going through this, take the time to work through the protests here and almost always they won't come up in the store. You may need to repeat the beginning question, but she *should* catch on. Otherwise, time your store trips when someone else can watch her as much as possible for awhile & avoid the battle.

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The reason this is happening is because you have ceded authority to a four year old. She whines and cries because it get her what she wants. There are no real consequences for her bad behavior. Stop "asking" her to clean up her room, but make sure what you are asking her to do is age and skill appropriate. She does not need to see a therapist, she needs a strong, decisive guiding hand. She does not see you as decisive. I highly recommend "Scream-Free Parenting" by Hal Runkel and anything by John Rosemond. I got my daughter to stop whining by explaining to her that I didn't understand the foreign language "whine". Every time she said something in a whiny voice I just explained I didn't understand and could she repeat it. This went on until she used the appropriate tone. It works.

children of this age are still experiencing their independence. Give her choices. Say: You have a choice 1) clean your room and I will help you and we will go and do_____ or 2) don't clean your room and you can sit in a dirty room for one hour and think about the other choice while I get a babysitter and go to _____ myself. She has a choice. Then make a schedule with little stick figures on a card so she starts seeing a "schedule" and have "clean the room" as one of the scheduled cards. Kids like choices and they like structure at this age. have your child take the little schedule cards which can be 1) brushing teeth 2) eating 3) errands 4) reading a book 5) cleaning up toys 6) going to the park 7) bathtime 8) bedtime. This way she can anticipate the schedule. If you want more suggestions...I just wrote a book, My Baby Compass, Birth to Two...and I am in the process of writing Two to Four...to help parents understand development and the communication process. Hope this helps K. Thorson Gruhn MA CCC-SLP

Be encouraged and do not give up! You must first look your child in the eye and tell her it is never OK to hit you are anyone else. As far as the tantrums walk away when she is exhibiting that behavior. You are giving her an audience which is what she wants. I went through the dirty room experience with my now 17 year old daughter. My daughter was prompted to change by a friend whom planned to spend the weekend with her. The friend took one look at her room and told her I will not spend the night with you while your room is in this condition. If this doesn't work you have other options, take away privileges if that doesn't work you may want to schedule and appointment for family counseling.

It looks like you've gotten some great answers in regards to the discipline. I'd like to offer some advice on the room cleaning. I'd like to recommend www.flylady.net. I can't get her website to come up right now or I'd provide you with a specific link. But she talks about how telling a child to clean a room can be overwhelming, to make a chart of specific tasks to do in her room and check them off, and she uses a timer set to 15 minutes a lot - a race to see what you can get done in that amount of time. There is also her sister site www.housefairy.org that makes cleaning fun for your kids. You leaves notes, prizes, and fairy dust from the house fairy to surprise them.

I have a almost 6 yr old the same way. I can say that she is not that way most of the time. But when she is it is just as you said. It is difficult I know with mine. What I do know is she hasn't grown out of it.. (that worries me) And I do not give into her tantrums or whines.. (because that reinforces the behavior) It hasn't worked. So my behaviorist Dr. said when she does that to just not say a word, pick them up and take them out of the store right away and take them home or somewhere ( not fun). That way you don't get into a battle of trying to explain something to someone that just isn't going to be able to listen at the moment or in a frustrating situation of you trying console or deal with it in public. I explain it, offer an alternative and if she continues than I do try and ignore it, if I can and sometimes that works. I also, I say: can you ask a little nicer? And if none of that works- I stop everything and we leave!. Usually after she is done with her fit - she apologizes and then I can explain it to her b/c she is able to listen. ( The Dr. said you can't talk to a pot of boiling water... I agree... when she is like that she just isn't going to hear any explanation or other way - she just wants what she wants now.) oops! the clean room part, well, I just have to do rewards if she cleans her room 2 days gets a reward then I move it to 5 days etc. I extend it longer then it becomes a habit... I also sing a song clean up, clean up everybody has to clean up... then I say now isn't it nice to have our room clean..We do high 5 and say TEAM WORK! Every child is different and every parent knows their child better than anyone else. this is just what I do...

My youngest daughter can be like that. I always tell her she needs to clean up first before watching TV, going to friend's house, or whatever fun activity she really, really wants to do. That helps to motivate her tremendously. Earlier in the day is best. Last thing before bed, no good. Also, "clean up your room" is a big and overwhelming job for many young kids. Pick one thing at a time, such as "put away your little pet shop toys before snack" That is a smaller, easier to get her mind around task. Keep working on it little chunks at a time. If you are really anxious to get a large messy room all back in order, work with her. I say, OK, pick one job in here you will do, and one you want Mom to help you with. We both do our little jobs, and then it is my turn to pick a job, and pick one for her to do. Eventually, clothes get in the basket, books and toys get put away, and everyone stress level decreases. Good luck!

She sounds just like me when I was little (and I'm 53)! Look up some stuff on temperaments. She sounds like a Sanguine/Choleric (and I'll bet anything that you're neither). She needs a firm hand, but she also needs for 'work' to be FUN (and done together with someone). I only learned in the last 5-10 years that I ONLY work well with an audience (or at least someone alongside to talk to). Say to her, "LET'S clean your room!" vs, "Go clean your room". You put something away while you tell her where to put something else and see if it doesn't go much better! I grew up being told that I was lazy, when I can actually work with the best of them (if someone is alongside!!)

Give it a go, and I suggest reading some materials by Kevin Leman. He's fantastic!

I think she's been getting her way for a very long time! You need to provide food, clothing, and a bed. Everything beyond that is a privilege. You have to unteach her alot of behaviors that have always worked for her, and that's the hard part, so be prepared for her to make things tough for a few days. Start a sticker chart with her daily chores-- making her bed, brushing her teeth, putting toys away, getting herself dressed, trying a new food, anything you can think of. Explain that everything she completes will earn a sticker, and X stickers will get her something special. Work out the "special" things with her so she can be excited about getting them. Then, praise, praise, praise!!! Oh, My Gosh! Look at you with your clothes on already! You get a sticker! I'm SO proud of you! WOW! You made your bed already! You get ANOTHER sticker! What a big girl you are!! Kids are kind of like puppies---they WANT to please us, we just have to show them how to behave. By going overboard with praising good behavior and minimizing bad behavior (stepping over them and walking away from a tantrum), you will see a dramatic change in her in a short time. PS. Hitting and kicking should be addressed by 4 minutes with her face in a corner, followed by an apology from her, and a hug and kiss. Everytime! Some days she may spend more time in the corner than out, which is when it will start to sink in that she's getting nothing out of her bad behavior. This is not hers to correct, it's yours. The only children who consistently throw tantrums are the kids who get what they want eventually. The others give it up.

I don't have a great answer, but we have a 4 year old daughter and it sounds like she has a lot of similarities to your daughter. Somethings we have tried include, making it a game or race (I can get these put away quicker than you can put away those) or telling her it is fine that she doesn't pick up her things - I will and then I will find a child who does want to take care of things and give it away -usually this creates more whines in the short term but gets attention and motivates her to do it. We have just started telling her that there will be a black hole and that if she doesn't pick up her things when I ask her to, I won't continuously ask but her things may go in the black hole and she will not see them again until I feel she is ready to take care of things. Luckily, I have not had to resort to that yet but know of a parent that did use the black hole with at least some success.

Good luck and let me know any strategies that you find helpful.

S. G

I can tell you how I remedied the tantrums in the stores.
My daughter and niece used to fight with each other and have their little fits in the store. I would always tell them if they didn't stop I was going to take them home and go back alone. Well... one day I had enough and did just that. No more tantrums in the stores. As for the "gimmies"... I gave my daughter allowance and she had to have enough money to purchase what she wanted herself. She's 13 now and still buys what she wants with her money... not mine. I do purchase certain things for her but her "wanted" items are her responsibility. When the dreaded designer brand clothes subject came up I told her I wasn't paying $50 for a pair of pants when I could get a pair for $20. So she buys the name brands herself. It has really taught her the value of money and how to save and budget for items she wants.

Not sure how we managed it but the clean room thing came pretty natural. She has always kept her room pretty clean. I do make her bed in the morning when we get up but she keeps everything else picked up and organized. When she was little I used to sing the "clean up song" from Barney to help making cleaning fun. Try putting on a favorite song and cleaning while you dance. Just make it fun and maybe reward her for a job well done. Maybe start a piggy bank for the things she wants at the store and each time she cleans without whining you give her coins for the bank. If she whines and cries just because you want her to clean her room... I would ignore it because drawing attention to behavior you don't care for could make it worse.

Good luck.

I was never good at getting my kids to pick up when they were little. However, here are a few suggestions. Remove the toys from her room while she is in school. Bag them in bunches so you can return things together. As she does something good, return her items.She has way too much I am sure, gets bored and needs new things. Keep a bag for times when she needs something new, Then get the toy bag down.
A tempertantrum in the store can result in no dessert that night, no tv that she loves that night, a time out, leaving the store immediately.
Start a reward system, by giving her 10 stones(gems). Take one away each time she whines. At the end of the week, if she still has 8, take her to a park or something else that she likes.
You can't work on everything at once. Pick what is most aggravating, and start there. As she improves her behavior, work on the next thing. And, praise, praise, praise, all of the time. Get her out doing lots of physical exercise daily. With what you are saying, don't worry about the room cleaning, till she gets the behavior under control. Be calm.

Hi! My daughter has a lot of the same issues your daughter has! She's very stubborn and inflexible and tantrums a lot. She also doesn't like to clean up her room. The advice the other two women gave is on the money! Don't respond to whining. I always say, "I don't understand you when you whine. Use your big girl voice and your big girl words."

When you wrote that your daughter whines and cries for no reason had me a bit concerned. My daughter does that too. My daughter also had problems with playing with other kids and other issues. Does your daughter play well with other kids? The reason why I ask is that my daughter has Asperger's. Asperger's involves social problems. One aspect of it, however, is rigidity. When things don't go her way, she'll cry, even have tantrums.

If your daughter is fine with playing with other kids, then this probably isn't an issue with her. I was just wondering!

C.
www.littlebitquirky.blogspot.com

There are alot of paths to getting what we want and I am sure that even at 4 she has learned that whining et al, gets her things (or out of things) and is much easier than other paths like obeying do.

I think the store tantrums have an easy answer (although not easy for you, I am afraid). Say no. don't give in. Even if you have to walk out of the story or (yikes!) be the mom with the screaming kid in the buggy, she will learn that the tantrum didn't get the results she was looking for. You will probably have to be more strict that you usually would be on this one before you can migrate back to where you feel comfortable.

With regards to her room, I know it can be daunting for a little kid. I would suggest she be required to pick up toys daily so it is not so overwhelming. At our house, no clean room means no bedtime snack. A clean room means 1 gumball which at the end of the week gets turned into a quarter (plus, you get to keep/eat that week's gumballs!!)

Good luck!!