Young Boy with ADD at the Park, Completely Wigging Out.

It takes six weeks for Strattera to kick in, and it's given in incrementally higher doses until the highest dose is reached in the last week, so side effects usually show up right away, but the side effects do include this kind of behavior. He also might have been misdiagnosed and the meds are making him hyper, not calming him down.
I would have done exactly what you did.

Well there is a child in my area that has aspergers syndrome. Its a form of autisim. The mom does seem to be consistent with discipline. However his behavior is the worst I have ever seen. He becomes very aggressive especially towards kids younger and smaller than himself.
He has a diffucult time with new places and new people.

I would like to say "thank you". Obviously you saw a woman in need of help and you really went above and beyond. I think a lot of people would have gotten in their cars and left saying to themselves "what a horrible child".

I hope the Grandmother contacts the prescribing doc about this incident, it really sounds like it was out of the norm and perhaps brought on by the medication.

I hope this family can find the help they need.

Bless You, and your daughter!!!!

M.

Wow I feel for this lady! My son is the same way...i just want to respond to the comments about drugging kids, come take my son for 1 week without his meds and youll change your tune! Hes bipolar, and yes its been cerified by 3 Drs. I had to wean him off some of his meds to try different ones and 3 days after the start of the wean I ended up with stitches on my arm from where he bit me! Back to the question, I would just reach out to the woman, be a sorce of support for her. That's the greatest thing you could offer someone with difficult kids. My sons dr said children who aren't necessarily ADHD kids the meds for it will cause extream agression which is why my son doesn't take the tradional meds to help with hyperactivity. And thanks for being caring! So many times people get stared at and judged for having kids like this! You sound like an awesome person

For goodness' sake folks.

Fetal alcohol syndrome, drug exposure in utero, ODD, RAD, ADHD, PTSD Autism - ALL of these differences/disorders takes more than a blurb to identify and diagnose. No matter if we are professional or not, one snapshot incidence is not going to give us enough information to identify the complex systems at play.

We don't know what great grandma has tried, hasn't tried, or the consistency of which she has tried different techniques. We don't know what resources she has already accessed, how long her great grand son has lived with her, or exactly what he was exposed to before birth. We don't know if he's been sexually assaulted, abused, or neglected. We don't know where he's lived or been around. We don't know if he ate that evening, had a bad dream the night before, or was triggered by something during the day. We really don't know how proficient great grandma is as a care provider and parent. It sounds like she is deeply invested and bonded with her great grandson.

I apologize if I'm coming off as grumpy. I do feel strongly about this but it is not with you that I am upset.

There is such an incredible lack of awareness, knowledge, support and resource for our children who are "in the system" or who are the children of neglectful and/or abusive parents. This is no one person's fault. It is every one of us' responsibility to look at and address.

Our children are not charity cases. They are not some duty that we tick off our list. Our children are not a sum of their identifiers. They are not only described through the difficulties they've insured. They have not only been let down my their bio parents, but also by society as a whole. This is real. It is an outrage.

People are much more complicated than a diagnosis or quick history. Children are people too.

Look, this kiddo may very well have the neurodifference ADHD. Or maybe child presents as having ADHD but his symptoms are a result of trauma or PTSD, drug addiction, transition, and/or an attachment disorder.

Or, more likely, he has a combination of factors at play. Maybe he was misdiagnosed (family care doctors and pediatricians are not qualified to give neuropsych evals but they often diagnose and medicate children without the experience, knowledge, and technology that is required when diagnosing and individual) and maybe he wasn't. I simply can't know that.

What I DO know is that kinship care is no cake walk, and a it's not a one stop destination. We don't take a child into our home and our child goes through sudden change. This takes time. Time and the persistence of hanging tough while kiddo works through layers of systems and issues. It takes unconditional love. It takes an extraordinary amount of physical energy, trouble shooting around barriers, sleepless nights, feelings of inadequacy, doubt, guilt, and shame.

We hesitate to speak about our families history for fear that our child will be stigmatized or that we will be given advice and/or pecked and pulled apart, by well meaning individuals who have zero experience.

I get that you think she could have managed the situation better. And when isn't that true? When can things NOT get any better. But, most likely, she was doing her best with what's she's got.

My suggestion? Drop the assumptions. We've all got them, we're human and we're not bad for having 'em. It's just the way of life. However, it helps if we can reel them in for the sake of objectivity and empathy.

Do this out of a place of trying to learn, rather than trying to teach a lesson.

Does great grandma want help? Have you directly asked her what she's already tried, what barriers she met, what paths she hasn't tried but already knows about, and what support would be helpful? I commend you for your candor and willingness to be an available support to this family. That is wonderful. I only bring up a suggestion so that your time is used most effectively when trying to be of service to great grandma and her son.

To know, most of us are not receiving child support from the bios, our kids are on state insurance which is certainly better than nothing, but does not provide the financial resource to, for example, order an EEG in diagnosis. We still get to advocate for our children, we still get them what they need, but things are harder and there is a smaller pool of practitioners to choose from.

Three books that are incredibly helpful:
"The Explosive Child"
"You Mean I'm Not Lazy Stupid or Crazy"
"In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts"

What would/have I have I done with an out of control kiddo in a public setting? Firmly and gently held my child in burrito position (my leg over her legs so she can't kick me, head back so that she can't head but me, arms holding her arms which I fold into her body so that she can't pinch or hit me/herself. And then wait like that (while speaking in a soothing voice) until the fit and rage diminished. Then, and only then, would I put kiddo in the car. But you know what? A lot of people would choose a different action and that's wonderful, because each of us needs unique tools to help our unique children to thrive.

I wish you well!

I know in IL there are state-funded respite services. They don't teach coping skills, but nothing bad can come from getting a few hours of free babysitting:^)

My daughter is eight and on the autistic spectrum. Personally my husband and I would be completely screwed if not for the information we've gotten on how to help her manage the disorder. While the bulk of it has come from her private therapy, her OT and teacher at school have been helpful as well. Maybe this woman could Google it , or check with the local pediatric hospitals. Just a thought. Good luck!

ADHD is often a symptom of autism. Considering mom was addicted fetal alcohol syndrome and related problems could also be at play too. Before calling social services look into directing her to programs and resorces where she can meet other families with the samestruggle. She may find the proper professional resources through these families. Also, check the autism speaks web page to find help in your area.

I agree with Amy J. I think this country is overmedicated. That does NOT mean that I am judging any of the people on this site whose kids have ADHD, are on the autism spectrum, etc. I am not in your shoes, and I don't know what struggles your kids face, and most of you seem like good, caring people, and I'm sure you are doing a great job raising your kids. But when 80% of the world's meds for just about ANY condition are sold in the U.S., that tells you something. But drugs have their place.

Good for you for stepping in, and taking the time to help.

Your statement about the grandma's comments to him during his meltdown say a lot, and what you may just have is a kid with past drug exposure, who is being raised by an old woman who does not have the physical or cognitive ability to raise him properly, and he is getting out of control.

It's kind of you to help, because at 7, it is not too late to possibly change the course of the boy's life. It won't be easy, however. Good luck and thank you for caring!

ETA -- I agree with the wonderful Ephie's points in general, but kids weren't meant to be raised by one old and worn out woman, alone. This is where a village comes in handy. Sadly, I have discovered that despite our best attempts, it is very difficult to help change kids' lives. That doesn't mean it's not worth the effort.

If he's on the autism spectrum - then of course that makes everything different. However, that's not what the doctor diagnosed. Maybe the woman should have him reevaluated?

Try adhd.com along with autism speaks. Both should have links or places to start for services and help. I live in southern MD and I can say that doctors who provide services are woefully lacking in this area. Not sure how it would be up that way but it's a good starting place.

Stratera and Concerta both can have these kinds of side effects. We tried concerta with my son and boy did that not last long. We were back to the ritalin right damn quick.

As for Amy J ... you clearly don't live with and have never had to deal on a daily/regular basis with someone with these issues, for which you should be very very grateful. Hop down off your high horse until you've lived it.

Ephie rocked it.

Wheeeee. ADHD meltdowns. Been there, and done that. Both with my son, and myself. Yes. They can go on for "short" periods (like 20 minutes), or for HOURS. Snap on, snap off. Like a light switch.

So.

Much.

Fun.

I had my nose broken a couple times before I learned to duck faster. (Full body flailing, as you've just experienced, is no joke), and I KNOW Adhd meltdowns. It's just a totally different ball games parenting ADHD than being ADHD. LOTS more patience required!!! Although the upside is the instant understanding. Okay. I know he's completely irrational and "blind" right now. So now we do this, later we do that, and eventually we get "Voila" IF we're lucky.

STRONGLY DISAGREE with any post recommending parenting classes. Things that work for neurotypical children often make things MUCH worse for those who have ____________. Like clapping and praising a child hitting another child 'makes things worse' with a neurotypical child. Worst. Idea. Ever. when dealing with neurological disorders is to act like they aren't there.

www.additudemag.com is one of the better ADHD resources out there. My personal favorite book is "You mean I'm not lazy, stupid, or crazy?!?" by Kate Kelly & Peggy Ramundo. It's nominally about ADHD in adults, but the phenom thing about it is being able to do 20/20 hindsight BEFORE you're kids are grown up. Able to see how certain things (like how we all know praising a child for beating up other kids results in x, y, z), results in a, b, c.

((Just as an example that is totally outside of your situation: Taking everything away -toys, clothes, etc.- is often a good tool with neurotypical kids. With ADHD kids, though, it creates as much sensory distress as BEATING your children, with the same standard results; drug use, running away, the whole shebang. What looks like responsible good parenting, is actually as bad an idea as beating your kids when you're dealing with a different brain type. DOES NOT mean that you never take anything away.))

Per the meds? Could totally be the wrong meds. OR it could just be that this is his normal 'massive meltdown', and the meds are too low but could be perfect for him at the right dose. Could be a LOT of different things. Including, at his age, hormones.

Something with ADHD kids is that they have to RELEARN their mental and emotional monitoring every time their hormones flux. So the terrible 2's that most parents get ONCE per kid? Expect them at 2-3, 7-9, 11-13, 17-19 (as in for 6-12mo somewhere during those years). With GIRLS, oh mama, ALSO expect at pregnancy and menopause. Wheeeeeee.

The upside... if they've had solid foundations in control as toddlers... then each following stage tends to be shorter and less intense (but bigger bodies, and not being able to just pick them up can make it seem a lot more intense!). If they haven't had a solid foundation in mental and emotional monitoring and regulation... the expect a whole durn YEAR.

So it's really a different ball game.

Where I live there are services for kids with disabilities, but I don't think that it covers ADD or ADHD. The Dept. of Social Services is where I would start... it isn't the same as Child Protective Services.

I bet that there are also some support groups around that she could attend. Those might help her connect with other people as well as learn better, more effective ways to deal with the child's behaviors; although, what you describe sounds like a drug reaction to the new meds.

Poor woman... thanks goodness you were brave enough to help her. Many people would have watched and done nothing.

That isn't ADHD, that is autism spectrum! If you can get in touch with her I would tell her that.

The only thing you can do with them when they are enraged is redirect. The easiest way to keep from having a melt down is telling them exactly what is going to happen before you get to the park. Like we are leaving at six we will be staying till seven at ten to seven I will give you your ten minute warning, at five minutes till we need to start packing up at seven we will be in the car.

Eventually they mature and they make the connections to not be as rigid.

She really needs to know because I have four kids, all of them have ADHD but my third is also autism spectrum. What works for the other three does not work for Andy.

My first thought was "autism" too . . . a form of it. Difficulty transitioning from one activity to the next, opposition - throw in the new med and BOOM - explosive and extended outburst.

He could have also had some brain damage from the fetal drug use.

This poor kid and his great-grandma . . . God bless you for helping them. I'm not sure about resources for you in your area but I applaud your willingness to aid them (and not judging).

I never would have believed it if I hadn't seen a similar incident with my own eyes.
When my son was a pre-schooler we went to a birthday party at the Little Gym where a neighbor of the birthday boy s was invited - the neighbor boy had developmental issues.
He was about 8 but was mentally about 4.
As the party progressed, the boy became over excited and began pushing the other kids.
His Mom stayed with him and tried to calm him down but he just couldn't.
Finally it was getting to the point where he hurt another child and Mom said it was time to go.
The kid begged and pleaded he'd be good can he stay, but his anxiety was winding higher and higher and he just could not control himself.
It took 5 other parents besides his Mom to get and keep him in the car - he kept jumping out one side or the other and by now he's shrieking and screaming - totally our of control.
By the time he left (several parents went along to help get him home) everyone was just shaken and speechless.
I've never seen anything like it before or since.
As they get older, a toddler temper tantrum in a body with adult strength can seriously damage himself and everyone around him.

I don't know what social services might help this woman - she's already working with a doctor and it's too soon to tell if the medication is helping or not.
What she needs is some nursing at home assistance with his care.
Eventually she might not be able to care for him if he hurts/incapacitates her.
He might have to eventually go to an institution, which is very sad - but sometimes there is no other choice.

Who put him on the meds is my first question. Clearly she needs to revisit that. My stepson is ADHD and we put him on Vyvanse b/c it was supposed to be the new "wonder" drug. He was aggressive beyond belief (NOT his normal personality). We waited out the 2 weeks for his body to get accustomed to the med and he was still awful so we took him off of it. I think she needs to ditch the Strattera and try another drug - there are a lot of options - unfortunately it is trial and error to find the right one. As for getting them help, does she recieve any public assistance for him (i.e. Medicaid)? If so, they offer free mental health services to minors. She needs to get him to a good therapist. She also needs to look into whether or not he is autistic. His behavior does not sound like ADHD alone. If he is autistic, she should apply for a waiver which would get her respite care (with an aid coming into the home to provide occupational therapy for him and relief for her so that she can run errands, rest, etc.). My friend's son is severely autistic and a lot of his actions sounds like this boy. She has a waiver and it is a lifesaver for them. This may also be side effects from the drugs/alcohol his mother ingested while pregnant. I don't know if there are any programs geared specifically towards those issues. It seems like she is trying to do the right thing - taking him in general, taking him to the park, etc. She just seems completely overwhelmed. There's a reason we aren't supposed to be mamas to young ones in our 60s. You are a good person to have intervened and to want to continue to help. I hope you all find some answers.

Sounds like a lot more than just ADHD going on there. I would tell her she needs to talk to the pediatrician and/or his school counselor and get him evaluated for more behavior problems. Kids with tough starts can have RAD or ODD as well. If his mom was an addict, I'd be looking at what effect that might have on him. Do they have a version of Child Find in your area? Here, you can request an evaluation from the district for developmental and behavioral problems. It's somewhere to start and our pediatrician told us about it for DD's possible speech problems.

I agree with every single word that Ephie wrote. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Ephie.

As one who has had to find resources on behalf of my child and had to advocate on behalf of my child, I can't begin to describe how incredibly difficult and frustrating that is. In between, there are a lot of adults who either stand in judgement of my parenting, my child or both or who provide "helpful" advice that is incredibly basic vs. the point that we're at. Then I end up feeling that these people are owed an explanation, when in fact, they are not, and I can still see them judging me (for making excuses) as I provide explanation. I always feel like inviting those people to either walk a mile in my shoes for a few weeks or to kiss off...which I'd like them to do depends on the day and the person.

My advice would be to check on grandma and ask her if she needs any help and ask her how you can help her. Identifying resources may not be her need, but there might be other things that would help her. It's great that you helped her when she needed it as she needed. Try not to judge her, as there's likely far more than meets the eye.

Hi, Y.:

Give her advice for the local parenting classes.

Good luck.
D.