5 Year Old OUT of CONTROL

S.,

I am so sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. It must be especially tough being a single parent!

I wouldn't doubt that it's hard to control your son's behavior from afar - like when he's gone at school. Has he always "acted up" like this or has it seem to have gotten worse?

We have found in our house what works well are "magnets" on the fridge - you earn one for each GOOD THING you do. I too like to keep the focus on the good behavior. However, my kids will lose a magnet if they receive ONE warning and don't do what they are asked.

Another thing we have started to move on to (instead of magnets) is that "not listening/not behaving" doesn't earn them timeouts - we've found they just sit there or play - instead it earns them "work". I know this sounds simplistic, but the Bearnstain Bears have a book on Manners that my kids loved. So we modified the list at the end of the book. Each person got to put one thing on the list - this behavior = this penalty. It was important to get their "buy in". The kids were allowed to put down "No Yelling" (from mom and dad) however they've seen it backfire on them when THEY get penalized. This was a kind of FAMILY RULES which helps me get housework done too instead of watching them sit idle in "timeout". We've found the deterrant of "work/penalty" has REALLY changed their attitudes. I think before they felt like they "got off easy" with a timeout. Now, I'm getting garbage emptied, playrooms and bedrooms cleaned up (without my help), etc.

Perhaps if you can sit down with your son, his Dad, the teachers, etc. and create a "Behavior List" that has everyone's buy in, then you will see an improvement. If you all are not on the same page he will continue to "play" everyone.

Another book we got was "How to Raise Your Spirited Child". I think it helped us as parents get some perspective on our energetic, but NOT naughty, child. It helped me to understand "how she's wired" and that some things just overwhelm her.

Also, another book is Love and Logic. It's big in some of the schools and taught to teachers on how to handle kids. Essentially it teaches that bad decisions/choices lead to negative consequences. It takes you out of the "bad guy" role. No more yelling. No more arguments. Essentially when your son misbehaves the "script" is, "I'm sorry you made that choice. You know that I/we don't act that way. If I can't trust you to behave when I'm not around, then you don't get to go to birthday parties, playdates, etc. because I don't know how you'll act. Until you can show proper behavior, we'll have to limit outside activities." See, HE made the choice to misbehave. You didn't. His choice means he can't have playdates. You didn't take it away. I think that this logical consequence works well to remove you from being the bad guy. He has to EARN everything, as opposed to getting it and then losing it.

We are VERY big on "using our words" in our house. If you can't speak in a normal tone, you "take a moment" (like a self-time out) until you can talk normally. No punishment. No anger. Just remove yourself from this situation until you can "use your words".

I think it's VERY important to save true PUNISHMENTS for very bad behavior, otherwise the kid(s) feel like everything they do wrong is what makes them a naughty kid. If he's always seeing things as "being taken away" then he doesn't understand how to keep it. I think in his mind he just says, "Screw it. I never really had it to begin with. Or, I'm a bad kid, so what does she expect?"

I'm sorry I don't have a counselor recommendation for you. But I do hope that maybe something I mentioned helps.

I say make him "earn" simple privileges (everything) with easy to achieve chores and goals. Make him successful! I think you'll be surprised what reversing your strategy might achieve. (That is, all t.v., bike, movies, etc. time is EARNED for doing the right thing and helping around the house.) As much as you can keep it day to day - no "guarantees" for playdates, birthdays, etc. until he can behave EVERYDAY and without you standing over him (e.g. at school). Lakeshore Learning had a simple chore chart that sticks to the fridge. NO "privileges" until chores are done each day (brush hair, teeth, clean room, etc.). It's not an option.

Also, I think the BUY IN is critical. Make sure YOU, Dad, and school are all on the same page, communicating the same message and consequences. The teachers obviously have other kids, so they need to tell you if the "links" are working - it doesn't sound like it, but I don't know how long you've been at it. Maybe the school psychologist has some recommendations? Mom and Dad may not live together but you HAVE TO support each other and uphold each other's rules and punishments.

S.,

I have lots of thoughts and questions. Food for thought. Correct me when needed
I hope they help. Hugs.

Have you asked your son why his attitude etc has changed? There maybe some underlying issue(s) that is bothering him and may not know how to resolve the issue. Maybe an issue in the home front or at the school or both. He might feel that he is not being understood when he is trying to tell you. Is he being misunderstood or can he really not control himself.? If talking doesn't work, maybe he could draw you what's bugging him. Too much punishment may make him lash out more over time to get the negative attention. Have you and his teacher praised him lately on any of his positive behavior in school and at home? With anything little thing that is a positive? Try praising his strengths and not his weaknesses. Praise the good and not the bad. What would you do if in his shoes? Too much punishment can make one shut down become depressed and have a I don't care attitude, because no one is hearing what they are saying. I know that if a child can't verbally explain things to someone they will act out physically. Trying to get one's attention any way they can.

Is he getting enough love and attention at home? Is he being picked on at school? I know how hard it is to juggle everything when working full time and tending to kids, husband, house hold chores, cooking, etc. Please do not forget your own self care.

Do you have some kind of activity or tradition that he enjoys? Something where he can have quality time without interruptions. Maybe think of something that he can do with both you and dad. If he starts to feel unloved his behavior may change more negative too. Just a thought.

Did something happen between classmates? Something traumatic happen at home or at school?

There was a in-service in the school where I used to work as a teacher's associate in the cross category and BD/ED inclusion classrooms. We watched a video demonstrating a classroom with I think were K or 1st graders. One child caused a lot of negative behavior and was punished till they found out that this child had an issue with the seating arrangement. When the teacher put him closer to her desk instead of in the back of the room, everything was find after that. What I am thinking of is that maybe there is something mundane to us as adults but a trigger to a young child. Does this make any sense?
For him to start to escalate his behavior kind of out the blue makes me think somethings is going on. What is he doing that is upsetting the teacher at school? What other options are there at school other than medicating him?

Has his behavior gotten worse since dad came home from being away for so long? This maybe one of his issues with having to share you with him. Does he remember him and how did he react when he came back?

Do you think he may have any allergies? I have seen behavior changes with my own children when taking them to a environmental allergist and not the ones who just do the scratch testing.

I thought that my youngest son maybe ADD in preschool and when he was getting ready to go to Kindergarten, I asked about ADD testing. The school told me to go and have him allergy tested first. I did and yes he had many food and environmental allergies. Many of behaviors did subside or lessened when I controlled what he ate and did the shots for a couple of years. Sugar was a big trigger for my son combined with other allergies, not wonder why he was active all the time. With what I witnessed before my eyes in the allergist's office while doing the testing, I was amazed. I never did pursue the ADD testing I didn't need to. Most of his behavior was caused by the allergies. When he is upset about something, I do have to take 10 till he cools down before we can talk about what's bugging him.

Talk to an environmental allergist.

Also, some Essential Oils may help. I used to keep lavender and peppermint in my desk. There where a couple of students who liked to smell them and I would let them if they did what was asked of them. Lavender has a calming effect and peppermint helps with allergies and alertness and concentration.There are others that may help too.

I know of one mom, who's young daughter who had a hard time sleeping or calming down. To her amazement how quickly she turned around just by adding the scent of lavender in the child's bedroom.

There are Bach Flower Essences that may help too. I used them on myself and my sheltie with anxiety issues. There are ones for the different issues. You can find them in some health food stores or online.Check out this website full of info on what they are and how to use them.

http://www.bachflower.com/
http://www.bachflower.com/38_Essences.htm

I suppose you could have your son do biofeedback. I did it for myself and it would tell me, what deficiencies I had with nutrition and more. I know a place the gives this test in McHenry and Marengo. They can set the test for what ever you want there are many different ones in the computer system. I have my sheltie do it too. I wanted to see if she had bad hips and they told me about her emotions too. Etc. It helped my dog and myself. It told me of the possible health issues and then I could figure out what to do for healing etc.

Have you read the book The Explosive Child by Ross W. Greene, Ph.D.?
I went to one of his seminars. What he talked about and demonstrated makes so much sense to me. I wished I heard of him when my kids were young. I could of used it back then. It is a different way of thinking. It can help avoid many problems in school and within the family unit.

The book focuses more on communication and collaborative problem solving than reward and punishment. Awesome book.

S. you know your child better than anyone, try to find what works best for you and your son.
If you need to talk more,you can privately email me and I'll be glad to talk to you.

If you use medications as a last resort, please don't rule them out completely. You may consider using them short term till you educate yourself as to what is available and what you can afford etc.

If you think he may have ADD/ADHD there is a free course called Visions for Tomorrow sponsored by NAMI (the National Alliance on Mental Illness) This is 8-12 week course of workshops that is geared for the parents of children or suspecting children with a mental illness. It will cover everything from touching base with all the different mental illnesses,from coping, strategies, empathy, support, school issues, brain biology and other issues. You will get a binder full of info and resources. You will meet other parents struggling with their children too. I have seen many a bond formed with those who took this class. Just a thought.

I know it can be a rough road, and I know that the fear of the unknown maybe there, but hang in there S..

Hugs n' prayers, gratitude and peace,
Linda

Is there something in the air or water lately? My stepdaughter has been the same way!

However, she too has an upset where her mom may be breaking up with her boyfriend and moving.

She tends to ignore us when we talk now, and no amount of punishing helps. It's like she doesn't even care anymore if she's punished. Which perhaps is true! Also, when she goes over to her mom's the punishment is off and she can watch as much TV and eat as many sweets as she wants.

We've had some success by taking the emphasis OFF her bad behavior and focusing on the good. I'm not saying we let her misbehave, but we are using "natural consequences." For example she won't take a bath and once she's in the bath she won't get out. So now she bathes before dinner. We announce "we are eating in 10 minutes." If she doesn't get out, we start without her. When she does finally arrive at the table we don't make a big deal either way.

We've found we have to put something fun after anything she doesn't want to do. The House Fairy comes to her room unannounced and leaves surprises if it's clean. So we use that to get her to clean her room and also to get her to bed. We wouldn't want the House Fairy to turn around and leave because you're still awake!

I've also found that the misbehavior is sometimes a test. Not a test of what she can get away with, but a test to see if you'll still love her. Sometimes when she's misbehaving, I'll do the opposite and pull her into a hug and say "I love you so much! You are so important to me! And I am so proud of X (name something she did right)." It's amazing how I can turn it around and suddenly she WILL set the table or whatever. It surprises her because she expects to be yelled at but instead she gets hugs. I actually does NOT reinforce the behavior (like you think it would) but actually reinforces how she can be loved and do what you ask of her.

I was once told that in the heat of frustration, find something you LIKE about the child. It's hard, but you can do it! And it changes the flow and suddenly they ARE likable!

Also, I run good control on her. If I need to I will break down what I want her to do. If she won't get out of bed I'll say "Sit up!" then "Good! Now put your feet on the floor!" and if she doesn't do it I will physically make her do it. It's not about dictating, it's about good, gentle but firm, control.

Good luck! I wish you the best.

I have no ideas for you but I will say that you CAN get counseling for him with a medical card. My daughter and I have a medical card and a couple of years ago I went to counseling and used my medical card. There is a $2 co-pay (I think) for adults and no co-pay for children.
I'm not sure where you would go in your area but you could call Kenneth Young Center in Elk Grove (that's where I went) and ask them for a referral. It's a community mental health facility. I'm sure they could help you find the same type of thing in your area. There number is ###-###-####.
Another thing to do is call your case worker. They should have referrals for mental health facilities in your area that accept medical card.
Here is a list of the DHS Mental Health facilities located in Kane County http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?module=12
Good luck!

My daughter is almost 9 and I have been where you are. I didn't know where to start, who to turn to, and even what help I needed or how to get it.

Take a deep breath! It is a long road and probably not an easy one ahead, but if you invest in your son (time and unfortunately money) then you will absolutely see results AND have a better relationship with him.

Diet has been a biggie for us. I started seeing her get "wild" after she would eat certain things. Everyone blames sugar, but for us it wasn't that simple. We cut out the artificial colors and saw a dramatic change in her attention and behavior. We have since cut out other things and continued to see improvement. We use the Feingold Program and it is has really helped us. www.feingold.org for more info on this. You are certainly not alone!! And no, I don't work for them. I WISH!

Secondly, yes, I would get therapy. It helps. You can get ideas on how to direct him, how to help with focus, etc and time outs or other reinforcements. One thing that we have learned is that positive reinforcements are wayyyy better for us than negatives. Time outs should be one minute per year of age too, generally.

We have points for certain things she has to do (toothbrushing, homework, etc) and then she cashes in the points for rewards. It's kept extremely simple and once she earns the points we can't take them away either.

Read. Read. Read. Research. This is free. Use the internet- there are all sorts of forums and sites out there. Check out books for the library. Read them all. Active Alert Child, Bipolar Child, Tourette's, ADD, ADHD, Sensory Disorders.... no matter what (if any) diagnosis your son gets, these books will reassure you that you aren't alone and will teach you how to talk to him, how to work with him as a team, and how to parent him because you can better understand him and what he is doing/dealing with.

This is the path I followed, with relatively good results:

Pediatrician
Reading and more reading
Allergy testing
ENT for tonsil removal (we have physical symptoms too)
more reading
Pediatrician for second opinion
Opthamologist for eye tic/vision complaints
Alternative allergy testing (big help!!)
Feingold program
Psychologist
Outpatient program at hospital
Psychologist/Psychiatrist (have changed 3 times to find good ones, interviewed 2-3 before those!)
Pediatric Neurologist (have had 3)
Pediatric Neuro-psychologist (testing for giftedness and disabilities)
ENT for further physical testing, now suspecting PANDAS

We have working diagnoses now and have recently started medication. The thing with medication that we found out is that if you do just put a child on meds, you may be masking symptoms or making things WORSE in the long run if you don't have a TRUE diagnosis. Be very careful of someone who throws around things like, "I would put him on Risperdal." Also, before medication, you need bloodwork and an EKG to rule out any chance of seizures.

If you have questions, feel free to contact me. We are in Elgin.

M.

I just have a couple thoughts. You mentioned that you could tell him to do something 15 times and he just ignores you. You need to MAKE him do it. If you tell him to brush his teeth, and he ignores you twice, you drag him to the sink and brush his teeth for him. He won't like it, and may even cry, but the next time you ask him to brush his teeth, he'd rather do it without your "help". I don't allow my kids to ignore me...it's exhausting, but effective. I think before I talk. If I don't have the energy to enforce what I want, then I don't say it.

The second thing that came to my mind is the links punishment system. I like to focus on the positive, not the negative. We have "kindness chips". Each family member has a jar. When someone does something kind (or in your case does something positive), they get a poker chip in their jar. Even Mommy gets chips too. This will help your son focus on the nice things he and others are doing.

Daddy wrestled with me, I'll give him a chip. Mommy took me to McDonalds. If he does small things, reward that...like bringing dishes to the sink, doing something the first time he's asked. Soon the good things will get bigger because he's looking for a chip. When the chip jar reaches a certain number, he gets a reward.

You don't medicate a child just for misbehaving. Just demand his respect, and insist he does what he is told. Do not allow him to ignore you. Get up, get in his face, and make him do it, or stop it. Good luck and be strong. You can do it.

I have two girls ages 6 and 4 and a son age 1. I watch three children ages 5, 3, and 2....

First thing I notice is the links??? A five minute time-out? The 2 year old that I watch would laugh at a 5 minute time-out. Who cares?

Your consequences are inconsequential to your little man. He doesn't care about the consequences of his behavior. And that's very evident.

Get the book by James Dobson...A Strong Willed Child. It's an oldie but goodie. I've never known a single child that didn't respond to proper, loving, structured discipline.

Talk and talk and talk...please keep doing that, but don't expect him at five years old to be able to reason with you and be logical. He's a child and can't understand reason. A child's brain can't do that adequately until they are about 18 and that's a scientific fact. Talk to him, explain to him and then administer punishment that he can understand and really want to avoid.

A five year old child can't ignore you unless you let him. If you call his name and he doesn't look at you, immediately walk to him, get down to his level and make him look at you. Hold his little face, gently but firmly and make him look at you. Then tell him what you wanted to say and make him repeat it. Then if you have to guide him as you make him do the task you have instructed of him.

You are the parent and he has to know that their is no room for discussion. He will listen to you and follow instructions. My girls will be in a 30 minute time-out for ignoring me. I start out by making them look at me and then after a few months they know that they will stop and look at me when I'm talking or they will go to their room. And not for a five minute time-out. If they aren't miserable for an extended period of time, then the time-out is not affective.

I will remind them from time to time to look at me and then I'll ask them to repeat what I said. Then they should do it.

Seriously do not let him ignore you.
Do not give him more than one or two chances.
If you tell him there will be consequences that ALWAYS follow through.
Never change your mind or give in to a tantrum, whining, or crying...then he knows you have a breaking point and will go for it everytime to manipulate you into doing what he wants.
Always praise him when he follows instructions, follows the rules, says thank you, please, and so on. Reinforce the good behavior, but ALWAYS address the bad behavior as well.
Lots of hugs and kisses and tell him you love him no matter what....explain that you can be upset with him for not behaving, but you will always love him.

Hope that helps. I too think that you need to step up your game before considering drugs. I worked with middle school children for ten years and most of the kids that were on medication just needed stronger, more diligent parenting.

You'd be surprised what the state covers. My son has a bit of ADD and we have him on Adderall only 5mg, but it's enough to give him the focus he needs in school and by the time school is over the medication is wearing away and he's back to spunky self. He also has other special needs, but overall a great kid.
Ask your Primary Care Physician for help or advice. Or his Kindergarten teacher, or even the social worker @ the school. It does take a village to raise a child. :)
take care
C. (SAHM of 3 - a 7yr old, 5yr old & 4 yr old)