When Does It End????

We would do that too (3 was sooo much worse than 2 and 4 is much better) My daughter would scream and cry and cry and scream and start gagging when I was ignoring her. I was convinced that she would have to stop eventually.. but she didnt.. finally I had enough.. I went over to her and with a VERY stern (not yelling stern) voice that it was ENOUGH, that she does not cry and scream every time she doesnt get her way, that is not allowed.. I think the shock of me coming over and being very stern right up in her face snapped her out of her tantrum, she stopped screaming for a second and I kept my stern voice and said that she is supposed to sit time for quietly for 3 mintues and then she can come to us.. The trick was to really show them you are serious.. without yelling.. I got 2 inches from her face and just really let her know I had enough.. no time for patiently asking nicely.. let them know it's enough NOW.. it worked for me.. now I just remind her when she starts to get that way.. she seems to remember how serious I was about it..

Ignore it. I think as mothers we feel like we should always intervene and discipline in some way, but I think you are right. Let him work it out and eventually he'll stop on his own.

I used to throw tantrums as an adult to my husband and after he ignored me enough, I have finally realized that is not the way to communicate with him :)

Try the approach used by Dr. Harvey Karp, author of The Happiest Toddler on the Block. Watch how he gets on the distressed child's wavelength in this and related videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ1428uYs2g&NR=1&a....

I've used this approach with my grandson during his twos-through-fours, and it worked well. He'd calm down, and then I could redirect his attention or offer other suggestions. He seldom had melt-downs over the same "wants" twice, because I learned to avoid his potential trouble spots, taught him ways to express his needs without the tantrum, or do the thousand other techniques moms learn through trial and error.

Here's my "List":

1. Keep in mind that your son is not "trying" to be naughty; he's trying to meet some need, and he has a very poor repertoire of strategies with which to try. Children truly don't want to cause problems or get in trouble if they have any other way at all to meet their own growing need for autonomy, independence, and control of their circumstances. You and I have had decades of practice learning how to meet our own needs in more civilized ways. Your toddler doesn't know any of that yet, and he will probably have a couple more years in which he just won't see very much from your point of view. He can't help it.

2. Dawdling, digging in heels, and even tantrums are often natural outcomes of being more scheduled, pressured or frustrated than the child is able to endure. And some children have a MUCH harder time of it than others.

3. Though your toddler won't ever behave like an adult, plan ahead to eliminate much of the mutual frustration he will experience during the next couple of years. This will be worth the effort – overall, you'll spend LESS time and energy than you would if dealing with behavior that isn't evolving in a positive direction.

4. When he wants something, empathize, big time, and in the child's language, as taught by Dr. Karp. Once your little guy realizes you do care about what he wants, he's more likely to be able to calm down and cooperate with what you need from him.

5. Find ways to say yes. "Yes, you can have a cookie as soon as we finish eating lunch!" "Yes, you can throw your toys – see if you can get them into this basket!" Toddlers hear "NO!" so often, so try to save "no" for those occasions when children are trying something dangerous.

6. Keep it playful, and keep it respectful. Children learn primarily through play and imitation. You may need help with this if your parents didn't model a lighthearted and kind approach when you were little. The book Playful Parenting is a great resource. Your son's sense of humor is developing, crude though it may be.

There will also be times when you must have cooperation, like diapering or trips to the store, so keep a special toy or distraction that he gets to play with only at those times.

7. Here's a big one: give advance notice when you'll want him to be doing anything differently, especially when he's grooving on some activity/play. Children absolutely hate unexpected transitions. With my grandson, we let him know at least a couple of times that a change is coming ("We're going to go to the store / have lunch / take a nap pretty soon." … and then a second alert a minute before making the change.)

8. Whatever the next activity is, make it sound as desirable as possible. Give some detail about the ride in the car, or a favorite food at lunch, or sweet snuggles before nap. Be positive and enthusiastic. And be calm. Desperation will show, and even though he's too young to deliberately engage in a planned power struggle, he will quite naturally sense any cracks in your resolve. And this is where future power struggles truly can begin.

9. Try to keep demands low when he's tired, over-managed, hungry, or sick. He won't have any emotional reserves left with which to cooperate.

10. Get to know his most likely trouble-spots, and plan ahead. For many kids, it's when they want some temptation they've seen. So keep those things out of sight when possible. Be prepared with a distraction – for example, another toy he likes when you have to take some fascinating object away, or a healthy treat when he wants a junky snack. Laughter, introducing a new game, a few twirls and bounces, hugs or tickles, a goofy song, can help break into his determination to get something he wants (that short attention span is both a curse and a blessing). And those interactions will give him some of the positive strokes he might be missing now that a new baby is distracting you more.

11. Avoid bribes, but let him work toward occasional rewards. Don't try to buy cooperation with "IF you'll do X, we'll let you have Y." Instead, phrase it as if he gets to assist in advancing something good for himself: "Hey, as soon as you help me get X done, then we get to do Y." It sounds like a small distinction, but it's important. It gives the child a chance to cooperate in what feels like choice, even when there's no "if" about it.

12. Encourage lots and lots of physical activity during the day, in natural daylight, as much as possible. Time outdoors in nature is calming for most children. If he has pent-up energy, it will have to come out some way, and unless channeled in a positive direction, it will likely to add to both your stress and his. And limit TV time – the passive receptivity to all that fast editing seriously interferes with children's normal brainwave patterns, making focus and engagement in the "real" world more difficult.

13. Whatever you are trying to teach will need to be repeated hundreds of times over the next few years. That's completely normal. Attention spans and impulse control are extremely limited in toddlers.

14. Spanking and time-outs don't work for every kid, and will sometimes actually backfire over time. Children may be annoyed, scared, shocked, or shamed into compliance, but behaving for the sake of avoiding discomfort is NOT the same thing as developing an internalized sense of "good." Consistent, calm guidance and modeling what you DO want from him will work better in the long run than punishing for what you DON'T want him to do. See more on this by googling The Science of Parenting or Emotion Coaching.

15. Pay attention to what you love and appreciate about your son, and make sure he knows. Treat him with calm and respectful authority. Children crave attention and approval, and if he knows you're noticing his good moments, he'll try to create more of them.

Wishing you well!

Yes, 3 was great birthcontrol. 10 is as well, so gear up!!!!!!!!

Well, this is going to seem CRAZY but I have 2 pieces of advice for you.

1. SAY YES.
No, he can't hit his brother or do anything else he probably wants to do at 3.
But, what can he do? Kids that age are CRAVING independence and will literally stop their behavior and do something else if you give them a positive direction.

Cookie for breakfast? 'ABSOLUTELY. Eat these eggs and drink this glass of milk and at 9:00 you can have 1/2 a cookie'.
Notice - you actually said "No you can't have a cookie for breakfast", but he isn't going to hear that. He heard you say yes and then what you WANT him to do.

Owen don't hit your brother. "Owen, please color me a picture - brothers are not for hitting" or "Owen, look at your brother instead of touching"
This is a tricky one, because you have to protect your younger one. but you are reacting with emotion and punishment. Understandable, yes. But does it teach him what you WANT him to do? Or just tell him that what he is doing is wrong?

2. LOWER your voice when he RAISES his. It seems counterintuitive, but it will actually work. My whole entire family shut up last night to listen to that silly chevy commerical where she is whispering because the baby is asleep.
It's actually human nature to listen to what someone says IF they are quieter than you. It's also human nature to talk louder if you think you aren't being heard. so, you have throw off the balance and go AGAINST your human nature (to talk over him) so he can go WITH his human nature of being quiet to listen to what you have to say.

Three is super tough. Especially if the sibling is younger and he's just now recognizing that on top of all the stuff he can't do.... he also can't have mommy all to himself.

Good Luck!

At this age:
1) Their communication is not articulate
2) their emotions are not even fully developed
3) Hence, they cannot be articulate about how they feel or may not even know, how they feel.
4) they react, to things or frustrations
5) They need to be 'taught' the words for feelings and how to express that.... good or bad feelings. ie: I am happy, I am grumpy, I am frustrated, I am hungry, I am tired, I am sad etc.
6) Their impulse-control is not even fully developed yet.

Their motor-skills are also developing.

They cannot precisely manage their emotions and have no coping-skills yet. It has to be 'taught' to them.

Problem-solving is not even fully developed yet. THAT has to be 'taught' to a child as well.
These things, are not 'automatic' 'skills' a child knows. Some adults don't even have those skills.
It needs to be taught... to them.

Since 2 years old, I have taught my kids names for their feelings, how to say it, how to ask for help, how to 'cope', how to problem-solve. It takes time and is like a rock collecting moss. IN time, they will gain, more skill AND "mastery"....in it.

My son is now 4 years old... and he KNOWS his feelings and his needs. He knows, the difference between feeling "frustrated" and him feeling "irritated" or "grumpy." He says it. Once I told him "Are you irritated?" And he said "NO Mommy, I am frustrated...." He knew. Then he could communicate that to me.
And I instill a sense of "Teamwork" with my kids. IF they feel irked/grumpy... they know that "we" will work on it. They can ask for help, and 'we' will try alternative ways of doing something to 'problem-solve' it.

IF my kids, are irked, and want to be left alone instead of my interfering, they know that too. They will say "I am grumpy, I want to be left alone.... I'll tell you when I feel better..." for example.

These things, helps a child, to manage, and to KNOW Themselves. In time, it helps them gain competence... in managing difficulty or with their emotions AND in communicating it. WITH their parents.

Thus, sure there are punishments and discipline. But unless you 'teach' a child HOW to "cope".... punishments and discipline... is not full circle... not teaching them anything. Except what they can or cannot do, per the tolerance of their parents.

You need to 'Teach" a child SKILLS... in managing, their developing emotions and communication of it, and coping-skills.
Without that, it is only frustration.
Again, some adults don't even know how to do that.

Also, what really helps... is: kids at this age, especially boys, they NEED to get out and do physically active things. They are like wild young colts. They NEED runaround time. They are very physical from this age. It helps to keep them even keeled. And to release pent-up feelings. I do that with my son, every morning. It really helps.

AND having a daily "routine" helps too. And naps.
When my son does not nap, he is a total tired TROLL. He does not last all day without a nap. Yes, at his age of 4, my son still naps everyday. It helps his disposition and his tolerance too. Toward me.

all the best,
Susan

do yourself a favor and take the "Love and Logic" series. There are books, and there are classes too. See what you can find in your area. This program really helped us, and worked.

pssst...... it works on husbands and bosses too.

I've read two books - Brain Rules for Babies and Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline, that gave very similiar suggestions for tantrums and have worked well with my two year old son.

Tantrums: Name the feeling/emotion for him, and tell him why he is feeling that way in an empathetic tone. It might sound like this "Ohhh... Owen feels mad and sad! Owen feels bad because he threw a toy and mommy said No. Owen just wanted to play but mommy said no. Owen feels bad inside. He feels really bad." It sounds goofy and silly, but doing that has really started to work with my son. When you are doing it, think in your head of a time YOU were that upset about something, and how nice it was to have someone just be sympathetic. If you were that upset and got yelled at, it makes you even MORE upset.

If he calms down, enough, you can have him say "I feel mad" and explain that all people feel mad sometimes. I taught my son the word frustrated while we were waiting for a red light to turn. THe other day when I was changing his diaper, he said "I feel frustrated because I cant get down" instead of kicking and screaming and biting.

Definitely do timeout for two or three minutes for things you have made it clear he cannot do - and where you have made it clear the consequence is timeout. Say - "you are going to timeout because you hit your brother. Hitting hurts." My son needs to sit for two minutes, if he gets out, he gets another minute. If he gets out again, I take a FAVORITE toy and put it on a shelf for the rest of the day, where he can see it and not get it. I dont yell, or lose my temper, I am just very matter of fact - if you dont stay in timeout, this will happen. If I cant stop myself from being bad, and letting it show, I have my husband take over (if he is home).

When my son gets out of timeout, he tells me why he went to time out (ex. hitting) and what he could do instead - give sibling a different toy to play with, use words to tell he is mad, etc. He then needs to apoligise.

The ignoring did NOT work for me - my son would scream 30 minutes or more until he was sick. And think - what if you were really upset about something your husband thought was unimportant, and he just left you alone crying and screamin in the kitchen? Spanking never worked either - it made my son more defiant and ready to dig in for a fight.

Just to be clear, there are still consequences and, if it is a consequence, I do NOT relent no matter how much crying is going on - I am just empathetic to his feelings. When I take a toy, he is devastated, and I sympathize with him, but do not give it back or try to make it better by giving him food or other toys.

Try those books out - they are great!

Your son is upset about something, so he hits his brother, that didn't get your attention, he throws his toys, that didn't get your attention, then you tell him he cannot have something he really wants. I would be unhappy too and then mommy tells me to go cool out upstairs in my room, still didn't pay me any attention. I wonder how long she is going to let me stay up here? I want to play but she won't let me.

J., your son is trying to get your attention so he throws tantrums. Try re-directing, distracting and showing him what the better way is. He is testing his independence and timeouts are not effective at this age. Get your son, give him a hug and find an alternative for him. Best of luck.

A nice spanking would probably work.

The one thing I would not do is to send the boy to his room for his time-out. I think it's much better to have a time out place where you can observe him. I don't call it time-out to the kids, but simply tell them that they need to sit for a while until they are calm and can play or act in an appropriate manner. Once he has calmed down, don't let him simply go back to playing, but have a conversation with him regarding the reason he was sitting out and what he might be able to do to avoid this in the future. Kids hate to have to talk with their parents about such things, and he will wiggle and resist, but I think it's the most important part of discipline.

Well I second everything Peg wrote. Need I say more. I did just want to let you know my son was just like this and we couldn't have another baby for 5 years. He was so challenging I thanked the Lord every month I wasn't caring for another baby. It lasted till about 5 years old with gradually longer calm periods. There is one particular episode I'll never forget. He had major temper tantrum at a book fair where he didn't get what he wanted ( I'd set a limit on what he could get) A well intentioned lady tried to give the item to him for free ( I said no way) . We had to sit in the parking lot for what seemed like forever because I couldn't force my wild ,screaming, animal child into his car seat. Some how he finally calmed and got in his car seat. I I get in the car with tears in my eyes ,beat down, as I second guessed myself like crazy. Was I really cut out for this job of motherhood. I took deep breaths and we drove down the road and within 5 minutes he says"Mama.....I love you". It was so deep and I felt it come from a place where he was feeling loved and secure. He needed me to set and hold boundaries. He felt loved after all that hoopla. He loved me. My boy gave me a run for my sanity those early years. I felt like I was preparing for battle everyday only my armor was firm boundaries,love, and selflessness. And now he's 11 years old and honestly an outstanding person. You'd never know he gave us such grief as a little one. He's my star. And yours is (will be) too! Just hang in there and follow Pegs plan . It works! I never read the book she recommended but I did read Easy to love ,difficult to discipline . Love and Logic and Positive Discipline. Read ,read ,read. It helps to keep you fresh. Time outs did not work for my boy. Finding the positive ,picking my battles, and trying not to say the word No ( that word was a battle cry to him). Oh, also Quality time was the key to his heart. If he was misbehaving I could almost always attribute it to the need to have quality time with us. We'd say his love tank was getting empty. I've also come to the opinion that the tougher they are to start, the sweeter they are in the end. Sounds like you got yourself a future sweetie.

Sometimes a cookie at breakfast is okay. Oatmeal Raisin is just the same as Raisin Bran cereal.

When he's having a meltdown, take him a cup of water or juice. This will help him calm down and return to normal faster.

M.

Stay strong! Be consistent. Don't train him that he can get his way.
It only SEEMS like forever!

Before you know it he'll be whining for a cell phone and a car!
Bwah hahahahahahaha!

Check out Beyondconsequences.com & thepostinstitute.com for positive parenting strategies that used Time In rather than Time Out which can make the child feel abandoned. If they seem panicked. It is because they are panicking & scared.

I love this post- I'm SO there!!!!

My daughter cries herself into tizzies too. When she calms down I explain what TO do in a simple sentance. "Take a sip out of the cup." and sometimes if its a really simple task I'll ask her to repeat what I said.

If its a mess being made, I found that having her help me clean it up is just as effective as saying why it was wrong.

HANG IN THERE!! Fingers crossed that we (us and the kids haha) make it through. Hope this helps!

Dr. Sears has excellent expert advice for this stage:

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/6/T060100.asp

especially if you scroll down to "bothersome behavior"

I wonder the same thing, and my son is 4 1/2. Usually, I can head off the tantrum, but in those instances where one gets going, he usually ends upstairs in his room. I tell him calmly (or sometimes not so calmly) that he can come down when he's done crying. For some reason, crying is a HUGE trigger for my temper, so I tell him to go upstairs where I can hear him, and he can come down when he's calm again. 9 times out of 10 we talk about what caused it and what we both could have done differently to avoid it, but's also 18 months older than your son and at a completely different developmental level. I will say, however, that the tantrums have happened more frequently since his sister was born 15 months ago! Don't know if that helps any, but at least you know that you aren't alone! :)

I haven't read the other answers, so this may be redundant, but we use the Magic 123 method for our 3yr old. We used to do what the supernanny did, always explaining why he was in time out, etc, but it wasn't working. Now, we just count him and we rarely get to 3. I would highly recommend that book. The hardest thing is to not talk to them-- esp after trying talking to them for so long. But it really can work! Good luck!

In my head the terrible twos should be renamed terrible threes, mine were all much worse at three, For my first child the book 1-2-3 Magic worked, for my third child Happiest Toddler on the Block by H Karp worked. Nothing worked for child number two but (maybe cuz I was going thru a divorce, becoming a single mom and re-entering work force and wasnt consistent) or maybe it's that rule difficult baby/toddler = easy teenager! she was an easy teen!

My second child, my DS is three and has these. Regardless of talking it just escalates. I let him throw his tantrums in a safe spot so he doesn't hurt himself until he can calm down on his own. When he does he is more reasonable. At that age their thoughts still have not caught up with their language and they still get easily frustrated. I have no doubt when I get home tonight he'll have a trantrum of some sort. LOL :)

Hi J.,
I read a few of your responses and it looks like you have plenty of advise, but I can't help but to add another thought or two, hopefully they will encourage you more.
My daughter is also 3. I agree with another post about not putting them in their room for TO (Time Out), but my reason is that I want her room to be a good place for her to go, not where she goes to be punished. I DO however send her to her room when she starts to throw a tantrum. When it starts (the fake cry that says "I'm not getting what I want!"; I calmly walk (or carry) her to her room while saying, “I see you are upset, and that's okay, but you need to cry about that in your room. You may come out when you are finished.” It took a while, but now when it starts I ask her if she needs to go to her room and she stops and says, in a perfectly normal voice, "No, I'm done".
In my quest to learn how to be the best mom I can to her, I've learned that I need to care for myself first. I have to grow up and be the adult. No one can make me feel anything without my permission, and to give my toddler the power to “push me to the edge” or expect her to behave in a way to bring me back from it is too much responsibility for her.
Not to over simplify, but in a nutshell, the job of a parent is to calmly set and enforce boundaries; model desired behavior; teach/coach problem solving & how to process emotions and provide a safe place to fail. Yes, fail. Nothing teaches us better or more effectively than to suffer the consequences of our choices.
I've read many good books and I too encourage you to READ everything you can get your hands on. Don't feel pressured to use every idea from any one book. Pick and choose the best tips for you and your child. So far the ones I like the most are: The Baby Whisperer (there's one for through the toddler years.); Love and Logic; Scream Free Parenting.
Lastly, I want to encourage you to get an MP3 player and listen to your books! It’s the best thing I’ve done for myself! Not only am I taking in all this information in a more timely manner, but I find that it’s a great way to multi-task chores, reading and even get a moment to myself.
Cheers! Best wishes.

I just asked this question a few days ago, only my child is even becoming violent during these tantrums. Anyway, just wanted to let you know you're not alone! It's an AWFUL phase! The worst in my opinion!!!
Good luck!
Lynsey