Public School? Charter School? Help!!

IMHO, and this is probably considered an "out there" point-of-view - traditional school is all about creating mindless robots and cogs in the wheel for our extremely consumer-driven society. We need people who need to be told what to do (more easily swayed by advertising) and we need worker bees.

I would not ignore my instincts, and I would consider homeschooling if your heart is calling you to something different for your daughter.

I went to public school, university, and grad school - so I don't begrudge people who send their kids to public schools (they do serve a good purpose sometimes). I just want something different for my own kids, and I've seen them THRIVE with homeschooling (they were both in private school for a long time - but even there you get many of the same philosophies).

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

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You know, I understand what you're saying about the rules, etc. I hate to see the kids at my son's elem school line up like little soldiers, be quiet 10 out of 30 min at lunch and recess, etc., etc. BUT it's a great school.
Life, itself, is somewhat about conforming and following rules, isn't it? Learning to function in a framework of rules and laws.
Learning to follow the rules of a "strict" teacher is not equal to "crushing her spirit"!

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Your child needs to learn how to act and operate within structural boundaries. How will she ever hold down a job or succeed in a traditional learning environment if she doesn't? Even if you find a charter school (and they usually have rules too -they're public schools -and often private schools are even more strict) that is all "touchy-feely" and lets them do a lot of whatever they want -what about middle school? high school? college? At some point she needs to understand that the world doesn't bend to her wishes -that she has to be flexible and, yes, conform to some things. Her spririt doesn't need to be crushed -there's after school, weekends, extracurricular activities where she can express herself,etc. Get her into dance, art, theater, writing when she's older -there are unlimited expressive opportunities, but I think parents who want to move their kids around a bunch or change entire classroom guidelines so their particular child isn't made to act or comply with a different set of rules are doing a GREAT disservice to their kids! At some point, like it or not, she's going to have to sit her butt down, keep her mouth closed and PERFORM OR FAIL. It's not all rainbows and unicorns.

And my 5 year old son just started kindergarten and is very much like your daughter -bright, creative, STRONG-willed, stubborn and a big boundary pusher. We had the choice between a very "touchy-feely -oh we like for them to explore and let them decide what they want to learn" type of charter school and a different charter school with more traditional rules and a more challenging pre-set curriculum. My son's spirit is not being crushed. Is he getting in trouble? Yes. Is he being made to "conform" to their rules when he doesn't want to? Yes. We make him do things he doesn't like at home too, but I certainly haven't seen any of his expressiveness, kindness or curiosity die. He must learn how to act properly in certain settings and that there are consequences to bad behavior. There always have been at home, but it's important for them to realize things are that way everywhere!

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Schools, workplaces, and life are all based around structure. It's not a bad thing. I'm not sure what you think you're going to get at a different school, honestly. She's going to have to follow rules, be quiet, sit still, etc. If schools didn't enforce this with every student, they'd have disorganized mayhem.

It's not as if your child is in school 24/7 - you can foster her creativity & spirit at home. After all, isn't it a partnership? I guarantee you the school is not "crushing her spirit", I find that statement little overly dramatic. This is what extra curricular classes/activities are for, such as dance sports, music, Girl Scouts, etc.

My DD just started K last week & she's already gotten in trouble (sigh). She sounds a lot like your DD, and I'm actually looking at this as opportunity to work out all the kinks.

Have you actually discussed your concerns with the teacher? I don't see how you can really know what's going on from volunteering a couple times in the classroom, but that's me. Not to mention, kids have their own reality & may misinterpret things to make them sound bad when they're not.

I say, stick with it & see what happens. Communicate with the teacher if you are concerned. As far as private school, I highly doubt that will be any different than public school, structure wise. Good luck.

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The thing about institutionalized learning is that they need the children to conform to a particular standard of behavior. Imagine 20-30 five year olds all doing their own "creative" thing in a classroom. Chaos! It just won't work. If you truly want her to be a free spirit, you should consider homeschooling her. Otherwise, she will need to conform to a classroom environment. She needs to have discipline either way, so perhaps you should work with her in that area regardless of what you decide to do.

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Ditto Julie B.
Plus, as a K teacher, the child needs to know she is expected to obey the teacher, follow the rules, and do what is expected. Then she won't be getting into trouble every day.

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Can you change her to another teacher? There is a difference between having a child follow the rules and crushing their spirit. Follow your "mom"instincts and do what is right for your daughter.
Not all teachers and students will get along, no matter how good a teacher may be. Your child's first few teachers will set the tone for their learning and if you have a teacher that shuts her down, it will impact her the rest of school. I went through that with my oldests first grade teacher, and if I had a time machine, I would go back and change her to another teacher. She is in 8th grade and we are still dealing with the effects a bad teacher.

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I'm with Denise P on this one (unusual, I know).

Do what you think is best for your child but think about the message you are sending your child, already in kindergarten.

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Following classroom rules should not stifle her spirit - it is an important lesson for our little ones to learn as we all have rules of conduct to comply with throughout life - school, work, social situations, etc.

My son is now 15, he is smart, and funny, and strong willed and stubborn. I have struggled with his compliance with the rules in school, since kindergarten when he would sit under the table because "I already learned that in pre-school" - and he was right - he already covered much of the kindergarten work in pre-school, but diving under the table was not acceptable classroom behavior.

In 2nd grade he decided he didn't need to take tests because the teacher already knew that he could do the work so the test was a waste of time - this was his mindset.

In 6th grade he butted heads with his teacher - while I did not like her style either, she was the teacher and, as such, he needed to listen to her in class. His response was to not do the work - he figured if he flunked, it would lower the classes grade point average, and since "teachers jobs are tied to student performance" he could get her fired. Amazing logic, albiet skewed, from a 6th grader - he made sure to pass the class - as he could do the work, but he made sure it was just barely because he was determined to stick to his theory that he could get her fired. No, she was not. LOL

Long way around the bushes to say - your daughter will run into many teachers throughout her school career that she will not mesh with - personalities are different and not all children love every teacher they have ever had (think back, I am sure you can remember some you did not like either). But, she will have to learn to cope with teachers, co-workers, classmates, that she does not like. This will not crush her spirit - if my son is any example - his spirit is still very high despite teachers he did not like.

As her mother, you can promote her independent spirit at home, in extracurricular activities, etc., while teaching her how to get along with difficult people. Find out of school activities that will promote her creativity and outgoing manner. It will provide a balance to the rules of school.

Following the rules is not a bad thing - I follow them every day at work, while I am driving, etc. but I still maintain an independent spirit and strong sense of self. Rather like my son :)

And just like your daughter will be - strong, independent, but able to cope with others in a responsible manner.

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My daughter was much like yours, smart, creative, funny and also stubborn and did not want to conform to the rules of the school. Public and private school were not working for her so we homeschool.

I still think it's important that she learn how to follow rules and work within the boundaries of a classroom, but not at the expense of her learning. She was being sent to the principal's office so much she was missing out on learning. And much of her disobediance came from not understanding the work, and then she'd goof off and get the other kids in trouble.

Homeschooling allowed us to work on her lack of understanding. She learns at a slower pace than others and gets frustrated easily, which instead of acting angry, she just wants to change the subject or stop working. Her mechanism was to get the teacher's attention away from the work and onto something else. By slowing down the pace of school to her level she now is working at grade level or above.

She still takes lots of classes like dance and art. I fully expect her to "conform" to the rules or suffer the consequences. She may be as creative or lively as she wants...within the rules. She knows there are times when she has to follow rules, and times when she can make her own rules--the distinction you probably want your daughter to make.

Just a suggestion. I'd also talk to the teacher if I were you. My daughter did have an "ethics" issue, if she didn't understand what was going on she should not be disrupting the class. We homeschooled because of her academic problem, not because of her inability to follow rules. Just want to distinguish between the two.

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Your quote here: "I'm worried that she is being forced to "conform" to a certain guideline and that her creativity and outgoing personality are not being encouraged. I don't want her little spirit to be crushed. I feel like with the reward system this school has setup, she's being set up to fail if she misbehaves in the slightest." This is one of the big reasons we homeschool.

I want my children to learn and keep their love of learning, not just work towards getting that A. I want my children to be able to question things, not just blindly follow what authority says. I want my daughter to be able to engage in her creativity and not have it stamped down by the need to be like everyone else. If my son needs to move around while he's listening to a story we are reading, I will let him do that. If he needs to sit still and be quiet, he will do that as well. The best thing about teaching them at home is that you are able to individualize their education. Not everyone learns in the same way or at the same pace, and being in a large school makes it impossible to cater to every child's learning needs. But you can easily do that by teaching her at home.

I've heard good things about charter schools, but it definitely depends on the school (every school is different). But I suggest also doing some research on homeschooling and see if that would be something you'd want to try as well. Good luck with your decision!

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Totally feel for you since I've been there. No matter how much we worked with the school and the teachers, they will not really change or adjust their system much. Plus they have to force the kids to be quiet and stay put and not ask too many questions so they can get through their lessons and keep their 24 students in order. We did charter and public schools and the experience was the same. I personally believe my own personality was crushed and minimized by my own (good and typical) schooling.
So I started homeschooling my kids this year. Absolutely love it!!! It is work but I love being able to personalize their learning, give them the amount of explaining they may need, 1:1 attention, etc. They are happier, smarter and even better behaved. It took us several years to decide on homeschooling but all roads pointed to it. Good luck and be blessed!

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I think if your gut is telling you that your child's school isn't a good fit for her, you're probably right. Go with your gut.

I think there are good charter schools, and not so good ones- just like with public schools, and even private schools.

The charter school in our town is excellent- my oldest son will be starting 6th grade there on Monday. We have 2 more children in Catholic school, and we are very happy with the education they've been getting.

I went to public school, and feel like I got a really good education, but the public school here isn't very good. The Catholic school in the town I grew up in wasn't very good, and eventually had to close.

I think even a good school is not always a perfect fit for every child. Some children have a hard time with traditional teaching methods, and learn better in a different kind of setting. Montessori might be a good fit for your daughter, but I hear they are very expensive- (my SIL wanted to send my nephew to one, but they couldn't afford it).

I'd say look into all your options- ask people you know about their experiences, check out the websites for the schools, and call and make an appt. for a tour. I think one will stand out for you more than the rest.

Good luck!! =o)

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What mom of many said...homeschool her.

Hi, R. -
My opinion is that you give this just a little more time. You said "you think" your daughter and her teacher are butting heads. Has there actually been a conflict? Are you getting notes home from school? My daughter sounds very much like yours in temperament and personality, and the first few months of Kindergarten were difficult. Seems like we had a note home every single day. I shared my concerns with the teacher, and she shared that this was more normal than not, and to give it until the end of the year. She assured me that the kids do a lot of maturing in the first few months of school, and that things just seem to turn around. For us, that's exactly what happened. Conformity, perhaps to varying degrees, will be required of her at any school. Before you pull your child from her school, you have an honest conversation with her teacher about your concerns. You might feel much better. Good luck.

I have an extremely strong willed, intelligent boy who is now in the 6th grade. In K we had him placed in a private school that was not what I had hoped the experience would be - he was being bullied and academics were lacking. I toured the charter schools and found one I liked. Luckily, they had a spot for him (last one available) and he has been there ever since. He spent the entire K year on red! We struggled with behavior for several years and some years we had great teachers and some years not so great teachers. He eventually matured and is doing great now. I think you need to talk to your daughter and see if she is happy in her classroom. Then talk to the teacher about your concerns. She may have a different take on the situation. All children need to learn to sit still, pay attention to the teacher, and do what they are told. If you feel that your daughter is unhappy and the teacher is unresponsive to your concerns, then look at other options.

Charter school won't be any different, in fact they will probably expect more of her.
A big part of school, be it public or private, is "socialization" (sitting still, paying attention, following directions) so if you aren't comfortable with your child learning these commonly accepted social norms, then you may be better off home schooling.

Try out San Tan Learning Center, a charter school on Higley and Ray. My son goes there and likes it. They have more of a hands on approach. I feel like my son's experience there has been nurturing. But your experience could have to do with the teacher and not with the school.

Schools do have to have a standard set of behavior or there would mayham. If you truly believe its not working try a montasori school. Make sure its accredited. You child does need to learn to behavior a certain way when she is out in public though. Also be careful you do not want your child getting the brunt of any teacher because you have meddled too much. You must save that sort of thing for bullying or dangerous issues. If your not happy with the teacher then either switch her school or her teacher. I would ask though first you child. Is she happy there. A little problem with the teacher but her getting along with everyone else? She might love it.

My girls (older 2 of 3 children) go to Benjamin Franklin Charter School... they are in 3rd grade and Kindergarten. I love this school, and they have a good academic record. But as much as I love this school, it doesn't sound like it would fit your daughter, and let me tell you why. BFCS is very, very structured and academically oriented. My Kindergartener also has an outgoing personality and loves to talk and tell stories, but as she has found out- there is a time and place for her to be outgoing and loquacious, and that is on the playground, not in the classroom. Now don't get me wrong, my Kindergartener is having a great time (at least she says she is!)

And to be honest, you may not be able to get your daughter into a charter school at this late date. Charter schools usually have a waiting list. There are only so many slots available and they usually fill up. Throughout the year, if students move (to another school or to another city) and have to leave the school, they pull new students from the waiting list. Then after a certain point in the year, they just don't pull new students from the list, as it would be difficult for the new student to catch up (BFCS teaches a grade above what the state mandates, so my 3rd grader is actually doing 4th grade work... as for the Kindergartener- they do Kinder work the first part of the year, then 1st grade work the 2nd part of the year)

In my opinion, charter schools tend to be more strict as they have more to prove then the regular public school... heck, they could lose their charter!

Hi R. - I dont believe that the charter school is going to be any different as they tend to enforce even stricter codes of etiquette. I would suggest meeting with the teacher to ask her how her experience has been with your daughter - you need to be open to what she has to say. Only after hearing what the teacher's experience is can you strategize for the future and offer the teacher some suggestions on ways to work with your daughter that are productive and dont leave her feeling squashed and angry. If that goes nowhere, you can discuss it with the principal.

I have a feeling that maybe your daughter's high energy and strong will are redirecting the other student's attention away from the teacher and unintentionally disrupting the classroom environment. I can imagine your daughter is exuberant and excited and probably talking more than usual. She sounds pretty smart and could very well be testing this new teacher to see what her boundaries are. This is a good thing that the teacher is holding her ground because the teacher is the authority in the classroom. She has to be for everyone to have an equal opportunity to learn. Classroom discipline and following rules isnt going to break her spirit. Kindergarten is the place where these little guys first learn how to keep themselves ordered. In our school last year, I witnessed a kinder class walking single-file down the hall coming back from one of their "specials". The line was a little strung out but I didnt notice anything bad going on. The principal however actually stopped the line and kindly suggested they could do a much better job. He turned them all around and had them do the walk over again, this time close together in line and absolutely silent. The kids all complied and learned from the experience. Had there been a strong-willed, stubbotn ot sometimes-defiant little one in the group, he would have to deal with that child in a stronger fashion than the others.

If you want your daughter to have complete freedom to express herself at any time, then you might want to consider home-schooling. A Montessori environment might also be an option however there is order in the classroom there as well.

I hope that helps to give you some perspective - blessings to you!