Trial Separation

As a therapist, you are asking questions that you already know the answer to. I'm not going to tell you to pray, but I am going to suggest you get quiet with yourself and ask yourself these questions: What would you tell someone who wrote what you wrote here? What would you wish for her? What would you caution her about? What is this woman's first, second, third priority? Does this woman love herself?

J.

4 moms found this helpful

Your husband is abusive and YOU can't change him! Take care of your self. You will likely need to take care of your 2 boys as well. It doesn't sound like he shows much interest in any of you. Take advantage of the separation. Save as much $ as possible (live w/ relatives if you have to). Get the health care you need -- its not like they can reposess your health -- (My uncle needed heart surgery and still owes thousands, but he is alive, and pays a little at a time.) Try to get free divorce advice. Keep records of your husband's income. Prepare yourself to move on. Your sons don't need to learn from someone who behaves this way (and its likely to get worse!).

3 moms found this helpful

L., your husband does not respect you as a wife, mother, or human in general. Is this how you want your son to treat women? Because even if you try to teach him otherwise, your son will grow up watching his father treat you HORRIBLY and watch you accept it. He will learn that this is acceptable behavior.
Your husband only wants a separation (it is never a trial) because he will not have to be a husband or a father and he will not have to provide for you. File for divorce now and protect your child's future (through child support and alimony) and build a better future for yourself. By the way, have someone with you during the proceedings so you are not railroaded into accepting pennies. Good luck to you.

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Sadly, based on the info you shared it doesn't sound like your husband cares about you. In fact his actions aren't of someone who loves their spouse. So his words and his behavior don't indicate love, in my opinion. I am married to a wonderful loving man, one who puts my needs and well being before his, cares about the health of our children and who would stop at nothing to keep us safe and healthy. However my first husband was quite the opposite in these regards, so I have experienced an unloving man and now a very loving man.

You might want to consider what you truly want for yourself and for your children. You are in a difficult situation and I do wish you the best. Prayer is always good.

Also, don't let him keep you from taking your kids or yourself to the doctor. Just go, you don't need his permission. Stop letting him control you, you will feel a great weight lifted from your shoulders when you do.

2 moms found this helpful

Overall, it sounds like he is to blame. Refusing counseling, wont allow you to use medical insurance, locking you out, etc are all very disrespectful. However, there are always two sides to a story. Being a divorced parent myself, I would say try the trial seperation. If it comes to a divorce, you will know that you tried everything possible to save your marriage. You have to take control of your health. I would see the doctor, pay the $30 yourself and either use condoms or stop having sex period. Whether you stay married or not, NO ONE is worth damaging yourself or your health. You have two little one's to look after. I would say do something soon, it is not healthy for you or your sons. Exert more independence, do not rely on him for babysitting, etc. If possible plan in advance and get a sitter or schedule interviews around their nap time. Good luck if you need anymore advice, email anytime.

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I am very sad for the circumstances you and your children are undergoing right now. It must be very difficult to be able to function effectively in your household. I will not attempt to take sides in who is right/wrong in your marriage, as you can only present things from your perspective in your request. If you knew his perspective, you would not need to ask for advice. I will only try to give my input for you to have additional points to consider. Something that stood out to me in your request for help was that you said that your previous therapist had engaged in unethical conduct. Therefore, it would make sense to me that your husband is reluctant to pursue couple's therapy at this time for just that reason alone. Also, if your entire family are psychotherapists and you are in training to become one as well, that could make your husband feel as if his behavior/actions/conduct is under a microscope all the time. I think that a trial separation would be different from him being gone due to travel for business. You say he is a nice guy who has lately become disrespectful...my question is how long has the disrespect been going on? Could it have been going on since the birth of the children or could he possibly be having an affair? Sometimes men are just not ready to be dads and having a child can change a person. Also, is there a possibility that he might be depressed?

You need to sit down and have some quiet time. You need to figure out something. What would be the ultimate goal of a trial separation in your situation? Would the goal of it be to work on your marital relationship or to go into divorce?

Best of luck,
J.

1 mom found this helpful

Okay, I skim read the other responses and I do not agree with most of them. I think your husband is stressed about finances and it is making him behave badly. There is awful energy in the air about money right now -- dread, fear, the headlines every day only add to the pressure. I think if you had more money he would be more supportive about the doctors, therapists, and whatever else it is you guys need. I don't think that you can afford a separation personally. But I do think that if you AGREE to a separation it will give him some mental and emotional freedom. I doubt it will actually happen because he is going to have to live on people's couches -- he definitely can't afford to spend more money on another place.

I know from your previous posts that this man adores his boys. But even so, it has to be incredibly hard on both of you to have two children who are so young. So much of parenting is just plain awful. The crying, the sleep deprivation, and so much more... It doesn't bring out anyone's personal best. Hopefully, in a few years time, the boys will be easier and the two of you can look back with pride having survived it.

I hope you work it out.

L., you are a bit intimidating with all of your brainy psychoanalyzing. I'm sure it's part of what he loves about you, but it might be a bit much at times. You might want to fall back on some old-fashioned loving. Bake cookies. Clean closets. Rearrange the furniture. Rent some videos (comedies). Stock the house with snack foods he likes. Talk less. Honestly, for all their puffed feathers, men tend to be simple. If they feel comfortable in their home environment, they don't leave.

Wishing you luck!

1 mom found this helpful

Just one question as most have already covered what I would have written. Do you need to have HIS permission to go to the drs? You do have an insurance card yourself, why are you waiting for his response, just GO!!!!!

1 mom found this helpful

Wow...i think your profession is getting in the way of you making good decisions for yourself and children. It seems like you you need to stand up for yourself and do what is best for you as a WOMAN. As a therapist myself, in previous relationship, i found myself finding excuses for some actions done by my ex until he got caught. Sometimes thsi profession can make us oversee the entire picture because we want to be the listeners, and take care of people. We think, how could i let the world know that i failed in the relationship with my profession. We can not be savors of others action. It seems like your husband has unresloved issues. But you can not make him attend therapy. You need to value and respect yourself. Put you foot down and take care of your health. I read many red flag and wish i could highlight them for you. Good luck

1 mom found this helpful

Sorry about your troubles, but it sounds like you need to grip the bull by the horns and get rid of that guy. You don't need live like that and neither do the kids. You said you and your husband are athiests. Well, a little prayer never hurt anybody and this is a great time to get a new and loving boyfriend and his name is Jesus.

1 mom found this helpful

No disrespect, but why do you want to hang on to this abusive relationship? You haven't listed one positive reason to stay married to this man. He doesn't respect you, it sure sounds like he doesn't love you and I'm not sure he even likes you. You deserve better. You deserve to treated with kindness. Marriage shouldn't be a drudge. We all have our ups and downs, but you need some ups in your life. If you hang around for the sake of the children, I have to ask what are you teaching them? Respect yourself enough to leave. You can only change yourself, no one else. I am not a religious person, but I do meditate. You might find it brings you a lot of inner peace and helps sort through tough decisions. As far as staying in touch with his friends and family, that is possible, but don't be surprised when two camps start forming. Not everyone will "chose sides" so to speak, but it happens. Best wishes.

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L.,
You don't need a PhD to figure out that your husband is an a**hole. I cannot believe that there is any justification for giving someone an STD. Under no circumstances should he be allowed to give you a disease. Also, look at how he is abusing you and your childern. Locking you out without food? Refusing medical treatment? Disrespecting you infront of your kids? Wake up! Open your eyes. This is not right and you know this in your heart. You don't need a trial separation, you need a divorce. You need to leave him. This sounds like another woman or women are in the picture.

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Trial separations, for the most part, are for people who want out and are not quite ready to just cold turkey a relationship. They are simply the first step in leaving someone. What they are not, is what people want to think they are, a cooling-off period, or space to think, blah blah blah. My guess would be that very few trial separations lead to people coming back together permanently.

Just reading what you wrote, it sounds like he wants out and you don't. He's already refused counseling or compromises. He disrespects your health and needs. I can understand that you want a mature and positive relationship to evolve from this for family and children. That will be up to you to establish. Please talk to your counselor some more and let them help you continue to clarify your thoughts and decisions at this rough time in your life.

I wish you the best and send many [hugs].

1 mom found this helpful

Wow! Your husband is cheating and its not the first time. Covering up by not letting you use the insurance. Its just a cop-out! keeping you from spending money on your health and your children?? yup something has been going on for a while.

You are co-dependant to a man that has serious issues & who is tired of trying to hide them from you.

You need legal advice and give him the seperation. During this time you need to find a GREAT therapist who is going to tell what you don't want to hear but the truth. You need to find yourself and stop depending on a man that has already left. You need to wake up and guard your chldren of any further unhealthy incidents.

For coming from a family of therapists - then you should know that you are in AN ABUSINVE RELATIONSHIP & a CO-DEPENDANT. Do not try to sugar coat what you already know.

Good luck to you...please seek legal advice before he leaves in financials ruins. Think of your children & your future.

1 mom found this helpful

WHY in the world would you want to stay with a man who has so little value and respect for you, the mother of his children? Forget the trial separation! Go to the doctor like you need to and the brace yourself for a divorce. As the other mother said... he wants out. If you want to keep a positive relationship then you let him be the one who files... you let him be the one who moves out for the trial separation... (which to me is just code for I miss my wild ways and want to be out there having sex with as many people as I want).

Good luck to you and sorry to be so negative, but I don't see a better option when you're dealing with a man like this.

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Hi L.:
First of all,let me say I'm sorry your having to go through this. You won't be the first and certainly not the last. My first thought,was "If your husband is on the road 6 months out of the year,how can he dare categorize you as one who's controlling or manipulative? I can tell you, I couldn't be that understanding,or tolerant being left to care for the children on my own. Men feel they have to have A reason for everything.Even if they have to (Make Something Up)You must be pretty darn close to perfection,for him to come up with a lame one like that.He could have used anything else,and someone may have bought it.Do you really think that anyone that knows his lifestyle will believe for a second that you could be manipulative? Your husbands main concern should be your health and well being,no matter the cost.Your the mother of his children,your his partner in life. You can't force him to love you, L.. He sounds like hes changed his feelings about marriage and your relationship.Get the separation,and as long as the children continue to have structure in their lives. building their relationship with their father and retaining close ties with relatives,they should develop just fine.Keep in mind,that your children are happiest,when they see you happy.So Dear,Go grab some for yourself.I wish you and your darlin kids the best. J. M

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You have the answers you seek. If a patient came to you with this story, what advice would you give her? Physician, heal thyself.

Best of luck to you and your precious boys.

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If he won't seek help it's because he doesn't want to. He is abusing you mentally. I say get out and move on. Good luck..

1 mom found this helpful

L., I truly feel for you. I was in a similar situation. My husband would frequently work out of town. He also became angry, inconsiderate, insulting and even mean. I didn't think he was cheating on me but I found out he was and it continued for longer than I thought.

I would be very surprised if your husband wasn't cheating, especially considering the on-the-road-musician's life style. Some people don't want to be the "bad guy" and break up. Instead they treat you in such a bad way that you'll want to leave. Could he be doing that? You already effectively have a continual trial seperation so it would be the precurser to a divorce.

As far as my husband goes, he finally ended the affair and made up his mind to be a part of the family, although probably more for the kids than me. Since then he's been amazingly nice, considerate, pleasant, supportive and even fun. We get a long so much better now but it only happened because he decided to change. As a result I've been nicer and more considerate too (we both had our issues that contributed to an unhappy marriage).

Based on my experience, it doesn't look like your husband wants to change his behavior and is looking for an excuse to get out. Do what is best for you and your kids and let him deal with his own self. He will eventually realize and likely regret what he has lost. In the meantime you deserve respect and happiness and your kids deserve to see that.

Good luck. It's a difficult time. If you need a shoulder to cry on please email me and we can talk.

1 mom found this helpful

I basically agree with all the moms here. A separation when your husband is already gone so often will not change anything. You won't miss each other, you're already used to not being in each other's company. I think that you have a lot of questions that need to be answered both by your husband and by yourself.

You need to ask yourself the following:

1. Is your marriage worth fighting for?
2. If it is worth it, you must ask yourself why?

You said : I generally consider my husband a faithful, "nice guy," but I feel as though lately he has become disrespectful, insulting and extremely inflexible. "

You need to have some private time with you husband to ask him:

1. What happened to the nice guy? What changed him?
2. What is really going on? Blaming you for everything and saying that you are controlling is not an answer. Something is making him nasty.
3. Does he just completely want out of the relationship? A separation is one step closer to a divorce. A separation won't fix you. Does he want a divorce?
4. Will he wear condoms? Your sex life shouldn't be so non-existant if you are going to stay married.
5. Even if he doesn't want to see a therapist or read self-help books, is he willing to change to make things better?

You have a lot of soul searching to do. If your husband isn't willing to work on things, then let him go. You deserve to be loved and respected, you must know that.

And please go to the doctor, you don't need his permission to take care of your health.

I wish you the best, I know it can't be easy.

1 mom found this helpful

Hi L.,

My heart goes out to you as it is clear from your email that you are in a really difficult situation. My advice is that the only thing you can do at this point is take proactive care and responsibility for yourself and your children. Your husband ultimately has the right to do whatever he wants and it sounds as if he is communicating to you that he is not committed to being a good partner in your marriage. Really letting go and allowing him to "be on his own" is very likely the only way that he can have the mental and emotional space he needs to sort our whatever is causing him to resist being a good and committed partner. Being "separated" is quite different than being away on road trips through the year--being separated means something and it will have an unknown, hopefully healing, effect on both of you. Having gone through a divorce, which was the most difficult thing I have ever gone through, I know how scary and uncertain this period is and that with children the desire to "keep it all together" is such a strong force that nothing else seems as important. However you describe a home situation that is very unhappy (bordering on abusive), which is undoubtedly causing tremendous strain on your kids so creating *real space* for you and your husband to work out individually what's important to you and then be able to come to some agreement about your relationship is likely the right and necessary thing to do. You can create a workable partnership and cooperative/shared parenting strategy even if you are not "together". It really sounds to me like you need to *stop resisting* and trying to make your husband behave differently (remember "what you resist, persists"). Right or wrong, your husband has it in his head that you are trying to control and manipulate him and this will not change until you radically alter your attachment to his behavior and the way in which you interact with him. You may not be able to see it now, but you actually need to step back and get some space for yourself too. Ultimately it sounds to me like a "trial separation" is the best possible course and you can approach all of it with honesty, openness and active communication so everyone understands that you are operating in integrity and doing what's best for your family (this includes communicating proactively with your in-laws, children and other family and friends). Just remember that "this too shall pass" and be open to the very real possibility that "separating" may actually be the path to bringing your family back to together.

Best of luck,
K.

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Hey Lynn,

I'm 45 and have two kids, 18 and 17. As I am reading your article about what is going on in your life right now, I can't help but think that you are a little paranoid and close to obsessive about catching something if you have sex with your husband. But you married him anyway, knowing what it is he does and that he had a STD when you met him. So here's the thing, did you think any of this was going to change. He sounds misrable and you sound like you don't trust him at all. Forcing him to stay is the worst thing you could do, let him go and find out what this marriage really means to you and give him the chance to find out as well. Men, don't like to be worsed to do things and I don't think you would like it if he did it to you. Marriage, is trusting, communicating, working to together and sacrificing. Nagging is not going to get you what you want. I think the separation sounds like you both need it. Good Luck.

nessa

Dr. Laura Schlesinger has 2 books that would probably help you. For you...The proper care and feeding of husbands and for him...the proper care and feeding of marriage. good luck...If your offended by Dr.Laura she's pretty conservative I know and you might not like what she says all the time but men time and time seem to agree with her and what they need maybe you should revisit her advice.

Hi L.,

It sounds pretty rough. I am sorry to hear you are going through all of this, however we do know that life does bring these things about for us sometimes.

As I read your post, I wonder what is the question, then I get to the bottom and find you do have some specific questions. I say that in sarcasm, because based on the information provided, your husband sounds very selfish and disrespectful to you. I am no therapist of any sort, but you must know you can't help those who don't want to be helped. You sound like you have done everything you can to clean things up for him and either the relationship has gone so sour or he is just an #$@% and can't realize that you are trying...can't see the forest through the trees. In any event, personally when things hit that point, I have to begin telling myself there is no more I can do and I will have to prepare mentally and financially to go on my own. You must be preparing, as you are going to do a trial separation, but I hear that glimmer of hope in your post.

In my view, a trial separation tells people they are not together at the moment and if something happens, let it happen as they have no obligation to the other partner. In my view, either work it out or go through with the real thing. You ask will the separation help anything due to his career, I don't see how it will. I would imagine, he is in his artistic mode and not thinking about much while he is playing, I assume they have practice and the band hangs out together a lot in preparation for their next gig. It is nice to work in the field that you love, therefore, he probably will not be thinking much about the family and the problems he will have to face back at home. I would love to tell you different, but I love shooting photography. When I am shooting photography, there is nothing else on my mind. I am just concerned with doing the best at what I do.

I truly think your heart is in the right place, but it takes two. With that said, you can only speak and do for yourself. What he does and how he reacts (no matter what), you have no control over. Do what you do anyway. Be you and be true.

Best of luck to you.
C.

L.,
sounds like to me that ur husband feels like ur always analyzing him, coming from a pyschology family background. you're smarter than he and you know what to do as a wife to fix the marriage. in other words ur too perfect. he will never get passed this, being a 'dr. phill' pretty soon, you will be helping others. doing all these mean things to you is the only way you cant fix or analyze your way out of it. let him go. for a smart person ur really dumb if u cant see this.

L.

Although you gave us a lot of information, as a therapist you know that its only one side of the story and impossible to say what is driving your husband. Here are options and I'm sure you've thought about them yourself, but I'm going to write them here because you need to look at them.

If your husband is exactly the way you say he is then he needs professional help. You need to protect your children. You are as guilty or more guilty than he is to stay in that marriage and subject your children to that when you KNOW it's not right.

If you are sugar coating your role in the problems, meaning you have done something (an affair, show massive amounts of disrespect...) to make him so angry with you and you want to save your marriage, then you probably should read The Care and Feeding of Husbands.

Its very possible he resents your pursuing a professional career, feels that he is always being analyzed. In short you emasculate him every day in his eyes. If he feels that way you can see how not letting you get treatment is a way of "paying you back".

So unless he's sick, where-in you should get you and your kids the heck out. You can either expect to go on like this or divorce or you can try to make it work by forgetting about your career and be the wife and mother he wants. It's really that simple. What can't happen in this situation is for you to get everything you want on your terms. Its unreasonable to expect.

I hope you understand that I say this not to be "mean" but to honestly help. I know in my own life I have gone in denial of things and only after many years and disappointment did I realize I knew what the problem was, I just wasn't willing to accept it and act on it. If I had it would have been MUCH easier.

With much love

K.

HI L.,

I am so sorry to hear that you are going through this.
Please call Dr. Margaret Paul and check our her website www.InnerBonding.com

You can't change your husband, but you can save yourself.

Good luck,
G.

It's kind of hard to believe that you would need to ask anyone for advice on this. Trial separation? You are already separated. This man is so beyond repair. Get out of this relationship while you still have a shred of sanity.

Im so sorry. It truly sounds like he no longer respects you, and if that is the case, why do you want him around? To be disrespectful and hateful towards you? To not care about anyone besides himself? To show your boys how to treat women? It isn't fair, it totally and completely sucks, but it seems over to me, at least until he can figure out what he really wants. It almost sounds like your afraid to let go because "i have training and knowledge in this, I should be able to fix it" and you know, you can't "fix" somebody, you can only change your own behavior and attitude. Something (or someone) has happened and until he deals with it, he isn't going to be the loving husband and father you wish him to be. I hope I am not being too harsh or sound uncaring, I really feel horrible for you and your boys, and even your husband who obviously is really struggling with something/s right now. Hugs, and good luck to you all, but PLEASE, don't allow anymore cruelty in your home, and denying your wife and son food and proper healthcare is cruel. Your boys deserve better!

Wow, where do I begin? First off, I was in a similar abusive marriage for several years. I WASTED those years thinking that if I kept trying hard to make him happy, things would get wonderful. NOTHING worked because he wasn't unhappy with me (though he blamed me for everything going wrong with our marriage and his life, just like yours does) he was unhappy with himself. YOU cannot change that, only your husband can change how he feels about himself. The problem is, some people like feeling miserable and they won't change. I knew a smart, intelligent woman who was a CEO of a rather large company. She stayed in an abusive relationship also, when she had the money to get out. You need to ask yourself some questions here: 1. Why do I want to be in an abusive relationship? 2. Do I really want to wake up in 10 years and still be in this ugly situation? 3. What are my children learning from this? 4. What do I THINK I am getting from this unhappy relationship? 5. Am I embarrased or feel like a failure to admit the marriage didn't work?

If you are really getting your degree, you should know these things but let me list some harsh facts for you:

You cannot fix somebody elses self esteem issues by praising them (adults at least) when they have huge problems.

He is blaming you for everything wrong with the marriage. This makes him feel less guilty because in his mind, it justifies him being so cruel to you. It's called Projection. He is projecting his guilt on to you.

He probably is or has cheated on you. (Sorry, I know this is painful).

You have a loveless marriage....you deserve so much more then this.

IT WILL NOT GET BETTER! Unless he magically realizes he has problems and takes steps to get better. (my ex is doing the same stuff to his second wife).

Listen to you heart/gut instinct and not your intellectual side. I have seen more people get into trouble trying to be "intellectual" about bad situations. It is what it is.

I am not a big fan of divorce, I have seen the negative side of it, believe me. But I am living proof there is a positive side of it. Your husband (I use that term loosely in this case) has given up and is "already gone". He just doesn't have the guts to divorce you. He wants to play victim again have you be the big bad wife, again. How do you want to live your life in the next 10 years?

At the sound of sounding "preachy"...you need to get God into your life. You NEED His help and He will walk through this terrible time with you.

Either way....I will pray for you and your children.

Hugs,
R.

You need to get out of this mess! It doesnt matter what your husband is doing or not doing anymore; you need to get yourself into survival mode with your kids and leave. Everyone deserves to be happy, especially when they are as giving as you seem to be. Your kids deserve to see two happy healthy EQUAL adults contributing to a marriage, so they have a good example of what they want for their own future. This isnt about you anymore, and it certainly isnt about your husband. Those poor babies are going to grow up thinking this is normal, and they will either treat the women in their lives the same way, or they will be too screwed up to even have healthy relationships. Show them that women are strong and leave. Then later on, after you get your bearings, you can show them what a happy mommy looks like when you meet someone who deserves you. It isnt easy, but you owe it to them and to yourself. Go.

Hi L.. I think that if you're husband wants a trial separation, give it to him. Frankly, if it was me being disrespected like that, I would've left him a long time ago. Be strong. If you don't give him this trial separation, nothing will change. AT the very least, you will learn something about yourselves.

L.,
My heart goes out to you. What a painful situation to be in. The most unfortunate thing is that your kids see what is happening to you. They are learning how to treat a woman by seeing the way your husband treats you. Do not allow this. You are being abused and as much as you want to work it out, you can't help someone that doesn't want the help. He is completely disrespectful of you and your children. If he can't pull it together for his kids, he's a lost cause!
Cut him loose immediately. The quicker this happens, the quicker you and your children can begin to heal.
You and your children deserve better than this kind of life.
Sending blessings to you.

L.,
It sounds like your husband is already "gone". He doesn't respect you and isn't very nice to you. You and your kids deserve better. He'll never know what he's missing until he's gone...maybe there will be a reconcilliation, maybe not. But he's already emotionally detached. He doesn't even sound like a good friend, let alone, husband. Why do you WANT HIM? That may be something you need to explore...he's a creep!

If it was me I would tell my husband "Don't let the door hit you in the A__" and welcome the seperation. You are being verbally and emotionally abused by this controlling man. In my opinion he has not been faithful to you as well. Please think about your children and your own well being, not your husbands. Best of luck!

I am sorry for what you are going through! I hope that you can find the strength to get through it and it really sounds best for you and your children should get out of that situation, it doesn't sound healthy. God bless.
J.

Hi L.,

You might be over-thinking this. Remember in algebra 101 how you had to eliminate the extraneous information before you could solve the problem with just what was pertinent?

All the information you shared with us screams that he is an abuser. There is nothing you can say to rationalize his behavior. You may be able to explain why it's justifiable in his mind, based on your psych expertise ... but that is irrelevant.

Your heart cries for love ... and fulfilling the fairy tale we all were spoonfed ... true love endures all. Love does not mean to be a doormat, though. Forgiveness does not mean to develop amnesia or denial, either. It means to learn the lesson and let go of the experience. It means to release negative energy so it does not get stuck in you, and become toxic. You can walk away from someone that seeks to injure you and still want good things for him ... that would still be love ... not the stuff that marriages are made of, but certainly the stuff of religious beliefs, universal truths, cultural mores, etc.

So L., what does your gut say? The brain prattles on with a littany of validations, the heart pines for the love that will grow if only you're patient while he navigates the learning curve ... but your gut, fed by your subconscience, delivers a simple verdict. I think I know what it is telling you and I think it's very scary ... and you want someone, anyone, to throw you a lifeline ... telling you how you can say the magic words to get him to understand what you've been saying all along.

L. ... let your mind babble ... let your heart cry ... sit alone, in a dark room after the children fall to sleep ... feel your feelings and resist all temptation to analyze and label them ... just feel them and let them go ... and after you're in that place, where you are in tune to yourself ... focus on your solar plexus ... and the answer will come to you, without alibi ...

the answer is in you, but it's hard to accept ... I know ...

you can do this ... you can create your peace ...

best wishes

If he won't go to counseling, go without him. There are things you could work on yourself, and forcing him to change won't work.

Are you sure you really want to stay in this relationship? He sounds very selfish. You might try out this separation with an eye to what you want in a divorce.

BTW, you can get a lecture of Dr. John Gottman's book, The Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work, on CD. Maybe he'd listen in the car? Google "Gottman Instute." But honestly, I don't think you can make anyone else do anything they don't want to. You're probably better letting this one go.

So much good luck to you.

Hi L.,
I don't understand why you would want to stay in this relationship. Your husband obviously from what your saying does not respect or care for you. Why would you want your children to grow up to see this unhealthy relationship and possibly repeat this behavior in their own relationships. Please consider moving on........there are other men out there that will care, respect and cherish you and your children.

Hello L.. I have debated for about half an hour about whether or not to write you, and have decided to do so. I wasn't sure if this was a legitimate post or not, but I'm just going to assume that it is, and go from there. Your husband obviously has no respect for you, your health, or your children. The fact that he would put a prospective job on the line for you is inexcusable, first. I'm not sure if maybe he feels your family doesn't need the money (although based on your other examples, I doubt that is the problem) or if he just doesn't want you to work, but whatever the reason, he has made you look bad in front of a potential employer, even if it was just on the phone. The second thing that bothers me is the whole STD thing. If he loved you, he would not put your health in jeopardy. On that note, I'd like to recommend that you go somewhere like Planned Parenthood or something similar, and get treatment for your infection. An untreated infection can turn into something severe. I only am telling you this because I went through it about 16 years ago. A boyfriend of mine, with whom I was exclusive (and thought he was also) gave me an STD. The STD had no symptoms, so I didn't received any treatment, because I didn't know I had it. Somewhere down the line, it developed into PID (Pelvic Inflammatory Disease) and I was rushed to the hospital to have emergency surgery. That emergency surgery required the removal of my right ovary and fallopian tube, because there was so much scare tissue, and they had been damaged. It was then that my doctor told me to cherish the daughter I had, because it would be a miracle if I was ever able to have kids again. Luckily, I was able to have two more, but a friend of mine who had a similar thing happened to her, was left so scarred that she will never have kids again. This is not only an issue if you want more kids, it affects a lot more than that, like your period (intense pain from an egg trying to go to the right, and there is nothing there, so it bumps and bumps.. or getting on the wrong track, etc..)Obviously you want this marriage to work, for some reason. While I am not a fan of divorce (I believe once married, do everything in your power to make it work, with only a few exceptions to that rule) but really, I'd say get out now while you can. The dinner situation bothered me as well, because that just proves his selfishness and childish tendencies. It seems to me like he is doing things to push you away. I know when my daughter's father and I broke up, it was pure torture for me. Before we actually broke up, I, too, tried everything I could think of to make it work. Your story about touching your husbands back reminded me of that time, because when a person is ready to let go of someone, they are just ready, and there really isn't anything you can do about it :( I hope that things work in your favor, but more so I hope that you are able to get out of this relationship. It's not healthy, at all. I don't think a trial separation will work, because it seems like you guys are already doing that. Sometimes a trial separation means (to the partner suggesting it) that they can have their cake and eat it, too, if you know what I mean. It gives them an escape, as well as an outlet (in other people or lifestyles, etc.)and an excuse.

I am so sorry to tell you this. but you would be better off on your own.

This man does not want to make this work at all. He has told you so. Now he is showing you by being disrespectful, rude, unhealthy for you and down right mean.

Do yourself a favor and let him go, he doesn't want you anymore...free yourself so you can concentrate on yourself and your children.

good luck!
-C.

L. E

Like you I am a psychology student, and I can truly feel for you. It appears that your husband does not want any attachments since this seems to interfere with his choice of work. I am very sorry for your predicament, however you may want to go for the trial separation, and if he still wants to be alone give it to him. It is said "if you love someone enough, you will let them go....if he/she returns to you then your relationship is meant to be." Good Luck! I wish you all the best in your decision.

Hire an attorney IMMEDIATELY. Don't feel guilty. You probably feel that you owe your kids a solid two-parent family. You probably feel that you've invested a lot of yourself into the relationship. If you've been the best person you can be, don't blame yourself. What kind of husband locks his wife and child out so that he can eat? You can't make someone participate if they don't want to. It's not easy, but it will be healthier for you and your kids in the long run. I'm all for keeping a marriage and family together, but if you are being emotionally and physically abused, seek legal help now. If you can't afford it, find some kind of legal aid. Go on line for other sources.

Go watch one of Tyler Perry's Madea movies. One of the quotes from the stage play version of "Madea Goes to Jail" is, "If someone wants to walk out of your life, let them go." Madea goes on to say that some people are only meant to be in your life for a season. Folks make a mistake in trying to make seasonal people lifetime people.

In "Diary of a Mad Black Woman" a rich lawyer literally throws his wife out of their mansion so that he can move his girlfriend in. The wife, of course, recovers and finds new love and forgiveness.

Well, this is your real life. Get some legal advice. If your husband won't go to therapy, you go on your own. You probably have more going for you than you give yourself credit.

Dear L. E.

This isn't a trail separation. Your marriage is over!
Therapy will not work when both parties aren't willing to try to save the marriage. It took two to make a marriage, and it took two to break it. No one is perfect, and no one can do it alone. You must learn to LOVE yourself and stop settling for crumbs. That is all your husband has been giving you, and the children. What kind of a man would lock you, and his son out without dinner, and not want you or the children to see a doctor. He is a self centered A--Hole, who only thinks of himself. YOU CAN DO BAD, ALL BY YOURSELF, You don't need a man for that and especially not your hasbeen. Because your HASBEEN hasn't been there for you. The time for reading books to get info on your situation is over. STOP trying to please him, he said "it's too late". STOP being a doormat. He is walking over you, and your children, and you want more? Get some backbone. Love yourself first, Love your children. Help yourself, help your children. Please yourself, please your children. Anyone else outside you and your children, that don't love you and your children, that don't want to help you and your children, that don't want to please you, and your children, you don't need them in your life. You say you are an "atheist", So you were raised as one by your parents, or your husband took you to the dark? I believe in GOD, he is my source, and prayer does work. Take care, God bless. STAND!

E.

Hi... it does sound like your husband is having an affair. After MUCH counseling with my ex in couples and alone, the counselor finally had to say to go ahead and move out and see if my ex wanted a relationship at all, and to let him pursue it if he did. That was the only way to resolve it.

All the counselors we saw agreed on one thing: IF THERE IS ANOTHER PERSON INVOLVED, IT'S OVER unless the cheating party ends the relationship and wants to work on the marriage. Otherwise, it's just over.

From everything in your message, it sounds like it is over for him right now. I'd let it be over and see what he does with the space it creates. That's the only way you can truly see what is really left.

I have a fantastic counselor, Ron Bacaon, ###-###-####, who not only deals with marital things but helps work through ANY type of relationship. He can help you negotiate this to find the truth and encourage the best outcome.

Good luck with it all!

It seems to me that it is too much for you to go through, or even want to stay in the marriage. Get rid of him, and find a man who will respect you and your children. Sounds like he wants out of the marriage big time! Let him loose, you'll all be better off.

Unfortunately, you see very self aware and interested in making your marriage work but for some reason your partner is unwilling/unable to do the same, and since it takes two...regarding your health, of course he should be taking 2 pills a day out of respect for you and your health, bottom line. and you have to respect your health enough to accept no less, because if you do, that's not all him, you've allowed this too. what i mean is, you have some accountability. you can't force him to take the meds, but you have a right to deny sex until takes meds regularly/consistently. but, i think a poor sex life is more indicitive of larger issues. i don't think salvaging your marriage is impossible. obviously it will be way more challenging if your partner isn't yet willing to go to therapy. however, if there are parts of you that believe in him and believe in you as a couple and believe that your marriage is worth fighting for, go for it. all marriages have ups/downs. maybe this is a big down time, but down times can be when the growth takes place. i also support gottman, but if you haven't read How to love your marriage by eve hogan, i highly recommend it! especially helpful in dealing with partners that may not be up for the repair, she has awesome suggestions to get things turned around. good luck!

Dear L. E,
It takes two. You cannot fix your marriage on your own. Your husband has to WANT to work things out too. I think couseling for you is a good idea, but I think you should change your focus to self-esteem. (I don't want to sound critical or mean.) You obviously love your husband more that you love yourself and this should not be.

You also have to consider your boys. Do you really want them to grow up thinking that the way their daddy treats their mother is how ALL women should be treated? Do you want them to loose respect for you? (Just food for thought.)

My advice to you is to give him want he wants...take your kids and RUN!!!!!

Hi there... I have to agree with the others... especially in that a trial is just a step to ease you into divorce. Of course the hard thing is the kids.... would you continue to be with him if it wasn't for them? Maybe he doesn't want therapy because he just wants out? I suppose it would be easier to separate now before the children are older. This is a hard question that only you can really answer, so I wish you luck!

Hi L.,

I'm so sorry that you're going through this right now. I have been in a similar situation and understand how you're feeling. My husband and I did the "trial" think last year, which he took as a green light to start sleeping with a bartender. We did ultimately get back together and tried to work things out, but even with the best therapy, some things can't be fixed. Both parties have to be willing to do ANYTHING to make the marriage work and both parties have to be willing to admit what they have contributed to the break down of your marriage. Unfortunately, most of the time when a spouse asks for a "trial separation," it's just their cowardly way of trying to ease into a more permanent one. It sounds like there are some pretty deep seeded problems going on. I believe that anything can be worked through and overcome, but both people have to be in it100%. My husband and I were in therapy for 6 years and it was all a waste of time because he was incapable of speaking the truth.

If you want to know how to behave during this separation, there is a website you can go to. It's called survivinginfidelity.com, and it's for people who are surviving affairs, but there are some tools that you can use. Once you are on the site, you can go to their FAQ section and there is question about something called "the 180" What it is is a guildline for how to behave during this time. It's very specific on what you should do and what you shouldn't do. It's also very effective in throwing the leaving spouse off their game!

If you ever want to contact me to talk, I'm at ____@____.com. I've been dealing with this for so long now that I feel like an expert! I've been trying to get a support group going as well.

I wish you the all the best. Hang in there!
L.

It sounds to me like something else is going on. That it isn't just you....or just the Dr appt. Do you have mutual friends you could ask?

Hi L. e sorry about your situation on your marriage. It sounds to me your husband may not want to be married anymore.or married to you.he dose'nt care much for his kids if he's gone for so long.and when he's there he's miserable and he shows it. When a husband tells you don't touch me it's over,an locks you an your son out of the house,doesn't care about your health or your kids,theres definatly some thing going on with him.he may be cheating,or he wants his freedom. Dose'nt sound like thiers to much love in this marriage on his side good luck hope it works out

Oh my dear L.,

Oh honey, I can SO relate to your pain. I was in a seven yr relationship that the man(if you can even call him a man in retrospect)I was with was so incredibly mean and insensitive it literally almost destroyed me. Like you, I had hopes that he was a "nice guy" because he was in the general eyes of everyone else. I justified and analyzed and apologized and remained passive to literal insults, and was SURE he wasnt cheating. L., HE WAS CHEATING...BIGTIME...not only with one person but as far as I found out, four. One of them he took to Spain when he told me he was flying to N.Y.on business and to visit a couple of friends there while there.
I crumbled. I had an 11 yr old daughter at the time whom he raised with me since she was six. I wont go on about all the committment and life we'd built suppposedly together, through all his arrogance and talent with words and phycology.
He was a downright spoiled(by his mother and sisters), rotten liar. A beautiful sight that moved with grace and spoke elequently, with a sense of humor that was so attractive and green eyes that make you melt.
One day he up and moved away with two days notice and left us literally standing in the middle of the street crying and waving, back to LA.
After some visits some 5-6 months later, he asked us to join him down there to finally be a family after nearly 7 yrs of waiting, my dream. When I dropped everything, quit my job, sold my car and gave away all our furniture, there we were, living behind his witch sister. I FOUND OUT I WAS PREGNANT THE FIRST WK I WAS THERE. He was shocked, but happy, told his sis, mother, other sis, and children(that were my 11 yr old's age). Then one week he stopped talking to us. Period. For a month I cried when he would come home and walk right past me and say "dont talk to me".
Then the day came when I was 5 months prego and he started screaming and threw us out on the street in LA.
The story that followed is terrorizing...shelters, CPS involved becuase I was homeless when I gave birth, etc.

L., your husband does NOT love you. He does NOT value your child. He is selfish and is or will have affairs. It is very painful but look at him now through the correct eyes. Would you let your son stay with his wife(grown up)if she treated him like that? Look from a perspective, through all the tears. He is an arrogant jerk who is missing a sensitivity chip. Get out. You are beautiful, so intelligent and well spoken, grounded, nuturing, loving woman. Get your strenth through your child.
If you need my help write me all the time. Please keep in touch.

Much love,

Wendy

L.,
I was married in the same type situation as you for 14 years. I struggled to keep my married alive to benefit my 3 children. I wanted them to grow up in a "whole" family. After years of being the only one that "really" worked to save the marriage I realized, it doesn't matter how hard one person works. BOTH have to, or it fails. It's like riding a bike after fixing one of the two flat tires, it's somewhat easier at first, but the work involved to keep the bike moving is exhausting. Is this situation what you want you children to see as a "normal" "healthy" relationship? If your child were in the same situation would you hope for them to stay? or get out and find a more loving, nurturing, healthy relationship? I fought the battle for FAR too long. My children now thank me for leaving (I realize this is the exception to the rule, but if you handle the break as a way to make the children understand you don't hate their dad, but just don't get along anymore, it CAN work out better). We are both in loving relationships now and the kids are so much better off then in the loveless bitter shell we were all in before.
As a side not, I didn't' believe in divorce. Now I only believe that we all too often make commitments to others before we REALLY know what WE ant for ourselves. Afterall, how can we choose a mate to stand with us for life, if we don't know where we want our lives to go, or how we want to get there? Find yourself, not the self you have been "assigned" to, but the true, deep down self that you have but aside to continue with the marriage.
My observations is that when one partners asks for a trial separation, they left long ago...
I wish you all the luck in the world, you will need it, weather you go or stay and find a way to make it work.
wishes of love and contentment,
H.

feel free to email if you would like to talk further. ____@____.com

Oh wow - I wish you were at least a believer, because this is something you need help with. I have to say, your husband sounds just horrible. I can't imagine you, a caring, thoughtful woman who is trying everything she can both emotionally and intellectually with him, puts up with being THROWN OUT OF THE HOUSE WITH YOUR SON FOR DINNER!!! Holy cow - what in the heck is this guy doing?? That is treatment for a bad animal - not a loving wife and child!! He needs help. L.! Every marriage needs work, but he has issues with himself. I am not a fan of divorce, but in this case I'd have to wonder. Seperation, unless long-term is not going to change a thing since you guys are seperated a lot. I'd give the guy an ultimatum because you and your family should not have to live that way - it's not normal.
I'm so sorry for you - please put your self first because what affects you will affect your kids, and that w/b sad!
Best of luck to you,
M.

Hello L.,

I think a trial separation is an opportunity...

Take it, it will be good no matter what happens. You'll be able to see so much more clearer when there is a change in your present circumstances. Things you didn't notice before will stand out. Think of it as an opportunity to explore your feelings: do you feel more relaxed or not? do you miss him or not? Also, examine your children's reactions. They are great radars picking up underlying energy in family dynamics. Are they more comfortable or not? Do they look more relaxed or not? Sometimes crisis make us stronger. When I went through a trial separation with my husband I ran into these lines from Shakepeare: "And ruin'd love, when it is built anew, grows fairer than at first, more strong, far greater."

Good luck and don't worry (as you must know as a psychologist, crisis are not really bad things!),

Maria

You've gotten a lot of good advice, L., so I'll just respond to a couple of your questions - namely, how do you maintain a good relationship with him, with his family and with his friends, once you're separated? The answer, unfortunately, is that it's not up to you. Stop trying to make everyone behave as you would want them to, and take care of yourself and your boys. They will need it.

Your first priority is to figure out your income, if he is the sole support of the household. If you have none, you will need some legal advice regarding child support. He is probably asking for a separation rather than divorce because he has consulted an attorney and knows he will only be legally obligated to pay alimony and child support if you're divorced. He can manage to stay separated for years. Do not agree to mediation, that's just another way for him to control the situation - namely, the financial situation. If you own the house, even jointly, make sure you and your boys don't leave the house. Again, forget therapy right now and get your own legal counsel! You have grounds for divorce - start documenting his abusive behavior.

About his friends and family - they aren't yours, be prepared for that and make sure you have your own friends and family. Tell your family what's going on. You need all the support you can get.

And about sharing custody - nothing you've said has indicated that he has any interest or concern for your sons. If that's the case, it would not be in their best interest to be with him half the time - nor does it sound like he would want that (six months with you, six months with him? That's the only equal custody arrangement). Get real here, and stop trying to show the world how fair and accommodating you can be. Stop accommodating him! No one cares, and you're only hurting yourself and your children. Again, find some support! And get him out of the house.

Im so sorry to hear everything that is going on in your family and wish you all the best. Why do you not like Dr Laura's book? Many women that marriages were in a ditch have had amazing turn around. I have had friends that hate their husbands and want out and I just tell them to try somethings that Dr Laura says in the book they never read it. To wake up every morning with the attitude what can I do today to make his day better. They get a million more back then what they give. They find out that they are totally in control of their relationships. Men are very easy and just want to be made to feel like they are the king of their castles and everybodies hero and respected and some love and attention and they will give you the world. If what you have done all these years has not worked why not try something new? It can't hurt.

Dear L., I have been married for 16 years and trust me its rough at times, but there has been a balance in our marriage and we talk. But I give all the credit to My LORD, He is the one in the center of our marriage. Turn to Him in prayer!!! He will give you wisdom and guidance on how to handle your situation. Dont turn to human wisdom for advice, we have alot of problems as it is! Read the Bible!!! there is sooooo much sound counciling, and it all comes from God. He made you, and He already knows your heart, He knows you!!! and what you are going thru, and trust me... He knows your husband's heart too!!!! you have to let go, and pray... for your self and for your husband!!! and if it is God's perfect will for him to come back then it will be in God's perfect timing!!! Trust Him!!!Let your husband go, i think he causing you alot of pain. I will pray for you. Please just try the Lord for advice!!

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to sugar coat this at all. Please open your eyes. Remember John Edward? That baby is his!!! This is soooooooooo classic cheater life style. He wants out. He won't make the move so that he can blame you for everything. Forget the fantasy and PROTECT yourself and children. Believe in yourself !!! You will find the right guy to be the husband and father that you desire. The guy you have now is not that guy! A trial separation will only cement his desire to be out of this marriage and free again. Please make a list and take a deep look at it. See the real situation for what it is. I'm sure you will be much happier a year from now when you look back at this and think - why did I stay so long ?

Marriage is a contract with God. It's also a two way street. Without God you will have nothing. God gives us love and guidance and will teach you and your husband about priorities you need to raise the children. You must be the stronger person and teach your husband & family about Gods love. Sometimes therapists do not have all the answers. I know this from experience. I don't mean to preach I am telling you this to sincerely help you. Please go see a minister, priest or rabbi before you give up. I will pray for you both. Love and Peace, M

YOu may want to Look into Landmark Education, Celebrating Men - Satisfying Women, and Agape International Spiritual Center - non - religious. the first two are personal development seminars, the 3rd has spiritual counseling.

Be well.

N.