Therapy for 8 Year Old?

Hi Z.,

I can so relate to your child throwing this little fit as I call them. My son who is 9 now, and in Third Grade also has done the exact same thing! He hasn't used the recycling bin but did tear up a report card on the bus, because his teacher had written me a note on it about homework not being turned in.

As far as the fit goes, he is also in the gifted class too. But he has said a few times to me, the whole "I hate my life and want to die" scenario. I am finding out that talking with other parents and the school conselor and therapist that alot of students at this age have this blurting out disappointment remark. I have found that in talking to my son, he is having a hard time making friends at school and this might be a big reason for the behavior issue.

I've talked with many parents who suggested he may be adhd and need to go on meds for this, unfortunately, I don't agree with all that. I'm not one to have my kid take pills for bad behavior. I want to understand why he would make such remarks before I would have him swallow a pill everyday for anything! I did find when he is comfortable and having fun with friends, doing well in school, no fits of any sort that NO such or even close remarks are made. So I truly thing its just an "I'm very unhappy, so I'm blurting out attention getters" type thing. So when he does this, I make him write behavior issue papers and read books on them for awhile, then all is back to normal. We all get mad and sometimes make remarks we shouldn't, so maybe the kids have caught on to this and are spreading it around.

Would love to hear the other comments on this.
Good luck with your son! I for one, know how stressful it is!

Your friend on Mamasource,
T

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If he hates reading and writing, there's most likely an underlying reason for it. My daughter hated reading, and ended up in remediation and having tutoring at a wonderful local school and tutoring center that focuses on how children learn in different ways. They found that she didn't process what she read in the "traditional" manner, and that because of how her brain processed what she read she couldn't remember details. Once they figured out what her issue was, they were able to teach her coping skills so she could pass the tests and assignments which were causing her so much grief. Four years later she's in an accelerated language arts program. My 9 year old son has hated reading and writing as well, but he has fine motor skill problems and underwent years of occupational therapy. He's actually starting to like reading now thanks to suggestions from a local librarian. He'll read the Stink Moody books over and over. Look at how your son has been doing in the classes where he has to read. Perhaps an evaluation would be in order. Also, a developmental eye exam should be done. Many learning issues are actually due to eye tracking problems, not being able to cross midline, etc. Good luck!

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Hey Z.,

I am not sure from your post, does he have trouble reading and writing or does he just not like it? I would also ask you if his handwriting and planning skills are poor. If you answer yes, then I would suggest that you look into an educational evaluation, which you will have to get privately, but will be worth every penny if you find something.

Since he is in a gifted program, ask to see the standardized evaluations that they used to identify him, if he has a large difference between his acheivement scores in language arts and math/science, and more importantly, if they did general intellegence testing and he has big differences between his verbal and performance scores or has more big ups and downs between the IQ subtests, this could suggest some learning difficulties that will cause him stress and frustration. Even if all the scores are higher than average, big differences between them can cause problems and you should know where these are.

I would not venture to guess what the difficulty could be, there are many that manefest this way, dyslexia is one, but dysgraphia, visual motor/visual perceptual, and a whole slew of processing disorders can cause a simualr outcome with very different causes. You will have more sucess helping him if you target what is causing his reluctance to read and write. If he is not behind his peers, he may be functioning below his own IQ level, which is a problem, and if he is resistant, he may also fall behind later.

I am concerned about how early his identification for GT services is, 3rd grade is a little soon for the testing to be reliable. There is some school of thought that 4th grade is the earliest time for the onset of gifted instruction as some kids develop the early learning skills quickly but the majority of these kids will level off with the rest of the class by the end of 3rd grade, making the pool of those kids who are identified as gifted much smaller. If your school has more than 6%-10% identified school wide (one single class that is above the average is not a concern) then you might want to get your own testing anyway so that you know how gifted he is and know that the problem is not that he is being overwhelmed because of the extra work.

Wishing that he was never born and wanting to be dead are different than planning a suicide. You should be very concerned and careful, and I think you need him to have an evaluation anyway, but since most educational evaluations are done by psychologists, once you tell them of your concern, they will also screen him for depressive disorders and will do ratings scales that will identify any clinical area that needs treatment. If you are only concerned about the morose statements, one way to get a referal for educational testing is to take him to a therapist, it would probably be play therapy, but good therapists will pick up on any educatiional cause to emotional issues and refer kids for more detailed testing to aid in treatment, so you could go that route.

Your physicain should be able to refer you to psychologists, neuro-psycholgists, therapists, or developmental pediatricians in your area. You can get to the same end point with any of them, and it may depend on your physician's experience and who is in your area as to who they refer you to. If you don't need a referal, it is really your choice, but for what you are describing, I would start with a psycholgist who does educational evaluations.

If you get his GT testing and have trouble understanding what you are reading, you can PM me, I work as an educational advocate for children with special needs, and I may be able to help you understand what they mean, or at least point you in the right direction.

I hope this helps, sorry to be so long.

M.

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Z.,
I would echo those who suggested you take your son's comment seriously and not dismiss it as an attempt to get attention. I'm not saying you should freak out :) but talking to him, his school counselor and your pediatrician would probably be wise.
I also agree with the others who suggested you explore why your son doesn't like reading and writing. Is it boring to him? Too difficult? It could be that he just doesn't care for those subjects, but it is possible to be gifted in one area and have a learning disability in another.
A book that might help you with both your children is "A Mind at a Time" by Mel Levine. I love this book; it's all about considering an individual child's individual strengths and weaknesses.
Good luck!
N.

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Last Friday after coming home from the school Valentine party, Abbie, 6, got out of the car and dropped a plastic jar w/ hearts all over it that contained some heart shaped marshmallows that she had won during the party by guessing the exact number of marshmallows. She loves marshmallows.

She had eaten a few, as had her grandmother, so most of them were in the jar, UNTIL she dropped it. The lid had not been screwed on tight. About half the contents came out of the jar & onto the pavement. She started picking them up and wanted to put them back in the jar. I told her she couldn't and we threw them to the birds in the woods. She had a COMPLETE meltdown.

We went thru about 15 -20 minutes of "I hate my life. Life isn't fair. I don't want to live anymore. I just want God to fix it. Life just isn't fair. I really wanted those marshmallows.." etc. At first she just went & crouched behind a chair and didn't want to talk while she cried about life being so useless.

Little by little I told her that first and foremost, they were only marshmallows. We could always buy more. Secondly, I should mention that she is only w/ us every other weekend and she gets NO coping skills at her mother's. No surprise. Mother has none.

Anyway........I agreed w/ her & told her that life isn't fair, but we ALWAYS have control over how we respond to situations and circumstances. In addition, we need to understand that every CHOICE has a consequence - good or bad. Therefore, we need to pay attention and be very careful as to the decisions we make. I also reminded her that she didn't lose ALL of them.

As we continued in the conversation, she came out and we talked more, the crying was less and less and then we counted how many she had left. She DECIDED that it was still good that she had some and that "YES, we could buy more". It wasn't near as tragic as she had originally made it out to be.

Something similar happened in July when I had to wake her in the car after she'd fallen asleep. I was getting an oil change & she wanted to stay in the car. Of course, I wouldn't let her. She began pouting, mean looks, the whole nine yards. We were scheduled to go to Holiday World the next day. When we got home she started sobbing and saying she didn't want to go, it was too hot, she didn't want to talk to me, etc.

I told her that she had ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to be mad at me. I had done nothing. If she was miserable it was because SHE made the decision to be that way and that she had a choice. I left her in my room to think about it.

About two minutes later, she called me and asked if I could come in. I told her I would and asked what she had decided. She told me she didn't want to be mad anymore & that she loved me and that was the end of it. She then asked if she could call her dad and tell him she wasn't crying any more. (He had called earlier during the meltdown)

I CONTINUALLY remind her that THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES for decisions you make. He MADE the decision to get rid of the homework. He paid the consequences. COPING SKILLS ARE AN ABSOLUTE MUST and kids don't naturally have them. THEY NEED TO BE TAUGHT.

If this kind of thing happens often, then yes, I think I might think about having him talk to someone. Otherwise, just realize that he's come to the point of having to suffer the consequences of a poor decision. Teach him and talk to him about how he could have handled it differently and how it would have made him FEEL differently if he had made a different decision. These are life skills! Take the time to work with him!

NO get someone to help him with the problems he is having in the class room.there is something going on and no one is catching it.this sounds like my youngest son and it wasnt until almost out of high school they finally told me he was dyslexic.that doesnt mean your son is.the other issue i see it could be is his intelligence is so high that simple things are hard for him and vice versa.please go have a conversation with his teachers.work on a solution together but remember you the mom needs to be encouraging him K.

My son did the same thing in 1st grade. He was upset about something (can't even remember what it was at the moment) and said his life was horrible and wanted to die. I had him talk to the school counselor, which mortified him. To this day, he remembers that and it wasn't meant as a punishment in any way. He just thought it was awful to have to talk to someone like that, I guess. He has never said anything like that since and he's in 4th grade, now. He is also a very bright child in the talented and gifted program. He has a flair for the dramatic (I wonder where he gets that? heehee..me) The suggestion about the dyslexia may be worth looking in to, though. I would keep listening to him and encourage him to talk to you if he feels that way again. Good luck!

Hi Z.,

Do not ignore those alarms going off in your head! You don't necessarily have to take him to the hospital, but talking with his pediatrician and school guidance counselor is a good starting point. My 10 yr old has said similar things over the past few years - he is also in the gifted program at his school and hates to write. (In another interesting similarity here, our youngest was also born with DS, but sadly passed away at 3 months of age, which affected our oldest alot). We ended up taking him to a child psychiatrist for a few months and it was very helpful. The guidance counselor at school would also sit down with him periodically and just chat, which he really responded to. Maybe your son is worried about his sister's health, but doesn't know how to communicate it? I know that my son is VERY sensitive, and easily overwhelmed by school work. And from talking to other parents in his class this appears to be fairly common with gifted kids. And living with a sister who has special needs may be an added pressure - he may feel a great responsibility for her. I would recommend talking to his teacher and the school guidance counselor. Your pediatrician should also be able to recommend a good child psychiatrist. Trust your instinct here. Good luck!

I think, sometimes, we push our children to much. You say he is a young 3rd grader, gifted in some areas and in gifted programs for those areas. He doesn't like to read? If he really is interested in science then he doesn't dislike reading, he just doesn't care to read about things other than science. He doesn't like to write? I raised one boy (now 27) and am raising a 10 yr old boy, and my brother is 9 years younger than I am. None of them liked to write. They didn't like to use puncuation (sp), they didn't like to change paragraphs, and it was a pain to proof read their work and have them make the corrections for school. Naturally they hate their lives, they don't get to do what they want when they want. Frankly I am not always fond of my life either, are you? The difference is we have been taught and programed to accept the good and the bad and just don't state, "I hate my life". My ten year old frequently tells me he wishes he had never been born. We went to therapy for 3 years. It is simply a way of expressing his dislike for the way things are going, not that he wishes he was dead. No, I don't think he is talking about killing himself.

Z.,
This sounds like a young boy who is very smart, but is being pushed way too hard. Gifted and talented classes only offer more homework for children, there is no real challenge.
My son was in them up until 6th grade and he just could not take it anymore. I explored the "regular" class curriculum and they were doing the same thngs as GT but not the amount of reports and homework. My son was depressed, angry and yes also threatened to commit suicide. When we allowed him to switch classes and become a normal kid with extra curricular activities and less stress he started enjoying himself and life. He is now 21 years old, a excellent college student and wonderful young man. (and by the way, he too had a younger sister he was jealous of, she missed several months of school because of an illness (he was 10 when that happened)

Dear Z.,

I feel for you! No parent ever wants to hear that!

Yes, I have heard it from both my kids (now 17 and 14). Only once from the older one; several times from my younger son. He was in 5th or 6th grade at the time (I forget). Since he seemed to be in genuine distress, I got the name of a therapist from a trusted friend (who also does counseling, but felt she was too close to the situation to see Philip as a client).

Philip already had an IEP and tutoring for reading difficulties (and his handwriting isn't so great either, but we have not pushed that because as long as it is legible, it's OK; when he grows up, really the only thing he will have to sign is checks--lol). Like your boy, he loves math and science, and has a very high IQ; but his grades kept him out of the gifted program. Now he is in 8th grade and in advanced math and science classes, band, and "normal" English and social studies; brought home great grades so far this year (so there IS hope!)

I think the therapy helped him with some communication and coping skills. I still see the therapist for my own issues, and for the general reason of "if mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy"; or the "please adjust your own oxygen mask before you assist your child" reason. I am not saying you have issues; it helped me cope with Philip's difficulties too.

Someone else mentioned that he might be teased about his sister. I had a normal younger brother who just didn't work very hard in school, and got into some trouble as a teen. I remember feeling that I had to be "the good/smart child" and not screw up (even though I could not articulate it at the time). Might he be feeling something similar? Just a thought.

I would definitely talk to his teacher, counselor, principal, doctor, etc. and to him. I say better to take it seriously and have it be a false alarm, than the opposite.

Sorry for running on, PM me if you want to talk some more. Good luck, you'll be in my prayers!

K. Z.

I would suggest you seek out professional help for him, not for depression but for a possible learning disability. Your son my be dyslexic. That would explain the difficulty in reading and writing. I have serious dyslexia and school was always so hard for me, I was always angry and depressed that I couldn't learn things. I felt stupid and hated feeling "damaged" somehow. It wasn't until high school that I finally got the help I needed and learned that I wasn't "damaged", my brain just processed things a little slower then everyone else. I was smart and have a very hight IQ, my brain was just hard wired differently and I needed to learn to make it work for me.

Find out if the school can test him and if they have a program for children with learning difficulties. Try talking to him calmly, ask him why he hates reading. Ask him if it's hard for him. Don't give up looking for special programs for him, the right one will do wonders. The sooner he gets the help he needs the better he will feel and the better he will do.

Good luck, I hope this helps.

hi Z.,

It is so sad to hear that. The first thing that come to my mind is he MAY feel overwhelmed with the pressures of being in the gifted classes. I strongly reccommend that you ask HIM what he wants to do. Does he want to be in these classes- especially when he hates reading and writing. At least in those classes he should be in regular 3rd grade class. Just something to think about. He may need more praise for the good things he does.

It isn't a bad idea after your talk with him, you assess counseling and also talk to his school conselor. Maybe they have some things that they would like to talk to you about, but haven't thought it was serious enough to contact you yet...so put the pieces of the puzzle together just to be sure that all is where it ought to be. There wouldn't be much worse than seeing flags, not following up with them, and then something bad happening. The guilt would be horrible. So do follow up. Do talk and listen- really communicate, and talk with him about what the next steps will be, because you care about him and his happiness. So now he knows what he is about to experience with the support of his family, and that he is not alone.

I feel the pressures for your family. And it will all be okay. You all just need to come together. But only you really know all of this situation. I do hope that all of the advise you have gotten will give you some ideas of where to go from here. :)

(I just went through and read some of the responses to your post and am very irriattated and disappointed with one person in particular. This person clearly is talking about HERSELF in her situation...by assuming that you are YELLING at him and ignoring him. I don't believe those are safe and/or accurate assumptions, and I hope you don't let them insult you. She doesn't KNOW you or your situation. I guess you just have to take pieces of each persons words and apply them. :))

I pray it smooths over and he feels less pressure and more acceptance.

God Bless,

A.

Oh yes. And I remember saying the same things when I was a child. Try to learn not to react when he does something like that. Try to give both of yourselves a time out to regroup so you can use your head to clearly look at the situation. Make sure you are spending time with both individually so they don't feel left out. And if there are any sib classes for down kids I would look into it. Those are great to help kids understand their siblings with special needs. I know you said he was gifted. May be you might want to see if there is any stress that goes into that. He may resent extra homework. Boys are not like girls and are not trying to please anyone. They are more results oriented and see homework differently than us mothers do. There is a great book that talks about how boys develop and look at things. It's called Boys Adrift by Leonard Sax. SOmetimes us mothers do the wrong things for our boys for the right reasons. The only problem is the boys see it differently. YOu should also get her husband involved. He could probably give you some insights too. But I would take the time to understand how my boy is wired. Good luck to you.

My son is also 8 and is in the gifted program at his school. He also has a 6 year old sister. My son says this yours does like that I am mean, life isn't fair, etc. I don't take it personal, most kids say things like this! But, I would see if he is indeed depressed. Concerning the handwriting that is a real tipoff. Is it possible your son has Asperger's Syndrome? Kids that are highly intelligent like him but have difficulty with things like handwriting can be. Also, is he a great kid at school, very well behaved but he lashes out at home? My son does this because all day at school he is repressing his feelings so at home he just explodes. They call this Jekyll and Hyde in fact. The first time I saw my son at preschool I said that is not my kid, my son doesn't act like that! He was very submissive, let the other kids choose a toy and he took what was left. Things like that. He will not ask for help, especially from a teacher or even the school nurse if he needs to. Does your son have very little eye contact too? I always thought a child had to have NO eye contact to have a problem but that is not the case. I would find more information about the depression and signs and also Autism just in case.

My thoughts are this, and I should mention that even though I am an elementary teacher with a psych degree, I have never personally gone through this.

I would say not to run yet. For one thing, he is old enough for you to figure out if he meant what he said. Does he understand it? Where did he hear it from? Does he watch TV or read books about dying, but perhaps does not understand what it means?

It would be no big deal to call his pediatrician and see what they say. Ask for some references maybe of books about coping skills, maybe with siblings who have special needs or just younger siblings in general.

See if you can spend a little extra time with him. I know it is hard, but can either you or your husband take him somewhere alone or set aside special time with him daily? Just to have some fun and then maybe to work on his writing and reading.

On that note, find books about science and math. There are great biographies for that age about how things work and different inventors etc. Play to his strengths and itnerests. Also, call his teacher. Maybe something else is going on in school that is upsetting him.

Chances are he was just upset about getting caught breaking the rules. Had he exhibited signs of this before? Is he moody, withdrawn, or upset a lot? Is he aggressive with peers or family? If not, I would bet money on it that he was just upset and trying to get a reaction out of you. Of course, keep an eye on him and if he starts exhibiting any other symptoms, talk to someone. You could always call the counselor or principal at his school and see what they have to say.

Being a big brother to a Down syndrome little sister could be his problem, that is if other children tease him about it. Kids can be very cruel.They don't realise that Down syndrome children are very special kids that need a lot of extra care and love.They are not freaks because they are different.But a 3 rd grade little boy doesn't have the ability to stand up for his sister if he is being teased about it.That being said I would try to spend more time with your son and maybe read with him and work on his math with him as well. I had trouble reading in school for awhile and I had to to read out loud as well as to myself to understand a lot of what I read.It is a form of dislexia. I also had problems in Math, I could always get the right answers but the teacher wanted to see how I got the answers.This was before the so called New Math.Being in the gifted class may be setting his goals too high after all he is only 8 years old.
I tell my students that reading and math are two of the most important things they will ever learn in school because they will use it for their entire lifes.I am a reading tutor at our local grade school, I volunteer my time to many children.Most are boys.I try to find books that will peak their interests to encourage them to read. I am Native American and the boys love books about Indians.And stories passed down for hundreds of years that have a lesson in them. It is so cool to see their little faces light up when they finally get it.
The I wish I was never born or I wish I were dead thing is probably a attention thing but it could be a cry for help.I would talk to him and see if he really understands what he is saying and if he really means it. If he thinks he means it I would seek counciling fast.Children are our future and without them our whole world would cease to exist.
Good luck and I hope this helps you in some way.
Debbie

An eight yr old boy with a special needs child - Yes he needs therapy - HOME therapy! He needs "mom" dates and "mom" time. I have been there - I have had 3 special needs boys and jealousy is real. As far as suicide - ask him what made him say that. Sit down and "talk" and "listen" to him. Encourage him. He needs a lot of attention right now. He's tired of being smart and being yelled at. Have a party for him and his friends. Do something special for/with him and stop trying to "push" him into what he's not comfortable with. He's wanting Love and attention which are normal. He will say or do anything for YOUR attention.

This doesn't sound normal to me. Acting out by throwing the homework away could be a response to the situation. Maybe he was frustrated that he isn't good at writing. However, the things he said sound extreme. My mom is clinically depressed and has to be on antidepressants all the time. She remembers having a "death wish" at the age of 10. I would definitely keep a close eye on him and seek professional help. Better to be on the safe side than have a tragedy occur. Blessings, R.

i would listen to your warning bells. my son said similar things when he was in kindergarden & i talked to his teacher that night & requested that he start seeing the counselor in his school regularly. to prepare my son, i told him that everyone needs someone to talk to when they can't feel like they can talk to family, and that he could tell the counselor anything he wanted and it would be their secret. after the first few sessions he was a completely different child. he's in 1st grade now & he still sees the counselor twice a week. i don't ask what they talked about, all i aks is if they had a good visit & talk. my advise is go with your gut, mothers' instincts are seldome wrong. good luck & god be with you.