The Earth Can't Handle It. People Who Want Big Families Need Consider Adoption?

Actually, I'd argue that the welfare of our country depends on couples having children. Our socialist programs (social security, Medicaid, etc.) require an increasing adult workforce population to support those who can't work. Without large families bringing more future adults into our population, our economy will wilt. Japan has had an ever decreasing population and their economy faces a lot of hardships (even before the earthquake/tsunami). Do some research on the Japanese negative population growth versus economic situation if you're looking for a response to people's comments on having a large family.

For what it's worth: The concepts of Malthusian economics were first introduced in 1798. When someone cites population growth as the cause for the earth's miseries, that is a vocalization of Malthusian economic theory--and it's paranoid rhetoric has been frightening people for the last 200 years. Look it up on Wikipedia if you want to better understand the basic tenants of Malthus' perspectives. To me, the perfect response to someone who is berating you for wanting a large family is to say, "I don't agree with Malthusian economic theory. Obviously it wasn't valid in 1798 and I don't think it's valid in 2011." And if they truly understand what they are saying, then the conversation will lead to a discussion on socio-economics; but if they are just echoing thoughts they don't really understand, mentioning Malthus will probably hush them up, because they will be unprepared for a response regarding economic theory.

And much of the hunger and misery in the world is not because the earth can't grow enough food... It's more due to corrupt governments which sell their people's food and resources on the global market so they can then buy weapons.

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Here's my opinion: Who are you, or anyone else on this board, to set some arbitrary number of the "appropriate" number of children?? It's so easy to judge others, isn't it? First it's "anyone with more children than 5," then it's "I've only had 1 and wouldn't have had any.." blah, blah, blah. For those of you SO worried about the status of the planet and ecosystem, start doing something on your own that has a positive and immediate impact on the planet. You certainly aren't helping the planet by sitting in front of your computer all sour-faced, judging other people and waiting for everyone else to change! You can leave my uterus out of it.

I don't think most people understand how incredibly difficult it is to adopt in the United States The majority of those poor children in and out of foster homes come attached with drugged-addicted mothers or fathers who won't sign the papers to allow official adoptions (they just jump in and out of those poor childrens' lives at their own descretion, refusing to do the best thing for the child.) In other cases, the whereabouts of one parent is unknown, so the child cannot legally be given up for adoption. The adoption system in the US is abominable.

And international adoptions...do you have a spare $35,000+ sitting around to blow?

Hope this helps.

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This is one of the most judgmental causes disguised as a "question" that I've ever seen on here. :-) I'm happy to see that it's not an opinion that you personally hold.

Adoption isn't quite so easy as many people make it seem. The Earth's population is only 6 billion and won't be over-populated until it hits 12 billion. The problem right now isn't resources or children that need to be adopted but that resources that ought to be free not only cost excessive amounts of money, but they're taxed to death.

And how about not making higher education so expensive? The more educated people are the more educated their choices are including family size and contraception use. Make education, contraceptives, and how to use contraceptives more readily available and maybe there will be less need to put babies up for adoption. Let's address issues such as teen pregnancy and other types of unwanted pregnancies so that there are less children that need to be adopted. Let's stop pushing adoption and yet in the next breath making women feel guilty for giving up their children if they choose to adopt their babies out if they're married or engaged telling them that they should keep their babies even if they feel adopting out would be better.

Adoption will have no effect at all on population. That's a straw man argument.

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The Earth CAN handle it if we treated the Earth with respect. There's TONS of land, unpopulated. Industry is killing the Earth.

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The next time someone says something, I would say, "Wow! Communists believe in controlling the number of children a family can have. Maybe you should consider moving to China!" :)

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I think those people are nuts! I wish everybody would just be concerned about themselves, instead of what everyone else is doing. Why do these people feel the need to question those of us who want more than one kid? It's none of their business, just like it's none of our business if someone chooses to have only one or two kids!

To all the green earth freaks: MYOB!!!

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Even a family with only 2 children can be considered big. Perhaps you should gear your "problem solving" towards an impact which includes your own actions, not just "theirs".

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Wow-another bizarre 'the world is too populated so we should all adopt' post. Very strange...I have never ever had this conversation with anyone or heard anyone talking about this yet it comes up here all the time. Maybe its just you posting all of them...I don't care enough to go back and look though.
And I am not sure what kind of people that you know who would tell you that your desire for a big family is damaging the earth. I would think about getting some new friends.

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I think the idea of adoption is great BUT, if people would like to have big families made up of their own bio children that's great too. I guess what I'm saying is that it's not my business if my neighbors want to adopt 10 kids or have 10 kids of their own.

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I think it is completely crazy for people to get on their high-horse about over-population! The earth is meant to hold people! I think families who choose adoption are making a fabulous choice! But I also think that it isn't anyone else's business or right to tell families how to have children. If they want 12 biological children, that is their right to choose that. If they want 0 children, that is their right to have no children. I fully support adoption but I don't think it should be connected to population issues etc. They are two very separate issues.

Ok, as for you being hammered by people wanting to know why and trying to make you defend yourself, you have to just put them in their place. Tell them----Why do you want to know? Why are you so interested in my reproductive methods? Why is this your business??? How many children have you adopted and how many more are you planning on??? See, it doesn't feel good to be hammered does it? Then tell them its really not your business and I would appreciate you staying out of my husband and I's decision to expand our family.

I know just how you feel! Its sooo annoying to get the fifty million questions-- I have 2 right now and want more and people always ask about that and oh are you gonna try for a girl now?? It bothers me but I just have to laugh because people can be so ignorant and nosy-- If you just remind them that its not their business, usually they will get embarrassed enough to walk away and quit asking. GL

M

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Since you've opened up a provocative topic, here's my two bits.

My husband and I are more or less zero population growth people. We're into replicating ourselves (or less) and then stopping.

Personally, I think it would be fantastic if families large or small were to consider adoption if they are wanting to 'add on'.

We prefer to have a small family (one son), but I'm not going to give anyone a hard time about raising larger families. That's their choice. However, it isn't a choice that I could make. We try to live within our means and having more children isn't part of that picture. We have chosen to make sure we could afford adequate food, shelter, clothing, medical insurance and education for our son, even if my husband were having to collect unemployment.

Do I think the earth can handle the burden of the human population if it continues to grow as it does? Not particularly, and not for the better.This give me pause, and directs some of the decisions I make. For me, this is a social justice issue/fair trade issue.

I'm sure some people might feel we are selfish not to 'give' our son a sibling, too. But as for me, esp. with family and friends, I keep my thoughts to myself. If no one asks, I'm not offering an opinion, because it's *only* my opinion, and nothing more. And since you asked, this is my opinion.

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ACtually, the evidence is showing that while the earth's population is increasing, the rate of population growth is dropping. In most developed nations, people are no longer replacing themselves, and 2045, that will be true for most of the developing nations as well. For every family with ten kids, there are several families with only one and several families with none. Social structures as they are depend on having a larger young work force than retiring population (the social security problem), and we're just not providing.

The world can support all of us if we live correctly. There is already more than enough food being manufactured (distribution might be another matter), and enough energy if we get it from the right sources. So I would say have as many kids as you want and teach them to live well.

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I don't see the two being related. I would not judge a mom who wanted to have a large family and chose to have a child naturally rather than adopting, so long as they family was able to support their family without continual state assistance...

I am pro-life, and ask friends, and ladies on this site that are considering abortion to consider adoption. You are pregnant and don't want to have a baby, but there IS a mom out there that would LOVE to have your baby ...

To me, choosing adoption fills two voids. The void of a mother wanting another child. The void of a child wanting a forever family to call their own.

M.

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What really ticks me off is when people say you should have children "of your own" and then adopt children. Ahem. Adopted children are our own. It's biological children vs. adopted. Just fyi.

There is an argument that the earth isn't overpopulated. Just areas of the earth are densely packed and governments are corrupt and it appears that there aren't enough resources to go around. But there really are. Having one child per family is actually unsustainable and would create huge problems in the future. There's a balance somewhere, but it isn't my business how many kids someone has, and it isn't anyone's business for that matter. Unless you're a communist. And then it is someone else's business.

(I also like how people use the movie Wall-E as an example of what is going to happen to our planet someday. IT'S A CARTOON.)

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God made the earth for our good pleasure. I think it is interesting how other people try to make you feel guilty because you simply want to have the same right to "be" and procreate that every other human has had for the last 15,000 years. SInce when do any humans have the right to divy up the gift we were given by someone else (God)?
It is socialists who tell everyone to "give up" everything..ie: families, their own offspring, their own comforts, comfortable cars, decent lightbulbs, beef, freedom, ...you name it! Meanwhile they are stealing our resources like water rights ,land rights and liberty way from us.
I doubt they are in other nations evangelizing so much as they do here (that we should reject or feel bad about our God given desires to seek to have children who are extensions of a union of two flesh into one.)
Furthermore, people who adopt through the state lose alot of freedoms that natural families have. The state comes in to "oversee" the adopted family....as if they are some kind of God themselves. Nothing is sacred and private anymore, all your life becomes part of their probing. I have one friend with an adopted son who is a nightmare because she was so passive with discipline- afraid that she couldn't discipline because of the state watching over her.
Meanwhile, adoptions have become nothing short of people trafficking. If they really cared as much about the child that is claimed- it wouldnt be so damn exceedingly expensive to bring one into your home.

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I find it halarious when the people most concerned with overpopulation and destroying the world, are the ones driving giant gas guzzlers, people who throw away decent items, uses disposables and wont even care about how long it takes to have ONE diaper to biodegrade. 500 years people is their estimate IF in open air!! These I find are the ones most concerned about large families and how gross it is that they are taking up the worlds food and polluting the air.
Ignore those people who get after you for having a large family. They are ignorant and obviously insecure about a lot of things. For those that are wanting a large family and will adopt; Good for them! Giving a child a second chance at life!
Do what you want to do. You can't care what other people will think. I have learned that the hard way :D

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My observation is that my family has been at ZPG (zero population growth) or less for several generations now. Some people have three or four kids. Some have none. Some have kids by multiple fathers. Some adopt. There are lots of combinations. But the overall average ends up to ZPG or less.

I can't run the numbers because I don't know everyone well enough, but looking around my very diverse neighborhood I see the same pattern. We're at ZPG or close to it.

I honor and support those people who choose to be childless. I honor and support those who choose many children. I observe that when everyone chooses their own path, these people seem to balance each other out.

If you want to have a snippy response to the folks who are critiquing your goal of a large family, start collecting "reproduction credits" from all your friends who are choosing not to procreate. One adult with 12 kids and 11 childless friends equals ZPG.

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How about adopting because there are babies and children who are out there without mummies and daddies? Just a thought.....

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If it were feasible, I would totally agree. However, the majority of people on earth can't afford 5,000-30,000 per kid adopting. In addition, not everyone can handle going through the foster system to adopt. My best friend does this, and I know I couldn't handle it emotionally, mentally, and physically. I just couldn't, I know my limits.

If we respected the earth and weren't so entitled, selfish, and messy with it...it could handle an indefinite amount of people. Maybe, instead of limiting children...people could be kinder to place they live. I doubt that will ever happen, either.

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i think that would be great in a perfect world, but i think it will never happen. people are too excited about having babies - and no one is ever allowed to voice the opinion that it's anything but wonderful to do so. ever. i also think you're opening up a greeeaaat big can of worms on this one :) (and for what it's worth, it's 100x harder to adopt- and more expensive- than to have your own. so that doesn't help either)

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What evidence do those people have saying that anyone would damage the earth by having big families? Well, I think that sounds a bit crazy. lol Adoption is always an option for anyone who wants to. My Granny had six siblings. Back in her day, there were big families. Now a days you don't see that too often due to lack of funds to provide for children. Of course there is Kate plus 8, and there is another gal here that has 19 children......
For me, my two sons are plenty. :-D If we had the financial means, I would want more children. May be. lol
It just all depends on what that individual wants. :-)

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I look at it like this- As long as families can financially afford the children they are having or adopting, more power to them... I do however, have a lot of issues with families that can't afford more children and just keep having them.. It's not fair to the children and their future....

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I can't name 5 people who I personally know that could afford adoption- even if they wanted to. The cost should be lowered. Loving families want to adopt and give those children a home, just cannot do it.

If you want a big family for the right reason, I say go for it. But I think some people have the wrong intentions. For show? For assistance? For whatever reason, people have too many kids that they really should not have had.

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I have 3 kids me & my husband made our 3 kids naturally I don't want children that I can't reproduce myself sorry if that seems harsh but seriously that is how I feel even if I were unable to have created my children naturally I would have to live without.Adoption isn't the choice for me.
I would never tell someone you have to many kids or you shouldn't have 1 loner,that isn't for me to say.

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Why are you telling people you want a big family? If you don't talk about that, you won't have the problem of people asking you 20 questions. It's not their business to fuss at you for wanting to have children.

D.

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I have always wanted a big family, I always thought that I would have 2 of my own and adopt 2. pregnancy is awful or me, I HATE it. but my brother is unable to have children and him and his wife are going through the adoption process, and I don't think i could do it. It is so say and hard at times. until those papers age 100% legally signed, it is really touch and go feeling. I would way rather be pregnant for years than think that my baby could be taken back. people should mind their own business.

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I agree that the earth, and other species that share it with humans, are under tremendous stress because of our exploding population. I've had this concern since I came of age in the 60's, have done quite a bit of research on it, and my concerns have grown tremendously. I stopped with one child of my own over 40 years ago, and she, in turn, has stopped with one son.

Nevertheless, it simply does not work to tell other people what they "need" to do. I think the best any of us can hope to do is to keep making population information and alternatives available when moms are wondering whether to have more babies. And to walk our talk.

But changing attitudes and expectations is really hard for all of us. Most of us won't change until we're convinced against our will that what we are doing now is creating a crisis. And even though human population is truly a crisis in some parts of the world, our society is not feeling it yet, or not recognizing it as the problem yet.

My prayer is that we'll notice what's happening before we reach a tipping point from which there is no return. Some scientists believe that's already happened, and that whole generations will suffer because of our inability to stop, look, and change direction.

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I feel it's an idea to which it's easier for most to pay lip service.
Yes, overall, considering the rules of supply and demand, it makes perfect sense. But few practice what they preach. That also explains why there are so many older, waiting kids available for adoption, yet everyone waits for that "baby" hen they do adopt...even going to the extent of looking outside this country, where babies are more "plentiful".
Kind of how everyone feels sex offenders need to "register" to ensure the safety of society, yet no one wants them living in THEIR neighborhood. Know what I mean? Like they deserve a second chance, we don't want to hou$e them forever, but they can go live anywhere but here!

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wow! i think you should do what you feel is right. weather it be adoption or having your own blood child. i would love to adopt a child when im a little older and my husband and i are more on our feet.

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Just another view...I think it's kind of funny that we see ourselves ALWAYS being here. I wonder if the Dinosuars thought that way too. Maybe they didn't have high enough brain function, but I think you get my meaning. We may be the downfall of our Earth, but if we are it will hasten or extinction or reduce our numbers greatly and the Earth could heal change and make way for whatever is next. I used to worry about Asteroids, Wars, The Environment and I still do to some degree but I had an epiphany, Why would I think the Human race had any more right, claim, or entitlement to always exist? In a strange way it was sort of a relief, sort of the world would right itself even if we couldn't.

Adoption is a wonderful thing but I don't think it should be legislated in any way. I'm not sure who is giving advice? Angelina Jolie? I don't think it's as easy for people without a lot of money/power to adopt as she has. Maybe that can change but it will take a lot of time since children aren't just adopted from one country.

As far as a big family, you never know, your last child could turn out to be a great scientist, leader, or have great influence on postive changes in our world. There are some that say the population is growing in impoverished areas and that is actually the problem, not in places like our country.

Other than my strange coming to terms with the mortality so to speak of our entire species, I really don't have a strong opinion about people adopting to save the world.

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It seems like a less blunt thing to tell someone than ' you are using way more than your share of the earth's resources, so deal with the fact that you only have 4 or 6 or 8 kids and stop having more'. Having a child is a selfish thing. I don't see how else one could define it. I have chosen to have one. If DH had not really wanted a child, I would have chosen not to have any (and of course, I wouldn't change it for the world). The fact that you can afford (financially) food, clothing, health insurance and college for them does not mean they tread lightly upon this earth. And there are many children in the world who do not have parents. There are also (in this country) LOTS and LOTS of kids in the foster system who truly need homes.

Do people truly believe that global warming is unrelated to population - especially in the developed world and the rapidly developing world (China & India)? And of course adoption does not solve the population problem - having fewer children does. But for people who have some desire to have large families, it is an option that doesn't make things worse.

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Really? I would've never thought about people wanting big families as a "damage" to the earth. On the contrary, I would think that we need people to have kids. I personally don't want any more then two (and am thinking that unless I find someone who I want to marry I will probably just stick with the one that I have now). But, before I had my son, I didn't want ANY! So I look at the people wanting big families as basically repopulating the earth for me, if that makes sense lol.

I have heard a lot of people say "why keep having lots of kid when there are so many kids out there who need good loving homes?" I think this is what your actually referring to as I have heard this being said NUMEROUS times to people who want to have more then two kids. I agree with Riley 100%. Adoption and foster care is difficult not only for the kids but for the parents who decide to do it. There are WONDERFUL adoptive families out there who raise amazing children. However, many people want a young baby to adopt. Those who decide to adopt older are dealing with a lot of trauma, grief, abandonment, attachment, and on and on issues. Working in a juvenile detention center I have seen kid after kid come in who have been in the foster care system for years and who have felt abandoned over and over. They start to build a defense mechanism to help them cope. When a family comes in and says "we want to help you" they do everything in the power to cause problems because they don't trust the family can really deal with them! and why should they? It's almost like their way of testing whether or not your really gonna do what you say you will. Eventually the families realize they can't do it because of all the work and they move on to another family. It takes a special kind of person to be willing to adopt and especially adopt older kids who have suffered from these things. So no, it's not just that easy to decide that your going to adopt kids to add to your big family and stop having your own. Some families are simply not cut out for it. Then not to mention that the families that are cut out for it and would do amazing have to wait sometimes years before they ever get their first child.

My point is, have as many kids as you want! It's nobody else business. Personally I admire those moms that are willing to go through pregnancy and labor more then once! lol

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Wow, You are really nice & open minded. I would be pissed if anyone told me that. I only have one child because my Husband & I like it that way. Yes, adoption is a great way to go if you want a big family, it certainly will save your body. I don't believe anyone has the right to put yo on the spot like that. If you really want to take it a step further instead of adopting become foster parents, those are the children that really need our help.

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I know people feel really strongly about this topic. But from what I know, you are right... the population on earth is growing at an unsustainable pace. Its just hard for people to give up dreams of having tons of kids just to save a planet that wont really be that bad until after our generation is gone. It scares me to think about it! You should look up ecological footprint, their is a webpage where you can estimate how many planets we would need, if every one lived exactly like you! its pretty neat, and you can go back and adjust it to see how you can cut back on things to help out! This is something that people can do to help on their own, without worrying about what other families are doing. Personally I feel good about recycling, and eating "whole" rather than packaged foods etc... to help our planet. And we have one child... but hope for 1 more in the future.

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You want a bigger family. Do you have three? Only 1% of all the world's children needing adoption are ever adopted. It is easier to get a boy than a girl as more mothers give their boys away before they give their girls.
Countries that have available children are India, Hungary, Russia,Rumania China, Mexico and much of Latin America.
Many African countries have starvation and the parents have died. There are all the children in Africa whose mothers and fathers have died of AIDS.
Not only will you increase your family you will salvage the lives of the children you adopt.
There is also the nature vs. nurture arguement. Genetic imprinting is very powerful. It comes out all the time in the general nature of everyone. Adoptive children who've met their birth families find that their bio-dad plays the guitar as they do. Or that their birth mother secretly sings when she's anxious just as they do.

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LOVE what Lipstick Mama had to say!!!! :)
And S K. too!!! :)

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I think that you should do what is best for your family regardless of other people's opinions...that's all they are, opinions....everyone has one. If you can take care of a large family financially and emotionally, then by all means, have/adopt more. If you're on the government dole, then no, don't have more! I have friends that have 7, they are self-sufficient, but wow, do they face a ton of criticism! it's amazing what people think is ok to say to a big family!

First, I wouldnt listen to anyone else who says you are damaging the earth by wanting a big family. Thats horrible that anyone would say that or even think that. Every child is a gift from GOD.
Second, I would also like to adopt but im not doing it because I want a big family. I want to adopt because there are millions of orphans in the world who need a home. I think if families are in a position to adopt then its a really good thing for all those kids out there who have never known love, but I dont think it should stop you from having your own kids if you want.
Seems like everyone has an opinion these days. Im adopting internationaly and I could care less what anyone has to say about it.

It is a great idea, but a lot of times adoption is so hard to get into. It's sad because a lot of good people just can't get into the adoption process because of too much money needed for it... It can range from $2500 to over $40k depending on if its foster care adoption or intercountry adoption, etc. It's crazy that adoption should cost near $40k.

I would love to adopt and most likely will if my career comes in at the salary I expect it to. The only reason I couldn't adopt is because of the "price tag" (which is sad if ya ask me) or if some facility doesn't like that I don't go to church or something (I've heard of it happening which is crazy). Ideally, I think it's a great solution, but some people want to produce their own flesh and blood too... so you'll get mix and match with opinions obviously :)

If you asked me this question many years ago vs. now I would have said different things. When you are young, you want your own biological children. After growing in wisdom, and realizing that there are millions of unwanted abandoned children all over this earth dying because they have nothing, no one to care for them -- I WISH I had adopted. I am now too old to care for a baby, I would be ancient by the time they hit 20. If I could relive my life, I would have adopted many many kids. There are so many people on this earth 7 billion people, and kids are dying every second of the day. I think people get in the mindset 'well I want a kid who looks like me' or some such nonsense. Who cares ? A child is a child, and you will love that child the same whether or not it comes from your womb or someone else's. Personally, I would advise people to start adopting kids and do the right thing in helping impoverished kids around the globe.

Personally I don't think the size of the family is as relevant as the "footprint" that people leave. If anything, it seems to me that as long as you can afford to have kids it's no one else's business. I only take issue with the people who continue to have children when they clearly can't afford what they already have.

That said, I realize that there are lots of kids out there wishing for a great home. But I think it's likely that many kids are conceived by mistake or by people who couldn't afford them in the first place or by people who weren't fit to be parents - isn't that why they're in an adoption situation anyway?

It's completely up to you the size of family that you want. As long as you can put a roof over their heads, food on the table, etc. without depending on the government or anyone else for help - then that's up to you. And if you can adopt, great! But the choice is yours.

I wish adoption wasn't so expensive and such a long paperwork process. I mean if these kids need homes, don't you think that A HOME would be better than most anything the government provides?

A home with love and a family is what's most important.