Sleep Training Not Working

I agree with you that it does not seem to be working and it is time to try something else. While I am opposed to the CIO method for numerous reasons, I do understand why some people resort to it and as with all techniques, if you've given it time without success it is time to find out why and try another way.

My ped said two things in order for the CIO method to work, they have to at least double their body weight and be 6m old, perhaps wait until he hits both, then try again.

We've been there, but it will work. The only time it won't work is if they are teething and if they are sick.

Happy Holidays,
J.

Sounds to me like the baby may be hungry. He may need a little more at that night feding to hold him thru the night.
If his tummy is not satisfied he won't be either.

Hi K., we started sleep training at 6months. I tied the weissbluth too, but felt it was to harsh too. So with my peditricians help, we came up with our own...I let her cry for 5minutes, and then console her (in her crib-couldn't pick her up yet) for 3minutes. Then let her cry for 7minutes and console for 3minutes. Then 10minutes and 3minutes, 12minutes of crying and 5minutes of console. and last was the 15minutes and 5 minutes. On the 1st day, we did all that then ended up rocking her to sleep. The 2nd day, got to the 12minutes as was sleeping, etc...took us less than a week and now we have absoutely NO problems. I hope this helps, and if you have any questions, please feel free to ask.
Good Luck

It could be that by the time you do cry it out, he is way past the stage of being able to sleep. Or it could be he really has colic and not a sleep issue. Or it could be that something else is wrong - maybe he needs a darker/ligher/warmer/colder/quieter/noisier environment. With out being there it's hard for any of us to evaluate.

The age is NOT an issue, I have had plenty of babies sleeping solidly on their own by 2 1/2 mos old without that much problem at all. Is he getting solid naps? If he isn't that could be an issue as well.

I suggest you try using the Baby Whisperer's EASY method for a schedule, and the Happiest Baby on the Block 5 s's method. Those two combined will make cio not be a needed thing (at that age)
EASY - when the baby wakes up it Eats. After you feed it, then it has Activity - bouncy seat, tummy time, sitting up and playing with toys, swing, exersaucer, etc. When the baby gets fussy check the B's - boredom, butt or burp. If it's none of those then off to Sleep. Don't wait for the baby to do more than get the tiniest bit fussy, then see what is causing the fusses - if it's just that they needed their diaper change do that, but if it's not the activity is boring, the butt is dirty or they have to burp, then put them down. This may happen after as short as 45 minutes, don't freak, it really means they are tired.
Now, to get them to sleep use the 5 s's. Swaddle the baby, hold the baby on their side and sway as they suck on something (paci, your knuckle or their finger/thumb) and make a shush noise. This will calm your baby. When the baby is calm, but not asleep yet, keeping them swaddled lay them in the bed. I like to pat them instead of sway after a minute or two cause you can still pat after they are put down but you can't sway, so pat the baby and continue patting gradually decreasing it as you put them in the bed. Also continue the shushing as you put them down, again gradually getting quieter.
If you do these two you will find a well rested, easily managed baby in no time.

I think if you do not feel this method is working you sould try something else that you are more comfortable with. Your ped is a medical doctor, not a parenting specialist. I am not a fan of the cry it out method to begin with so that makes me biased in this case. Here is some more info about the cry it out method if you are interested: http://www.babycenter.com/0_baby-sleep-training-cry-it-ou...

Maybe try the sleep lady method. Its more of gentle way of sleep training. The book is by Kim West and her site is www.sleeplady.com. I have tried this method with great success. If you are no longer comfortable with it, then try something different. Bottom line, trust your instincts, that is what they are there for. Also if you're not happy, you won't have a happy baby either. Good luck!

If you can, buy or borrow the book Healthy Sleep Habits, Healthy Child by Dr Weissbluth. If you have time, read the whole thing, if not, at least read the section for you son's age range. It has lots of great information, but be warned, he knows alot about sleep issues, but he isn't the greatest writer. Also, take the testimonials with a grain of salt. Every kid is different and most kids don't sleep through the night after one or two days. :)

We used modified versions of his methods with our daughter, 3 years old, and our son, 5 months old. I say modified because every child is a little different and develops at different rates. We started "sleep training" with bedtime only. We would have our bedtime routine (bath, massage, book, prayers, snuggle) and then put our child in the crib to fall asleep. There was alot of crying/fussing in the beginning, but after a few weeks there was hardly any fussing before they'd go to sleep. I then followed the rule that I would go to them at night, but I wouldn't rush right in when they fussed. I found that often, they'd wake up and fuss for 10 or 15 minutes and go back to sleep. If they were really crying, I went right in to them and helped them back to sleep if needed. If they seemed hungry, I nursed them. Weissbluth even says in his book that some children may need night feedings up to 9 months old. My daughter still had one feeding a night until she was 9.5 months old and my son still wakes for one feeding.

If your son is waking often at night, he might be waking when he enters the light sleep phase (every 45 min to an hour), or he could easily be hungry. At his age he could easily need to eat once, and if you are nursing, he could need to eat twice. Don't be afraid of responding to him at night for now. Work on one thing at a time. Get him used to going to sleep on his own at bedtime. Once he has that figured out, you can work on the middle of the night.

Another area to focus on, if you aren't already, is daytime sleep. If babies don't get enough daytime sleep, they become overtired and that affects night sleep. You should also have an early bedtime, no later than 7 pm and often earlier for a child his age.

When you are ready, work on the middle of the night wake ups. I was never comfortable with not checking on them. As I said, with light crying/fussing, I would wait at least 10 minutes to see if they'd go back to sleep. If they were crying, I would always go check on them. If they needed to eat, a diaper change, a snuggle, whatever, they got it. When my daughter was about 7 months old, I would go to her, but after a little bit, I would put her back into her crib to go back to sleep. I wanted her to know that I would go to her if she needed me, but it was nighttime and time to go to sleep. She wasn't too thrilled, but soon she was going right back to sleep.

Good luck! Hope this helped a bit.

K., If you don't feel you are doing the right thing it probably won't work. You have to believe in what you are doing. I don't know Weissbluth's method although a lot of people write about it.

When I knew my son's were sleepy then I knew the most important thing I needed to know. I would put them down and let them cry for five minutes. If they don't fall asleep pick them up and comfort them to calm them down. Don't talk, nurse, give a bottle or anything else. Leave the lights off. After he calms down put him down again. Keep repeating this after five minutes of crying. He will eventually give up and fall asleep. If you just let them "cry it out" I think they get overstimulated and are too young to calm themselves although I am sure Dr. Weissbluth knows far more than I do! I have not written a book!! But this above method worked for me.

Picture your child's cry as saying "Mom I am so tired, please help me sleep".

Watch the clock for the five minutes because it goes slowly and remember to just pick him up, NOTHING ELSE.

Let me know if it works. A.

Hi K.,

You didn't mention how long "a very long time" is. We first let our daughter "cry it out" at around 6 mos., because we just didn't know what else to do (it was very difficult to get her to sleep). She cried for about 40 min. (with checks at 5, 10, 15, min intervals, etc.), which our ped. told us was great and we should try it again. So if your son is crying for that amt. or less, I would say to keep going. I've been told that some babies are simply not receptive to crying it out. Our ped also told us to just focus first on going to sleep before letting our daughter cry during the night. It sounds like you've tried it for long enough that you should notice some improvement. If you'd like to try some other sleep solutions (some of which I found somewhat helpful) you could try The No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley. If that doesn't work for you, maybe you could try the crying-it-out method again in a month. What's most important (particularly at this age), is that you do whatever lets all of you get the most sleep. It's going to be challenging any way you slice it.

All the best!
R.

It does sound like your son is either too young or has other issues inhibiting his sleep. Do not worry about losing anything your son has learned but do worry about losing his trust in you responding to his needs. I used this method for my 1st child (based on other mom's recommendations and my own lack of experience) but not my 2nd and am not a believer in it. I feel like we are still undoing the damage done to my 1st son by the cry it out approach/Weissbluth and he's 5 years old (we changed our approach 2 years ago). If it doesn't feel right and isn't working then try something else. Good luck with your son!

PS. I agree with the other poster's comments regarding your doctor giving "medical" advice vs. "parenting" advice. There is no medical reason for your child to cry it out but there is some scientific evidence to not let them cry it out based on their body's stress/cortisol levels when left alone to cry.

You don't have to let your baby cry it out. All babies eventually sleep through the night on their own... usually closer to a year old. Weissbluth has some great ideas in his book, especially concerning napping and not letting your baby get over-tired, but even he admits that CIO is not the only way to get a baby to sleep through the night. I think the title of your email says it all. I know you're probably desperate to get a good night's sleep and probably feel like if you don't teach your baby how to fall asleep, you'll end up with years of sleep issues, but seriously, you'll be fine. With my 2 girls, I was always against letting them CIO and for me it was a last resort option. I basically stuck it out until they got to be closer to maybe 10 months old and seemed to clearly understand what was going on. I was so torn about letting them cry, but at that point when I finally gave in, it lasted under 15 minutes and then life got much easier, but again, they were much older babies at that point. Just my two cents. Good luck!

The only thing you are "training" your child right now is that he cannot trust his parents to respond to his needs. He is crying becaus he truely needs something from you. That's our biological response. Your instinct is telling you that you are doing something wrong, but you're not listening. Don't worry, if you continue you eventually will sleep through the crying and your son will show the effects of this "training" someday with his behavior and/or connection to you. If you want to train something, get a dog.

Not every kid's personality will work with it.

K.,
I am sorry you and your son are going through this-we just went through it and it is very rough. You have gotten a lot of good advice from other experienced moms but I am going to tell you what worked for us. My son was reliant on us rocking him and bouncing him to sleep, which was great when he was an infant, but now that he is 6 months old he really needed to learn to self soothe. This is a very important skill they need to develop not only for when they are babies but as they grow up in this world. I HIGHLY recommend the Dr. Ferber method, which I don't believe anyone has mentioned yet. Basically you start out slow, letting him cry for 5 minutes, going in to provide comfort (without picking him up), leaving, letting him cry for 10 minutes, going back etc. You are slowing giving him to the opportunity to calm himself while still providing security, comfort and assurance that you are there for him. I don't think 5 months is too young if sleep has become a problem, for you and him. I also recommend a consistent bedtime routine both at naps and night time. Dr. Ferber's book explains this all in great detail. I firmly believe that when both you and your son are ready for this, it can definitely work. My son is now going to bed awake, falls asleep within 5 minutes and stays asleep through the night. (and he is happy when he wakes up in the morning and knows I have not left him). Every baby is different and you have to pick the method that works for you both. Good luck!

Hi K.,

I'm so sorry you're going through this. We had a similar problem, our son didn't sleep through the night until he was 10 months old. My husband and I were exhausted and it started to effect everything else in our lives. I did a few things. I got a few different books so I could compare techniques and come up with a solution that worked best for our baby and us.. The Weisbluth book was one, we also read "Sleeping Through the Night" by Jodi Mindell and "The Sleepeasy Solution" by Waldburger and Spivack. I also called The Fussy Baby Network. It's a free hotline offered by the Erikson Instutute. I can't say enough about how much they helped us with the sleeping issue as well as some other issues (like feeding and riding in the car). Here's the Web site: http://www.erikson.edu/fbn.aspx

I spoke with a woman named Marsha Baker. She was a life-saver really, so I highly recommend that you give them a call.

Some of the other moms mentioned reflux. Our son also had an issue with reflux and a milk protein allergy. This added to the fussiness, so if it's important to get this checked out with your doctor.

Hope this helps. Know that others have gone through it and it doesn't go on forever. A solution is right around the corner, just hang in there. Good luck. Big Hug! K.

Your son is too young. Right now he is crying for something he needs, food, diaper, or maybe just plain old attention. I would give it a few more months and then maybe try again. Although I do not believe in sleep training infants, so I would never do this until the child could understand why I was doing it (over a year old).

I havent read all your responses, but with my little one it took finding a "wooby". She didnt suck her thumb, want a passifier or have a favorite blankie. When we began to sleep train we introduced a soft stuffed doggie and a fuzzy blanket. I believe these items help her self soothe, and complete the bedtime routine. She now cuddles them both to sleep. It is also important to know the signs of when she is tired enough, before she gets over tired. A schedule helps with this. Good luck, you'll figure it out.

Still sleeping him on his back? I have three and all of them have to sleep on their tummy. I make sure the room is cool...I will even run the cieling fan. I make sure they don't have anything in the crib that they could snuggle up into and suffocate. I make sure they only have a firm mattress and just a sheet to sleep on.

When he's down pat his little bottom until he calms down. Try singing a little, but don't pick him up. When he calms down, then walk out. If he starts to cry again, give him about 15 minutes and then go back and pat his little bottom and shhhh him until he calms down again.

That's how I got all of mine to sleep. I stopped rocking them to sleep too. I started putting them down when they were just barely asleep and then finally wide awake.

He's still very young...so to expect him to sleep more than six hours at a time is unrealistic. If he's down for four to six hours that is very good for that age.

Do you think maybe he has reflux? Maybe it's not that he can't "get" the sleep thing, but that he's just uncomfortable? I have no idea, but I'm just throwing something else out there. Try elevating one side of his crib by putting some books or something under the mattress. They also sell a crib wedge, but you could certainly just use the books and save the money just in case it doesn't help. It's worth a shot, right?

2 1/2 weeks does sound like a long time for him not to really get it. I wound up having to let my first two cry as they just could not settle themselves even if I was holding them. I know it didn't take that long though. It IS a gradual process, but if you're not seeing any progress w/him then I would definitely try something else.

Good luck!

If you feel horrible then it's not right. What exactly do you think your son has "learned" from this? I'm guessing a whole lot of nothing to be honest with you. He's only learned how to cry harder and louder I'm assuming. Respond to him as you feel is necessary and you will both be happier. Throw out the book!!!!

I think it is folly to suppose that one method, whatever it may be, will work on all babies. There are too many variables and they are, after all, individuals just like you and me. This method is definitely not working for you and your child so I would change it up asap. Also I think your expectations might be unrealistic, given the age of your child. He is possibly crying partly from hunger, etc. in the night. Personally I'm not a fan of the crying it out, especially at such a young age. Your baby needs comforting.

My sister in law used this method for her children, and she gave the book to me when I had my first. I used the Weisssbluth method for all three of my children and it worked great. However, it will not work if you start too early. The book recommends that 4 months is the very earliest, so at 5 months, maybe your little one is just not ready.

Another thing----if you do not follow the book properly, you can actually creat more crying and sleep problems. If the child is only allowed to fuss sometimes, or if you go in to soothe them once in a while, they know that the fussing worked and they will actually cry more and it can completely undo the training.

The other things that can interfere or interrupt sleep training are vacations, illnesses, and a child who is overy exhausted. If he does not nap well during the day he will be overly tired at night and will have a difficult time falling asleep and staying asleep. I found that keeping nap time sacred the key.

I have three kids, 8, 4, and 1.5 years. All of them followed this sleep training method. All of them could be put down wide awake as babies in their crib. We rocked and cuddled for a bit, they nursed or drank a bottle, I told them night night, kisses, put them in their cribs, gave them their blankies and walked out. After training, they would fall happily asleep. My littlest one talks to himself (and his blankie) for a bit and then goes to sleep. The only time they would cry would be when they had a poopy diaper or were overly tired.

Most of the time they also wake up happy and chatting to themselves. The older ones are still good sleepers. They 4 year old may have a "nightmare" once in a while since she is at the age, but otherwise they all go to bed between 7:30 and 8:30 and sleep 10-12 hours depending on the age. The baby is very easy for sitters and Grandma to put to sleep since he feel comfortable in his crib and does not require alot of help to go to sleep.

That is just my experience, good luck!

A mama in Libertyville

Frankly, you're probably not doing it right because Weissbluth's method takes only one night! Call Dr. Weissbluth himself ###-###-####) and he can advise you in a sleep consultation. He works MIRACLES, but even the other doctors in his own practice aren't good at explaining/knowing what he advises. Go to the source -- he is BRILLIANT and it WORKS!!!!!

I don't believe in crying it out, it doesn't work because it's not supposed to, it goes against nature and forces something on a tiny being for OUR benefit. We all need sleep though maybe get a new perspective and try something else like The Baby Sleep Book by Dr. Sears it's MUCH more gentle. Your baby is trying to tell you something, it's great that you're following your instincts.
Good luck.

Hi K., if that method is not working, the best thing you can do is just keep the baby in your arms and sooth him the best way you know how...babies don't stay babies long...maybe, he needs the warmth of your body...I've tried both ways...letting them cry it out and letting them sleep in bed with me...they have grown now and believe me, I would love to have them babies again, I would hold them in my arms and comfort them anytime they ever cried...babies grow up way too fast...don't always go by the book...go with your heart...Love and blessings to you. Jo