Communication Advice

I have just started a book called: Mars & Venus In Touch; Enhancing the Passion with Great Communication by John Gray. I guess the title speaks for itself.

I think Marci W. read this book or she's actually John Gray, j/k. It is a small quick read, to the point book. It was only $2.95. A friend recommended this to us but we only could find it online.

Sounds like both of you could benefit from this book. Hope you feel better soon.

Wow.

Classes on how to communicate?
Logic 101?

Sounds like he clearly doesn't know how to listen actively,
only knows how to hear input filtered by his own STUFF,
and then react from his internal script, rather than to the issue at hand.

Congratulations on putting up with this for such a long time.

You might want to consider getting some counseling for __yourself__
to 1) learn new, more effective, ways to deal with this,
and/or 2) to figure out whether you want to continue in this relationship.

I'm sure I couldn't live with this kind of NON-communication.

Big, big topic, with many facets. To start, let me suggest you google Non-Violent Communication for some specific techniques that can dramatically improve your communication, even if you are the only one using them. You will find descriptions and examples, books and classes. My husband and I both rely on these techniques to help with difficult people, and use them successfully when we have to talk about potentially touchy topics.

But here are a few other observations from your request that I hope you'll find helpful:

Even when we use the much-advised "I feel" messages, if we fall into the common mistake of substituting a concept for a feeling, it won't help and can actually hurt our communication. So these should work well, because they are true feelings: "I feel mad / sad / glad / bored / eager / confused / impatient / content…" and feelings are always legitimate. We all just have them, or they have us. We don't choose them, though we can gradually work with and defuse the negative ones. (Imagine yourself hearing a feeling message from your hunny and notice how you feel in response. Probably not angry, maybe even tender!)

But if, instead of actual feelings, we substitute our thoughts or concepts about the situation, those can complicate matters, because they are open to endless interpretations and argument. So it's not a feeling if you say "I feel unsupported / misunderstood / judged / disrespected / neglected / accused…," and the other person is likely to become defensive and give you his concepts in return, getting neither of you the satisfaction you need and deserve. (Again, imagine yourself hearing an "idea" message from your guy, and notice how you feel in response. Try to understand why that feeling has been aroused.)

So here's just one quick alternative statement you might make, drawn from an example you gave. He's going out for a sandwich and doesn't ask you what you want. Instead of a (passive-agressive) "What about me? (you thoughtless oaf)," say instead what you DO want, perhaps, "Hey, you're going to Subway? I'd LOVE to have a turkey breast with lots of jalapenos. Do you have enough money?"

And if you want sympathy, it can be amazingly helpful to say so honestly, and even give specific instructions if your guy is a bit dense: "Sweetheart, I would SO LOVE IT if you would sit here for five minutes and put your arm around me. I'm feeling miserable right now, and I find that so comforting."

It sounds like there is a root issue here of insecurity and unforgiveness. In the examples you provided, there appears to be a lack of emotional maturity. Arguing like this tends to build up resentment over time.

You guys are perfect candidates for counseling I would think. You need to learn how to resolve this and an uninterested 3 rd party can 'moderate' a discussion on this and help give you both the tools to express your concerns or criticisms to one another.

But put all of this out of your head until you are feeling better.

To me, it sounds like a male/female communication issue. He thinks completely differently than you. Sometimes men are so logical that they come across as completely uncaring with no sympathy for us. Maybe the don't have sympathy? I don't know.

I think that you wish he talked and treated you more like another female would. Like if he were your mom or sister, he would take care of you when you were sick, ask how you were, make or buy you lunch, sit and chat with you, read your painkiller stuff with you, get you both a movie to watch. . .

Men don't operate like that. He wants you to admire him for his intellect and reason and manhood more than he wants love and nurturing/attention. You want the love and nurturing/attention more than you want the admiration.

He is acting defensive and bringing up other dumb stuff, in my opinion, because he thinks that you are challenging his intellect, and he has this desire to show you how smart he is, and how wrong you are. If he feels that you think he is stupid in any way, it is the same way you would feel if you thought he didn't love you any more. Hope that helps you feel less anger towards him. Sweet talking, though unnatural, goes a long way.

It sounds like you both need to learn how to "fight fair". Couples counseling can really help build these skills, and some counseling groups offer classes for these skills.

The reason I suggest this is because I was once in a similar situation with my own husband. We'd been together for a couple years before deciding that even if we didn't want to get married, we'd go to counseling together to learn how to talk to each other about the hard stuff without one or the other of us dropping in "the kitchen sink" of all the past hurts and injustices in the relationship. Because, as you pointed out, sometimes a sandwich is just a sandwich and not an invitation to make someone feel badly. (Although if you'd just said "Oh, Honey, could you make me one too?" he might not have interpreted it the way he had.)

When you go before things get "bad", counseling can be great for reestablishing the foundations of your relationship, helping you remember what you both appreciate about each other, finding common ground and common goals and helping to neutralize the more charged "triggers" in our relationships with each other.

I have the name of a great counseling group and a wonderful male counselor who both my husband and I loved. He's fantastic at relating with and validating both mens and womens feelings, and with a sense of humor. PM me if you want more information.
Best wishes!
H.

I'll be interested to see what others have to say, since my DH can often be the same way - I can joke around with him but sometimes it depends on what kind of mood he is in. I can't ever say anything that sounds like criticism because he'll get all defensive too, like I am attacking him and he can't just listen to what I have to say and take it under consideration (interestingly, his ex-wife is the same way, so it's no wonder they still have communication issues). Then he'll start with, "Well, you do XYZ!" And he'll bring up something else that has nothing to do with the original issue. And sometimes I've called him out on it, and have told him, "You don't need to get all defensive!" and "That has nothing to do with what I am talking about!"

I posted a question on here myself a while back about how he tends to blame everyone else for things, including me, even when there is no one really at fault. See if some of the responses I got are of any help to you.

http://www.mamapedia.com/questions/6866261284690722817

Otherwise it might just be the man way of looking at the world and responding to it - they tend to want to "fix" problems and don't always understand that woman sometimes just need to vent and to have someone understand and be a shoulder to cry on. And I do believe oftentimes background and family history play a role too, in how we learn to communicate with others. I know in fact that my DH can deep down be quite insecure at times about certain things, which might explain why he feels the need to "defend" himself, instead of just being able to admit he was wrong or he doesn't always have all the answers. DH also had a crappy childhood with crappy parents so it's no wonder he has the emotional depth of a teaspoon. Have you ever just said to him, "Hey, I would really like to just talk to you and feel like you are listening." Sounds like he really doesn't know how to just sit and listen.

No advice for you, but wanted to let you know that you aren't alone. My hubby is the same way and I think it is all about his insecurities. Good luck, I haven't figured it out yet and we definitely don't have a healthy relationship.

honestly if my boyfriend ever talked to me like that i would put him in his place and say something like " ok well you can stop being such a jackass and calm down" especially about the getting lunch thing. and my boyfriend brings up other topics too like for example, he used to smoke put and i told him i want him to quit and for the longest time he would use the excuse that his dad used to do it so its ok and so i brought up that his mom cheated on his dad a lot and so does that make it ok for me to do that?...after i had said that he quit smoking :) i would never cheat on him but i would just get so irritated that he would bring up other things. it could also be the tone of voice you are using when you joke around. sometimes people sound serious when they are really just kidding but after being with each other for 4 years you would think he would be able to tell the difference. sorry if i sound straight forward but it upset me when i was reading your question and i cant believe after 4 years he would act like that to you. but deff start being more out spoken and put him in his place. not saying yell at him all the time because thats not healthy for a relationship either but he needs to know the difference between when your serious and joking around. i hope this helps and good luck :)

My EX husband was like this. It sounds to me like he's talking down to you... like talking to you like you are an inferior to him or something or he's always right. My ex would do that, if I had a problem with something he'd bring up irrelevant issue from the wayyyy past and try to side track it... super annoying. I would get mad and just tell him I'm leaving the argument if he is going to be immature and ridiculous and act like what bothers ME doesn't matter to him. There's no way your going to express anything to this guy without him being super defensive... in my experience guys who do this have some secret they are keeping so they freak out on you to justify the reason they do whatever secret they do... just sayin keep your eyes open :) I get migranes quite a bit and if I got them (I can't move my hand without my head screaming in pain) and my ex decided to pick a fight I set him straight.. when your sick, fighting is off limits lol

Good luck babe, I couldn't deal with that anymore