"So Far as I'm Concerned Any Adult Can Discipline My Child"

Don't worry about the new norm or the old norm or the mamapedia norm. You just see a cross section of people talk on here. Not everyone sees the same questions or bothers to answer them. Some mothers feel that way, some don't. You just keep doing what you're doing - in fact, you are doing JUST FINE!

It takes a village to raise kids - we all know that. Not every parent is willing to let the village help ALL the time, but it's up to the parent. And it has nothing to do with "a new etiquette".

The worst thing you can do is try to be trendy. You just keep doing the right thing, whatever that is to you and the people you are with!!!

D.

4 moms found this helpful

Another mom asked a similar question just a week or so back. She noted that other parents didn’t hold back on correcting her child, and wondered if she was the only person who didn’t correct other children if their parents were present. You might be curious about the range of answers she got. (http://www.mamapedia.com/questions/15965984023830986753)

When I was a young mom, I personally was never too touchy about this. When I was little (in the 50’s and 60’s), it seemed to be simply accepted that available adults would “help” each other by interceding sometimes with each others’ children, and individual moms seemed less likely to take offense. (But of course, I was seeing it from the child perspective, not the mom perspective.) I think there was probably a stronger sense of being part of a whole society with common goals. And there was much less political divisiveness creating a sense of “us vs. them.” Families were less cocooned and separated, and more likely multi-generational (although there was definitely a strong trend toward ‘single home, single family’).

There are some real advantages to this “it takes a village” world view – the child begins to understand that some boundaries are more or less universal. They begin to internalize the need to follow rules, realizing that they won’t get away with things just because their parent is not looking. All these adults reinforce each other’s messages, creating a sense of ‘civic duty’ or civilized behavior. The child may hear essentially the same rule presented in different styles, which can help some little brains internalize better. Increasing a child’s flexibilty is generally a very good thing.

That so many modern moms seem so easily offended or distressed by the (usually) well-intentioned ‘help’ of others suggests to me that many of them are feeling a little defensive about others’ opinions of them, perhaps even more than a natural defensiveness about people treating your child respectfully. I, too, felt some of that as a young mom. When I looked at it closely, I realized that other moms reinforcing my message was really a good thing. After that, the only thing that would have offended me would be someone screaming at or striking my child. But those things never happened.

Of course there are often good reasons to butt out. For example, timing is a biggie. If a mom is clearly having a stressful exchange with her child, neither she nor her child will benefit from another adult trying to interject competing values, opinions or techniques. (On the other hand, if a parent is clearly abusing a child, it may be the right thing to butt in. That’s a tough call.)

So this familial independence/isolation that seems so prevalent now strikes me as unhealthy, unnecessarily defensive, and exclusionary toward moms (and dads) who might otherwise be real assets to each other.

3 moms found this helpful

in the past, our culture wasn't as diverse as it is now, people had the same ideas about what was ok and what wasn't. The Beave"s mom wasn't going to let him do something Opie's aunt bee wouldn't let him do. Now adays anything goes. Mom's arent on the same page.

so to me yes, your gf is the odd one out, she has a friend that parents the same way she does, that is pretty rare. In your example, first it was so nice of you to check in with her, but if she was sitting right there and chose not to address the open door then it seems insulting to me that you would correct the little girl when the mother had chosen not to. If she was busy or out of the room then to me that is different. There are times when i choose to address certain behaviors my children have and at other times, i know them well enough to know that they already realized they made a mistake and i want to give them the chance to apologize on their own, If someone else jumps right in them my child never learns that they need to take it on themselves to say "i made a mistake" plus they feel extra bad and embarrassed on top of it. So in an instance like that i will watch and see, if no aplology is comign ina reasonable time, i will go address it, but I am THE MAMA and i know my kids best, so there maybe a reason for why i choose to be inactive at that point.

3 moms found this helpful

i disagree with a new norm. i think it depends on the mom.

i dont mind if other people tell my kids to stop running towards the street or not to climb onto a wobbly toy or something, if i didnt see it first!

but if there is someone telling my kid what to do when there is no danger in sight, that bugs me. like if the parent is just getting annoyed. thats just wrong. you have to know boundaries with people, i think. common courtesy and such.

3 moms found this helpful

i think that, as a whole, quite a few mothers (maybe not fathers) will correct a child if the child is in danger or potentially harming someone else. On the other hand, quite a few mothers are too worried about what some crazy parents :) might say if someone tries to correct there child. i was in Sams Cub one day and my daughter was tired and cranky. They had a huge playhouse set up and I let my daughter go in and play. Well, when I took her out she started crying. And by no means was she a quiet crier. There was a couple walking by who looked at me and my daughter and said that I needed to take her out of the store because it was ridiculous. I got pissed. Every baby cries. she was just over a year old. However, my son likes dogs and when he went to pet one before i could tell him to make sure, someone had said to not pet the dog because it could be dangerous. that i didn't mind. i think that there are boundaries, but it's just hard to know where they are with some people.

3 moms found this helpful

If you were a stranger in the department store bathroom who shut the stall door because the girl "forgot" to close it before pulling her pants down.. your friend might not be so "open." For all she knows, you as a stranger could be a pervert...so there's no way to tell how she'd react really.

I know in cases of reprimanding children...If you were a stranger who yells at her kid for being too loud in a restaurant or movie theater, she'd probably be livid.

I think the circumstances that day were different. You are a friend whom she is very comfortable with. She has a level of trust with you that she will not have with a complete stranger. Believe me, if you were all out in public and another parent crossed boundaries and told her daughter what to do or reprimanded her for bad behavior, you'd see some fangs and talons come out for sure! LOL.

Disadvantages? You bet! Your child might possibly find herself in a dangerous situation because she won't have a clear sense of boundaries if everyone in the village is a parent and authority figure. Giving her a sense that she has to listen to anyone older than her, no matter what might mean trouble if she is getting "helped" by the wrong stranger (someone with bad intentions).

One day it could undermine your authority, if the child pits another adult against you to either get her way or cause tension.

I say, boundaries are important. We shouldn't erase them.

Short of a child's life being in emminent danger, I personally would not interfere. That's a great responsibility, and as I already said, it undermines the authority of the parent. I certainly wouldn't like it if someone told my child to do something that I don't agree with or think is safe...even if that person "perceived" I wasn't responding appropriately to something my child was doing.

I might not have a problem with my child squirming in the restaurant booth at Perkins. What if my child has ADHD or something where they can't easily control their behavior? But the cranky old lady across the way thinks I'm a horrible parent who can't discipline and confronts the child in front of me? Sorry, but short of my child actually kicking her booth or throwing food her way, the old lady (hypothetical) should keep her mouth shut and keep her opinions to herself because she's not the parent and doesn't know our circumstances or our child...hypothetically speaking of course! LOL.

3 moms found this helpful

My friends have an understanding that any of us can discipline any of our children. I would also speak up if a child was in danger or putting another child at risk of harm.

On the other hand, I dared speak up at a public gym one time to ask two young children to stop deliberately throwing their balls at me on the sidelines. Their mothers (half my age) jumped all over me as if their "babies" could do no wrong... I learned to pick my battles...

2 moms found this helpful

Personally, I don't think you can make any sort of blanket statement about it. There are SOOO many different scenarios in which it would or would not be appropriate or ok. If I leave my child in another adult's care-- be it a friend of mine, a friend's mom, a class, birthday party, whatever-- then I have spoken personally to the adult in charge before I've left. That person will know what I think is okay either b/c they know me, or I've told them specifically AND my kids will know that that adult is in charge and they have been raised to respect appropriate authorities. Just b/c someone is older than my child does NOT mean that my child has to do what they say to do. BUT, that requires some discernment on the part of my child. And we, as the parents, have to teach that skill to our children. Some random person in Walmart has no authority to tell my child squat. But a store employee can say "you can't go down that aisle, it's closed for a cleanup" and my kid better not go down that aisle. (Not that they would be in there without me... but, just as an example). At the same time, someone who means well can tell my child " wait for the machine to stop spinning before you walk up there" and it is plain common sense--but something my child hadn't thought of on their own maybe.
A lot also depends upon the ages of your children. If I am sitting right there--- I don't really expect my kids to need discipline by someone else unless I am distracted and don't see it. But at the same time, if we are at someone else's home and their rules are more stringent than mine and the mom says to my son "Don't ___" then of course she is absolutely entitled to do so, and good for her for correcting what is against the rules. My kids know that people have different rules in other homes and that they are to (within personal boundaries and reason) to follow those rules.

So, it is really an impossible question. There is no absolute answer--it is always going to be "it depends".
My rule of thumb is sort of this: Assume that I care and am distracted maybe, but never assume to usurp MY authority over my child.

2 moms found this helpful

I agree with your friend ... it takes a village.

2 moms found this helpful

Depends on the situation, of course, but I tend to err more on the side of protecting other children from danger, and being grateful if someone did the same for my son. My own son, FWIW, is generally the careful, cautious type. But I also care part-time for my nephew, and this little guy is the one of the most joyful, uninhibited, act-first-think-later kids the world has ever known. It WILL take a village, if not a major metropolitan area, to raise this child. And as an auntie, I'm grateful to every adult, older kid, etc., who has pulled / will pull him out of traffic.

On occasions when I'm in a position to redirect someone else's child, I also try to do just that -- redirect / distract the child in a safer direction; I leave it to the parent to talk to the child about danger, issue punishment, etc.

Interesting question!

2 moms found this helpful

I have no problem correcting another person's child if their manners are completely out of control and/or their behavior is dangerous to themselves and/or others. I don't care if that hurts the child's or the parent's feelings at the time. I'll explain myself if necessary but it's not normally a problem even if the child and parent are strangers.

When my friends have birthday parties for their children I stay. I help them out by watching all of the kids. My good friend J has pool parties so freaking huge that she invites family friends, cousins' kids, and both of her childrens' entire classes (her children are three years apart but share a birthday). Guaranteed, there's always one child whose behavior is freakishly out of control without a parent stepping in.

Last year there was a boy (10 years old) from the older sister's class who took a water canon and kept squirting the younger brother in the head with it. He also kept doing this to most of the younger children as well. He was malicious and cackling over the kids crying. He would also take those pool noodles and hit little kids in the face with them to knock them over.

So I chastised him kindly but firmly. He snickered at me the first time. The second time, he was shocked that I chastised him again. That time I warned him that if he shot a canon in another child's head, especially their face or ears, again that I would take it away from him and find his mother for discipline. He did it a third time so I took it away. His mother wasn't there so I restricted him from the pool and water slide and the water toys. My friend thanked me. When the mother came to get her kid and my friend talked to her, the mother was horrified. But apparently he's the class bully. I wasn't shocked.

2 moms found this helpful

I don't think of reminding a child to close the bathroom door as discipline.

My kids are now 16 and 12. I believe it is not appropriate to discipline or correct someone else's child when the parent is present. If you are in charge of someone else's kid, then your rules apply. Someone else should not step in to discipline your child when you are there, it is your job. It's one thing for someone to ask your child to remove their shoes or leave their cup in the sink because of the rules in the house, but that is not the same thing as discipline. When you are present, you are in charge of discipline and it is not anyone else's responsibility. If a parent can't see that their toddler is too close to the pool, then of course you should step in, but again, I don't consider that discipline. Correcting someone else's kids when their parent is there to do it is crossing boundaries. If my kids were at someone else's home and I was not there, certainly I expected that they followed the rules of the house and listened to what the adult in charge told them to do. If your friend wants anyone to feel free to step in and discipline her kid when she's there, she's simply being a lazy mom who can't be bothered to do it herself. Don't let other people know that they can discipline your child when you are present. Discipline and reminding them to close the bathroom door are two totally different things.

2 moms found this helpful

I think the only answer to this question is to use common sense.

If my child is about to run into the street or climb on something he shouldn't, another parent (friend of mine) sees this and I don't, of course they should speak up. They wouldn't be much of a friend if they didn't. And of course, I would do it for them.

If someone's child is about to harm me or my own children or another child, I would without a doubt speak up. I would, again, want another mom to do the same with my kids.

Now, if the parent is right there and sees what is going on and it is clear the parent is going to do or say something and it is NOT affecting you or your children, probably time to butt out.

Each scenario is going to be so different, so if you use good judgment each time, you cannot go wrong. Do for other kids and parents what you would want them to do for you.

Of course there are disadvantages to her strategy, as another parent could disicpline her child for something she didn't deem punishment worthy. But, her friends and other adults around her children should be pretty aware of her boundaries. (ie no spanking, etc).

The way to let other moms/adults know they are OK to discipline your child, within reason, is to simply make clear you trust them to make decisions about your child when you are not around, and make those decisions as close to your standards as possible. Make sure they know your standards.

2 moms found this helpful

Well, I don't think asking your friend's daughter to close the door was "discipling" her...just reminding her of bathroom ettiquette. And that kind of thing would be fine with me.

The only time I'd want another adult to "discipline" my child would be if my child was in direct harm (running out into a street) or harming another child (hitting or throwing things at them) and I'm NOT around (maybe I'm tending to a boo-boo on my other child). Other than that, leave my kids alone.

I'm pretty easy-going with my kids - and it may not be in line with how another mom is raising her kids. So, for example, if my child is climbing up the slide and NOT in the way of another child, LET HER BE!! I think that kind of thing is fine. *You* (general you) may not, but that's fine. It's not like I'm going to make your kid go up the slide, right?

2 moms found this helpful

I think as a mother we should all correct a child if they are in harms way. I would appricate help I mean we can't be everywhere. Some of the stuff not dangerous or just talking and being annoying or something should be the mother.

1 mom found this helpful

It depends on what the "discipline" is. I would NOT expect or tolerate any adult spanking or otherwise using corporal punishment on my child. I would absolutely be fine with -- and expect -- a child to correct my child if she were going to cross the street without holding a hand or something similar.

If there's a situation where another child is being unkind to my child, I would think it most appropriate to first bring it to the other parents' attention so s/he could discipline as they normally do. However, if the other parent wasn't there or wasn't correcting the child, I would find it appropriate to tell them that they absolutely must not hit/bite/etc my child and to separate the children.

Updated

It depends on what the "discipline" is. I would NOT expect or tolerate any adult spanking or otherwise using corporal punishment on my child. I would absolutely be fine with -- and expect -- a child to correct my child if she were going to cross the street without holding a hand or something similar.

If there's a situation where another child is being unkind to my child, I would think it most appropriate to first bring it to the other parents' attention so s/he could discipline as they normally do. However, if the other parent wasn't there or wasn't correcting the child, I would find it appropriate to tell them that they absolutely must not hit/bite/etc my child and to separate the children.

1 mom found this helpful

HAha! I was raised the same way, to respect my elders. Any mom in the neighborhood was allowed to discipline us, and we listened. Theses days it is so different! I don't know why some mom's today feel so threatened by another well meaning adult looking out for their child! We were at the playground and a little boy was way up on top of a climbing jungle gym, he was trying to stand. I told him, be careful honey, I don't want you to fall. His mother promptly came over to me and told me not to discipline her child! (And was not very nice about it!) I was just trying to make sure her child didn't break his neck! Another time we were at the park and a little girl was being very mean to my girls, following them all around and even hit my one daughter! Finally my girls told her to leave them alone. She then moved on to some other children, who also quickly moved away from her. Her mother came over ranting and raving about how dare the children (all of them collectively) pick on her child and tell her what to do. No, parent had said a word! I was going to tell her her child was the one picking and being mean (I was ready to take my chance w/her at that point!) but all the kids told her how mean her kids was being! Well, she then told her child to behave, and walked away. Humm, no wonder the child behaves that way! My girls are taught to respect others as well as adults. They know better than to behave that way. I would hope if they were in danger or being that rude, another parent would tell them to knock it off! I don't know how you would go about telling anyone that you are ok w/the discipline. I would just be careful about practicing what you preach (so to speak!) since it does seem o many others are not happy about it! I don't leave my children unattended, so this doesn't happen often. I would never be ok w/anyone touching (ie: spanking, etc...) my children, but words are ok. I think most children know they are acting up anyway, but if they are allowed to get away w/it, why wouldn't they? I can't wait to read the rest of the responses, I too wonder about this!

1 mom found this helpful

Well, most of our freinds and family are free to GENTLY discipline our daughter. It is true that there are situations when it makes sense that an adult other then Mom or Dad will have to discipline a child... and that is ok!

That said... I think parents need to err on the side of caution. If there needs to be a serious intervention, the parents really ought to do it if they are present. My daughter was bit (pretty badly) on the cheek by another girl at a kids party... YOU BET I let her mama take that one. (I stopped her daughter and fetched her mother... but didn't enforce a punishment myself) First off, my daughter was hysterical (she thought she was getting a kiss!) Secondly, my mom protectiveness kicked in and I knew that it would be hard for me to fairly discipline this other girl in the situation... plus I didn't know if the girl was a repeat offender, or if my daughter was the first to be "vampirized".

That said... I can enforce a time out on someone else's child... but if mom or dad is there, I'd RATHER they do it. I don't mind solving toy-sharing problems ("if we cannot share, no one gets this toy!"). I think you should always step in to a dangerous situation if a child's mom and dad are not there to notice... and then inform the parents ASAP. That said, I do think punishments should be on the gentle side, unless the parents have given specific instructions. I try to think of how a teacher would discipline a child, rather than how a parent would... Also, if a child doesn't know "your rules" they should get one free 'warning'- like "no, at our house we don't stand on the table during dinner... don't do it again, please"

As far as ettiquette goes... well kids need discipline. Ideally mom and dad provide it... but sometimes other people will have to. It is good practice for when they reach school-age and beyond. In the real world we have lots of rules to follow; the law, our personal rules, religious rules, family rules, social rules, work rules... and more... depending on the situation we are expected to act differently. Learning how different people "do things" as a child will prepare them for encountering all these situations as they grow up!

-M.

1 mom found this helpful

Well there is a new ettiquette. I however dont agree with this new ettiquette and I believe children should not rule the house. Thats is why we have rules.
When my children have friends are over and the parents are over I have no problems telling them we dont stand on our furniture and so forth.
I believe in manners and basic graciousness

1 mom found this helpful

These's a huge gap between correcting and disciplining. By all means correct, I totallly correct other peoples children and have never felt it bothered them. But you cannot discipline another persons child unless they have given you the green light in advance. What my sisters and I do with eachothers children is mention when we saw somthing that is discilinable. I ask, "does she need a time out?" Sisters and friends will say if they think the behavior was punishable, but only the parent administers the punishment. Certain people know they can punish my child, Grandparents (though they never do) and one aunt thats more like a grandma. Looks like your friend has given you the green light to correct, but I'd clarify if she has really given you the green light to punish. Thats unusual.

1 mom found this helpful

Different people have different ideas about what is and isn't acceptable discipline. If my child is in danger, I would hope that anyone close enough to do so would save her.
But I do not want someone else taking it upon themsleves to step in and start disciplining my child in a manner I don't spprove of, especially when it may be behavior that I permit.

If my kid is at your house, she has to refrain from doing what you forbid, even if I permit it at my house. Likewise, she has to refrain from doing what I forbid, even if you allow it at your house.
But it is still MY job to deal with any unacceptable behavior.

1 mom found this helpful

I don't teach my kids to blindly obey all elders. Some elders give bad advice!

However, any adult can provide guidance to my children and my children are expected to respond politely. They may obey. They may ask clarifying questions. They may politely request that I overrule that guidance, if they believe that adult is incorrect or unsafe. The parent has the final word.

As a courtesy, non-parents offering guidance should leave openings for parents to add information and/or overrule, as you did beautifully.

The easiest way I've found to communicate this to other parents is to say to my child, in the other adult's presence "We are visiting her home, and she knows what the rules are here. Please make sure to ask her about the rules if you aren't sure."

1 mom found this helpful

I think it takes a village and if my friends don't like if I correct their child then I am sure we can find activities to do when the kids are not around. They also have my permission to correct mine. I would support anything they told my kids to do in front of the kids too, if I had a problem with something I would talk to them away from the kids.

1 mom found this helpful

Something like that, I expect anyone who sees it to step in if I don't right away. Me and my neighbor dad are like that. We correct kids in a respectable way. Around here, there are tons of kids with NO adult supervision because their parents are lazy as hell (witnessing, I know they have no disabilities or anything). I constantly watch and correct a 2 yr old that is allowed on a main neighborhood road with NO adult supervision.
As far as friends, yeah we correct each others kids after giving a reasonable amount of time for the friend to respond, unless it's something petty... unless it is dangerous (walking in the road) then immediate action is required :)

At Zions National Park, my mom felt like we HAD to go because she was tired so we had to ride the shuttle from the last hike to the first drop off (where you park) which has a lot of stops... not a good idea for a 2 year old. She started getting hard to get along with when we had 3 stops left. The older lady beside me was sweet and said what's wrong baby when I was tryna get her in her seat (she was standing up in front of it) and was whining b/c I wouldn't let her out (she was by the window). The lady was like Oh dear, who's the boss and my daughter pointed to me so the lady said we sure don't won't you to hit your little head on the floor if you fall. She was really sweet and non judgmental about it and my daughter sat down lol.

*sigh* Sue W, parents like that annoy me. I would've apologized for my kids actions.

Manda F, I TOTALLY agree with you. I'd have someone arrested for that too. I don't believe in spanking. and yeah, it depends on the situation. If it's a word that isn't a cuss word or it's just something small that bugs you leave it alone.

S S, that would've pissed me off too (sams club couple).

1 mom found this helpful

How nice - it really takes a village. To answer your question, I would do as your friend did - respond when it comes up.

My kids are older and I felt the same way. I hope that the new mommies out there are open to help and advice, and know that they don't have to go it alone. As a new mom, I did not have all the answers, nor was I with my children 24/7, so it was OK for others to help them on the way to adulthood, learning that there are many people who care for them, and one way to show it was to help them learn the lessons of the day.

Some of the old ways (the village) are/were good - probably less likely of children getting into some trouble.

Afraid that some of the "new" is what sets up "my darling wouldn't do such a thing" when some never know what the little darling is doing anyway ... and covering for it....

I don't think it was "discipline" either. But I fully expect others who are "in charge" of my son to correct him--be it a friend's parent when he's at their house, a teacher, a baseball coach, etc.
When my son goes to a buddy's house I often tell the parents "feel free to correct him just as you would your own kid(s) b/c I feel it's a "my house/my rules" situation.
I find that most parents feel the same way, so I'm not sure why you're getting a different perspective...?

I would not have anyone discipline my child unless there were in serious danger. Meaning help them not lay a hand on them. I have talk to other people kids to stop or watch out for other children if I see its going to end up really bad. But, NO one is allow to just teach my kids a lesson just because they think they should. Talk to me and I will handle it.

I am a firm believer in the saying "it takes a village to raise a child". Just don't tell ME how to discipline my children.

Nanc

I am definitely ok with people I know or people whom I put in charge of or care for my children (whether I'm present or not) correcting them. But I am not sure how I would feel if a stranger walked up and tried to do so. That is mainly because, I would never feel it would be the stranger's place to do so as I would be right there. I don't leave my kids unattended so therefor I have never seen that happen or would expect it to.

However, I've worked in a video store back in my day and maybe partly because my mom ran a daycare and partly because I was managing the store during my work hours. I had no problem telling children who were not being watched by their parent, kindly, to stop playing with a kiosk or line dividers. Or better yet, telling them not to open candy that hasn't been paid for. However, if I were to see a child doing these types of things in a store while I am also shopping I wouldn't say anything as I don't have a vested interest in what that child is doing at that point. Don't get me wrong, I would never hesitate a child from running out in front of a car, if I could help it but that is only because I know they would be in immediate danger.