RE: To See or Not to See

My advise is going to be much different than the advice you're being given! Therapy is NOT always the best thing.

When my daughter was 4, she came home from Christmas visit at her dad's. She had long been potty trained so when she started doing things like wetting her bed, we knew something was up. But being that she was so young and experience with two older children, I knew that it could have been that she was sick among other things. My husband was in college at the time so he kept her and my younger one, (then 3) until it was time for school and he would drop them with my grandma. During this time, he started noticing things like how she would cling to him and would cry if he needed to say just go to the bathroom. We started catching her curled up in a fetal position, hiding under blankets and then, my husband noticed for the first time her masturbating. I hate to use that term for it but essentially that's what it was. I called my ex right away to ask about anything happening to her. He assured me that I was crazy and that it must be something else or something happening somewhere else. During the days with my husband, my daughter began to let out bits and pieces and finally she was drawing pictures with him and let it all out. One of my ex's friends/employees was at his house and had molested her. I was shocked and honestly didn't want to believe it. I didn't want to deal with the reality of something so gross happening to her. It broke my heart and made me sick all at the same time. My ex denied it repeatedly but I took steps including taking her to therapy. DFACS got involved in both counties. My daughter had to talk to a child advocate to give her testimony. The police were involved and my daughter essentially had to undergo a pelvic exam. The guy was arrested but my ex would not cooperate so the guy wasn't prosecuted. Nevermind the fact that a 4 year old recounted a story that included a conversation where her dad said, "Get out of my house and you're fired." She didn't know this guy worked for him so how in the world he wanted to think that she made up "you're fired" boggles my mind. We took her to therapy once a week. My daughter's behaviors escalated and became more frequent. My ex's grandfather is a prominent psychologist in Tennessee so I called him to talk to him about it. He advised against her continuing since it clearly wasn't doing her any good by keeping it on the forefront so to speak. She's now 13 and stopping the therapy was the BEST thing I could have ever done for her. She knows it happened.

Now I'm not saying that this is the best advice for your family but I'm relaying what helped with us. If I were in your shoes, I definitely would not have my daughter around them at all until they're much older, if at all. I also don't know that I would be around them either. I would probably just give my husband my blessing to go on without me but then again, that's just me. Some grudges are worth holding onto.

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Please don't give up on good, professional and preferably faith-based counselling. Even the best of marriages can use a tune-up now and then. It is so worth it for your sanity and well-being of your family.
I am so sorry that you are dealing with all of this. Do not discount the power of heartfelt prayer for discernment and guidance in the right direction.

God Bless!

Wow. I certainly feel for you and this very sticky situation. I suggest you write to Dr. Robin on Oprah. You can go to Oprah.com and find her on the website/ XM radio. I always feel I learn so much from listening to her. First, I think she would say that you need to be certain that you are not shaming the girls in anyway. That this is not their fault, but also, that it is natural for them to be curious and the truth is, it probably felt a little bit good to them when it happened. So I can imagine they are very confused. I'm not sure about the boy, but it was also probably a natural curiosity for him. That does not mean that I condone it in anyway. I do think that some kids are naturally more sexual than others. I have a friend whose daughter at 2-3 would message herself down there at night before falling asleep. It drove her crazy!
I guess my point is to try to have that conversation with them. Why do they find it so interesting? This is where Dr. Robin is the expert.
I wish you all the best. Let us know what happens.
Take care,
M.

I would not see them.Wonder if nephew is touching his sister since your girls are still doing this with the nephew not being there.Maybe your husband should see his brother without you and your girls

C A, I have been in your shoes!!! Same exact situation. Here is my story: I had 2 boys from a previous marriage whe I met my current husband. All they know is him as there daddy. When they were 4 & 5, his nephew (who was 12 at the time) called to come spend a few weeks with us. We were ok with it except for the fact that it happened really fast, considering they lived in another state. He came on Friday. By Sunday afternoon, my boys had been molested and sodomized 3 times. The last time, I walked in on the act. I was livid!!! We did press charges (that did not help because he was a 1st time offender).We had to take the boys to counseling for the rest of the summer. Horrible. I know how hard it is when it comes to family, but you really need to do what you have to do when it comes to situations like this, regardless who did it. And with it being the 2nd time around, don't let it slide. We took the boys to a children's advocate that the detective in the case referred us to. They were very helpful to them and to us. It is not the boys fault for what was done to them....they were the victims. I feel your pain and aggrevation. You are the one who lives with your girls and you have to protect them.
We had NO contact with his family for 3-4 years because they felt like all of the boys were experimenting! BULL CRAP! I still am leary when we are around him, even though he has a girlfriend...blah, blah, blah. I can't trust him. Keep the girls away or they will be scarred for life.

I sent a private response and then I saw the what happened part. And I just wanted to say again you are thinking correctly and doing what you know best for those girls. They should never be exposed to that cousin again, and I think I would error in the safe side and keep that whole family away from them especially since the denial is occuring. It only takes a second and something could be said to those girls that they may never repeat that will effect them forever. (meaning even supervised visit with the girl cousin or aunt etc could have a negative impact.) Couseling is good for everyone and if you get one that doesnt "get it" find someone else. Go yourself first before sending the kids or your husband. As sad as it is to see a family break apart, someitmes it is what has to happen. In our case all contact has been cut off and will remain that way forever. Our child knows that he is the most important thing to us and comes before anything or anyone else. And maybe your husband needs to try and see how he is not showing your girls that message. I also hate that because the predator is a minor that other people can not be warned. I understand that law to protect innocent people but I know that other children will be abused and it could have been stopped but the law leaves our hands tied. And especially with the parents in denial it will only make things worse. Stay strong, your girls are blessed to have you.

That is just aweful that you and your girls have to go through that. Of course, your girls dont realize how bad it is because they are following another child. I would feel the same way you do, I would try to avoid getting together with them since you know where this behavior is coming from. The last thing you want is for your girls to show any other children this behavior then the guilt is on you. They maybe family but you should listen to your heart. Good Bless you & your family!

Dear CA,

I HIGHLY DISAGREE with the response about counseling not being the best thing. I was molested during a ten year period as a child. When my mother found out, she did not bring me to counseling and continued (to this day) her relationship with the perpetrator. I can never have that mother-daughter relationship every child dreams of because she betrayed me and didn't protect me when she should have. The memories NEVER go away and it affects every aspect of your life! I'm now 27 and seeking counseling and it's the best decision I've ever made! Hope this helps and good luck.

S. W.

Stick with what you are now doing. Don't let family talk u
into doing something u are not comfortable with. Your hubby
should be more supportive of what u are trying to do. Also
have another talk with your daughters maybe one on one and then together. I will keep u in my thoughts and prayers.

I think you are doing the right thing. Talk with the girls and explain that what happened was wrong. I think I would also talk with their cousin and make sure his parents talk with him and then try to get together and explain as a group that it's wrong. I do feel your pain. When my oldest daughter was about 4 and we lived in Germany, I caught her and a little boy doing inappropriate. Some friends of ours had a little boy about a year or 2 older than our daughter. We got to gether on occaision. We lived in the same bldg. All our appartments were 2 bedrooms and the other couple turned the 2nd bedroom into a den and their son's bed was in their bedroom. I'm sure he saw some inappropriate things. Well one day I was looking for my daughter and couldn't find her. I went outside and looked for her and as I turned the corner, I found the little boy laying on the ground and coaxing my daughter to sit on him. They were both fully dressed but I was totally shocked and screamed her name, which upset her. His parents did appoligize and of course she did not play with him anymore.

OH MY GOSH. I have a 7 year old little girl and a 3.5 old little girl and cannot imagine what I would feel like if that happened to either of them. I'm afraid my husband would have done something to "punish" the parents of the child that violated our kid. How does a 7 year old even think or know how to do that? Where did they see it? It is NOT normal and I believe they may have a Molester in the making. I saw a show on Dr. Phil about a little boy who was doing this same thing. RUN RUN RUN I don't care how well they know each other. I have 2 friends who were molested by their parents and brothers from the age of 4 through their teenage years. I'm so sorry this happened to you. Put the girls in therapy with a Child Psychologist and try to find out how You and your Husband should be reacting. I am just shocked right now and feel so bad for you.

In my opinion your instincts are correct, if the person who did this was a stranger, you would never allow your children to be within miles of them. I would also look into another couselor, just to make sure your girls are dealing with this ok and also to get their input on whether they are comfortable seeing that part of the family again. This is really not something to take chances with, I wouldn't just depend on the word of your relative at DFACS. Find a counselor that you all feel comfortable with. If this destroys your marriage, your children may feel that they are to blame, which will further damage them.

Hi CA,
First of all, I commend you for how you have handled this unfortunate situation.

Also, I want to bring to your attention, although you might be aware of it...your children are performing this action due to the strong emotions/sensations, in which makes them feel good. They have uncovered a tabu that makes them think about it often; and entertain and engage in those thoughts. I am certain it was happening longer than the time you had caught them in action.

Unfortunately, you being their mom, they might think you don't understand. That emotion/sensation is so strong, it dismisses your opinions, angry and disapproval. But I think there is still hope. There is no doubt that they need to speak with someone who could relate and/or understand having that type of strong emotions, explain why is it a tabu for them, and how it is something special for a person you love, such as in marriage. They do not need to feel like someone is judging or ridiculing them. But understands that emotions, in which should be done at an appropriate time, with that special love one.

Secondly, I would most defintely suggest NOT to have them around their males cousins. Unfortunately, since their mother was not opened with you, you are clueless as to how long their mother was knowledgable of this sitation, and surely she must feel ashamed to even admit or seek help for their sons.

It is very surprising of the reactions of your husband. Fathers have the nature tendency to be overly protected of their daughter(s). And the thought of anyone, regardless if they are kin or not, hurting their daughters, produces a certain type of anger within them.

Has your husband every talked about his childhood, as it relates to his brother? Does he exhibited happiness or saddness? I am not trying to create negative thoughts, but we has mothers do have to protect our children, by all means.

Lastly, please do not feel guilty for your actions. Stay in prayer, and may you remain focus because my heart goes out to you. But remember...there is always hope.

Find a different counselor! Then, get a family visit as well as one with just the two of you (no twins) so that you both can get your cards on the table regarding what happened.
Your husband sounds like he doesn't want to "hear" what happened to his girls or "believe" what happened.
The fact that the girls are repeating this behavior is shocking. Something happened, they know it and it's not a good thing. I'm surprised that you can forgive this so easily-I don't mean that literally, as I'm sure it was hard for you to finally do, but that you didn't get the law involved and decided to just keep the twins away from the cousins.
I would have gotten the law involved, Pastor, DFCS, Physcologist and anyone I thought could help.
There is NO way my children would be back involved with them. By not allowing the cousins to play together, the female cousin is being 'punished' (in that she is part of the family) but do you know for sure she isn't being abused or abusing your twins? That would be awful as well.
There are some VERY good physcologist out there, investigate with your pediatrician for the best one to handle this. The twins need to be checked by their Dr, if they haven't already. That could be a huge help on your side.
Someone already asked it but.....WHO taught the cousins this behavior and that it was ok to do?? Yikes. Your husband needs to stand up for YOUR family (household) and get to the bottom of this with you as a unified front.
Good luck!

The only thought I can add is that you might want to go to counseling yourself to find out what would be an appropriate way to respond if/when you see them engaged in inappropriate behavior. I would find a counselor that specializes in this issue and find out how to handle the different scenarios you may encounter (ie, how to discuss: with your children why they don't see their cousins, with your husband why your children can't see their cousins, with your husband anything else, etc.).

I went to a counselor (that worked with children) once to find out how to discuss with my daughter why we were moving (I was also about to have my second child and wanted advise on how to deal with all the changes about to happen). The counselor gave me some great advise.

Hope this helps,
L.

My kids would never be allowed to be in a room alone with those kids. And get them a new councilor. And put it to your husband this way, this kid violated his daughters does he want his little girls around someone that did that to them, that taught them that this behavior is OK. I would see if I could have a sit down with all the kids and the adults and explain AGAIN that this behavior is NOT ok. I'd also ask strait out WHERE the boy got this behavior from.