What would you do? I signed up my son for guitar lessons. He is in 9th grade. He took lessons last year and loved it, but took a break for Cross Country and Summer activities. He begged me to sign him back up.
So the only time slot open is 3pm (after school). I work, so I told him he would be responsible to get there on his own.
Our house and his school are all within a one mile radius.
So he missed his lesson two weeks ago, his excuse was that he left his house key at home. I said I understood, but I am paying $85 a month for guitar lessons you begged for, so if you miss again, that is it.
The following week I arrived home from work and asked how were his guitar lessons that day.
"Ohhhhhhhhh! I totaly FORGOT!!!" he says with this surprised look on his face.
I said, "Well, that's it then."
He acted angry for a moment, did not mention it again.
Today I tried to call the music store to settle up the account. They make you sign up for auto pay, so I wanted them to send me a statement.
At that point I am told by the store associate that the previous month is paid, the current month is being billed now, and there are an additional $118 worth of charges on the account. "For what?" I asked.
They then proceeded to tell me that my son had charged several music books, Nirvana, Pink Floyd, etc and that was what those charges are. They are from last month, prior to me even stopping the lessons, so it's not like he's getting back at me for the whole lessons fiasco. He just decided it was okay and never even asked me.
I am furious that the store would allow a 14 year old boy to charge anything to my account without my permission. I am VERY upset that he did this and hid it from me, not even realizing that he would get caught.
I told the accounting person to BLOCK him from being able to do that ever again. I told them NOT to charge it to my credit card, because we were going to have to figure out how this was going to be paid off.
Now I am left with trying to figure out how he is going to earn the money to pay for all of this. And glad that I have time to cool off before he comes home from school today.
What would you do? How would you handle this situation? I need more advice...
Thank you everyone for all the advice. It is good for me to read everyone's reactions.
I had all day to get over being angry. And then his father and I decided that we would let him continue the lessons because it's the only thing he's ever shown an interest in. The only way it would continue though, is that I would pick him up from school every Wednesday and drive him there myself.
The second thing I decided was to remain completely unemotional. I went home from work yesterday, asked him to accompany me to the store to buy milk and told him during the short drive to the market that I had spoken with the music store, they had informed me of the charges, and how did he plan on paying for those items? Very matter of fact, no emotion in my voice.
He did not say much, not a big story, or a bunch of excuses. He couldn't blame it on his teacher, he just said, "I don't know."
I told him I had spoken with the store manager and she said he could return those items if they were still in good condition. Or, he owed me 12 hours of labor to pay for those things. He had a choice and he had until the end of the evening to let me know.
Last night before I went to bed, I went and asked him what he had decided. He said those items were not really in great condition any longer, so he would work them off.
I have several work projects lined up for him already. His grandmother needs several things moved in her basement, a neighbor man needs some yard work done, etc.
I blocked him from being able to charge anything to the store without my permission.
Apparently, according to the store manager, students have an account for 30 days to purchase items related to their lessons.
These items, however, were not related to lessons. She told me they don't "police" the students. I told her that he was going to have to pay for these things - they do not go on my credit card. He will be taking the money he earns and making payments to the account each week until it's paid off.
I REALLY believe the key here was for me to not show any emotion whatsoever. He got no payoff for upsetting me - and he has to make amends for what he's done. Black and white. Action = consequence.
Thanks so much Mamas! You are awesome.
Merry Christmas to him! If he has no means to pay for the books I'd tell him that they will be part of his Christmas present.
First I would get his side of the story. I do think however that he should pay for them no matter what. I think at 14 years old he knew he wasn't supposed to be getting those - since he never said anything to you. I also think he probably missed the lessons because he had gotten the books and was hoping you wouldn't find out about them. What about calling the music store and see if he can work the money off for them ? He can sweep, clean, put out stock and books. Just no dealing with money. Would they agree to something like that ? Worth a shot.
Wow, some very tough responses here. But I agree with Christy -- before you ream him, talk to him. A kid this age may have little clue about how the store charges things. It could even have been a case of the teacher suggesting "If you want to try more rock stuff, look at these books," and your son thinking that, as Christy put it, these were somehow loaners or even were covered in the payment for his lessons. I would just ask him how he came to get the books and what he understood in terms of how they would be paid for -- and let him answer. Don't plant the idea of "the teacher made me do it" but see what he says if you approach him without anger but with an attitude of "OK, these books are in your possession; you have to now take me through exactly how that happened."
Given that he flat-out forgot a lesson, it's also possible that he totally spaced on the books and forgot to tell you about them rather than intentionally covering up the fact. It may be that he lied, but I would give him a chance first to see what he says.
Are the books non-returnable? You don't mention whether you asked about that at the store and I would think that would be the first question to ask.
If after a calm talk with him you feel that he did intentionally use the credit there and did not inform you, either out of forgetfulness or because he assumed you'd be fine with it "since it's for my guitar lesson," set him straight without "tearing him a new one" and lay out how he is going to repay you not only for the books but also for the missed lessons. I would not make him pay for other charges that the store may have charged you, other than the books and the actual per-hour dollar amount for the time of the two missed lessons. Yes, he should work off the money somehow through chores. And he should be clear on the fact that next time he asks for something that you pay for, there will be a lot more work involved on ensuring he wants it enough to get himself there.
I will add that some music stores find ways to tack on a lot of charges for this or that, and ways to lock you into contracts for lessons and then you're hit for lessons you didn't use "because you didn't cancel by date X" or whatever. You usually have to give a certain amount of notice of ending lessons, and if you don't give that notice, you are on the hook for lessons anyway, per the contract. Just something to remember if you do this again. Good stores are very clear about their policies regarding lessons and ending them, but some chain stores are pretty lousy about it.
I also would write the store a strongly worded letter about how you were never informed that contracting with them for LESSONS actually opened a "line of credit" there that a minor would be allowed to use. I might even threaten them that you are going to send a copy of the letter to the local Better Business Bureau -- and then do just that. Send it to the Chamber of Commerce as well and tell the store you're doing that too.
This is an opportunity for a great lesson in money managing before college.
It may have different charges but it's a common lesson for kids his age.
It would be best if you talked about it in a firm but calm mannor.
Tell him these are the facts as I know them, and lay them out.
Ask him his story about the situation.
Ask him how he plans on paying you back either by work or money.
Ask him how he could change the situation so this would never happen again.
Ask him if he knows he can return things with the recept and show him one day.
Show him how he can set reminders for things such as lessons. (college classes)
Remember you want to talk to him in a mannor that helps him take responsibility but also teaches him disapline. Yelling at him and shutting him down will not have the effect you want in the long term. There are good lessons to learn here about sales pressure and returns and the basic fact that things have to be paid for. The fact that you need to know about money spent from your accts. Have you tried to teach him to save for the things he wants? He needs an allowance, not, here's the money, don't spend it all in one place. Let him save for lessons and music books. It will mean so much more.
Before you tear him a new one, make sure he knew what he was doing. You know what, he may not have known he was charging it to an account. Maybe he thought it was a "loaner" and that had he continued his lessons he could bring it back. Maybe he was under the impression it was a part of his lessons?? I know you think he should know, but I remember my first facial and the gal asked me if I wanted this or that done - i said yes and ended up with a bill double what I went in with because I thought it was included.
That said, yes, he must work it off either in real job $$ to pay you back or in-kind chores around the house. Whatever you are comfortable with.
Heck, any way he can get a gig and use those skills and books to pay back some of his debt?
You could also consider a trade in or selling the books/guitar if he isn't going to continue. . .
Good luck.
Yep, that's pretty bad. He's old enough to know better :(
I assume the stuff can't be returned, right? I would take away whatever he holds dearest (internet? video games? phone?) until he works off the debt.
Do you have a yard, and garage? Put him to work, physically. Yard work, washing the cars, cleaning the garage. If you need some painting or deck staining that needs to be done have him do it!
When my son got his first traffic ticket he had no money to pay for it so we had him cut down several overgrown bushes at the end of our driveway. He had to cut it down and bundle it up too. He's been a careful driver ever since...
It sounds like there are bigger communication issues between the two of you that he felt it was okay to do this (or the only way to do this).
While the music store should not have let him have an open line of credit, you still owe them the money for the books. I would pay them now and figure out how he is going to work it off later. Worst case scenario make them his Christmas gifts and that is all he gets from you.
In the meantime open up the line of communications between the two of you before this continues to snowball out of control.
I agree with Christy J. You need to calm down and find out what happened from his perspective. Give him a chance to be honest. If he did know he was charging these to your account and that he didn't have your permission he needs to have a related consequence. Treat him with respect as you figure this out with him. Ask him how he intends to pay for these items.
I suggest that paying for the items either with money from a job or by doing chores is a natural consequence. No need to take away other things at this point. Save that for later if this doesn't work.
I also suggest that you rethink stopping the lessons. Missing two lessons should not be an immediate deal breaker. Have a calm talk about whether or not he really wants to take the lessons. I would stop them now, not so much because he missed the lessons but because you need to use that money to pay for the items he purchased. If you are not able to get a refund for the balance of the month, I would insist that he go; teaching him to keep his commitments. But then I would stop any further lessons until the situation with the purchases is taken care of. Then, I'd have another conversation about whether or not he now is able and willing to take the lessons seriously.
He's a teen. Teens are frequently scattered in their thinking. The idea is to teach them how to behave more than to punish them for misbehavior. You want him to become more responsible. Make that your focus.
Do not "rip him a new one." That does not solve the problem. This is a great opportunity for teaching him to be honest, to ask before he buys, as well as how to show respect even when one is angry.
And..... I'd rethink my anger at the store. Again, you need to calm down and ask them why they charged these items to your credit card without checking with you first. I suspect that they assumed he had permission to charge them. This would be a reasonable assumption to my way of thinking. It would be expected that a student would buy items to use with their guitar. It is not their fault that your son did not get your permission.
Two thoughts here...
Dealing with your son (who is certainly old enough to know better). Talk with him directly. Let him know what happened, how much money he owes you and how this has damaged your ability to trust him to "do the right thing" without you right next to him. In my opinion there are two "crimes" here, so there should be two consequences.
1. He needs to repay you. I would "credit him" minimum wage rate for household responsibilities. Have him do something outside of the realm of what he would regularly be expected to do- cleaning out the garage/attic, scrubbing the kitchen or bathrooms, cleaning all of the windows. Essentially he "owes you" 15-20 hours of work depending on the rate where you live.
2. He needs to re-establish your trust. The next time he wants to do something that is reasonably within the expectations for a 9th grader (walk somewhere alone, extend his curfew, etc) say "no" and tell him why. Do this a few times until he shows you that he IS responsible and that he understands why there are "rules".
I would also write a letter to the music store. There's no way they should have allowed your son to charge ANYTHING to your account without your written consent. It's not their "fault" that he made the purchases, but it's damn sure their fault that someone (other than you) was allowed to make "unsigned" purchases on your account. That is NOT OK! Make sure that they know that your son will be working-off his debt, but they should be calling the person on the account ANY time someone else tries to make a charge.
My son is 13 and I think knows better than to do something like that but if he did he would lose all privileges for quite some time and he would have to do extra chores to earn the money back. He probably thought since it's not something you pay that it's just drafted that maybe you wouldn't notice it. If my son did that he would not be able to sit down for a while either. Yes I believe in spanking a teenager if they deserve it!!!
Good luck and God Bless!
I would also be furious, but a few minutes of reflection and reading some of the other responses, I can see how this could have happened without your son realizing how substantial the costs were. It could have been a fast-talking salesperson who told him 'go ahead. We'll just charge it to your mom's account.' without telling him how expensive the books were. I'm sure your son did not think that the music books would add up to $118.00.
I would have a serious talk with him, asking open-ended questions to see exactly what happened and then make HIM come up with a list of things he can do for you or others to earn the money to pay for the books.
I think he'll learn his lesson.
I am sorry, I disagree with most of the posters here. He is not a clueless 5 year old. He IS old enough to know better. He "forgot" about the lessons and made excuses. He "forgot" about the music books. I call b.s. He's not a baby & he's not an idiot. He's a shifty teenager. If 14 year olds are this clueless, I'm seriously scared to see such beings on the road, driving a vehicle in 2 short years.
Who knows, maybe he thought if he didn't attend the lessons, that the money would be applied towards the books. I knew that you didn't take things you couldn't pay for WAY before age 14.
Sell the guitar, for starters. Anyone who was passionate about learning how to play it would've "remembered" to get to his lessons. He can either work the debt off in the form of chores of your choosing, or he can pick some things to sell, or come up with another way to repay you (lawnmowing, pet walking, garage sale, etc.). There are plenty of ways for an underage kid to obtain cash.
If you don't get a handle on it now, he will push & walk all over you. Time to get tough.
I would first make sure he understands what happened..
Or maybe. He felt a little uncomfortable saying no to the salesmen?
Or does your son have a history of lying to you? I agree with Christy.. He may really not understood what he was doing..
He didn't ask because it didn't matter because he didn't think. I would get the books and take them back to the music store. Then I would sit him down and explain the concept of money. Its mine not yours. If you would like some, go get a part time job, start cutting yards, deliver a newpaper, whatever. And by the way, you are SO grounded!!!!
As for the lessons, I would stop until he can show he is responsible enough. Also, was it raining on those days for lessons? Maybe he didn't want to walk in the rain? I don't know, I pulling at straws here!
The store is also to blame and I would get real nasty with them. Regardless of him being your son, YOUR name is on the card not his. He was not authorized by you to get the mechandise. Personally, if they won't take the stuff back, I would tell them that you did not authorize your son nor the store and thus they charged something to your account illegally. I don't know if that would hold but if you make a big enough stink, you should be able to return the books.
Get his side first, but he should still work to pay it off even if he didn't know what was happening (which I find hard to believe). Then tell him to get a rake and go door to door to see who wants help with the leaves. It's hard for a 14 year old to get a job outside of handy work around the neighborhood. I think he needs more than just chores around the house. I think by asking neighbors for work will hit him harder than just working for you guys.
He should have to sell his guitar to pay for some of it. Since he won't be taking lessons anymore, he won't need it.
Then he'll have to get a job to pay it back. Itemize the bill. He can mow lawns, walk dogs, etc.
The important thing is you teach him that he CAN fix his mistakes, but it takes a lot of work. So one should just be more careful not to make them in the first place.
Also, he needs help organizing himself. He needs a calendar. That would have helped him get to his music lessons.
I sort of agree with both points of view. Your son is old enough to know that you don't just walk out of a store without paying for something. Clearly, someone is paying. But I agree with Christy too -- maybe he wasn't quite sure of how it worked. They will sell you the moon if you let them and he may have been talked into it by the sales person who doesn't care who pays.
I think you need to talk to him, ask him open ended questions about how he walked out of the store without paying for something himself, where did he think the money was coming from etc.
But then he needs to know there are consequences for this behavior and he'll have to work it off however you see fit. If he was pressured by his instructor who told him to get these books to help him practice, then he's learned an important lesson about being taken advantage of and he has to pay the price. Your son needs to go into the store with the books, with you in tow and try to convince the store to accept a return. Hopefully, he saved the receipt. But books are not like music, they may be able to be returned.
HE lied. HE is in 9th grade.
He did these things behind your back.
YOU TELL HIM POINT BLANK... what you found out.
You make him pay for it, and you MAKE HIM RESPONSIBLE FOR finding a way to earn that money to pay you back.
He needs punishment.
No privileges anymore. For as long as you see fit.
Are you a single parent or do you have a Husband?
HUSBAND has to, with you... sit the boy down and lay down the consequences.
There is no way I would put up with this.
Do not, sugar coat anything.
Do not worry if he gets pissed off at you.
HE is the wrong one.
And he betrayed your trust.
Do NOT... do anything for him and tell him he needs to FIND A JOB to earn the money to pay you back. He can do yard work for everyone in the neighborhood etc. You TELL HIM point blank... HE NEEDS TO FIX THIS. NOW.
I would be PISSED, and would SHOW Him that I am pissed.
Why worry about cooling off before he comes home from school?
SHOW him that you are pissed, TELL him you are pissed and disappointed in him. This is way... wrong.
Definitely get your sons side of what happened. Look over your contract n see if it says anything about additional charges, if not, write an email and/or certified letter to the company explaining that this charges were not authorized, and you did not give written permission to them to allow your minor to make charges to the account. Let them know you plan on disputing this with your credit card company as well as writing to the BBB if they can not take a return on the items. If they give you a hard time you could possibly contact an attorney and have them write a letter to them on your behalf. This is usually a small fee, maybe around $75 or so.
I would also take a tally of all charges, even missed classes. Figure out the cost of each class from your total monthly fee, and that is something he has to pay for, as well as any other legal fees or charges that come of this. Once you tally that total, that is his bill. He will have to sell things or work it off. Take the items he plans to sell and hold them. Help him post the ads on Craigslist or eBay and whatever is left after the total is paid, is yours as well, for pain & suffering. Lol ;0) your time is money and now you have to take the time to call and write letters, send emails, possibly even get an attorney. He should pay for your time and the headache he has caused.
Best of luck to you!
I would find out if you can return the items he took. They should never have let him charge anything so they do have some responsibility here. They should be able to work out something for you.
A 3pm time is not a very good time for a school kid btw. I would have told him they didn't have a time he could take. Then let him wait until something else opened up and made sure there was someone to take him.
What is one of the things or activites that is most important to him - computer, tv, ipod, hanging out with friends? It's gone for the next month.
Next comes extra chores so he can "earn" back the money.
Demand he give you all the music books. If possible, return them. If not, wrap them up as Christmas gifts.
As for the store, they should not allow a child to charge to your account without your permission. I would have them prove that you agreed to this (it may be hidden somewhere in your contract). If they can't prove it, then refuse to pay for it. Also, write a letter to your credit card company advising them that "the music store" no longer has authorization to charge your account.
Can't return any of the merchandise? I guess you just have to pay it off-and hopefully your son will be able to help. Going forward-I would tell your son that whatever he does-especially if it involves money-you will always find out-maybe not right away-but eventually. Good luck!
