When Our Son's in Control

Alexis, very interesting situation he is creating. Please know that he is not in control, it is actually the very opposite, he is losing control. 5th grade is a very interesting time. You did not say at what age you adopted him at, so I will answer more generically.
First you are the parent, always, be one.
He can not determine when he goes to bed, you do. If you say it's bed time, it's bed time, no matter what. If he plays the game of "guilt" to stay up or whatever, that is his choice, you do NOT have to buy into it. Tell him you love him and you are going to bed. And leave it at that. Do not engage the conversation, do not feed into the hype, "i love you always, I choose you forever, goodnight."
Now it IS possible that he feels alone or unloved and at 11PM that is a hard one to work through. This is not a winning situation. So perhaps there are things during the day that need to be said or done so that when he is tired and his defenses are down he doesn't feel this way.

Alexis, DO NOT allow him the control, you are the parent, be one. Be loving and kind and strong and consistent. Make sure he knows that you are there for him, but that his melt-down behavior is unacceptable. Let him know - DURING THE DAY - what you expect of him at night time/bed time. Explain what "our family does to respect our family". Tell him WHY you love him and chose him. And at night, if he goes into that mode, be strong, be consistent and be real. "Honey, I love you, daddy loves you, you are our son. Goodnight." and leave it at that. Do not engage. He is old enough to get the message.
One last point (because it is what I do) nutrition plays a HUGE role in behavior. www.BestBreakfastEver.com is where all my clients and their families start.

B.
Family Success Coach

I'm guessing he was old enough to understand the basic process of his adoption through fostercare while it was happening. If this is the case... He's completely playing you. Why? Because he knows he CAN.

Tell him something like, 'We don't want to nor can we unadopt you.'

And maybe... Tell him, 'Fine, we're going to bed. Stay up if you want.' I know if he calls your bluff, you'll still be wide awake and listening, but he probably won't. I'm pretty sure he will choose to not be up and awake alone. Also, explain to him that you get emotional BECAUSE you love him. If you didn't care or love him, you'd let him do whatever he wanted.

Instead of thinking of this as your son being in control, look at this as your son being VERY UPSET about something. He has to be feeling really badly to be so over-the-top. Maybe his reaction is extreme, or wrong, but he really does feel that badly.

So, if you were feeling really really badly - feeling like you were dirt. What would you want your family to do for you? Would you want them to say "hey - we're tired already. We want to get to bed." When someone says "you're over-reacting.' does it feel to you like you're over-reacting?

Remember he's still a child and doesn't have the coping skills you have. Plus he had a rocky start and has to overcome that on top of everything else.

My suggestion is to look into a discipline method called "Beyond Consequences". (beyondconsequences.com) It grew out of working with adopted kids and how they act badly when they feel unconnected. NOT that the parents have cut them off, but that they FEEL unconnected. It's fantastic. There are books, classes, online groups - lots of support.

Try approaching things from a different way using this method and chances are you will get a different result.

Hang in there and my honest sympathies for all the hassles. I'm sure it's frustrating.

I have to agree with Mechanic Mama, that for most kids, this would be a pretty clear signal that "I'm done". A great (childless) friend of mine encountered some of this sort of behavior from a nephew, around 7 at the time, who wasn't following directions about going to bed at her house and wasn't picking up the playdough they were using. She finally just walked up to him, put the playdough away, and walked out of the room, turning out the lights. Worked like a charm.

Usually I'd suggest the book "How to talk so kids will Listen..and how to Listen so Kids will Talk" by Faber and Mazlish. While I still recommend it, I think JoAnne Nordling's "Taking Charge" might be more up your alley. This book deals pretty specifically with attention-getting behaviors and helps parents to observe patterns, supplement positive attention (to offset the need for negative) and gives us information on how to maximize the positive effects of this, AND makes the child responsible for his/her actions without holding the rest of the family in their sway. Nordling has a family center in the our neck of the woods and has worked with impacted families, helping both parents and children through the challenges of growing up together. My teachers community uses this book both in our own work and as a reference for parents. (It's 'required reading' for parents at my son's preschool...it's that good.)

Because of his past, too, this may be a sign that family counseling, and a counselor for him alone to confide in, is in order. This doesn't mean that anyone is 'bad' or doing things wrong, but between burgeoning adolescence and perhaps some old ghosts in his past, he might have some pretty big stuff to address. Better to do it now, while he's younger, than to wait until this gets bigger as he becomes a teen.

Hang in there-- parenting is tough any way you cut it.
Best wishes,
H.

Does he do this at home... or anywhere he is with anyone?
Does he do this at school, for example???
If not.. then he is only doing this at home.
And if so, he CAN control it.
It is a home dynamic.
He is to me, manipulating you... and is imploding himself.
Sometimes kids like this... needs LOTS more... boundaries.
And... Therapy.
Foster kids...often have many issues... they having had... a bad upbringing or a malformed upbringing.
It is best to get this under control... BEFORE he gets older or becomes a teen... because then.. he will be Physically BIGGER and stronger.... and more able to... perhaps... physically lash out or hurt... the person who does not agree with him.

I think, professional help is needed. And if you do have that... then find another Therapist... that WILL bring about positive changes, in him.

I worked at a home for Foster kids once... they... are very... smart/keen/manipulative/and fully aware... of how to get what they want. They... having had to rely on survival instincts for so long. As children.

Perhaps, family counseling...

Once, when I was in middle school... I was talking on the phone. My Dad told me to hang up. I did not. He waited. Then... he came over to me, hung-up the phone himself, pulled out the phone plug, turned off ALL the lights, closed the door of the room I was in and locked it... and went to bed.
I was... shocked. I never thought, my Dad would do that. He said not one word to me. He just did it. I was not a punk... I just was a chatty middle school girl who liked to talk on the phone. But that is what he did. I never took advantage of the phone again.

When he is NOT in an emotional state of mind is the time to discuss alternative strategies for him to deal with his anger and fears. Involve him in figuring out ways he can calm himself down when he starts to feel like this. Teaching him how to recognize that his emotional state probably has a lot to do with his tiredness (since it sounds like this is mostly an evening thing?). Plan for chores to happen at times of the day when he is well rested and well fed. Think about using The Accountable Kids program as a way for him to take more control of the chores and the outcomes. We also use their family meeting concept as a way to talk about character development (using The Virtue Project).

http://www.accountablekids.com/

http://www.virtuesproject.com/index.php

Lastly, you don't mention whether he is getting any counseling. I am sure with his background that the attachment and trust issues are always present for him. Counseling can help him process those feelings in a safe environment where he doesn't have to worry about you thinking differently about him (not that you would, just that it would be natural for him to fear that). Sounds like you are doing a lot of things right and just need the next step to help him be able to manage his roller coaster emotions.

Some of this is just age appropriate and it gets magnified because you adopted him. Explain to him that you love him so much that you chose him to be a part of your life. Your choice to bring him into your life shows how very special you believe he is. Most parents don't have that choice. Because you love him you want the very best for him and that includes showing him how to become the very best man he can be. Because you want him healthy and happy you set rules for him. You don't create boundaries to tick him off, you set them to make him healthy and happy and to teach him how to be the best person he can be. Ask him if he really thinks that you and his Father stay up at night scheming to make him miserable.

I have a son the same age and he does this to some degree also. I don't take it all that seriously because I realize he really just wants to get out of whatever I am asking him to do. Explain exactly what you want him to do and set some punishments in place. I begin taking things from my son until he complies with my request. Some examples...... ipod, toys, TV time, computer time, activities......... surprisingly the one that usually gets the ball rolling in my favor is ice-cream after supper. We all sit down and eat a big bowl in front of him and it is agony for him. Keep what ever it is you take until you see a significant change in behavior and feel it will stay with him.
Good luck.

He sounds pretty insecure and tossing in some manipulation. I'd advise seeking some pro counseling for this one since it is a sensitive adoption issue.
Also, this one calls for the "stripping" of his room and earning back things when he doesnt melt down. I would never let my kids be awake at 11pm at that age.... not healthy for any of you that's for sure. Maybe he gets that way because he's tired?
I'm just guessing but maybe he is really "needing" some boundaries rather than you enabling him to continue this behavior so as not to hurt his feelings.... justa thought.
Discipline equals love just as much as hugs do. He sounds a little starved for it.

I hope you are in counseling with expertise in adoption

Wow - God bless you for adopting this child. I was just listening to Focus on the Family radio program this morning and this grown man was talking about his childhood and teen years as an "orphan". I cried listening to his story. What a blessing for this child to have you as his parents. First I suggest you go to Focus on the Family's website - they are a Christian organization - but even if that's not your world view they have good information - you can always listen "around" the information you don't want. Their website is family.org - just hearing this guy's story might be very helpful for you. I think you can download the podcast or find another radio station that will be playing today's program in your area this afternoon.

Basically this man said that boys in general, and foster kids specifically have lots of anger. I have an 11 year old bio son and he's got this anger sometimes that just seems to come out of nowhere. I think it's all the testosterone - for which they have no outlet. Hundreds of years ago they would be learning how to protect their village and hunt to provide for their families - now they sit in school for hours...

Once the anger has begun it's like a wave on the beach - it can't be stopped. You have to address it when you're in the calm moments. Tell him how you chose him - that you wanted him and planned for him - and you are never going to dump him. I think that's a genuine fear for kids like your son. Kids have to be told, retold and then reminded again of things. So telling him once or 20 times won't do it - you have to tell him ALL the time. Tell him we love you, we're not going anywhere, we are all going to work through this - and even when you're mad at the world and feel like you hate everything we still love you - even when we're really tired & frustrated, we still love you and are not going to let go of you - ever.

Now lay down the boundaries. Kids need to know that boundaries exist in order to feel secure and loved. My 14 yr old will kick and fight against her boundaries - but when I pushed her for an answer she finaly admitted that she was glad we were "so overly protective - deep deep deep down inside". They don't want to admit it but they're secure with rules and limits. Tell him that the limits and boundaries are for his protection and that if you didn't love him you wouldn't have the limits on him. Tell him that if he doesn't listen and follow the limits that you've set then he's outside the circle of protection. Like a llitte kids who doesn't hold your hand, or pulls free of your hand when crossing the street - you can't protect the child who runs out into traffic - but you can protect the one who holds your hand. Explain that you don't need him to physically hold your hand, but figuratively he need to hold your hand so you can keep him safe. That's your job as his parents.

As for chores, your job as a parent is to teach im and show h im how to handle the stuff of life for when he becomes an adult. Taking out the garbage or loading the dishwasher are things he needs to know one day to be a good husband / dad himself - and the way to learn them is gradually at home. Tell him the place to learn life lessons is at home surrounded by people who love you - not when you get to be an adult surrougnede by people who don't neccessarily love or care about you. How much better to make mistakes when there's loving people around to help you get back up!

Set up expectations - the concept of the self-fulfilling prophecy. Tell him that while you know self-control at certain times isn't always easy - he's had to do alot of things in his young life that haven't been easy and you know he can be successful at this. Help him come up with ways to help himself gain control - have you been to a good counselor together? From a Christian persepctive I find that praying helps my kids gain control in moments when they feel that they might spin out of control - and self-control is a fruit of the spirit - but that may not be an approach your family is comfortable with. Talk to counselors about ways to help him gain or regain control.

Be sure to praise him when he does handle things well. When you see him getting angry then controlling himself make sure he knows how proud you are of his ability to work at it. It won't be perfect, there will be starts and stops, but remind him when he's struggling that you know he can do this and you have great expectations for him.

When he does lose control and and goes into a tailspin you need to find a way to calmly remind him doing by doing what you've already been doing - we love you we will always love you but we won't address this now, when you've calmed down we will. he's only been on the planet 11 years - he's got so much to learn and unlearn. He's learned that people who he should be able to rely on can't always be trusted and relied on - and he's got to unlearn that. YIKES!!!

Finally maybe you should write a letter to him that he can refer back to when he's going through those dark moments. Make a few copies knowing that he may tear up the first one or two in a fit of anger - won't he be surprised when you give him another copy. Tell him how you know he was planned to be with you since before time, that you were meant to be his parents and you love him and will never leave him or desert him. Remind him that he's precious and he's loved. If you're a Christian or a Jew you can find beatiful verses in the bible that will affirm that. I like Jeremiah 29:11 - "I know the plans I have for you declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you a hope and a future". Psalm 139 is another passage that affirms God's presence in our lives. Tell him the things about him that make him special - his sense of humor, or the way he roots for the udnerdog, his great math skills, or his tender heart for kids, etc.

And pray - seek God's vision for this child. Ask for discernment and guidance. I truly believe that God cares about the details of our lives and wants to be involved in working these things out.

And give yourself some slack - parenting is a tough and thankless job for many many years. You are probably doing better than you realize and your son may even tell you that. When he's in a calm mood - ask him "how do you think this is all going? How are we doing?" You may be really surpised at his response. ;o) God Bless!

Maybe you can try Validation when he is upset. With his background, he may have difficulty processing emotions which is an aspect of many mood disorders. He may be feeling something (like threatened that he might be abandoned) and it comes out as anger. Validation accepts the emotion he is feeling and empathizes with it. The example I always use is when the child says You don't love me! and we respond "Of course, we love you!" that is NON validating. A better response is "Something has happened that is making you feel that we don't love you. That must be a really bad feeling. Can we talk about what happened to make you feel this way". This response acknowledges that he is feeling a strong emotion and empathizes with it. Hopefully he opens up a little then and tells you because you're making me go to bed or whatever - truly listen to what he says. Then you can say, Wow, I understand that we were having fun watching TV together. I love our family times too. However, it's important that you get your sleep so that we can all enjoy family time tomorrow, too. Can you think of anything special you'd like to do tomorrow? Try the book, "I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better" by Gary and Joy Lundberg or just do a google search on validation techniques. I also think it would be a good idea to speak with a counselor on communication techniques you and your husband can use. It is a wonderful thing that you are going and will likely take some special techniques to make him feel secure. Good luck!

Alexis,
I think you are doing and saying things right. It is a good sign that you know that you are not in control. To me that means that you are on the right track to finding a solution.
I have a daughter that similarly repeats and repeats things and doesn't listen to what I have said. I finally figured out how to talk to her so she will listen.
I "repeat" her words. So she will come to me saying something and if it has an emotional tone, ( I usually can catch it the first time) But when I find myself answering and she, saying the same thing and me stating what I have already said, I stop. I listen to her again, then I repeat what she has said and then repeat what I have stated again.
This usually results in a conversation rather then her just repeating herself. Sometimes if it is an obvious answer on my part, I will repeat what she has said in a question.
So take your sons comment for example....
I would say, " you think I hate you" as a statement. He will say "yes" or "Yes, because.....". If he just says yes, I would say, Why do you feel I hate you?" Once he gives you a why, then you can restate, " you think I hate you because...." as a statement. Then you can go from there, I would explain to him that everyone gets to do things that they don't want to sometimes that is just how life is. I would state things that you don't like to do but that you do anyway....(work, cook, clean...) because you do love him. That you have set up rules and consequences, because you do love him.
But stick to your guns, he doesn't have to sleep, but he does have to stay in his room and be quiet. The consequence? he still has to go to school and you take his favorite pass time away the next day. by doing this you are still giving him a choice, (cause you can't force him to sleep) he can choose to sleep or not, and he can choose to stay quietly in his bed or not. But for both there are consequences that mean something to him. (that is what you need to find).
Also if you let him help you make family rules and decide what the consequences are (ones you are comfortable with). He will follow them or agree more to do the consequence because he already agreed to it before the rule was broken.
So don't let him know that he is bothering you. Stay matter of fact and state things with out emotion, like its no big deal to you if he cant play with friends, or on the comp. or video games, or read, or whatever it is that he loves.
Good luck! you can do this, just stay loving and remember it is for his growth that he needs to learn to follow family rules and be taught how to be part of this world.
E.

Just a few random thoughts:

* Explain to him - when you're not in conflict (maybe in the morning) - that you love him and that this isn't acceptable and how you're going to respond when he does this.

* Kids desperately want parents to provide them boundaries even though they sometimes push against them. However you choose to deal with it, be consistent and provide appropriate boundaries.

* The best thing you will ever do for him is to help him control his emotions. It is impossible to live a happy, productive life when you are controlled by your emotions because, as you have seen, people can believe things that are completely untrue ("you don't love me") and that's not healthy.

This is unchartered territory for me (the foster care part).
BUT I assume you all are in family counseling. I would speak with your therapist about this and see what advice they have to offer.
As a mom, I would suggest you read Kid CEO by Ed Young.
It could also be beneficial to have a conversation with your son (he is about 10, right?) that a family is a choice. Talk to him about the chioce you and hubby made to get married and how important that decision was and liken that commitment to the commitement you & hubby made to him as your child.
THEN be sure he knows that sometimes kids don't like what parents do. That is a part of life, but your job is to love him and do the best for him and that includes going to bed, eating vegetables and all those things that are your job as a parent.
ALSO I think you should consider mapping out a contract of some sort that he signs. He knows he has to go to bed at X time, he has to eat X number of meals at the table, or whatever and if he does this, you all will do X if he doesn't do this X will happen.
Rambling a bit and I don't know all the ins and outs, but hopefully some of these suggestions will help you all.