Seeking Advice for 2.5 YO Dennis the Menace

Wow, I think between our children we could take over the world! My 2nd son was the same way at that age. There is hope, he is going to be 6 in November and he has calmed down considerably as he got older. I won't say that he has amended his Tasmanian Devil ways totally, we have our moments (he kicked the prosthetic leg of a man we know like he was kicking the tires on a car.) It does get better. I used time out and no he never stayed in the chair. I had to put him back and my record was 62 times. You just have to outlast her. Activities are important - outside play is wonderful. Take her to the pool in your neighborhood and let her swim herself silly, take her home and put her down for a nap. Guaranteed 2 hours of peace. I found naps to be my sanity saver but I had to wear him out first. Good luck sister! I feel your pain. Just know that you are not the lone ranger, that kid you hear screaming in Wal-Mart is probably mine! CB

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Hi K.,
I too have a 4th child who is what you describe. She too could manage to tear up, fall, break something etc. while you were looking at her right near you. We were stunned that she could wreak so much havoc. She was not hyper, was sweet and funny but fearless, and curious. If there was anything that could remotely be called dangerous, she was all over it. We installed door latches at the top of the doors so she couldnt get outside. If I hadnt seen it with my own eyes, I wouldnt have believed it. She dragged a rocking chair over to the back door, climbed up the back slats of the rocker with her little toes like a monkey. She held on until the rocker stopped rocking and stood on top, pulled the pin out, jumped down and was out the door in a blink. I purposely didnt stop her because I wanted to see if she had the ability and daring. She did. Once I left her in the backyard digging in the dirt long enough to run for a potty break. In 2 minutes I returned to find she had put on her sisters roller skates and was skating down the slide with the cat wrapped around her neck like a fur collar! She had 5 vastly different potentially fatal accidents at 2 yrs old. She was never left unattended. She is very bright and fearless to this day. If I told you the number of unbelievable things shes done, you wouldnt believe it, like putting her finger in an electric pencil sharpener which ground off the end of her finger in 2 seconds. She is now 23yrs old. In all seriousness, make sure her pediatrician knows how much trouble she gets into. At times DD was so banged up, scraped and bruised it would be understandable that someone might suspect she was abused. Make sure she learns early on to swim and perhaps take gymnastics so she can learn how to control her body if she gets into water or swings in a tree, it will give her the skill to survive. Mine almost drowned after scaling a privacy fence and climbed to the top of a 2 story tree to pick me a bloom. If she had had a tail, she no doubt would have been swinging by it. Read Curious George stories so she can see that what George thinks is a good idea is not always what he imagined. God bless you and your child.

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I am a teacher and I see kids entering school that have not had these issues dealt with and it is not good to wait that long. I would ask my peditrician for a referral to a large university type screening program. Maybe some of the other moms would know of a good one. Not sure if it would be Texas Childrens or UTMB in Galveston. But I would have comprehensive tests run. It sounds like more of what has already been identified with the sensory problem. Sounds like a complete lack of impulse control. You and your child need professional help. Do not delay. Do not wait for or settle for testing done through the school system because it is not adequate and will just give you a label. Not only do you need a real diagnosis but then you can get referrals for help with the behaviors.

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First, you need to lock all the stuff up that she can use to destroy stuff. I usually do not recommend that, because I think kids learn write from wrong by having opportunities to make choices based on the stimulus in front of us, but if your daughter truly has no self-restraint, you're just increasing your head-ache by having this stuff available to her. Use child-safetey stuff. Get door handle covers, and cabinet locks.
Second, keep in mind that a 2 year old (as well as most children until they're about five), are sort of living in a haze. They aren't "little adults", they're children who are making choices completely based off the stimulus in the environments around them. Yes, some of these children take the stimulus and then amplify their response by 5000, but it's still just a response. She truly does not understand right from wrong. She does not understand boundaries.
The only way she will learn these things is if you are ON her at all times, and are consistent with the boundaries and discipline.
I used to believe that spanking was an appropriate response, until this past year. My husband and I have been having some difficulties so we've both, separately and together, been in counseling pretty much all year. Every counselor we have seen has discussed the fact that spanking does not teach a child anything. It only teaches them that sometimes they receive physical harm for no reason at all! Children, while they might remember the action, truly do not connect the action with the concepts of "right" or "wrong" for many years. You can train them, yes. You can remove them from the situation, yes. You can be consistent with your response to help them understand the direction you want them to go, but they do not get the actual reasons why for a couple more years.

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I know how you are feeling my little girl is 2.5 and is in everything and anything she never stops. She started walking at 9 months old and at that time she was climbing on things you would not think a 9 month could climb on. By the time she was 1 she climb a 7 foot ladder. She has no fears and does not feel much pain. I have a 9 year old step son that has S P D. I m thinking it is the same thing she has. We have put locks on every door in the house but she still finds way to get in to things. Im also a stay at home mom and it is very hard to watch her 24 hours a day. When she get to play outside or go swim it helps burn lots of energy the more she can run around the better we all are.

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K.,
When my son was young, this is how he behaved. You could count on him to spill his milk EVERY night at dinner without exception! Amazing. He is now 21 years old and we went through all the testing. pills, counseling etc... with him. Turns out he has always had a general anxiety disorder. His getting into trouble was because he was nervous and wanted to keep busy to "run away" from the anxious feeling. This got worse as he got older until it was properly diagnosed. Perhaps you could ask your doctor about it. It sets itself up to look like ADHD or ADD. It's usually in bright children who are artistic in nature. They nervously run around making a mess and you always have to look up when you're looking for them because they're usually climbing! It is also sometimes inharited. Do you or your husband have a family history of anxiety?
God bless you and your little one. You WILL get through this.
D.

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My son made huge messes at that age too. After dumping baby powder and lotion all over his floor, I ended up taking everything out of his room that he could get into during nap/rest times.

If he dumped something over, I made him clean it up. If he refused to clean it up, he would have to sit in time out until he was ready to clean up the mess. He is now 3.5 and the messes are not as severe or as deliberate as they were a year ago.

I still put up crayons, markers or anything he can mark up the walls out of reach. He an only use them when I am in the room with him.

You can buy locks for the cabinets, fridge. As for the toilet, you can put special nobs on the outside of the door, to keep her out. After my son flushed a toy that I was sure would clog the pipes, we ended up putting up the nobs on the door until he was potty trained. After he potty trained, his fascination with the toilet became a thing of the past.

I also find the more activities my son is engaged in, the better. We spend a great deal of our time outside where he can play and make messes to his heart's content. I also let him play with play-doh and paint with water colors.
At 2.5, I had one cabinet that I let him play in. I filled it with tupper wear, measuring spoons and bowls. He loved to take out his cooking toys and pretend to cook on the floor.

Good luck with your daughter. ;)

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have you tried reaching out to a group or organization that addresses the issues that your daughter has?

as you mentioned this is not typical toddler behavior so you need to find out all you can on the subject so that you can address her issues as an individual vs the same way as the other children.

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Seems she needs some hard-and-fast boundaries! Let her know what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior. If she chooses to disobey, there should be a swift and consistent consequence. However, I think that whatever method you use, you definitely should consult the appropriate expert about how to modify that advice for the condition your daughter has. For example, spanking can be a very appropriate response when a child chooses to disobey. I disagree with a previous post that a child does not know right from wrong at that age. She may not understand all of the deeper meanings and contexts, but my 3-year-old DEFINITELY understands that she gets spanked when she makes a wrong choice (i.e., disobeying an adult); to her, she's not getting physical harm for no reason! You have to make sure that your child connects that the choice they make causes the discipline, the consequence. And make sure they get a lot of love afterward. But you should consult an expert because spanking may not be appropriate for your little one with her sensory issue. There are many other consequences that would work, though. God be with you!

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Have you tried singing to her what you want? Sometimes kids respond to songs over you telling them what to do.

How did you learn you ABCs?

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your four kids ages are spread apart. she should not have access to the goldfish/ kitchen, toliet / bathroom. we keep all of our books in one room where our son seldom has access to and while we are there. be consistant and put her in time out for bad actions. she knows right from wrong and if she dose not its up to you to teach her. as far as markers on the wall ....again our son does not have access to these things. Majic eracer is a wonderful thing for this ( we bought a rent house and there were very old crayon, ink, pencil markings on the wall and they came off). I suggest time out.

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Log onto http://www.loveandlogic.com/ecom/c-25-favorite-books-of-p... and order one of the books. This is the best I have every found for guiding the behavior of toddlers. Good Luck.

It seems to me that it probably has to do with het sensory disorder. I am no professional but I do work with kids that have these issues. Sounds like she needs sensory integration therapy. Some you can do yourself . Giving her a big squeeze hug, downward brushing of her arms with your hands. Staying calm even when she is out of crontol. Seek professional assistance too.Allow get to go without shoes as often as possible. I hope this helps some. Sorry I don't have any professional names to give u at this point.

C.

Gesh, do i feel your pain. My son will be 2 in September and i am going through the same thing. To be honest he has been this way since he was 9 months. He's on a constant move and out to destroy. Spankings do not help as mine is doing the same as your daughter. It seems as though he is out to destroy anything he can get his hands on, and terrorizes my older son as well. This kid is a demon and is seems to love to do mean things to any of us. If we get him upset he is quick to get revenge and immediately do something to get back at us. He is the apple of his fathers eye so he is not lacking for attention either. At relatives homes he is very good , but once we get him alone with us is when all the bad comes out. If we are driving he is throwing things at us ,hitting us in the head with cups,bottles,or toys. My boy is too smart for his own good, truly doesnt think like your typical 22 month old. I sure would like to know what advice you get.

Wow! If you put my son (age 2) and your daughter in a room, it sounds like the very wallpaper would be peeled from the wall. I'm amazed at the speed that he can get into things, and I'm finding a path of destruction that I thought I'd never see again after my oldest son past toddlerhood.

I try to keep someone with him at all times, switching off between children...they know it must be done...they like their stuff intact too. Along with that I know we need to switch guardians frequently because if one's attention waivers, something gets destroyed, or a mess is made. Yes, sometimes this happens anyway, but at least no one has to clean up every mess. We switch off.

You might check out www.nogreaterjoy.org for some child training tips...i've been looking there a lot lately...its "food for thought"

Later: I was kind of chuckling at the thought of putting up everything that a 2 year old could destroy. I was just in the kitchen with my two year old, and in the time I put ice and water in my cup, he tried to stand on plastic plates he'd grabbed off the counter and climb on top of the open dishwasher door that some of the older kids were unloading. We just removed him from the area to play with my 11 year old, who is focusing her energy on him while I type this and do a little housework. Just remember a 2 year old explores and tries different things naturally, so this is probably compounded by the disorder you described.

Along with constant (as much as possible) supervision, having a place that they can destroy stuff and play with materials without constantly being told no, might be something to consider. My guy loves dumping water, so we've set up some water exploration toys, buckets and a water source outside (and yes he's still walked all the way through the house dumping water as he goes) what we can't supervise or haven't paid close enough attention to, we clean up.

What does your child's doctor say about her behavior? Some kids are much more active than others. I have a 3 1/2 year old that has been recently diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. I know some on here do not believe that can be a true diagnosis this young, but believe me I knew at 18 months old this child had more energy and got into 48 things at once and this is not "normal" behavior, even for the terrible two's. When you have to chase around a baby that is acting like a monkey on crack, there is a problem. I had him evaluated by a child psychologist and she diagnosed him. He was also evaluated by another child psychologist and his pediatrician. He is now on Daytrana patch 15mg and it has made a huge difference in his behavior and his ability to concentrate, impulse control. The daycare was really frustrated and there were many remarks made about his behavior and how disruptive he was to the entire classroom. When he started be more aggressive, it was time to do something. Please have your child evaluated, it could make a world of difference in your family and that childs entire life.

HI K.
Bless you---- and bless your little one.....have you had her checked for autisum?? sounds like this could be part of the problem- and there are special schools where you can get special instructions to be able to teach her- and that she can attend during the day for some professional help.
good luck and blessings