My middle child will turn 4 next month and she has gotten really rude to me. At first it was cute and funny almost and now it's not at all. What's a good tactic for dealing with this? Timeout isn't working she doesn't seem to care and taking things away doesn't work either. I don't think spanking would work because she's such a stubborn person. Any advice?
To clarify... She is openly defiant when I tell her to do something. For example: time for bed; she will say "no," and we will have a stand off literally. She isn't always defiant but she is becoming more so. Last night was the worst its ever been. She wanted to watch a show and it was bed time. So we did this stand off and I ended up literally holding her by the arm marching her to bed. She started yelling, " you're a bad mommy, I'm never going to listen to you again, you're a bad mommy. I will not fall asleep." Once I put her in bed and covered her up I told her, "you're being rude. You're saying mean things. That is not ok." She started in on "you're a bad mommy." I told her "my job is to teach you how to be a good person, it's not to give you whatever you want." I told her, "that's it, you just lost your blankie too." To which she responded, "I don't need my blankie to sleep."
I turned out the light and closed the door and I saw the light turn on under the door and I heard her jumping on the bed yelling the same stuff. I was so flabbergasted that I went in and took the lights out of her room too and all the toys and just left her with the bedding and a plug in small night light. She finally fell asleep 45 minutes of insults later.
She used to just yell about the radio in the car. She would say, "don't change this song. You like stupid songs. I don't like stupid songs. I like this song." I do realize that she learned to call things stupid from me. That's my go to phrase when things are upsetting me... Like "ouch, stupid door." Etc. that was what I meant by it was a little funny. Her yelling in the car wanting to hear her songs. But this stuff she started pulling this week. Not cute!
Thad for all the great advice. I talked to the teacher the first day of school and asked her to remind my daughter to go and so far no accidents!
Tell her, "I do not respond to rude." Then refuse to respond to anything she says until she says it politely.
well, since you thought for a while that it was cute and funny, you taught her to escalate it. so now it's going to take some time to un-teach her what you encouraged before.
i'm glad you're not considering spanking. it's a poor tactic for sensitive kids too.
when you say time-out and taking things away don't work, what exactly does this mean to you? you probably WON'T get an immediate fix for a problem that took some time to take hold. she's only 3. you've got to develop patience with kids, and look at the big and long-term pictures.
if she doesn't care in that she doesn't immediately show contrition and improve her behavior, it really doesn't mean she doesn't care. this behavior has worked well for her in the past, so you need to invest the time in making her really understand (ie not simply explaining, but demonstrating) that this stuff won't fly.
your best bet is to respond calmly and immediately. she gets none of your attention when she's mouthy. zero. 'i will not be spoken to in that tone. out of the kitchen until you clean up your mouth.' 'no, you may not watch tv (play with your friend, have some ice cream, go to the park) when you use that tone. you can go over there and sit in the time-out chair until you hear the timer. if you come out with the same mouth you went in with, you'll go right back again.' 'we WERE going to go for a bike ride. but since you've decided to be rude, i'm going to enjoy my book. and i'm going to do it in the living room, where rude girls aren't allowed. off to your room.'
consistent. calm. relentless.
khairete
S.
I've always just walked away from mine if they were rude to me or send them away. I just don't deal with them. If we're heading out, dad would stay behind and they wouldn't be welcome to come with us. We even (in certain cases) would make up a fun trip on the spot, so I'd say "I guess you aren't coming with us to get ice cream". Then we'd all pile into car and go get some.
Trust me, around here, it worked quickly. Or being sent to room. I don't really punish so much as show that if you are mean, unkind or disrespectful to others (us or anyone else) they wont' want to hang around you. I figure it will serve them well with friends, future work situations, etc.
Good luck :)
Spanking was never an option here. I'm not sure what that would teach your child other than you get angry when she disrespects you. Better to use your words rather than 2 bads. Just my opinion :)
NEW: No "standoff". Per your example, you turn off the tv. It's bedtime, and if she won't go, take her up there like you did.
But I have to ask - WHERE is she getting this? WHO talks like this? Maybe I was lucky with my son, but I never had anything like this insulting back-talking. Does someone in your household talk to you like this? Or another caretaker/sitter have a situation where this kind of behavior is happening around her?
ORIGINAL: Put on your game face - you know, the stern, hardnose "look" that we can do. Avoid big reactions. It got reinforced for too long because you thought it was "cute and funny" for her to be rude - not her fault.
You have to remove the reinforcement of your reactions - positive AND negative.
Tell her, straight face, stern without anger. "I do not respond to rudeness. I will do x when you ask me nicely." Stick with it. Use this with tantrums, whatever else. Then continue doing what you're doing. If she tries to hit or tantrum in a way that could damage things, send her to her room and tell her she can come out when she is calm.
I disagree that timeouts and taking away privileges are not working. Do you think they are not working because she doesn't seem to be bothered by them? That's ok - I think lots of parents think that because their kiddo shrugs their shoulders when sent to time out, or sings a song while sitting in their room for undesirable behavior, it isn't "working." The key is consistency. Every time, and I mean every, no matter where you are, no matter what you are doing, you could give her a time out if she is rude. 4 minutes is plenty, and no scolding or lecturing before, during or after the time out (other than if she seems confused as to what she did - then just a short "you are saying rude things - time out").
She is the perfect age for 1-2-3 Magic if you want to invest about $10 and a couple hours of your time reading the book. It is kind of funny - I gave a copy of this book to my 25 yr old daughter as a gift to try on my nearly 2 yr old granddaughter (she is cognitively "ahead" so she does get the very basic concept of time out) and my daughter was AMAZED on how well it works. I still use a modified version on my special needs kiddos ages 14 and 16.
Good luck!
Examples?
I agree with most below who say that she doesn't get your attention until she's polite. I love Margie's idea of making up a fun trip on the spot that she doesn't get to go to. Brilliant!
What are the ages of your other kids? How does the older one act?
I notice that you said at first it was cute and funny. It sounds like you might have laughed at her antics and she has a reason to continue it. Now it's not funny anymore, but she likes doing it now.
I think that the best thing you can do is put her in a boring room in your house where there is nothing to do and make her stay in that room for 15 minutes. Yeah, that's longer than the usual minute per year of age. But you have to be MORE stubborn than her to get it across to her that ANY smart mouth she gives is going to get a boring 15 minutes in a boring room every single time. If she is smart mouthing you about wanting something that you say no to, then you must not give it to her for any reason.
She's gotten into this habit and you're going to have to break it now. If you don't, it's not going to get better.
You DO need to give her a lot of positive reinforcement for having a good attitude and talking nicely. Lots of that, and ignoring the bad behavior except for depositing her into that boring room or taking her to the car to leave a favorite activity.
Also, your older one will hopefully reproach the 4 year old for ruining the family activitites. Kind of like the Army, you know. The whole platoon pays the price for one person's screwup.
The other kids will be watching to see if you stand up to this child's behavior. Their behavior will turn bad too if you don't.
You must be 100% consistent, even if it means it is h*** o* your entire family. Going to the park and she starts mouthing off in the car? Turn around and go home. In a restaurant? Take her to the car and strap her in the carseat and sit in the car and don't talk with her at all. She can't have her food until you get home. Take two cars when you all go places so that one parent can deal with her.
Losing privileges is important even if she acts like she doesn't care.
I wish you had given examples of what you see as rude. How I would deal with my kids being rude would be based on their behavior not my offence to that behavior.
Stubborn people, stubborn kids, are easy to control, you just have to get them to think it was their idea in the first place.
I suggest you continue to role model how she is supposed to phrase what she wants, how she is to turn rude into acceptable.
Stop her, and with deliberate intention, tell her "No. You will stop that and do it this way......." And then wait until she practices and then give her a hug or pat and smile for correcting. Do this without attitude yourself. And if she doesn't do it, then I would say, Sorry honey, we're not talking to you until you learn to be nice, be kinder with your words, be helpful,....etc.
I suggest you don't react to her comments and very calmly explain that she will have to sit out for her bad behavior. Put her in time out anyway. She does care, she just knows that it bothers you that she doesn't care. Always be consistent.
What does she do that's rude to you?
It could be the tail end of terrible 3s.
When our son was 3 everyone at day care would tell me what an angel he was and as soon as we'd get home all heck would break out.
It seems that being good all day is a bit of a strain and by the end of the day he got tired and hungry and was just prone to more tantrums at that time of the day.
It seems he trusted me the most so he felt free to let it all hang out - just for me.
Lucky me.
Doing anything on the way home from daycare was just not possible.
The best coarse of action was to go home, have a snack and if possible take a quick nap.
I didn't do time out for a melt down.
I'd pick him up, take him to his room and then he'd be on my lap in the rocking chair until he felt better.
Four is a sassy age. IMO, you deal with it the way you would deal with any sort of rudeness - call her on it, teach her what to do instead. Make the time fit the crime. If she is rude and snotty, then maybe she doesn't get that thing she rudely asked for. If she can't knock the sass, maybe you don't get lunch out or stay at the park or give her 10 more minutes to play. "Excuse me? That's an inappropriate way to talk to me. You need to check your attitude and apologize." If the problem is teaching her to use her words, show her how. Other punishments may not be effective when it's how she says things vs other bad behavior.
It may also not be a bad thing to talk about emotions and how if she's feeling grumpy or hungry, she can say how she's feeling vs just being sassy. My DD will now say, "I'm sorry, Momma, I'm just tired. Can we do x later?"
Write a list of House Rules.
Post it in the kitchen.
Read it with her (all kids) every morning and evening.
If the day is a success (all rules followed)? Star on the calendar.
5 stars=reward/treat.
"Back to Basics Discipline" by Janet Campbell Matson. I had three different types of potentially difficult stubborn 4 year olds (that's how 4 year olds are naturally). The system worked well for all of them. By working well I mean they learned never to start the habit of being rude, and are respectful happy kids to this day.
Firm discipline never needs to be angry. Nor should it. Calm warning. Chance to do right. Praise for doing right. Consequence for deciding to be rude. Some kids are too tough for only time outs and removals to be effective, though keep trying and be absolutely consistent and immediate. Suz's advice is perfect. Some kids learn that way eventually. Only you know what level of compliance you need to run your house in a positive, loving manner that isn't spent doing damage control for a very difficult child who could be acting better. I have friends who say their discipline style of patience is working well, but I would never have allowed that kind of chronic disrespect in my home. I pretty much tolerate the same amount of disrespect my parents did: None. Everyone is different. Spanking doesn't work any less effectively than the things listed, and can be more effective for some kids, but nothing works inconsistently.
It's one tactic to not give her what she wants when she's being rude, but she also needs to be disciplined for being rude if you want it to stop. That way when you verbally warn her, she'll listen.
