Twice Exceptional Child - Mechanicsburg,PA

I will tell you what I decided on my own, employers don't give out or give a rat's butt about IEPs! I could have got accommodations in college and graduated with a 4.0 and then lacked any coping skills to hold a job. Instead I graduated with a 3.8 and did it without anyone holding my hand.

My older daughter graduates this spring with a 3.9, again no IEP, no hand holding. She has always held down jobs well beyond the norm for kids her age.

So yes if a GPA is all that matters to you then go ahead and get the IEP, if life in aggregate means more then don't handicap your son with the IEP.

Look at it this way, you are running a race, someone moves the finish line up just for you and by crossing it first you still win, does that drive you to finish the race with everyone else?

Oh I also want to add I never allowed IEPs, nor did they want them, because it is easier to help them learn good study techniques while they are still at home. So another benefit to not getting one is he will be able to handle college. Shame you don't live in Cincinnati, my daughter loves helping kids with ADD learn how to learn. Then again one of my pet projects too.

If you did not get this from my words IEPs are the disability not the ADD.

Since I didn't mention it though it should be obvious every member of my family, sans my ex, are ADD.

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I think it all depends on what you want to teach him. Do grades really matter? Do bad grades hold back exceptional people that test well? Is getting into a Harvard or Yale essential to his life happiness? Is your worth dependent on grades?

What will make him happy? I don't believe in grades, I think they are stupid, stressing causing mechanisms that have very little to do with learning (actually, all the research on this subject leads to this conclusion, I have a Ph.D in Ed Policy).

How about, instead of looking at this as him needing accommodations, how about helping him figure out a way to better organize? That seems to be the problem here. I'm sure he can handle it on his own, with the added help of some new organizers and a system of approaching all his home work.

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Question for you - why is he taking AP as a freshman? My stepkids have both done AP and I took AP myself. Many schools won't allow frosh to take AP. They're tough. Is he doing alright there or is he struggling under the workload? Is he planning to take more AP in the future (some schools have traded in Honors for AP)?

I don't have answers for you regarding the ADHD, but I do think that you are right to be thinking about it even if you don't use an IEP. Honestly, my nephew tried to make it without any medications and any accommodations or any help and he ended up leaving school (and getting a GED instead). He did swimmingly in summer school...but failed everything the rest of the year. I don't know all his parents tried, but maybe there are alternative education options for him that you should explore. Do his teachers put things online? Many times my SD can check EdLine and find out her work, or call classmates. Her only problem is being forgetful, and EdLine's saved her often. Or can you speak to the teachers and talk to them about it? They know he's doing the wrong work or missing assignments and maybe they need to know why and maybe they've been down that road before and have ideas.

Frankly, the transition to HS (or HS to college) can be hard for many kids. Is it his ADHD or being 14? My SD used to rush her work and HS teachers didn't give her the slack that MS teachers did. My niece won a writing competition....and nearly didn't graduate because she didn't turn in work, and she didn't have any additional problems. She was just not organized and a little lazy. She had to take summer school. Really smart kids can do really dumb things, with or without anything else going on.

Sometimes, you need to sit down with your kid and say, "It's not that I don't believe in you, but everybody needs an extra oar sometimes. Let's work together to get this boat going the right way." There have been times when the sks were relieved that we offered an oar because they were going backwards and didn't know how to handle it. That's part of what parents are FOR.

Friend of ours' son went to a college program that was geared toward students with ADD/ADHD. I could ask which one, but you can probably Google it. It was in part to help them cope their first year and get them on their feet with skills they could use down the road. Eventually he will have to figure out what works for him.

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@AV - When I was in school, there was an AP English class for each grade - you had to take it each year to be able to take it as a senior and potentially test to get college credit. It just as easily could have been called Honors English.

Many schools now have it set up that you can view their assignments and homework daily on-line. That might help in being able to keep track of what he is actually supposed to get done.

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You are in a tough spot, I"m not sure what I would do either. I just wanted to offer you a little support. You are doing a great job, keep trying to work with him at writing things down and remembering on his own. Maybe get him a homework planner and start a habbit of you checking it everyday, so that eventually (hopefully within the next 4 years!) it will be so automatic to him to write down something at the end of each class that he won't even have to think about it by the time college comes around. At least in college most professors will give out a list of dates that everything is due right at the begining of the semester, so he can write it all out in the beginingin and then check what needs to be done each day.

Also another poster mentioned that being 'twice exceptional" was blowing smoke up you hiney. I'm sure you meant that gifted is exceptional education as well as ADHD being exceptional education. Hince the twice. I agree with you and rude people should keep comments to themselves. I wonder what it would be like to be able to fix everyone. :) must be nice.

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I think he sounds like my 9yr old, who has Aspergers and is in gifted ed classes and excelling in school. He has a homework book and his teachers remind him (and the other students) to write things down as they are talked about in class, and he is so much better at it now than ever before. This year he's only needed the regular teacher to entire class reminders.

Would something like that work for him? Would the teachers cooperate in making sure he writes it down?

The great thing about IEPs is that you review them every year. Just because your son might need an accommodation this year, doesn't mean he'll need one next year.

I say go for it. You can always drop it.

Your son has a lot on his plate and needs some help - he's still a kid and not in the "real world" just yet. I think if he can establish some homework organizational habits NOW, he'll have an easier time later on in life.

Good luck!

Many boys at his age aren't well-organized.

Is your son okay with a little micromanagement? Most kids aren't, but maybe your son won't mind if you double-check with teachers about assignments, etc., till he gets on top of it.

As far as getting minimal credit for the big project: I think you should talk to the teacher. In 9th grade, if he actually does the work, and does it well, but does it on the wrong chapters, the teacher should give him full credit for it. Any teacher who won't IMO isn't a very good teacher.

Get the IEP for his ADHD. My daughter had a gifted level IQ which we have watched disappear. We had her in a private school which catered to kids with an advanced IQ. They did not have a program for IEPs. We watched her decline to just "surviving" which developed into floundering. Social problems came next as she decided she was not as "good" as the other kids. She is in public school now. This is the second year for her IEP. She has at least improved back to the level of surviving. But her grades are not what they could be. One reason for this is missed assignments. She also forgets to write them down, or forgets to do them. We also have issues now with tests as she cannot spit back to you what she has learned. Part of this is the ongoing issue that she feels she is not good enough and can't do it. Get the IEP for your son's ADHD. Your son deserves everything you can do to insure his self image and future success.

His GIEP should be enough to include accommodations for his second exceptionality. Please talk to his gifted teacher about adding some help to his GIEP. It's a binding document like an IEP and truly he doesn't need to have one of each.
Special ed law seems to have more potency than gifted law though, and should your teachers not give him the proper consideration because it's j'just in his GIEP, than open up a chapter 15, which does what an IEP does without all of the IEP stuff. It's just as legal as an IEP but doesn't have the full label of special education. If it's a labeling you are trying to avoid.
Twice exceptionals are quite common, though more-so with gifted and Asbergers, so this is completely normal and your district should be able to handle your child and his needs within his GIEP.
good luck!

Yes - get the IEP. As the parent, you always have the option to discontinue any accommodations. As a 'beginner' parent (my smart son is only in pre-K), I've already agreed to get an IEP in place for him for his speech. As you probably know, your son will be assessed, the findings reviewed with you, and a potential action plan created. However, as the parent, you have to agree to the actual items in the action plan and, as stated above, have the right to request a re-evaluation or complete discontinuation at any time. I think it's worth it for at least a test run. If there's no difference after this year, you can always discontinue.

My recommendation would be to get the IEP. I am a college professor and legally I can only provide accomodations to students who provide written documentation of needed accomodations. Sometimes, students choose not to ask for accomodations in my class, but without the written documentation I can not provide any accomodations. Colleges can do the screenings for learning disabilities and recommendations, but by doing it now your son can work to his fullest potential now. And, thinking ahead, if he needs extended testing time or decreased distractions during testing, etc., with an IEP he can get these accomodations for the SAT's which will help him in the college application process. The type of accomodations depends on your son's needs. He would go through testing to determine his needs and appropriate accomodations would be recommended.

I wasn't gifted but I would get perfect scores on all tests without studying enjoyed school BUT I never handed in homework at ALL. AT times teachers would pull M. in for meetings letting M. know I could do AP/Honor classes if I handed in homework, but I still never did. I was unorganized and so was my life at home. (when I said no thanks I was allowed to leave class and tutor friends during class, and also I was allowed to sleep in class and eat candy and snacks since my teachers knew I was bored...I went to a catholic school where such things werent allowed normally) Instead I got A's did extra credit when offered J. for fun (unfortunately...that wouldn't go agnst the homework portion of grades) and passed with low b's from all of the 0's from homework. I wish someone would have gotten on M. more and gotten M. organized and helped b/c it does make a diference for scholarships, which colleges you get into, AND MOST importantly even if he goes to college like I did the same problems will carry over and lower his GPA which will lower his value in terms of money and desire in the workplace and make it impossible to get a masters or doctorate. I am still scatter brained, it's like my mind goes a million miles a minute and I can't catch up. I would get him help getting organized now before it affects his future. I too agree with Julie that grades aren't all that matters, BUT they do matter in your 1st 5 years after college in your career. Its the diference between getting te job that can lead to leading a company and making big money (or the job that you most desire if money doesn't matter) or the job that you have to start with very low pay in a job with less opportunity for growth in knowledge and money

Ok, I have no experience in this area, but my gut feeling is to say yes get him the IEP. It might help him learn what accomodations he'll have to make in the future (college, workplace, etc. ) Perhaps the services/plans they provide will be blueprints for what he needs to do on his own in the future. Teaching him what he'll need to do for himself in the future. Good luck.

I would think that if it would benefit him to have all the available options open to him to get his teachers to help him, give him the information in different ways for example, then why wouldn't you do the IEP?

Perhaps if they give his assignments already listed/written instead of him having to write them down while the teacher tells everyone. It would help you to make sure his work is what he is supposed to be doing. I would think the IEP would only benefit him. It would also help his teachers to understand he learns differently. They would still understand he has the higher IQ.

I wouldn't agree with another poster who suggested that an IEP will handicapp your son for life. That's a bit extreme.

It does sound like an IEP will give him the time he needs to adjust to the new requirements.

I would go ahead and hold an ARP and discuss with those involved your concerns. See if you can't work something out on an IEP where his teachers simply offer additional reminders to him - whether verbal to write things down and then they verify he got the correct information (or, even better, ask him to tell them what he wrote down to verify - that's very much like the real world), or as an additional handout that only he gets.

Then, as he gets into the habit of verifying his information - always checking at the end of classes that he has all of his assignements correct, the IEP can be adjusted to require less and less accomodations.

An IEP doesn't mean that he's not going to be held responsible for his own choices, it just means he's going to get a little extra guidance/help to make sure he's learning coping skills for the rest of his life.

Throwing him to the wolves (not that you're doing that) and saying, "well, eventually, you won't have the luxury of accommodations so you don't get them now" doesn't help teach him the skills he needs to cope with everything college and a job will throw at him. An IEP can.

I have a twice exceptional child.
Gifted and ADHD-C.
She is on medication twice a day. Her teachers aware of her ADHD and they adjust accordingly. She's only 4th grade, and grades matter NOW.
My daughter has a check list in the front of her binder with the following on it
" did I write down my homework?"
" Did I write it down correctly?"
" do I have the correct books?"
" did I bring a jacket/hat/gloves or umbrella to school?"
" Do I have my lunch box?"

All the things she needs to remember before she leaves school.
Maybe something like this will help your son.
We do not have an actual IEP for her.