Seeking Advice - Handling Smart Mouth

Hello,
I am a single mom of two boys and my 7 year old is ADHD, then I have a 20 month old. It does get hard to deal with at times. My oldest was on Adderall Xr for a year and a half and just recently grew out of the medication. Now we just got switched and this medication is not working well. He is now on Foclin. I have the same problem as you that when he is off his medication that he acts disrespectful and arrogant. My son is on meds everyday. We had it rough in kindergarden but its better this year. There is a line where I'm not sure if he really knows what he is doing or if he doesn't. But in my house disrecpect is not tolerated. He at one point has had all his game systems taken away for a week to 2 weeks. I have to come up with different ways of dealing with him depending on the situation. I don't let too much slide though because eventually he will have to learn to deal with his ADHD and work with it instead of agasinst it.
I do stress out at times because I feel as if I can't handle things...so I am open to suggestions as well. I figured If I had other moms to talk to with the same situation, I might feel better that i'm doing things okay.

Have you talked with his doctor about this problem? Obviously the medication is helping him but maybe there is something else that would last longer or something so that he is in controll all the time and not just the 8 hours or so that this medicine lasts. I agree that you should not allow the disrespect. He may not be as in control of himself when he is off the meds but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have the ability to learn right from wrong and he still does have a choice. You just have to help him to understand that making good choices will be better for him. Maybe you can come up with somekind of a reward system. Put some marbles in a jar and every time he is disrespectful to you, a marble gets taken away. Then at the end of the day or week, give him a reward based on the number of marbles he has left in the jar. Maybe 5 marbles can equal a new Hot Wheel or something small like that. You can also use the system to reward the good behavior. If you see him doing something especially nice, he earns a marble back that he has lost. You could also use pennies or whatever you have. Above all, be patient. I know that is SO hard but he will feed off of your stress and frustration so even if you are about to tear your hair out, don't let him know it. I hope this helps.

i have the same issues with my boy. he's 8 y/o. disresect is not tolerated at my house, either.
the fist thing i would say is maybe he needs a med switch. talk to the dr.
the thing i have implemented in my house is a token system.(poker chips) i give him ten tokens to start with. then i made a list of chores and expectations. brushing teeth, taking med, trash,ect. a small list. then i have a list of privileges 1-10. 1 being room restriction and ten being u pick a restaraunt to eat at. then it is his choices that affect his ability to do ANYTHING! the hard part is sticking to the system. i had to make my boy miss out on monster jam this year and it about killed me! however, his behavior has changed a lot, now that he knows i mean business. i took everything away from him to start... i mean everything. down to the bed and dresser. then if he has 8 tokens at the end of the week, he can get an item back. if you would like a better explanation of this you can email me. i think it works well b/c i give him the tokens. if he loses them, he's got noone to point the ol' finger at. good luck.

I also have the same/ similar issues. My son is 11, with ADHD and seems to have some oppositional-defiance in him. Everything is a 'discussion' on his part - open for negotiation. He's on adderall xr during the day- but when/ as it wears off theres the 'witching hour' that seems to come with most kids as their meds wear off. thats when my son definatly has 'play time' to go burn off steam and just 'be' without any conflict.
but there's still every evening and every morning... I tell him its bath time and bed time- same ritual he's had since he was an infant- but its still a 'transition' time. time to stop one thing and go to a whole different thing- going to sleep- which means not 'doing' something. ugg.
Getting upset NEVER works. I have to go through the whole 'schpeal" most every night. " Henry time for a bath and bed in 5 minutes." then "Henry, time for a shower"- then I hear- do I have to? or just 5 more minutes? or he takes 10 minutes to even make it into the bathroom... he has to go find his p.j. and underwear, and get a drink, and stop and pet the cat... I usually ask him what time he has to gt up for school, and how he feels in the morning when he doesn't get to bed on time.. the more I make HIM think about it all and try to help him remember why He needs to be responsible for himself- the less conflict.
I know though- this all really wears me out. so much WORK every night and every morning (getting him to school on time- he's getting better on that one since he gets in school suspension if he's late.. he had been late alot, and still is occasionally- but he works harder at getting there- and when he gets distracted its easier for me to remind him to get back on track..
Kids with ADHD are definatly HIGH maintenance. But I hope the more 'work' I put into raising him now, the better he will be as an adult... Teaching him all the 'coping' skills possible as he grows. I'm ADD and didn't know growing up- it was like a weight off my shoulders finding out what 'my problems stemed from' my whole life.. now its just learning ways to work 'around' my 'differences'.. some of them an everyday struggle. Like staying organized enough myself to help my son stay on task.
I'm a single, working mom- with ADD, with one daughter-13, who is ADD, and a son - 11- who is ADHD... It can get overwhelming sometimes. I keep reading to remind myself of the 'better' ways to do things, and go to 'therapy' to stay on track.
Also- when my son starts 'arguing'- i just keep repeating myself and ask him if he honestly think he will change my mind if he keeps asking, or if it will get him into more trouble, and tell him to take a minute to think about it. If he's angry or upset, I hug him- wheither he wants one or not (he's a touch person, and responds best if he's being touched while I'm talking to him)and give him an explaination on why he needs to do something.
Or if nothing else- he's just being a regular bratty kid- he gets his mouth washed with soap (I use organic soaps).. My sister used a drop of tabasco with her 3 sons.. I've also heard of using vinigar - leaving it in their mouths one minute for every year of age.. to make them think twice before they 'back-talk' the next time.
good luck, and let me know if you hear any really good ideas!! haha, I can use some to- so I'm not so exhausted every night!!!
J.

You didn't say how old your son is...

Could you point out to him that he's acting differently because the medication's worn off and ask him to put himself in check?

Not blaming him, just plainly stating that he's "getting tired"... (we know when we're PMS-ing) or you could come up with a "secret code word" so you could even use it around others without them knowing what you were talking about? And, if you made it something that was special between you two it could strengthen your bond (reassure him you're on the same team) and if it's silly it could be enough of a momentary emotional break to allow him to get back on-track?

It would be a useful skill for him in the future, to be able to see his behavior change as medication isn't helping him.

Hope that helps!
T.

One of my sons has ADD and has had difficulty in school with following directions and being respectful at home to his Dad and me and to his other brothers. We have tried numerous behavior modification techniques and numerous medications. Recently (within the last six months), we tried Vyvanse. It has worked wonders! The medication lasts longer and so he has control both at home and at school. He takes it around 6:45 a.m. (sometimes, he is a bit difficult to get up, but once he has his meds, it kicks in very fast). He usually is in bed around 8:30 p.m. If he stays up later, then the medicine starts to wear off and he becomes more difficult. Ask your doctor about it. Good luck! Kati

There is no easy answer

I have a son with similar personality (only mine's probably worse - he's 14-1/2)and I've had all the same thoughts you are having. I don't have a complete solution but I do know the James Lehman's "Total Transformation" program does really help, especially if you have two parents who are both participating in stopping the negative behaviors. I'm sure you could google Total Transformation or James Lehman and it will come up for you to look at. It a 6 set Cd with one DVD, along with a booklet for writing info down and key cards, etc. This guy is the real deal - he's a counselor now but started in a much worse place than our kids are. I would encourage you to check it out.

I am legal guardian for my 6 year old neice. She is ADHD, SED, OCD and ODD. She takes Adderall extended release for the ADHD. We had the same problems, the times when the meds had worn off. We talked to her meds doc and we now do two things. 1) AFTER an EEG to make sure her heart is strong, the doc gave her an RX for Tenex, it is to calm her down, she takes it at 12:00, 3:30 and 7:30pm (before bed). 2) I wake her up in the morning first thing and give her the Adderal before she is even much awake. I then let her lay back down and start the massage therapy that her Meds doc showed me, you need to do this right so have the doctor show you. The massage releases endorphins, the feel good natural chemicals her body makes, and helps her to wake up cheerful and happy. At the end of the massage, then it is time to get up and dressed, I tickle her a little, it gets her laughing....
Before we did these things you could hear her screaming outside the house, from the street.
In the evening it is kind of a repeat, only instead of the massage, we read to her, it, along with the 7:30pm dose, calms her mind so she can go to bed.... the Tenex also helps her sleep through the night.
As far as the smart mouth, there are some things that were said that she got soap in her mouth... we are religous and some words are not spoken in our house...she doesn't like the soap so she doesn't say those words any more.

I have no magic solution, but I do strongly recommend the book "Backtalk" by Audrey Ricker and Carolyn Crowder. It is a very simple read with great simple guidelines to stopping the behaviors you mentioned. A book very worth your time and money.

Like someone else posted..not sure how old your son is. I am sure you know this but kids are not always going to be nice cooperative little beings. They are going to smart off, and they are going to be nasty and they are going to get upset. Heck we as adults are not always cooerative little beings. You just have to try to teach your children, no matter what age, to repect others and to respect themselves. When he starts smarting off to you, calmly tell him you will not listen to him speak to you that way and he can go to his room (or somewhere else) and sit and think about the right way to talk. I do not know his medical history, am not a doctor, and do not have any personal experience with children with ADHD. I do however have a friend with a child that is medicated for just about every normal child behavior. She doesn't like his behavior so the dr sends out a prescription. I believe a lot of times children are medicated for no real good reason. Heck I would like to give my daughter something when she smarts off to me....but thats just life. Again, not claiming this is the case with you.
Goodluck

Ok first of all I will tell you that I have a child with ADD as well. Maybe you should discuss with your Dr. if you can change the times he takes his meds? So that you will have those worse times of the day covered. I don't think that you should ignore his behaviors, then he will think it is ok to act like that. Instead of letting him act that way, send him to his room, or make him sit at the kitchen table with nothing to do until he decides to calm down.

What are the ages of your boys?

Hi A., I can relate to your situation. I don't know how old your son is but mine is 12. He also had ADHD, Motor tic disorder (form of tourettes)(sp), and some small OCD. I understand what you mean by unmedicated. He is much more difficult to deal with when he is off his meds. We're currently goign through the smart mouth thing now. Just this morning we had an issue. We started doing like a behavor chart. I know he seems a bit old for this, but that has been the best thing for us. It basically is a graft that shows his things that he has to do to earn points. If he earns his points for the week then he get a reward (friends spening the night, extra game time, CD) thing like that. I was not sure at first about this but we started to see a counslor for some issue's and she suggested it. It's a good incentive for him to get back on track and be good. So I figured at this point it's worth a try. It does help. He has started to earn most of his rewards. But if he get 3 marks against him, then he will lose his privlidges. Anyway i hope this helps. I'm still testing it out myself, but your not alone. Good luck and keep praying! Sometimes that's the only way i can get through it.

I know a lot about what you are going through as three of my four children have Fragile X Syndrome, but only one (16) with ADHD and behavior problems. During the dirty looks in public, I had taken to teaching those around me about the disorder and that helped them be understanding, but you don't always have time or energy to deal with teaching 'normal' people and dealing with your son.
Your analogy of speaking to a drunk is right on. We tell our son in a monotone voice to "be nice," or "that is unacceptable," trying by our tone not to make him defensive and therefore worse. There are times ignoring the behavior is safest. But don't get emontional. I know this sounds 'goofy,' but would music help your son? Either putting on fun and upmoving or classical and calming, may help sooth the feelings going on inside him. Later, role playing or talking calmly about how you feel when he behaves that way might be helpful. But don't blame or belittle when he misbehaves because, if you look into his eyes, you will see that he really doesn't like behaving as he is.
Joking around with him during his 'bad mood time' may also be a reliever. For instance, my husband and son will call each other names like 'flipperflapper,'nickle knocker,' or other made-up funny names.
Our son also had a LOT of trouble getting himself ready for school in the morning, so we made a routine that had to be followed every morning before tv or riding his bike. I called it, "teeth, face and hair." It is exactly as it sounds. Once the unchanging routine was fully established, it made a world of difference.
Another difficult thing is to plan for his 'bad moods.' It's hard because your whole family lives around 'his' schedule, but, as a mom, you schedule around both boys' schedules to plan your own. This is helping the 'other son' learn how to deal with brother and others. It doesn't always seem fair, but it's a neccesity.
Blessings as you learn how to jusggle it all! I hope something in this can help or give you hope! The hardest thing on earth is to remember you are not alone - and that's especially hard to remember when you are out in public.
A. L.

Hi A., I don't know if this advice will help but I just wanted to say hang in there. I am a step-mom to 3 children and was a single parent for my two kids for 13 years. We have a total of 6 kids! My stepson who is 13 is probably borderline ADD, acts the same way. We don't medicate him, although sometimes we wonder why not?? I myself am medicated so I can deal with this (just a mild anti-anxiety med.)and my best advice is to keep doing what you are doing and keep firm in the discipline area. The thing that works the best for me is to keep my step son busy, physical work or play, because otherwise he will go from room to room just to find siblings to pick on, me included. I wish I had better advice but I'm still trying to figure it out myself, my stepdaughter who is 9,the sister, is following the same path. They are great kids when they are focused and smart too, just extremely trying sometimes. Good Luck, my thoughts and prayers are with you.
M. B.
PS. I also noticed that my step son needs alot of sleep and has alot of trouble winding down at night and getting started in the morning-lots of quiet time helps.

A., I feel you all the way girl! Wow, I was feeling so alone on this issue. I know what I've been doing with my son who's got ADHD helps some, but as you said unmedicated nothing really works real well..I kind of tap him on his mouth when he talks back or I hear him talking rude. Then with that I tell him that's not o.k. and I explain why. When I tape him on his mouth it's just enough to get his attention. My son it seems to work to a point, he's very sensitive so he always cries then will storm off. But, it has helped to lower the amount of rudeness I've had to endure. I hope you find some great feedback, if you do please let me know, I'm more than open to feedback myself.
Another thing that I've found has helped ease his symtpoms are that I work with a company that's 100% natural. The products I've been using seems to really help, I've gotten all chemicals out of my home with this company. If you'd like to learn more about this wonderful company go to my site at: www.themomteam.com/mom2. I'll be looking forward to speaking with you more on this issue. As I mentioned I'm so glade to hear that others are feeling the same.

You could try the pingpong balls in the jar thing that Super Nanny Jo Frost does. When he gets/keeps however many in the jar for a day he gets to choose a reward. Everytime he smartmouths, calls names, hits, etc. he looses a ball and has to take a time out. Maybe everytime he has a good morning or evening he could add a ball. It sounds like your son is old enough to understand this and may just need the visual reminder of the jar to help him keep his cool.

I'm not for sure of the age, but I'm assuming he's old enough without the Adhd to understand how you treat people. The thing with Adhd, at some point you have to teach the kids to recognize their unacceptable behavior and teach them coping techniques. They can't go around using Adhd & meds as an excuse for everything all of their life. Yes they have a problem, but meds arent going to totally cure the problem. No you should not let him treat you like that, but yes you should have patience and help him recognize this behavior. The other problem with what you are dealing with is when children come off of their meds they are even worse than the child they were before you found the adhd & medicated them because their system has gotten used to the medication. I'm sure you've heard of the pendulum effect. Alot of this behavior is coming from a "letdown" of the medication and his system trying to get "in check". Whatever you do, please help him to try to understand this behavior is not tolerated and maybe try some deep breathing techniques to relax him or a few exercises to release the build up he is having that is probably coming out through his mouth. Good luck and remember problems or not kids still have to understand right & wrong. (Even drunks get held accountable for their actions)

I don't know your son's medical history, but many children are on medications for ADD and such. Unless you want him to be on medication for the rest of his life, you still need to teach him to be responsible for his actions/behavior. The meds may help this situation, but they are not a cure. I'm an unmedicated ADD adult and never was medicated as a child either. My parents went through hell trying to keep me under control, but decided meds were not the answer. It was a constant struggle, but I had to learn that I must be accountable for my behavior. Be very careful with the meds, the long term side effects are very very bad. My step son was on the meds for ADD for 5 years (his mother's doing) and he is 19 yrs. old and no longer on meds, but many times his brain function seems to appear similar to a vegetable...no joke. Those meds will "gloss" over the brain synapses and especially when the children are young and developing. Endure the behaviors, but always correct, work toward the goal of getting him off the meds as soon as possible. At the time that he will actually accept responsiblility for his actions (which requires a certain level of maturity, my step-son was 14) you can then get off the meds and hopefully let the physical body start to function and repair itself from the damage of the medicine. NEVER, use the diagnosis or the meds as a crutch and just ignore the behaviors saying "the meds aren't working right now", your child will never learn to be responsible for his behavior and NEVER let the child hear you say that to anyone, they will quickly use that as their "excuse" for bad behavior. A child born with only one leg has to learn to live with that...no meds to help. Many time these children learn to overcome and actually inspire others. Your son's case is not so different, he will need to learn to adapt to his "disability" if you want to call it that and just learn to work around it.

I received some professional counseling because a co worker who was bi polar. As I described the behaviors that were affecting me, I learned that only a few of them were related to his illness. Most of them were because basically he was a jerk. I became able to deal with his jerk behavior once I learned it was not related to his bi polar issues.

Your son is your son regardless of whether he is medicated or not. If you want to raise a respectful son, you need to make him be respectful medicated and unmedicated. It may take a bigger effort on his part, and yours, but what kind of adult do you want him to be - respectful sometimes?

My oldest son is 14 and is medication free now, YEAH! It was actually brought to my attention when he was in kidergarten that he could have ADHD. I did everything I could to keep from medicating him but in 4th grade there was nothing left to do. The medication did the same thing to my son as yours. Medicated he was a new child, mornings and evenings he was a nightmare. We had a wonderfully amazing Doctor until he moved that explained to my son the medication was only there to help him. That even when he was on or off it the decisions he made were his alone. Medication is a helping hand not our healer, only God can heal completely. We have decisions to make in everything we do from picking out our clothes, our food, what we choose to say, and what we choose to do. This was all like a lightbulb going off for my son. Usuing technics like Meg F mentioned in another post, rewarding (and yes we too took EVERYTHING away), and having his choices play the role of what would happen taught him self disipline and respect. Good luck to you and hang in there. I know at times it can be extremely frusterating. Just remember to breathe. It is a chemical imbalance and it's hard to deal with. We do not want to losse our temper because this is a disease, but there is a line to draw. Do not allow the disease to become a crutch so to speak for either of you.

well, I was having the same issue with my son except he does not have ADD, he was just being rude and disrespectful. So we started making him do 5 pushups everytime he was disrespectful or did something he was not supposed to do. He had to do the pushups correctly, and I just told him that he could not go and play until he cranked out the 5 pushups. First day he did about 25 pushups total, second day he did about 10, third day he did only 5, and fourth and fifth day he was like a new kid. No longer is rude, no longer hitting or scratching, no longer calling names, or having temper tantrums. Try it for a couple of weeks and see if it changes his behavior. It really helped us out. We had been using time out, taking toys from him, spanking him and nothing was working until someone suggested the pushups. A little exercise does not hurt him and he learns who is the boss. Hope this helps! Good luck, would love an update if you try it and it works. :)