This particular issue has passed but I just want to get everyone's "take" on something that happened. Yesterday, my daughter (age 4.5) and I went with her best friend's family (bf (5), mom, sister (3), and grandmother) to a young child-centered theme park. The park itself is irrelevant other than to say it is for young children and the only way older kids were there were if they were there w/ their younger siblings...really geared to kids up to about 8 or so (more on the younger side). We had a wonderful day but we did have one incident that bothered us all.
We were in their small "splash area" and it was not at all busy (maybe 6 kids total including our 3). A few minutes later a few more showed up. A little girl that appeared to be 4-5 years old decided to "zero in" on my daughter but was being all around bratty and mouthy to the point of being a bully. The grandmother I was with told her a time or two to leave the other kids alone and play nice. After running her mouth to my girl, she shoved her. I am all for letting kids work things out on their own, they need to learn how, so I just watched for a minute. My daughter pushed her back and went back to playing. Then this girl's older sister (I presume) who appeared about 7 or 8 walks up and the younger girl starts mouthing off again. Her voice was raised and I could clearly hear her say "Small, bigger, big" as she points to the three of them..."so you're small and she's big so you better move or I'm going to push you again?". The other mom say "Hey, stop that?". The little girl kept on and pushed my daughter. The BF and little sister walk up and the BF starts telling her to leave her alone. There were other parents around but not one was reacting as if she was theirs (no interest at all). I decided I was going to have to at least go into the water area and intervene. By the time I walk around, my daughter has went behind the mushroom alone and won't come out so I know she's upset. I go back there to check on her and here this little girl comes again and starts (I couldn't tell you exactly what she said because I was trying to talk to my daughter). The bigger girl comes over and the little one says "Her right there (pointing at my girl) let's get her, let's splash water in her face". I spoke up with "Please leave her alone and play without picking on other kids". She said "Well she was on MY hole" referring to one of 12-15 holes that shoot water (which she was not even close to at this time". I told her "she's not there now and there are plently here. Go have fun". My daughter's friends walk up and the three run off together playing. By the time I get back to the other mom, the bully is at it again. The other mom asks the guy next to us if that is his daughter and it is so she asks him to intervene and he says "Well, what is she doing? I just saw someone push her". All this time and he sees someone push his child but misses everything else that has transpired even though he was looking in the splash area the whole time? How does that happen? The other mom told him that she was being a bully and the other kids had started pushing back. So he calls the girls over but still acts like nothing happened. The mother is outside both the watching area and the splash area talking on her phone so she has no clue. We end up taking our kids out of the area and move on to other things while drying them off. At that point more people started coming in the area but until then there was no more than 10 kids playing.
So my questions are what do you think..were we wrong to have expected parents to intervene/say something to at least discourage their daughter's behavior? Should we have let it go longer before we said something? or do you think we should have said nothing?
Thanks ladies. Just to clarify, this splash area had one small entrance and the only place to stand without getting soaked is right at the entrance so it blocks the entrance if too many are standing there. Grandma was standing there while me and the other mom moved to beside it so we could take pictures...we were actually only about 10 feet from the girls (but had to go around the whole length of the area to enter and reach them). I guess because of the nature of the play area and the ages of the kids, there was not an attendant. Maybe a nearby attendant for the ride that was there is supposed to keep an eye but I really think they leave it to the parents. I did provide feedback recommending an attendant be in that area.
Grandma said something when the girl first started before the other mom or I saw or heard anything. As the other mom was saying something as I was dropping my phone so I could get around to them. From the time the first push happened until we had the girls leave the area was only I matter of 5-8 minutes. The only reason I even hesitated was that my daughter did stand up for herself. As soon as I saw it wasn't enough, I intervened. The older sister actually didn't do anything but stand there it was the little sister that was misbehaving. We didn't let it ruin our day.
My daughter's best friend said "Why is that little girl so mean?" and we told her "Because she wasn't taught to be nice." So the girls all learned a good lesson. Thanks again.
I wouldn't have left. I would've found someone in charge & told them there are kids in there bullying & pushing other kids & they are not being supervised.
I had a "friend" with kids like this, and she would get pissed if someone accused her kids of starting something, which they ALWAYS did. You can't reason with adults like that. It was embarrassing to go out with them, and my DD was the victim of her kids more times than I can count.
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I think you let it go to far before intervening. If the parent didnt make any effort to parent her child the instant she bullied yours, she wasn't going to stop her as it escalated. I would have gone over and told all of the children in a loud voice that its not ok to bully and they need to play nice or move to another area. IF that didnt stop it, I would find their parent and confront them. I am NOT ok with watching my child be bullied and just let the other children hit them or push them. Until children are able to and comfortable enough with sticking up for themselves, the job of the parent is to do just that---stick up for them and protect them.
M
You ask if we think you should have expected the parents to intervene, should you have let it go LONGER, or should you have done nothing at all? Are you kidding me? I would have at least gotten close enough to let my presence be known to the other little girl and been able to hear what was going on! Let it go longer or do nothing?! To be honest it seems like you really didn't do anything at all. That's your child being harassed right in front of you and you let it go on and on. You step in, take your child out of that situation and talk to them about what happened and why you did that. You don't let her get terrorized!
I think you were right to expect parents to intervene but I would not have been surprised they didn't. There is a reason this child is a bully.
You definitely should not have waited longer. I think I would've intervened sooner and would have left the area sooner. Some things we cannot change. This little girls behavior is one of them.
It doesn't seem fair to have to leave but then life is frequently not fair. It's important to protect one's self.
I would have said something sooner, but that doesn't make how I would do it more right then you! There was nothing you really could have done. Kids like that, are not born bullies. They are not given attention, boundaries, and discipline. They are allowed to do whatever the want, hurt whoever they want, and are never at fault. (According to the parents.) Like Dawn said, messing with the wrong person, or the law usually catches up to them. Long story short, you probably couldn't have done anything to stop it...so next time...maybe, it would helped your daughter to not let it go so far. She was really upset, so maybe stepping in before that would have made her feel better. BUT, it wouldn't have done anything to make the other kid stop bullying others. You did fine.
Oh my gosh, I am so like you..I also would have stepped in and tried to get the kids to leave the other children alone.. Some parents are just clueless.
I never posted this but at the beginning of this summer we were at a Fuddruckers Burger place and there were 6 kids (about 9 and 10 years old0 KICKING and THROWING a soccer ball inside the restaurant! Then they also started throwing a small football around the place.. I was shocked that first their parents did not say anything and then that the management did not say anything to them.
This was dinner time so this was a busy place.. My family just looked at me in horror.. I knew they wanted me to leave it alone and so I did, until these kids almost hit an elderly woman with the little ball. I could not find an employee that was not already super busy helping customers, so I walked over to where the kids were and asked them" where are your parents?" Of course they looked at me like they did not know.. But there they were all standing around laughing and talking.. I asked them if "they were these children's parents?"..
At first none of them said anything so I said, "well if no parents are here, I will call the authorities.". then a mom said "we are parents.". I asked them, "are you actually sitting here while your children have been throwing balls inside this restaurant? This is unacceptable behavior and parenting.. "
They just all looked each other as though I was the crazy one.. I told them about the kids behavior the entire time we had been there and said I "was shocked that they would allow their children to behave like this."
It blew my mind.. It looked like a soccer team and their parents. The kids all had on their shirts and shorts..
Sorry, I just had to share this.. I know EXACTLY why you had to intervene..
I'm going to say the kids are learning this behavior from there parents, so I wouldn't have expected them to help. I'm curious though, was there no park attendants or life guards? Usually places like this are staffed and it is there job to intervene if necessary.
I am notorious for stepping in if a child is acting inappropriately. Not only do I call the kid on the carpet but I also call the parents on the carpet. I don't allow it and I don't care who it is. I'm really very harmless, but I must not come off that way because I get results. I have made mouthy teens apologize to their parents. I have taken toys from children who are throwing them in stores. I usually require the children to tell their parents what they have done and we go from there. I also root for good parents and compliment them on their parenting. I would have stepped in far before you did.
I'm curious why you let it get as far as you did. As soon as the girl shoved your daughter I would have been over there so fast her head would have spun and I would have brought her over to her mother. Your daughter had already been defended by your friend's mother (why wasn't it YOU?) so the girl had ample warning about her behavior. It should never have reached the point where your daughter had to physically defend herself at the age of 4 years old.
That's my way of saying that you should have intervened long before you did. It would have saved a lot of grief and those girls wouldn't have bullied your daughter for so long.
I applaud you for staying calm for so long!!! I would probably have stepped in earlier, but that is just me. No, I do not think you were wrong, the father of the little girl was wrong!!! I dont want to blame the kid because at that age it could very well be a learned attitude. the parents should have been watching their kids. had my son started pushing other kids it would have been a quick swat on the backside and then home, no questions. we dont allow bullying of any kind in our house.
Sheesh, I don't think it could have gone on any longer! If that were my child being picked on, I would have opened my mouth ALOT sooner than you did!!!! There is no misunderstanding or confusion that your daughter was being picked on AND targeted, so I would have A) said something to the girls, B) made their parents aware the first time C) and reminded them that the water holes were for everyone.
I'd start off gently reprimanding the child, parents cant see everything they may be busy with other children but after a while Forget scolding the kids its kinda not their fault no one cares enough to pay attention to them. I guess I'm the bitchy mom who would be saying "whose kid IS this? Is anyone watching these kids?"
Gotta love non-parenting parents.
Good for you for intervening. This gives you a great opportunity to talk to your daughter about being a good person & that there are all types of people in this world. Also let her know this is why you teach her the things you do so that she becomes a good person throughout life & you are her teacher in life.
I think it is possible he just saw things differently than you. We all have a natural instinct to protect our own children, and maybe what he saw was his daughter defending her little sister after she got pushed. You should have simply intervened yourself earlier.
As soon as it turned physical I personally would've intervened. I know from some of the kids around here that have some attitudes that you can't be all "please" and nice. You don't be overly mean, but you have to have a firm assertive voice with them. There is no way I personally would've let it escalate to the older girl getting in it. The dad may have the "my child can do no wrong" mindset if he really was watching the splash area the whole time. I think the situation went on too long and maybe some of it had too much sugar coating on it. I would make it clear to the girls in a firm respectful way that none of those holes belong to them and any child is free to play on whichever one they want, move your feet you lose it.
Some parents just don't care and the kids may actually get that bully attitude from their parents so they are just perpetuating the cycle. Honestly I can handle the kid's bullying respectfully and firmly nice, but I'd have a hard time keeping the temper in on a grown adult that claims his child is doing nothing wrong. If he really only saw her being pushed then why wouldn't he intervene then? Anyways, I wouldn't have left or been out of the area. I would've kept a close eye out and get on the girls if they couldn't act nice to the other kids in a respectful firm way and if dad feels like I'm stepping on his toes then, by all means, he can start being a parent lol. I am in no way mean to kids at all, but I do know that you have to be firm and no smiles.
I agree with other moms too, you did great intervening like you did :)
See this is the basic problem. We all would jump in and help stop someone from hurting our own kids.
But, if the bully isnt being hurt, their parents are content to sit back and let her rip on everyone else. The only thing her father saw was she was pushed once, which was true, but to him, it didnt matter after it was done, what she was doing to others as long as she wasnt being hurt anymore. Had any other kids started to give her a bad time you can bet her parents would have screamed at your kids and you making it sound like their precious little angel was being misteated. They only care when its their kid being hurt. So, no they wont get up and do anything about their kid being the bully.
I would have moved closer to them when the mouthing off first started. After the first push I would have intervened, meaning I would have scolded the child who pushed first. I would have said, loudly, "EXCUSE ME! THAT'S ENOUGH! Keep your hands to yourself!" Then I would have stayed there until the child moved away. I've noticed that bully kids tend to have bully parents, or at least aloof parents who don't care, or don't pay attention, and dont' intervene, so don't wait for them to jump in. It probably won't happen.
some parents just don't want to be bothered, and that is sad. The mom is probably the same way. If there was someone working there and it kept up, I would have notified them possibly. But kids will always run into bullies, so they do have to learn how to handle it. But I do think you did the right thing.
Oh I am such a wimp...but yes, I would have said something after the first push. I am all for letting them work it out on their own, but anyone putting hands on another person and the mama intervenes. ;)
So to answer your Q's: No, you were not wrong to say anything. No, you waited too long, IMO. And yes, of course you should have said something. And the fact that you addressed the dad is very brave, IMO. I would have addressed the child loudly so dad could hear-like I said: wimpy, wimpy, wimpy (me). :)
Good job, Mama!!! :)
