Child Understanding Consequences and Why They Happen

Updated on January 08, 2013
K.B. asks from Detroit, MI
11 answers

I've posted on here about my daughter before and questions about discipline. She can still have her moments, but overall, since turning 5 and starting kindergarten, she's gotten much better about listening, and not pitching a fit just because she isn't getting her way. However, when those moments still happen, and I enforce a consequence, she sometimes gets so worked up about it that it seems she is not learning anything. I get a lot of "You're just being mean, Mommy!" instead her realizing that she brought it on herself with her behavior.

I don't try to have too many rules, but one thing I cannot stand is arguing, whining and back talk. Also, I can't stand continuing to badger and pester me for something after I've already said no or given some other answer. As soon as it starts up, I warn DD that if she continues, consequence XYZ will happen. If the warning is not good enough, I follow through and sometimes that's when all hell breaks loose. DD just about loses her mind because I am sending her to her room, or taking something away, or not doing something fun she wanted that we had planned. It takes her a while to calm down (she gets sent to her room by herself because I am not going to be her audience for her tirade) and sometimes she will be yelling about how mean I am, she doesn't love me anymore, etc. I ignore all of it. Later, after she has calmed down and apologized, I want to talk to her about it, but she really doesn't. I will ask her if she understands why she got sent to her room, why she didn't get ice cream after school, etc. and her response is, "I don't really want to tell you." She doesn't say it in an angry defiant way - she sounds more sad and ashamed. But then I don't know how much she really understands - does she really get it? That she can do the right thing and make good choices and good things will happen to her, or she can make a poor choice and behave badly and then something not-so-good will happen? I tell her these things all the time, but when will she really "get it?"

I want a child that grows up to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. I am especially sensitive to this because of one my stepsons, who is now 18 and has made some much more seriously poor choices and if continues to do so, will find himself down a path that could lead him into major trouble. Some of it, I suspect, is because his mother wasn't as firm of a disciplinarian as she could have been when he was younger, and she continues to bale him out of trouble now. Some of it, I know, is because of the crowd he is choosing to hang around with. Either way, he still doesn't seem to understand that if he ends up in bad place, he will have nobody to blame but himself, and often tries to blame others for his mistakes.

Another issue I sometimes run into - with DD, as soon as she realizes that I am serious and now the consequence is going to happen, she will start apologizing and crying, telling "I'm sorry! I'm sorry!" over and over, in what, I am guessing, is an attempt to get me to change my mind and not follow through. I don't fall for it. I do tell her I understand she is sorry, but she had behaved the right away in the first place, she wouldn't have to say she is sorry now. She gets upset, thinking that just because she said she's sorry, I should let her off the hook. I remember I used to do the same thing to my dad, and he would tell me "Sorry isn't good enough!" or "Sorry doesn't cut it!". I hated when he said that, and it really hurt my feelings, but at the same time, I don't know how else to respond to DD when she does it. Usually I just say, "Hey, how about you don't do XYZ to begin with? Then you won't have to say "You're sorry!" I want an apology to be a true apology, not just something she says to get out of trouble and expect it to work.

TIA for everyone's thoughts, insight and advice!

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T.S.

answers from San Francisco on

She is almost five, and you are WAY over explaining things.
She doesn't do what she's supposed to do? She gets the consequence. Spend a minute (or less) reminding her why and MOVE ON.
Don't try to get into rationalizing or reasoning with a young child, just be consistent, that's how they learn.
As far as the whining and arguing? Send her to her room. Seriously, YOU are the parent, you make the rules. You don't need to explain everything (and they couldn't possibly understand it anyway.)
The patterns you set now can and WILL follow you into the teen years and I promise you do NOT want to be "negotiating" with a teenage girl.
Nip it in the bud now mama!!!

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D.K.

answers from Pittsburgh on

That is why consequences don't work. She is smart enough to know that her actions don't lead to the consequence, your decision does. Hence she will learn that she can do what she likes if doesn't get caught or if she can be sorry fast enough. What you really want is for her to internalize right, wrong and the appropriate behaviors. I strongly recommend looking into positive discipline (not positive reinforcement) to accomplish this goal.

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H.W.

answers from Portland on

My son's kindergarten teacher has a great saying:

"Five year olds are very egotistical."
And she LIKES this age. Has been working with them for a long, long time.

What I read in some of your post seems like your daughter is protecting her ego. She knows what's happened and why she is receiving redirection or a consequence from you, but she doesn't want to rehash it. Much like a lot of adults, come to think of it.

When she says "I'm sorry" repeatedly, I would say "Thank you for apologizing. I really hope this doesn't happen again, for now we need to....." and let her know what comes next.

I have a rule with my son that "if you can show me with your actions that you want to make amends and fix this, I'd love to help you do that" and then we really focus on fixing the problem. At that point, if I see that he is genuinely contrite and wanting to fix the problem, there's sometimes a suspension of any consequential action. It really depends on if this is a first offense or repeat problem. I want him to learn how to fix his mistakes, and also, that many mistakes aren't irrevocable, but that we can learn from them and get past them.

Sometimes this is easier than at other times, too. When he's become overly emotional and near a tantrum, I do try to offer empathy to what's he's feeling frustrated/disappointed with and then, if he's still sounding unkind, I do just tell him "please go take a break until you are ready to use a friendly voice". I do believe that kids don't like feeling out of control, and that making him stay in his room for a specific amount of time is reserved for real rudeness, not just being angry at a situation. They are upset because they have no control, so taking away control further by insisting he stay in his room---when he might be upset and needing reassurance-- is really only for when he's being personal or unkind or purposely uncooperative.

Kids at this age DO NOT want to talk about their failings. This is really important to realize. They are no less vulnerable regarding this than we would be if we were at work and our boss had to censure us. What's worse, they feel terrible if we tell our spouses/others in their presence. My son has told me "please don't tell daddy" lots of times. This isn't about his wanting to be dishonest, but wishing he'd never made that mistake or wrong choice. It's just as bad as if we'd came out of the boss's office and they announced to everyone else "you'd better watch out for this one. She makes mistakes!" It's humiliating to their little egos.

I guess, when it comes to how I deal with my son, I try to think about how I would want to be treated and what I would have wanted as a kid. I would encourage you to parent from a place of hope, not fear. You have had a tough experience with your stepson, but it doesn't mean that your daughter is on the same path. She's five. I would encourage you to find a different response, because what we often hear when "sorry doesn't cut it" comes our way is "you can't fix this mistake. What you've done is so terrible, nothing can make it better. Your apology isn't good enough for me. I won't forgive you". You can relate to how terrible that made you feel. What did you *want* to hear from your father? "I hear that you are sorry-- let's try a way to fix this"? "Thanks for apologizing--you made a big mistake and I'm angry, and I still love you. We'll work through this"?

We want our kids to keep trying, so find a softer response to her apologies. You want a child who takes responsibility for her actions, so I would suggest finding ways, whenever possible, for her to make amends instead of being punished. She *will* learn better to fix problems she's created, to apologize (if it doesn't mean getting shot down or humiliated) when she's made mistakes, to approach her mistakes as often-fixable. If we only punish, we don't really teach them other than 'don't do it again'....we don't teach them the life skill of actually stepping up, taking responsibility and making things right. She has to trust that her apology will be taken at face value and that through making amends-- THAT is how she backs up an apology.

One of my pat phrases with my son, sometimes, is that when he apologizes to me after we've mended the situation, I'll tell him "thank you. You know the best way to show me that you are truly sorry?"

"Don't do it any more?"
"That's right, sweetie. Don't do it any more."

We're still working on a few things too. I won't lie and say we don't have some punishments-- he's going into a whole week of no treats because he snuck candy with a friend during a playdate at our home after another similar incident last week. Overall, though, he's a good kid and he's learning--learning that even when the older, more glamorous kid suggests sneaking something, he needs to say no. That's one I do have some fears about, and I have to remember that sneaking candy at five is different from stealing in high school. Natural consequences in the moment (like only getting to play in the living room for the rest of the playtime, with adult supervision) are part of the instruction, and so is our belief in them AND our message to them that we believe they can and will do better, eventually. (and yes, I sometimes think that a week of no treats will be a bit more instructive than 'being cool' with it. And he chose this from one of two "loss of privilege" choices he was presented with.)

Sorry this post is so long, but it's really not a "Do XYZ and your child will change" sort of thing. It's a lot more nuanced and I have no magic bullet answers.:) Walking down a similar path right now. Good luck and hang in there.

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B.F.

answers from Dallas on

Parenting is so much harder when you are in the middle of it.

First of all, pick your battles. The lower the stress levels the better. If you lower your irritation level then she will lower hers. Get quieter instead of louder. Especially don't make it the biggest interaction of your day.

Your best bet in keeping her out of trouble is to develope an open dialog and a assurance in her of your being on her side. That doesn't mean letting her get away with things. That's just not possible. But just love her so much that she doesn't want to disappoint you. Play with her. Listen to her.

Make clear the rules. Post them on the wall. No arguing. No back talk. No saying she hates you. No deliberately trying to hurt you. Write it out, then both of you can get used to the rules. Be consistent. She has to tell you which rule she broke. She will get it. Make the punishment fit for the crime and connected to the crime. No "you always" or "you never". Deal with the problem at hand. Don't bring up other things it just muddys the water.try to make the consequences immediate. Saying your sorry doesn't get you out of disapline.

This is where the rubber meets the road in parenting. It's really easy to look at others and see that something didn't work, like your stepson's situation.
But you are now seeing how hard this is.
Good Luck!

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J.O.

answers from Boise on

She get's it, she's just testing her boundaries. Their whole entire childhood is about testing boundaries, as soon as you have this issue solved a new one will pop up.

The question you need to ask is....is being so strict getting you the results you want? Honestly, it doesn't appear that it is. Some kids, well into their 6's will still be prone to fits. Why? Because they haven't figured out how to properly express themselves. This has nothing to do with intelligence or understanding that something they did is wrong, they usually get that, but they are mad that they didn't get their way.

To us the answer and solution seems obvious. To them it them it is the end of the world. Those old sayings that most of us hated when we were younger..."Sorry doesn't cut it".."Because I said so"..have merit. sometimes 'sorry' doesn't cut it. When she says sorry it's okay to say "Sorry doesn't cut it because XYZ was wrong", and guess what sometimes things will be the way I say, because I said so.

Empathy, a true apology is something that comes with time. By nature children are very self absorbed, with maturity that changes. Keep your expectations realistic for her age.

One other thing, quit parenting based off of an older child. She is not that older child, she is herself and no one else. Parenting for fear of someone else's actions is not very fair to her. I am a very lenient parent, and have 4 grown kids and 4 younger ones. My older kids are all good, upstanding children. There is a middle ground...find it, and make both of your lives a little easier.

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C.V.

answers from Columbia on

Please read Love and Logic. Real life consequences are the best consequences.

It sounds like you're doing some good stuff...and staying consistent. That's important and half the battle.

For the instances of her refusing to talk to you, the "I don't want to tell you " stuff...I think that's a power play. And we don't get into power plays with children because they aren't in charge.

As a parent, I would calmly look at her and say "Well, I'm sorry to hear that you don't want to talk about it, because part of learning how to behave correctly is talking so I know for sure that you remember what to do next time. Please go back to your room and I'll come and get you in a while to see if you're ready to talk about it."

Don't let her grudging "OKAY! I'll talk about it now!" response sway you. Send her back to her room, because she clearly hasn't gotten the point.

I'd say read L&L, and add a few tools to your toolbox. Keep up the good fight. I know you're in a frustrating time, but she'll get it eventually.

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D..

answers from Miami on

If you had a boy, you'd know that they just don't want to talk once they've lost the battle. I think perhaps the same thing is going on with your daughter.

Keep being tough on her. What this means is that you are doing the right thing. She is continuing to fight with you because she is trying to get you to back down. You don't need to let a 5 year old rule the roost, and if you give in because she is yelling and saying that you hate her, then you are letting her know that this is what works.

I understand that you are worried about "channeling" your father. Don't be. Just don't push her to "talk" about this stuff. And the only way to get her to understand that "sorry" after the fact won't get her out of the consequence is to ignore all this stuff, and stand by your decisions.

Dawn

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S.S.

answers from Chicago on

your making it harder than it has to be. action = consequence end of story. don't drag it out with long conversations. she won't remember the action or the consequence she will remember you going on and on and on about it. my sons teacher in kindergarten had a stop sign on each childs desk. it had a red, yellow , green circle. and a small car that moved between the colors. they started on green, consequence moved to yellow etc. another teacher had a big poster at the front of the room with each childs name down it. there were 3 columns. each day they started empty. as a child got a consequence a check mark got put in the column. they got 3 they went to the office. i started this one at home with my boys. i just hung a pc of paper on the dining room wall. they hated it. but it worked. they hit 3 they lost tv, computer, etc no questions no discussion. action = consequence. make a list of rules / consequences. and just follow through. and don't ask her to say sorry. she is not sorry she did it only that she got caught.

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C.B.

answers from San Francisco on

I think the biggest reason she "doesn't want to tell you" is that she has a hard time accepting responsibility for her behavior. My GD is the same way. In fact, her school set her up with a counselor to work on that issue.

I think it's important to MAKE her tell you what she did wrong. She needs to acknowledge it. I always tell my GD "If you don't want to own it, don't do it." If she does it, she has to own it and fess up to it.

When your daughter starts in with "I'm sorry, I'm sorry" take a minute and ask her to tell you what she's sorry for. If she can own it, relax the consequence a bit for her acceptance of responsibility. If she doesn't own it, she stays in her room until she does.

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K.K.

answers from Saginaw on

It sounds a little like you might be making it harder than it has to be. You are giving her a long reason and explanation for everything. Why you want something done this way...what could happen if she messes up...how not to mess up next time...etc. that's WAY too much for a 5 year old to process. She's getting confused. if YOUR "why" and HER "why" don't match for some reason...you've opened it up to a debate.
You are the parent....she doesn't need a "why", I'm not saying to use the old faithful "because i said so" but when her emotions are high, because she isn't getting her way...she doesn't care what your reason is, nor will she listen to it, or believe it.
It seems that you are drawing it out too long too.....you tell her no...you tell her no again...you warn her...you try to deflect her with a consequence...she tries again,...then you send her to her room, or whichever consequence happens. and then after she finally calms down, you want to bring it back up to see if she learned anything. Arguing with a 5 year old is a futile battle. 5 year olds don't understand cause and effect that contain big words and reasons. They understand instant gratification and instant punishment. If you tell her NO and she whines...immediately put her in her room(or whatever you punishment is)...without a discussion. no words at all. let her calm down...then start over. About twice of that kind of reaction from you...and she'll realize that she doesn't want that to happen. She will change it quickly. Eventually she will put 2 and 2 together...if I do "A"..."B" happens...and I don't like "B"...so I'm not doing "A" again. she will figure this out without anyone explaining it to her.
Think of adults....someone can speak out directions to something to us...but we learn it best when we actually do it. It's the same for them. And her consequence has to be something she really doesn't enjoy...otherwise, to her it might be worth the risk.

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C.B.

answers from Detroit on

I think that no matter how much we do to guide our kids on the right path, sometimes they can still get steered wrong. Because at some point, when they're at school or something, someone will somehow appeal to a base feeling in them. I didn't teach my son to smoke or have disregard for the law.

It sounds like you're doing everything right. I'm thinking in regards to how Jojo did it on Supernanny (why did that show disappear????) She did stress that if there's whining, or screaming, mom isn't going to talk to the child until they can talk in a normal voice. She didn't explain, that I recall., what to do if the child doesn't want to hug and apologize after the naughty chair. I guess they stay there until they can act calm and talk about why they sat there. And half the time I didn't think the 'sorry' kids on the show meant it or really felt contrite. But it's a pattern to use. Good luck

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