Switching to Cloth diapers...need Some Advice

My daughter is six months old and we use gDiapers with cloth inserts and love them. Minimal laundry and very cute. :-) And she's never had any diaper rash. I have three of the gDiaper covers for her and 12 inserts. We use the BabyWorks.com Stay-Dry Hemp/Fleece Standard Size inserts (not the newborn ones). You can buy the covers second hand from diaperswappers.com or on the gDiapers yahoo group for around $10 each and the inserts are 6 for $21, I think, so it's very economical. You can just throw the wet inserts in with regular laundry and they don't take up any room at all. Good luck!

1 mom found this helpful

You've gotten a ton of advice here!

I just wanted to say that I switched my two year old over to cloth a month ago, and I won't go back. I do an extra load of laundry every other day and it's not a big deal at all.

There's an online support group I belong to which has really helped me jump in. I'll share the link here with you:

http://www.pregnancy.org/bulletinboards/forumdisplay.php?...

Good luck!

Hi A.,
One of my three children had this same problem. I had used cloth diapers for all three of my babies so I tried using the liners that are placed inside the cloth diapers.... this did not help.
Also it was reccomended that I pin a couple of the cloth diapers around her waist (to make a wrap-like skirt) so as to keep the affected area exposed to the air whenever she was sleeping. Of course the room would have to be a comfortable temp as no covering could be used and also a waterproof sheet.
This did help clear up the rash but it was not a practical long term solution so we started using disposable.
The disposable diapers do keep the skin dryer, I believe, but obviously that is not working for your daughters. Maybe the occasional "uncovering" may help? Hopefully this is just a temporary problem for your girls? Ours did disappear eventually.
The extra detergent and electricity for washer and dryer and then the time and energy and you will have to spend as well as the cost of the cloth diapers may be more of an investment than you would like to make?

May God bless you and your family,
Pam

Hi A. -
We are also making a switch to cloth, and a good friend of mine uses cloth. She's tried several different styles and brands and has settled on Haute (pronounced "Oat"). She swears they are the best out there. They are very easy to use, don't leak, and work well if you don't have a diaper service. Most major websites sell them -- we purchased ours from Nicki's diapers at www.nickisdiapers.com. Hope this helps!

I had the same problem when my baby was 2 weeks old.I used a diaper cream named Butt Paste.I know it sounds weired but after two use only my son was relived . These days its available at Walmart also.One more thing I still do it I wash my son with water and johnson baby wash for every diaper rash and it prevents diaper rash.

Good for you...I'm due in March and after lots of research and going back and forth I'm going cloth as well. Mostly for the healthy bottom perk, but also can't stand the thought of my baby's diapers still hanging around somewhere in 500 years. That said, there is much guidence out there...here are some helpful links! I ordered my diapers from: http://weebunzdiapers.com/index.php They actually sell all of the choices and has a great guide for getting started...how many and so forth. I went mostly with the prefolds...I'm trying both the indian and chinese to see which ones I like best. I also ordered the the prowraps (covers) and a couple of the fitted diapers just to mix it up a bit. Hope that helps,
S.

Hi A.,

www.motheringdotcommune.com has a diapering forum and the ladies there are very helpful. There is a lot to learn! You asked if cloth will help your twins diaper rash. The answer is "maybe". We have found that we have way fewer rashes with cloth, but they do need to be cared for properly. If detergent isn't fully rinsed out, your little ones could get a rash from that.

Hope this helps!

C.

Hi A.,

I used cloth diapers with my boys when they were small too. Your going to need about 12 diapers per child per day and how many total will depend on how often you wash them. I did a load of diapers daily, always keeping a bucket of borax water hidden near the washer dryer area to put them in to soak until ready to wash. Another thing I did was rinse them 1 or 2 extra times in the rinse cycle of the washer to help prevent rashes from any left over soap in them.

A....i have a friend in kansas who makes and sells cloth diapers...if you are interested let me know
jillWV

I use part cloth part disposables because I work outside the home part time. I prefer pocket diapers because you choose the absorbency and they go on in much the same way disposables do. You can get liners that help with the poop so you aren't rinsing as much. Imse Vimse makes a liner that is sturdy enough to hold up to a wash or two if it's just wet, but is also flushable. Kushies makes a flushable liner too that you can get at Walmart.com. You might check out the forums at www.mothering.com/discuss or at www.diaperswappers.com I like fuzzi buns pocket diapers stuffed with prefolds lined with an Imse Vimse liner. I've been eying swaddlebees diapers, but I'm short on cash to buy anything right now. If money is a problem, you can check out www.miraclediapers.com They help low income families with cloth diapers. My 11 week old goes through about 12-14 cloth diapers a day because she doesn't like being wet at all. I hope this helps.

Tkae them off of orange jiuce--any kind. My daughter would get really bad rashes and I also put her on clothe diapers a long time ago. The culprit was orange juice. I even tried to dilute it but she stil got a bad rash until I stopped feeding her it alltogether.

My babies are grown now, but I can still remember alot about them when they were little. They are 27 and 31 years old.

D.

Before you switch to cloth diapers ask your doctor if the rashes could be yeast infections. My daughter, now 3, got them constantly in spite of changing her frequently and using homemade wipes. My doctor had be use monistat cream to treat it. It normally only took 2 or 3 applications for it to clear up.

I had the same problem with all four of my children. The disposable diapers seemed to suck the moisture out of their skin and they developed bad diaper rash. I used a service for a while, but decided that I could save money by doing them on my own. So, I counted how many times I changed them during an average day, and multiplied it by 7, adding a few extra for unusual days. I washed them once a week in the washer with hot water and bleach. In the summer, I dried them outside on a line. The sun seems to keep them whiter. That was just my own thing, the dryer works, too. I opted for the diapers that were all cotton. Some have a thicker area in the middle with some material that is supposed to absorb. I didn't think they absorbed any better. I would advise trying a package or two of one kind for a few days and see how you like them before you sink all your money into one brand and find out they are not what you like. There are diaper covers with velcro and other fasteners, but I found the old fashioned rubber pants and pins were the most efficient. I hope this helps you like it did us!

My neice had this same problem when she was a baby. My sister used everything she could buy in the store and nothing helped. She turned to her older family members for advice and they sure gave her the remedy she needed and it worked. She used a combination of mylanta and corn starch made into a paste and put the paste on my neice everytime she changed her. She used a generous amount. It helps with current rashes and helps prevent future rashes not to mention the money you save. Just mix enough mylanta with the cornstarch to form the paste and add childs rear. This should not harm them but in case of allergic reaction, I would try a little at first to be sure of reaction before using a generous amount. I hope it works for you if you decide to give it a try.

Welcome to the cloth diapering world. My daughter is in cloth dipaers mostly, and I love it! It's a little extra work, but not as much as you would think. My best advice would be to check out www.diaperjungle.com, which is a great resource website. It explains how to clean them and also provides liks to several other cloth diaper websites. The other website to check out is softclothbunz.com. The owner lives in Virginia Beach and will meet with you to talk through all the cloth diaper options. For what it's worth, I use chinese prefold diapers with several different covers. They're much cheaper!! Good luck!

I have never tried cloth diapers and a wanted to for the same reason when my daughter was going through the same issue.But I can recomend a few other things in case cloth diapers don't do the trick.I switched to an all natural die free diaper,which I found at my Grocery store in the whole foods section.Also I have found 2 wonderful products I love.Baby Avalon Organics soothing zinc diaper balm and Silky cornstarch baby powder.Also California Baby, Non-burning&calming Diaper area wash.(my daughter calls "butt spray")These things have worked wonders for me and since I have switched to these products No more diaper rash!I was able to go back to regular diapers after that,because the others are a little more expensive.But sooooooo worth having that beautiful smooth baby bum back!Also letting them soak in an oatmeal bath and then air dry as long as possable does wonders.Just sit them on a towel with some toys naked and don't worry about the mess.Good luck to ya!
Rahael F

I used cloth diapers with my first son. He also had very sensitive skin (the only wipes we found we could use without serious rashes was Pampers Sensitive), and they worked wonderfully! For car trips and whatnot we used Pampers Cruisers - the absorbent gel they put in other brands and other types of diapers more or less set his bottom on fire! I don't remember what brand we used, but we did the pin-able rectangle diapers, with vinyl diaper covers. As for how many you need, you should probably purchase enough to cover the average amount of diapers/day you use now, for at least 4 days. Or for however long you want to go between doing laudry times two. That should be enough to cover even diaper intensive days without forcing you to launder every 10 minutes :) We purchased a large plastic diaper pail, which we kept with about 3 inches of water with Borox dissolved in it to drop dirty diapers in. This made the laundering much easier, and the staining much less!
Good luck!

You used to be able to buy them from The Stork - a local diaper service. They are a very good quality diaper and I definitely would recommend this. They could probably guide you on a #. I also loved fuzzy bunz diaper covers. they fit well and rarely did we have a leakage problem as a result. I found that i could order them directly from the company (online) for as cheap as others were selling them (if you buy several at a time). the good thing for the future is that used ones sell for about the same price as new. good luck - baking soda in the diaper pail is your friend - you can buy a huge bag at Sam;s. The stork also had disks which smelled good for the pail.

A.~
I do not have any suggestions for the cloth diapers..but my daughter used to get awful diaper rashes, so bad it would bleed and the doctor told me not to use desitin. I switched to "Butt Paste" and gold bond powder. The "Butt Paste" worked awesome on her sensitive skin. You can get it at Kroger...it is a little pricey but worth it.

Hi A. M, my 3 mo. old daughter has been using cloth diapers since she was around 2 weeks old. They were too big for her little buns right off the bat. We are using bum genius all in one pocket diapers. There is a new version out recently called 3.0 and I would certainly invest in those. They're supposed to fit 7-35 pounds. They are around $18 each, and you'll want to start with a few to be sure you like them. I have around 17 diapers and I need to do laundry about every other day. Check them out on line and let me know if you have any questions. http://www.bumgenius.com/one-size.php
Good Luck! -C

I see someone here said to you vaseline. DON'T. go to walmart and get MONASTAT. They are more than likely allergic to their own urine and is causing a yeast infection. Don't use any type of diaper wipes get bounty papertowels, get the liquid soap that you use on them, put a tiny bit on the towels while getting them wet, stick them in a ziplock bag and there you have wipes without all that stuff in them, even using the towels wet with no soap will work. I had a son who was allergic to his urine and nothing helped but this and 30 minute daily baths.

A.- Congrats on making the switch. I've been CDing by son for a year now and its great. No rashes or issues at all. I highly recommend Fuzzi Bunz and I say to purchase about a dozen. It's a bigger upfront investment than Pampers but remember you don't have to buy more and that you can sell them when you're done for more than half what you paid.
One big plus for me has been to have a diaper sprayer. It attaches to your toilet easily and lets you spray off the solids.
My best advice is to find an online cloth diaper community to get support. I love Hyenacart. You can also buy diapers on there but they have forums for asking questions and getting answers. Having support and knowing some tricks really helps.
I hope I helped!
M.

Hi A., I didn't use cloth diapers so I can't offer advice there. However, I do have valuable info regarding the diaper rash. Arbonne International has an herbal diaper rash cream that is light and water-repelling that relieves sore, dry, chapped skin. It soothes diaper rash, redness and irritation. It has been highly rated by Pregnancy magazine. All of the Arbonne products are botanically based, certified vegan, contain no animal products or by-products, contain no mineral oil, dyes or chemical fragrances and less than 1% preservatives. I am an Independent Consultant with Arbonne and would be happy to share more information with you and help you order products. visit www.wholelifewellness.myarbonne.com

Hi. My name is L.. I have cloth diapered my two girls age 3 and 1 right now. If I KNEW about cloth, I WOULD have used it with my son as well....anyway, both of my girls have VERY sensitve skin. they are both allergic to regular disposable diapers. I use cloth at home, and these new..FABULIOUS diapers called 'gDiapers' I LOVE THEM!!! they are FLUSHABLE, but safe and ok for tash cans if you would rather. They, unlike disposables, take 50 to 150 DAYS to decompose!!! EACH disposable takes 500 YEARS!! Check them out at gdiapers.com...i get nothing for refering you...but tell them I did..they know me, i'm a 'gmum'.

You have to be a little careful with washing cloth, but there are TONS of websites and different methods. If you want to email me off this list you can. ____@____.com I'd love to chat cloth diapers with you! ;-)
Hope this helps!
L.

p.s. I don't have to scrap poopy diapers, because I use liners in my cloth, and gdiapers are thrown away or flushed!!! no diaper sprayer, or scrapeing poop for me!!

I've done both cloth and disposable. If you want to do cloth, I'd recommend the big thin ones -- they are easier to customize the fold than the pre-folded and you get less leakage. They also dry faster in the laundry.

I don't think cloth diapers reduce diaper rash -- especially if you use a vinyl cover, and my little toddlers obviously prefered disposable. (A sign that it was time to potty train, I thought.) Cloth is much cheaper and probably better for the world. A friend gave me some velcroing breathable covers that visually showed when a change was needed. I liked that better than the old-fashioned pin method.

Switching my wipies to warm water on a soft Bounty or Viva towel rather than commercial wipes did reduce rash in one of my babies. For a while, I made wipes for going out with a recipe from Tightwad Gazatte, but using no-additive commercial for going out and just water for at home worked fine. Once a child gets a rash, a bath and then a half hour of (clean) bare time often makes it better. I have a friend that loves Lotrimin powder for persistant rash, but I never had reason to try it.

I can ask one of my friends who did cloth diapers.
I have one suggestion for the diaper rash though. When my son gets it, I just rub some of my ReNew Lotion (Mela product) on there and it takes care of it. There's also a recipe for home-made wipes (chemical free)that many of the Mela moms swear by! They say it completely eliminated any diaper rashes. Just a thought.
J.

Hi A.,

I live in the UK but used to live in Berryville, VA. A good friend of mine is an expert on real nappies. If you would like, I can put you in touch with her. She's great! She started using real nappies while she was doing a teaching fellowship at St. Andrews in Scotland with her 5 week old who was suffering from major diaper rash. As I'm sure you've already found out if looking into cloth diapers that there are tons of chemicals in disposables that can lead to diaper rash among other things and most of the products used to cure diaper rash are made by the same companies that make disposables. Anyways...like I said I am now living in the UK. I am due at the end of April and will be using cloth diapers. I actually have a real nappy advisor coming over for tea Monday morning to give me a demo. My friend does something similar in the Northern Virginia area...not sure where you're located...but she's extremely helpful. As a baby shower gift she got me a basic starter kit for real nappies. If you'd like her email address I'm happy to pass it along to you. Like I said she's done the research and is a wealth of information when it comes to cloth diapers especially in concern to diaper rash. Her son's diaper rash went away and no more BLOWOUTS!! Hope this helps! C.

I don't think cloth diapers are the answer... rashes are caused by dampness down there, and with cloth the baby's even more exposed to the dampness and ammonia in urine.

I remember Pampers Baby Dry gave my daughter a rash every time, but the kind of Pampers in the purple package were great. Zinc-oxide-based rash cream never worked for us, the only stuff that worked was kaolin clay powder. Magick Botanicals makes one, and you can also buy straight kaolin clay on Amazon and even at art-supply stores (it's all the same stuff). It also works well on adult hives and blemishes if you make a paste with water.
Good luck!

http://www.amazon.com/Kaolin-Powder-Clay-lb-Frontier/dp/B...

I agree you should join diaper swappers. And in terms of it helping with a diaper rash it totally depends on the baby. Eith6er way if you switch to cloth diapers it couldn't get worse and you would be saving money. I sell a bunch of great diapers. gigglemybaby.com email me if you have questions about different kinds ____@____.com

Hi, A.,
I think it's great that you are going to use cloth diapers.
That was a committment I could never make. My younger two boys had problems with any diaper cream that was white. I think it is the zinc oxide. It seemed like the minor diaper rash would get worse with a desitin type diaper cream. I ended up using plain old A&D ointment (not the new one). It's a weird yellow-orange color. The boys cleared up within days. I don't know why this was a problem with the younger two as my oldest son never had issue with diaper cream. Good luck to you.

I am using cloth right now for my 6th child and washing them myself. It has been no big deal. I have used cloth and disposable with my other kids and have found that cloth is easier on the skin. I am using unbleached chinese cloth diapers and prowrap covers. To get started with cloth I suggest going to cottonbabies.com. They have tons of good information and sell a variety of products.
steph c

I've heard some kids are more prone to diaper rashes WITH cloth diapers (because they aren't as absorbant). However, I have 2 friends that use them, and they're happy. It is more work than disposables, have you tried switching brands? I know several people who's kids had reactions to the Huggies brand. I've always like the Pampers Cruisers and my boys hardly ever got rashes. Good luck.

Sometimes babies get rashes due to foods they eat. If you are breastfeeding, great! If you are starting to add solids to hte baby's diet, go slowely. Some foods should not be introduced until the child is one year old. My son got a rash once from the soap I was using. I found out he was allergic to perfumed soap. AF

I would recommend trying some yeast infection cream (monistat or generic version, the kind that you would squeeze into the applicator) first or some antifungal cream. My son constantly had diaper rash and when I started using the cream it went away. I eventually started using the antifungal clotrimazole cream (Equate antifungal=generic athlete's foot cream)because it is stronger and works faster. I was breastfeeding too and he was getting these red angry rashes that desitin would not help. Try it because it may be a yeast rash.

Hi A.,
I don't personally use cloth diapers. There's enough laundry as it is, I couldn't imagine having to wash diapers as well!! I understand you wanting to switch though. Since your twins seem to have sensitive skin, I just want you to take into consideration the type of detergent you use when washing the diapers. You don't want that to become an issue.

You may want to first try all natural diapers. They are breathable, plastic free, have no elemental chlorine, no perfumes, and no smell. Plus there are environmental benefits. Here is a link to one brand I know of:
http://www.gdiapers.com/happyplanet

When my son had a persistent diaper rash, we were told to try anti-fungal cream in addition to a zinc oxide based cream. Our pediatrician also recommended a product called "Butt Paste." When those didn't work for us, we tried a product called Domeboro Astringent Solutiion. It finally cured his rash!In order to prevent rashes now, we frequently apply cream, like Aveeno, to his bottem that is good for sensitive skin.

I hope my suggestions are of some help. Good luck!

I don't know about cloth diapers, but I can tell you the best diaper cream EVER is stuff you get on-line that my mother-in-law turned me on to called Penaten. I highly recommend trying this first. It's amazing!
http://www.smallflower.com/penaten/penaten.html?utm_sourc...

First, I don't use cloth diapers. But my daughter used to get diaper rash, and rashes on her skin regularly. I use Aquafor and Burt's Bee's Diaper Cream. Aquafor is awesome, it clears up all skin irritations. I slather it all over. If they have red bottoms I use the Burt's Bees Diaper cream and it will clear up the red irritation in a day or two. I am not sure that cloth diapers will be the answer because they don't absorb as much away from the skin. I tried several brands of diapers on my daughter and found the Pampers baby dry to be the best for her. Of course using cloth is easier on the landfill.
Hope this helps a little.
Megan (mom of 2 yr old girl and 4 month old boy)

Sorry I don't know anything about cloth diapers but as far as the rash you may want to talk to their doctor it could be a yeast infection & not diaper rash my friend had that with her little boy. When my daughter gets a diaper rash her doctor told me to use Vaseline.

I use the gerber day or night super absorbent (I've only been able to find them at Target). They are 6 ply I think, but you'll know because the middle is quite thick. I just do the old fashioned pins and vinyl pants. It was an adjustment at first but my girl is better on rashes now and I have more money in my pocket! My water bill hasn't even gone up and I do a load every other day. (half load with a cap full of bleach). Once in a while I put a diaper doubler in the fold of the diaper for nap time or if I know I won't be able to change her for a while. You do have to be more vigilant about changing though. I put her in disposables overnight and trips only. It has worked out well for us. I tried some of the new types of cloth diaper covers etc and just found that the simplest works best for me. I have 3 packs of the Gerber all day super absorbent for one girl and we do fine with that. I have about 10 vinyl pants and 3 sets of pins.

I recommend checking out & becoming involved on Diaperswappers. There are several local moms who are on there & the community is great! You can get lots of diapers second hand. I have an entire stash that I only paid about $200 for & I can cloth diaper from 4 months-potty learning.

A.,

I have a friend whose children have very sensitive skin, but they found out that the children are allergic to the zinc-oxide in the diaper rash creams. They have to go online to buy a special cream that is zinc-oxide free. Also, I know it's rather early to be thinking of this, but is it possible that they are ready to potty train? My friend's kids kept getting rashes because their poop touched their skin. If they didn't use the potty, they would get rashes. Like I said though, it's rather early to be potty training, but I have seen 1 year olds who are trained. Hope this gives you some ideas and you find what will get rid of the rash.

Hi A.!

I'm a SAHM to one 6 month old boy & I have tried them ALL!! After a referral from my friend Kimya I ended up LOVING "goodmama diapers" the most!

They are an investment! Buying 12 will make your head spin...however I was paying out the rear for G diaper refills (again and again) without blinking. (.40 a diaper refill= $120 a month! The Good Mama's paid for them selves in 3 months) Now I don't have to budget anything. We own all the diapers we need for the next 14 pounds of my sons life! ...and on top of that we feel good that we aren't contributing to landfill waste.

http://www.thegoodmama.com/ or ebay. (you can even *gulp* resell them when you're done! People buy used covers!)

You can order the wish box if you want to take the plunge right away, or just try out one or two for awhile. My little man uses 1 cover a day and 5-10 "soakers" depending on the day. We haven't had a leak or blow-out yet!

You can also feel good because they are made by a SAHM and her family!

Happy Diapering!

I just want to point out that food allergies CAN be an issue even if you're breastfeeding and introducing foods slowly. What YOU are ingesting may be something your babies are allergic to. My now 6yo had horrible diaper rashes, and we tried everything-none of them worked. His Dr finally gave up trying to cure them and told us to use balmex with every change. At 18 months, just after I weaned him from the breast, we took him to an allergist (despite the fact that all his bloodwork came back negative for food allergies!) and he suggested a milk-free diet. Within one day of removing all milk from his diet, my son had his first normal (solid) stool, and within several days, his rashes were GONE. With my second child, we knew what to look for and I removed all milk and milk-products from my diet (which was horrible for someone who drank 1/2 gallon a day!) while nursing, and he had none of the problems his brother had. Unless I cheated, and had some milk product, and then he had diarrhea and instant rash just like his brother. It just may be worth looking into.

When I had cloth diapers I enjoyed a cleaning service (pick up/drop off) and found some balm ointments to be quite good and non-alcohol ointments. I would check w/ your dr & inquire about "Bag balm" from a Vermont catalog, it is now at Walmart too. But your dr would be a good guide on any topical ointments.

I am switching my 3 month old son to cloth diapers also. I have done a lot of research and the one thing I get from everything I've read is buy different cloth diapers (pre-folds, contours, fitteds, AIO) and use them. Each is good for different reasons and it will truly depend on your lifestyle. We have chosen to do both pre-folds (Indian cotton) and fitteds (goodmama). One of the most highly recommended detergents is Charlie's soap. You only use a tablespoon of the laundry powder per load and it rinses completely clean. The left over residue of most detergents you buy at the store can make your cloth diapers ineffective.

Good luck to you! I hope you enjoy the switch. Please keep me posted of how everything goes.

D.

I have had 3 babies and with each one I used a diaper service (which I loved). I used A&D ointment with each diaper change and never had a problem with diaper rash, personally I think cloth diapers are much better for the babies bottom, unlike disposable diapers, cloth diapers allows the bottom to breathe instead of the absorbant material sitting next to their skin because it's not showing signs of wetness.
I say go for it!

I just recently made the decision to try cloth diapers and I am very happy with the brand I chose. They are called bumGenius and I ordered them through Amazon. Here is the link...
http://www.amazon.com/bumGenius-One-Size-Cloth-Diaper-Twi...
They are a very modern cloth diaper and the best part is that the are one size fits all, so you don't have to spend the extra money purchase S/M/L as your children grow. I would suggest purchasing 8-10 per child. I wash them in Oxyclean and that seems to work well. A friend of mine had her husband attach a sprayer to the toilet to use to clean the dirty diapers out and she really recommends that. Also, I've found that the Triple Paste diaper cream works the best. I'm not sure what kinds you have tried, but I only need one application of this stuff and the diaper rash is gone. Hope this helps!

I don't know anything about cloth diapers, but I do know that desitin never worked for my son. Your problem may be solved easily by switching diaper cream. Have you tried A&D? I have tried almost every cream out there and that always gets rid of rash. Good luck!

I did the cloth diaper thing with my oldest, now 13! It was great back then before the advent of "Ultra" detergents. I used Kushies waterproof velcro covers, invested about $300 into the whole system figuring I'd use them for all my kids. We washed them ourselves which was really fine. My husband was a hoot - hooked up a garden hose sprayer to "power wash" the icky ones. Then came baby #2. By then all the detergents went "Ultra" (the condensed little puny boxes that you buy now, versus the old big ones you remember growing up.) Even though we read all the don't use detergents and only used the ones on the list...aparently even the previously OK ones had gone this route and it was so common, they didn't put ULTRA on the packaging anymore. Result...$300 of unusable, very leaky covers that were totally ruined :-( and I gave up saving the planet in that way.