Teaching Responsibility or Just a Mean Mommy?

This is what my mother (a very good mother) would have done: she would have done what you did, but then she would have offered me a couple of bites of hers, so that I could "try it." I get the message you are trying to send, but this also could have been a lesson about sharing.

However, having said that, I wouldn't ever tolerate my child telling me what a "good mother" would do. What sass! Frankly, after such rudeness, I wouldn't be in much of a sharing mood either. That's an attitude I cannot imagine tolerating. There are lots of ways she can express her disappointment without insulting you. Rather than her inability to stick with a decision she made (a very common trait in children), I think that's your bigger issue right there. I wish you luck.

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My 8 y/o and I went for ice-cream the other day. He ordered first then me. We sat down and he looks at mine and says "oh, that looks yummy! I should have gotten that!! Could I try it?" I said "sure, honey!" He tried a bite and went back to his. A few minutes later he asked for another bite, but after offering me some of his. When he had finished his and I had a little left I gave him the rest. He was ecstatic. I never would have given him mine if he had a tantrum, cried or spoke to me in such a way that your daughter did.

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You dealt with her perfectly.

The one thing I would have said is "I do not appreciate you talking to me in that way. Next time you talk to me in a way that is rude and disrespectful, and show that you aren't thankful for the food you have already gotten, I'll let you sit at the table and eat nothing."

ETA: In response to her "A good mom would have..." I would say, "You aren't a mother, so don't try to tell me what a good mother would do. You're here getting a sandwich instead of at home, aren't you?"

And in response to your mom, I agree with you. It's NOT just a sandwich. It's about teaching your daughter to be an adult woman, not a whiny, manipulative baby.

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Hi sweet!

First...I want the address of YOUR subway...OURS is SO S L O W that this never would have happened! lol

I think you did fine...but what stood out to me was your comment...'naturally, she starts crying'...

Hmmm...

At 10? Not in my world. I would have probably packed up all kiddos (and sandwiches) and gone directly home...allowing/having her miss softball practice.

Is she this manipulative with 'other' adults? Or just with you?

I would get ALL OVER THIS NOW.

If not, I will not envy you her teen years (only three years away...YITE!)

I would look at some of the books suggested below...stick with ONE philosophy (or a combo)...and then be GRUELINGLY consistent and firm with each and every incident.

Sending good thoughts your way!

Best Luck!
michele/cat

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omg PLEASE don't second guess yourself.
yes, she's just a kid and it's just a sandwich. that's LIFE. and you calmly and lovingly gave her one more experience in how to handle it appropriately.
i am 100% with you on this one.
khairete
S.

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Call me mean Mommy too! I would not have traded.

And your Mom, well you nailed it - Grandma's play by different rules and seem to be much more lenient with the Grandkids than they were with us.

Just an after thought here, but maybe in the future, in similar situations you all discuss what you are having before you all order. That way everyone gets a chance to consider something they might not otherwise have thought of...

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You did the right thing. Only I would have added serious consequences for the tantrum too....like and extra week of chores or something. And I probably would have taken away her sandwich and let her go hungry. Crying and insulting her mom? nope. She sounds like she needs some serious reality checks over and above the actual items in the given moment (not getting to switch sandwiches). That's not tough enough to teach her not to act spoiled going forward. She still got to throw a fit with no consequence. If she uses words as weapons, there needs to be consequences from you for that, just like there will be when she leaves home and disrespects bosses, friends, and spouses. She'll end up lonely or only liked by bad people if she acts like a bad person. If she doesn't respect you, she won't respect anyone.

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It may just have been a sandwich, and she's just a kid, but I would not have traded either. Good for you for teaching her to live with her decisions, big or small. The world needs more moms like you ;-)

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You did fine.
It was just a sandwich - and it was perfectly fine for her to eat what she ordered.
Maybe NEXT time, she can order LAST so she has plenty of time to think through her order before she orders it.

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You were NOT being mean at all, your daughter was being unreasonable and acting like a baby! Not only would I not have traded with my own daughter who is almost 10, she would have been punished (probably restricted from TV or going to friend's houses and given extra chores) if she had thrown a tantrum about it! And if anyone had called me a mean mom for that I would not have cared a bit! I am kind and loving to my children, but I am NOT a pushover and they know it. Everyone gets along better when there are boundaries and clear expectations.

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You handled it perfectly. My 6-year-old pulls this kind of thing a lot, and my response is, essentially, "Tough tomatoes." Kids need to learn that life is all about choices and consequences. Yes, today it's just a sandwich, but down the road it will be school, careers, sex, marriage, etc.

I don't mind letting my son try a bite or two of what I ordered, as long as he's polite about it and doesn't whine or pitch a fit, but otherwise he has to eat (or not eat, as the case may be) what he ordered. What would the waitstaff do if he handed his meal back to them and said, "I changed my mind. Can I have something else instead?"

The "good mother" comment would have sealed the deal for me. No way am I about to accommodate someone who's being that rude and manipulative.

Bravo for standing your ground!

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Gosh, you are sooo mean!! Seriously?? Accepting no for an answer is a tough lesson for kids to learn. They only way they will learn it is for us to say no!! You absolutely did the right thing, IMO!

I must be REALLY mean. I wouldn't have traded AND she would have received a consequence for throwing a fit.

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ROFL.

1) she got to choose exactly what she wanted, then pitches a fit about it???

2) wow. She still got to eat her Sammie after pitching a fit. That was super forgiving of you. in my house, that Sammie would have gone away and he could have had cereal or skipped the meal entirely. When someone does something nice for you, gratitude is what follows. "FINE I'll eat the stupid Sammie." gets met with an "I don't think so."

3) pitching a fit = you don't get what you want, even if I HAD been inclined to trade, that would have nixed it

4) "just" a Sammie is a GOOD thing. When small lessons are made, the 'big' ones -in my experience- get bypassed

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I agree with what you did, and I would've done the same thing. 10 years old is too old to be crying over a sandwich.

I would've said to my DD, "No, mean moms starve their kids, so be grateful for this delicious sandwich I've bought for you. If you continue to cry like a baby, I will give your sandwich to someone that has no food, and might appreciate it." And yes, I would totally follow through on that.

For future, I wouldn't discuss your parenting with those that aren't supportive of you.

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Yikes. My kids have their moments but this is a bit much. She actually cried after you said you wouldn't switch? I would have done the same as you. However, you said you have been working with her for a "long time" about this. Whatever you are doing seems that it isn't working. We started giving "rewards" to our kids. We give them a token every time we catch them doing something nice and above and beyond what they normally do. Then they cash in their tokens. So when they become more aware of what is "right" then they can start doing it on their own without so many rewards. Maybe you can try that. Not give so much attention to the negative and start to reward the positive. Sometimes you have to really LOOK for the positive to reward it, but then it gets better. Good luck!

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NO NO NOOOOO Way! It was just your daughter right? I would not have traded and if she continued the the crying andharrassment I would have paid for her sandwhich that was made and anything already started by the establishment and then LEFT! IF she kept the tantrum going it would also mean NO GAME!

I did that with my daughter ONCE at age 4. You know what? She is a joy to be around in public because she learned then bad behavior (especially if it continued) meant the outing would end. You have it tough now because this is much harder to do at age 10. And I disagree, it's not "Just a sandwich". This is learning respect for others and what real life is all about.

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You're being a good mother. She's trying to manipulate you by playing the "mean mommy" card. Don't take the bait. I would not have traded my sandwich. I wouldn't have been upset if my child just asked me to trade. But the crying and carrying on after the answer was "no" would cause me to not take her out to eat for a LONG time. Going out to a restaurant is a treat and a privilege, she should be happy to have been taken to Subway. If we get into a habit of going out to eat too much, my kids don't appreciate it, and it's easy for their behavior to slip. Don't dwell on it, just make sandwiches at home next time before softball practice. When she asks about going to Subway, you can remind her that it didn't work out so well the last time, so you're going to be eating at home for awhile.

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Considering the larger context, and what you say are recurring problems with her attitude-- you did the right thing.

Your mom had her indulgent-grandmother hat on. When she was raising you she surely knew what you know now: Teaching kids to take responsibility in small things helps lead them towards taking responsibility in larger things.

The fact that your daughter would ask, and was disappointed with your response, isn't really an issue; any kid this age might ask, and might not like the answer. But her reaction to her own disappointment is very troubling and you'll be glad you're working on it now. Crying? At 10? In public? Most kids her age would be too embarrassed by that; they might get angry but not tearful. And telling you "a good mother would trade with her daughter" in anything but jest is pure manipulation. I can see how it's going to be hard to stick to your guns with her but I also think you can do it. Your response to her was right on.

Just a thought: Does she have any form of caring for others that she does on a regular basis? For instance, does she volunteer in any way, collect food for the local food bank, collect or earn pennies for some charity through her kids' group at school/church/synagogue/wherever, do service projects with a Girl Scout troop, etc., have a lemonade stand to raise money for some good cause? Even Habitat for Humanity lets kids work on some of their house projects - a little labor would be good for her. Sometimes with kid who expects everything to be handed to her, there's a need to get her outside her own comfy world and make her see that others are far less fortunate and she needs to serve rather than always being served. I'd get her involved immediately with some form of charity or volunteering or service work.

Don't lecture her about how it's part of teaching her to be less bratty (though it's just that); tell her YOU are doing this too and make it a project to find the right charity -- something she can care about and/or something close to home, food banks in particular need help these days -- and work on this together. Many charities have web sites with "what you can do" information. Let her take the lead, though.

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I would likely have given her a bite of mine not at all traded with her.
I would have prob said something like " nope I won't trade but I'll give you a bite if you'd like to try it."
But I do think you did the right thing by not switching with her.

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I think your response was just fine. She wanted to be "grown up" and order for herself. You let her. She changed her mind. Perhaps she will learn something from this. Maybe she will take a moment longer to consider all the options before she makes a decision next time. And I doubt that it will apply ONLY to situations involving ordering food.

This may very well cause her to stop for a moment and THINK before she makes some choices about things in her life. I am not talking about the BIG things in life, but the more minor ones that tend to be so much more bothersome to kids: Choosing the blue souvenir tshirt over the red one. And then wishing all the way home that they had gotten the red one instead. Even choosing to spend her allowance or birthday money on an itunes card instead of ____.

You may have indeed begun teaching her a very valuable lesson with this situation. Will she learn it fully and completely after one incident? No. But you seem like you are "aware" of these kinds of "opportunities" and she will have more opportunities to learn in the future. It is the cumulative effect of all these events that teach kids and help them mature.

I say, well done.

FWIW, I don't swap with my kids either. I give them plenty of time to make a decision about what they want. And just before I put in their order (I usually order for them at sub places, to keep things flowing for the employees) I will confirm that their choice hasn't changed while waiting to order.

ETA: and the crying afterwards, and telling you that you what a good mother does?! Where the heck does she get off with that? She is 10. If she is crying over a sandwich she has got some serious issues, in my book. And my children have never been 'mouthy' enough to suggest that I am not making good motherly choices. Good grief. Those seem to indicate to me that she needs a wake up call as to her role in the family as a 10 year old. She didn't get spoiled and bratty all by herself. She needed help along the way to get there... where is she getting that help? Because you need to find the source and eliminate it.

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You did great. You shouldn't have to eat that nasty sandwich that she ordered, ESPECIALLY when she cries over it. She's 10, not 3.

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i wouldn't have traded. Guess I'm mean too!

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You handled it splendidly!! Good for you!

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I have boys, Sweet. I would no more switch meals if I didn't like what they ordered than the man in the moon. Especially if my child were one who tried habitually to rule the roost.

You shouldn't talk about this stuff with your mom. If you didn't act this way when you were a child, she has no understanding that you are trying to teach your daughter that she can't walk all over everyone else.

Hold your daughter's feet to the fire. If you don't, 11-13 will be just awful years. Sometimes they get better in their later teens, but I have a feeling from your description that you'll have a little Cordelia (remember her from Buffy The Vampire Slayer?) on your hands.

You are a GOOD mom by being a little mean. Honest to goodness!

D.

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Generally the "mean" mom is also the good one and is a good indicator that you are doing something right.

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I would have said the same. I've told my 3 yr old, "You chose x for breakfast and it's already made. That's what you get or you wait til snack time."

I think that while as mothers we often feel like we should give in or give up things and take the dredges, what are we teaching our children? Sure, a sandwich is a small thing but it's part of a bigger lesson. I might've allowed my DD a taste of mine, but she would otherwise have to eat what she ordered. It's not that it's "just a sandwich". It's that you've seen this pattern of behavior and want to change it. Being her friend comes later in life. Being her mom now means sometimes not being liked when required.

When she uses words as weapons, tell her you're sorry she feels that way, but x is x. And then don't listen to what she's trying to needle you with. If crying in the past has gotten her way, then she's going to try it as long as it works. Try to work with her on a better reaction.

Funny that you don't think your mom would have traded with the kid-you but she's a softie as a grandma. Grandmas can be like that. They aren't raising the kids anymore.

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My vote - good mother.

I would not have traded sandwiches either. I would have said, "Too bad, so sad. Maybe next time you'll get your order right the first time."

She has to learn responsibility for her choices one way or another. Today is just a sandwich, tomorrow could be something less innocent.

And don't be so caught up in a label of "mean mom". In your kids' eyes, you're mean. In everyone else's, you're enforcing your rules and being a good parent.

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When my kids told me I was being mean, I felt like I was doing my job!!! I wouldn't have switched sandwiches if I didn't like what she had ordered. I believe what you did was perfect. It was a teachable moment. Good mommy!!!

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Well, she IS just a kid, and it WAS just a sandwich, but I think you handled it just fine. I probably would have let her have some of mine, though, since she said she wanted to taste it.

And sometimes, being a good mother means being a "mean" one. We're supposed to be their mom...not their best friend. :)

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Next time say, is it time to play my favorite game? The game of whos the worst mother in the world... let me guess could it be me?? Lol, if you want to complain about your sandwich, Ill eat them both myself and you can go sit in the car. Now thats what a mean mom would do. Your mom would have given in, does she spend a lot of time being catered to by grandma? Maybe thats part of the problem.

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As a picky eater I almost never trade with anyone else. I order my sandwiches the way *I* like them.

You did fine. She can eat a sandwich she still likes (and that you DO NOT). And can remember to order the other one next time.

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You did the right thing.

You're teaching her to stick by her decision and that she can't just change her mind and expect the world to change w/her every whim.

Grandparents, in my experience, spoil their grandkids. They know they don't have to be the discipinarian. But let me tell you those same grandparents most likely did not give their kids the moon. My parents laid down the law & we were expect to follow it. If I try to teach my child something, they think he should be able to have cookies before eating any food for the day etc.

She was big enough to order and it was something she obviously likes so she was fine to eat it. Next time she can order what you got. It teaches them to stand by their choices, watch what they choose & not think they can change on a moment's notice expecting the world to be okay with their changing whims.

I say you did the right thing. You're teaching her, not spoiling her, which is our job as parents (albeit not a popular one).

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Well, if she already acts like a spoiled brat I probably wouldn't have traded. If she was a reasonable kid and it was out of the ordinary, sure I would have taken off the avocado and demonstrated the whole giving thing. I'm fortunate though, I get the giving to me all the time from my teen.

It sounds like that's what you need to do with your daughter. A temper tantrum is not cool from a ten year old in Subway.

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Your daughter sounds like she needs to be treated like that so in your situation you did the right thing. On the other hand I would have switched with my sons but they have much different temperments and never act like brats. Thye are mellow little guys who go with the flow.

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Obviously by your post, she at some point was able to manipulate you and always get her way at some point. Thats really hard to break. But kuddos to you for realizing it and doing something about it. Stick to your guns momma!! No one likes a brat, not a 10 year old one and definitely not a 20 year old one!
Parenting is HARD. No one is perfect at it. But in my opinion, the "harder" it may seem can be attributed to the fact that you are putting a lot of WORK in to it. Your daughter is obviously smart enough to know that her words can hurt yet work to advantage by guilting you. Don't let her do it!
I think you handled it beautifully. You didn't get nasty w/ her, you stated the facts. Taught her a small lesson, and didn't cave in. Great job!
She'll probably get worse before she gets better.But nipping it in the bud now is the best thing you can do. And grandmas are FAMOUS at making us parents feel guilty, like we are sooo mean! PLEASE!! My mom has told w/ my boys "I think sometimes you are way too hard on them. But I know you are right " HA HA!! Such vindication lol My younger two are pretty young, almost 2 and four. But they have been assering their "independence" for quite some time. And while I recognize they are little PEOPLE with their own minds, wants and needs, I am continuously working on showing them that there are consequences for their actions. As well as rewards for good behavior, that people especially mom and dad are too be respected. Believe me, it has NOT been easy. I have had two little crazy men who thrive on pushing limits, and there are days I am exhausted to tears. But if I don't teach them, who will? And if not now do I really want two out of control teenages?
Keep up the good work, it may be awhile but she'll get it! Don't be a doormat!

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I wouldn't have traded. However, I would have told my daughter that I'd give her a little bit of mine so that she could try it (as she said she wanted to 'try" it this time). I also wouldn't have said "because I can't stomach avocado with italian meats," as that basically confirmed to her that it was a gross sandwich that she shouldn't want to eat. I probably would've said that she'd chosen what she wanted, and I had chosen the one that I wanted. Therefore, we would not be switching, but I'd let her try mine so that next time she'd know whether she'd like to order that one. Also, next time I went, I'd order MY sandwich before hers and let her order last, just in case something else appealed to her when everyone else ordered.

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No you were right. Sure it was just a sandwich and trading wouldn't have been the end of the world. However, it was the principle of the thing and next time what will it be??
Next time you go to Subway, you might mention to her to think about what she wants to order and she will have to stick with that decision.
Implying you are not a good mother is just tricks kids this age use to manipulate the situation. The fact that you held your ground and made her stick to her choice tells me that you are IN FACT a good mom. One day she will thank you.
Stop self-guessing. You did good. :-)
Also check out Jim Fay's Parenting with Love and Logic.(www.loveandlogic.com) Awesome books. I used them as a teacher and now as a parent. He would tell you you made the right decision as well.
HTH,
A.

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You did what I would have done. I am big on making sure my kids know that they have control of their decisions. If they want something, they need to ask for it. My 5 year old needs this more than the 7 and 9 year olds.

All decisions have consequences to them - they may be positive or negative, but we as people have to right to make our own decisions. So if my 5 year old wants to throw a fit, then he will deal with the consequence of not getting what he wants. If he wants to behave, he gets the benefit of doing the activity or geting what he wants. It's all about choices.

Keep being a great mom!

ETA: I ditto the trying thing. I like to let my kids try what I have if they want to have it first so they know if they like it or not and we don't waste things. So my daughter wanted the Sweet Onion Chicken Terriyaki at Subway, but didn't know if she'd like it. I do, so I got it that day and let her try it. She liked it and now sometimes gets it on her own.

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I think you did just fine! I would maybe offer her a bite of my sandwich, but besides that, she made the choice and she has to live with it. She can get the other one next time

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Honestly, I would have made her eat it as well. She has to learn to take responsibility just like you said. She must be held accountable for her decisions, even when they are small.

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I'm mean too I guess. What someone else has always looks better unless you're taught to really think about your decision and be ok with it. If your daughter chooses a toy and then decides 10 minutes later that she'd rather have something else after you bought it, do you return and get what she wants? My bet is no. You did fine.

A far as the words as weapons, I think that's a girl thing. I'm sure you have, but I would draw a firm boundary on what's ok and what's not in respect with how she talks to you. My daughter is 8 and she loves to argue with me and at a certain point I just have to cut it off and if she's rude of disrespectful she goes to her room.

A just got my daughter (and son) and American Girl book about bullying... Stand Up for Yourself & Your Friends. Although I don't consider my kids bullies, it did show them how words can be "used". They spotted some things that were enlightening to them as far as things they say, but also how to deal with other people when they use words to hurt people.

Good luck!

Good luck!

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You were being a good mother. At 10 years old, she's old enough to own up to her own choices. It's not on you to shape the world so it's perfect for her.

Does she cry a lot when she doesn't get her way or accuse you of being a bad mom often? Perhaps you have to start shaking things up, and tell her that crying or being rude to mom isn't going to be tolerated anymore - it will just result in missing softball practice (and the resulting game), or whatever other fun things she has planned. I think far too many parents put up with bratty behavior from kids who should know better because no one wants to cause a scene or make their kids miss activities they've paid for.

Edited to add: I just reread my post and wanted to explain that my last sentence is not meant to judge you. I'd probably do exactly the same thing in your shoes. Not trade sandwiches, but not have consequences for my child telling me I'm a bad mom and crying in public at age 10. But I'm realizing more and more that we have to make a line in the sand sometimes and teach our kids that they simply can't cry/whine/yell/accuse whenever life doesn't go their way. Older people talk about how entitled teens and 20 sometimes are, and I think it's partly because their parents allowed them to pout when life wasn't perfect.

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The moment she started crying, I would have paid for the sandwiches and left. She would have been given either nothing or peanut butter and jelly from home, and sent to her game without talking about it. Then I would have given the sandwich to a homeless person. Mama don't play that game.

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You right. I'm having the same struggles with my in laws now. My *eldest* rarely had temper tantrums when it was just us
3. Now that g-parents are here - its like 20+ per day, albeit smaller ones. He cries once and they start offering everything as a replacement prize.

Practicing my patience and mouth filter over here. This too shall pass.

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I wouldn't have traded either.

The thing that would have really got to me was a 10 year old girl crying over a sandwich. It is clearly manipulative. I don't think it is enough to simply not give in anymore. She needs consequences when she behaves inappropriately.

Rather than saying she can order something else 'next time', I would tell her she's obviously not mature enough to order for herself and there would be no next time for the foreseeable future.

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Good job, Mom!

I think if she was younger, like 6 or 7, I would have switched & took off the avacado. A 10 yr old needs valuable lessons like this.

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You were right. A good mother doesn't spoil her child and let herself be manipulated by her child. She can order the other one next time. She's lucky that you take her out for a sandwich in the first place, and that you let her order what she wants is pretty good of you too.

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Really? No big deal, you did fine. Nothing mean about it.

If this were a one time thing situation, I might have said lighten up a bit. Since you have a history of these problems, I think you also have to pick the small battles. Honestly, though. I wouldn't have given her the other sandwich, either...for the fit. I guess I'm REALLY mean!!

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I wouldn't have traded, but I am kinda picky about how I like my subway sandwiches lol

I think you did fine.

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Uhh... forgive me but it sounds like you're blowing this way out of proportion. IT'S A SANDWICH. Your daughter wanted something, she asked for it, you said no. Ok, so she threw a fit. Don't pay any attention to it. She's 10! I remember being that way at 10 too. Then you picked a fight with your mother over it? This sounds harsh, but it sounds like your daughter learned how to be a drama queen from you.

Just let it go.

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You did great. To all the other moms that would have "offered" a bite that does not teach anything. She ordered x and then wanted b. Sorry you get x and eat it. If you don't want that, then you get nothing.

As for the "mean mom" . Good that means you get to learn the hard way. That life is not fair and you can change your mind but that does not mean others will jump through hoops for you. They will see you as fickle and not take you seriously.

She was the first but she is not the only. She has to learn to share the spotlight.

As far as grandma goes. I would let it go and do you own thing and not tell grandma. Grandmas have selective memory when it comes to grandchildren.

You did well and stand your ground. My favorite say, "Who is the parent, who is the child?"

The other S.

PS You being the parent have had a little more time on the earth than the child and have experienced life a bit more.

You weren't mean. What you did and said was appropriate. I'm certain that your daughter enjoyed her self-chosen sub. :-)

HOWEVER I might have asked the sandwich artist if it weren't too late for your daughter to change her order, though, since you don't pay until the sandwich is wrapped and bagged. I'm sure that they get requests like that often.

You were being a good mother. I agree that kids need to learn to live with the consequences of their decisions and what easier way to learn that lesson than with a sandwich!