Pregnancy Discrimination Spin-off UPDATED SWH

I believe we should all act in a manner that is respectful and kind. I feel that employers should treat their employees the way they would want their sons or daughters treated. This includes giving adequate potty breaks for pregnant women just like you would give someone who is differently abled time and any special tools to get to their job done etc. Pregnancy is something that should be protected under the disability laws. We all as a society should take care of eachother and not have the mentality of every man for himself/herself constantly. Gratitude and selflessness goes a long ways and we would have a much happier group of people if people thought of their neighbor first and then thought about what they want.

I hope not. I didn't work out of the home after I had children but it seems to me bathroom breaks for anyone pregnant or not should be able to be taken if there is a need. I'm anxious to hear if you get other replies from women who work out of the home.

I think the problem with that question is she wanted the right to all the breaks she needed but felt she should be paid for them. So when you put it that way you will get your kid your problem responses even from the it takes a village people.

I do think parents are not taking responsibility for their kids, it seems to be a trend. Everyone should want to be a part of this, right? Kid isn't potty trained on time, preschools fault. Not good grades, schools fault. Not good at sports coaches fault. It seems like parents fault isn't seen anymore, perhaps that is why so many kids are having problems, maybe?

I can say I would never turn my back on someone in need. Now someone who just wants, that may very well be a different question. Going back to that question, let us say for laughs she is paid 15 an hour, that means unpaid breaks are five dollars a day. So instead of looking at it like why shouldn't she get it paid, perhaps look at why shouldn't her safety and her child's safety be worth 5 dollars a day, 25 a week, because if she can't afford that how is she going to afford 200 a week for child care?
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NJD, why? Because we all have fought and are still fighting for equal rights. Acting like a helpless woman to get extra benefits sets us back like a million years. When employers look at women they don't see those of us that bust our butts, they see women like her whining as if pregnancy is a disability. I don't want a employer to look at me and see her!
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Interesting twisting of words but totally off base. Not one post here said no one else should share the burden, what we said was it shouldn't be expected and there is actually a huge difference.

What the potty woman was asking for is that she bear NO financial responsibility for the child and her extra potty breaks be paid for by every employee equally. Didn't you see that or were you two busy planning this post in your head. She wasn't asking to meet her in the middle, she was saying I shouldn't be put out at all by my own child. Everyone else should be put out.

She does not have a child knocking on the village door, she left the little bugger on her neighbor's doorstep!

No one was saying your baby your problem. They were saying if you want to drink water then clock out to pee. Maybe if it is coming out of your pocket you will think that perhaps all your water doesn't need to be drunk on the clock.

It is late, and I have had wine, so I may not be the best to answer this, but -

No,

people/employers/society at large are not responsible for our children. If we choose to bring them into this world then we are responsible for taking care of them. That means financially, emotionally, and physically, taking care of them. Raising them to be responsible citizens and self sufficient adults who, in turn, will raise the next generation of responsible citizens and self sufficient adults.

And yes, we are solely responsible for our pregnancies - in that we control our own reproduction. Do we sometimes have medical issues? Of course, but the previous poster just wanted to get paid to pee. I don't think that is the employer's responsibility.

I had medical issues during my pregnancy, once my leave time was exhausted, I was just not paid. It was not my employer's responsibility to support me beyond what my employment contract (that I agreed to) outlined. To expect more, from employer's, society, strangers, is to have a sense of entitlement that usurps personal responsibility.

Pregnancy is not a disability. I will never support pregnancy being called, or treated as a disability. I made the choice to get pregnant. I had a VERY awful, high risk pregnancy. I could not meet any of the duties of my job, so I did not work there. I did not try to make them pay for a job, that I could not do. That's ridiculous. Calling pregnancy a disability is ridiculous. I'm not going to expect other people to accommodate my choice. If a woman (or man) can't do her job, because of a family choice, then she should not have her job. People shouldn't get paid to procreate, and they shouldn't get benefits no one else does, because they are a mommy. I actually think part of the pay differences has to do with this. In all my working years, mothers asked for more, took more time off, were late more, left early more, called in sick more, expected more accommodations...then any man I worked with. Many women say "I want to be equal, I want equal pay," but then they turn around and want special treatment. And to be paid for work and perks/accommodations that aren't equal. So, which is it? Equal pay and treatment, or special treatment? Can't have both. I think that really causes a divide, and why women can sometimes struggle for respect in the workplace. I actually agree with this article http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-... which your question made me think of.

Just my opinion. I don't think gender matters, actually. Men or women shouldn't get special accommodations, because they choose to make a baby. However, I think women expecting special treatment choosing to make a family, really sets us back.

Ditto Jo W's answer, particularly this section which I have merely chosen to cut & paste:

"Can say I would never turn my back on someone in need. Now someone who just wants, that may very well be a different question. Going back to that question, let us say for laughs she is paid 15 an hour, that means unpaid breaks are five dollars a day. So instead of looking at it like why shouldn't she get it paid, perhaps look at why shouldn't her safety and her child's safety be worth 5 dollars a day, 25 a week, because if she can't afford that how is she going to afford 200 a week for child care?
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... Because we all have fought and are still fighting for equal rights. Acting like a helpless woman to get extra benefits sets us back like a million years. When employers look at women they don't see those of us that bust our butts, they see women like her whining as if pregnancy is a disability. I don't want a employer to look at me and see her!

Pregnancy is not considered a disability.
You get pregnancy leave if your doctor thinks you are at risk.
Other than that, a normal pregnancy works like a normal woman.

Women can't just fold all up and expect free stuff and special treatment while pregnant. It's not that way anymore. We are equal, wanting equal pay. We can't be sissies.

If the doc gives instructions because of a volatile pregnancy that's a different ballgame, an employer should then accommodate the employee. That's the law.

I thought those remarks were uncalled for. A company who doesn't let their employees go take a wizz is short-sighted, that's for sure. It costs a lot to train new people for jobs, when if they were supportive and offered a bit of flexibility, they'd have loyal employees AND save money.

My post to her shared personal experience. I was the manager in my office and would NEVER have told someone who needed to go to the bathroom that they could not go. Quite frankly, creative employees who have time to THINK during the day rather than just "do" all day long are actually LEADERS and help move along companies rather than just doing the same grind. The idea that companies don't pay for you to pee is very shallow thinking. Shallow thinking never made a company really successful.

Dawn

We all have to take some level of responsibility for decisions we make. Including pregnancy. 81 minutes of potty time is more than generous. I would use the bathroom once every 2 hours when i was pregnant, taking about 3 minutes per visit. So that accounted for 12 minutes lost per day. Not much more than my co-workers.

I also paid for my own maternity leave. For my 2nd child, i purchased short term disability insurance to help ease the expense of my leave. If I could find a way to do it making as little as i did, then so should other people. Why should i have to supplement anyone elses lifestyle choices? And heck, if you can't save up enough vacation & sick time and money in savings to cover your 6 weeks of leave, how are you ever going to afford child care?

Ok, that's my opinion.

I think it would be nice if pregnant women and new parents got more perks, as they do in some European countries. But of course that would be too socialist for some.

But there was something about her considering her pregnancy a disability that was a little off-putting. Unless I misunderstood the post, and she actually has some kind of disability that necessitates all the water-drinking. I don't recall having to drink gallons of water when I was pregnant, so I don't see the need for guzzling water and spending excessive amounts of time in the bathroom. But maybe there's more to her story.

Now if she had said: the baby is on my bladder and I have had to use the restroom more frequently, therefore my supervisor is reprimanding and threatening me, or something like that, then I can see filing a discrimination complaint.

Like I said, if I misunderstood the post, and she actually has a disability, sorry.

A family should be able to have children. Why in the world would someone say that the whole reason a woman has reproductive organs a disability.

I have IBS with chronic diarrhea. If I drink a sip of OJ, a sip of water, a sip of milk, anything before I have at least one meal in my body before I drink anything I can guarantee I am going to be sitting on the toilet for at least an hour in the afternoon with cramps that double me over and bring tears to my eyes. I am also going to be squirting runny fluid out my hiney.

So, should I just stop drinking anything on the days I have to work? Of course not. I have to deal with the consequences of my eating and drinking myself.

BUT when I also worked in a call center my bosses put my on the row of desks right by the ladies bathroom and if I felt the need I had to simply ask my customer if I could put them on hold for a moment to check something. They always said yes, especially when the next spat of questions they asked me all got the same answer. "I'm not sure sir, I would need to put you on hold to check on that information". I did wear a diaper so that if I didn't quite make it my clothing would be protected somewhat.

Life is too short to argue with someone about bathroom time. If you need to go you need to go whether you are pregnant or not. If it starts to take time from your productivity at work you should not get paid for the time you are taking off work to go.

I think that our efforts in this area are better spent on bigger issues - access to affordable, quality health care, some sort of paid leave, accommodations for mothers who pump breast milk when returning to work, and access to affordable, quality child care when the baby is here.

As a mom who has managed to work FT and progress in her career through four pregnancies and while raising four children, I feel a responsibility to use my success to continue to pave the way for those who come behind me. I recommended that my (male) boss accommodate a colleague's request for part-time work after her first child was born and am very vocal about how valuable benefits like health insurance, paid leave, pumping breaks and flexibility have been to me and have made no bones about that fact that without these policies in place, my company would lose a lot of talented women.

That said, if we posit every routine pregnancy as a "disability" that must be "accommodated," we are turning this vital role that working mothers fill into a liability. For someone who sits at a desk to require more than 5 breaks a day and expect to be paid for them in a job where literally every minute counts (call centers are literally staffed down to minutes with little wiggle room) doesn't seem to me as critical as, for example, making sure that someone who does manual labor is allowed to not lift heavy objects or stand on her feet all day.

It didn't sound like she was in a 'typical' office setting. Not only that but she needed her job and it was decent money. Lots of employers have strict work rules, which I don't see a problem with. Would she have taken the job anyway, knowing their strict policies, probably.

She needs the job and should work with the company. She has a total of 81 minutes a day to pee, sounds plenty to me UNLESS she has a medical issue. How about asking to sit closer to the rest room?

And no, to your question; it's nice if people are "considerate" but you can't expect it.

In response to the question asked in your ETA: In my opinion, yes, the decision to have a child belongs to the two potential parents and in a perfect world, those two parents will make the choice to reproduce only when they are ready to physically, emotionally, mentally and financially provide for the child.

I didn't answer the other post, but I believe she indicated she was in a call-center. It doesn't work like a regular office and there isn't as much flexibility.

I have worked in places where I have all the flexibility I want. I LOOKED for a job like that after I became a single mom. it's called mommy-tracking for a reason. I was no longer WILLING to do the things I did before when I didn't have a kid. spur of the moment travel, inability to leave in the middle of the day and pick up a sick kid.... those "perks" are important to me now. And they weren't back then. So I make WAAAAY less money now.

But even lots of jobs that AREN'T in a call center.... Breaks are regulated. Look at the checkout person at Wal-mart (or the grocery store or wherever). They can't just LEAVE and go pee when they want. Because they have a line of people waiting for them to be checked out. and their drawer has to be counted and balanced each time they leave. They can't just leave and go eat something if they feel nauseous. Because they have to be present at their job until their specified "break period".

if you work at a factory you can't just shut the line down because you have to pee.

So - someone who is, for WHATEVER reason unable to go for however many hours without peeing..... well, they can't have that job. These are choices that we make in life. You. Can't. Have. Everything.

I guess I look at this similar to when "smokers" think they get extra breaks. At some jobs they do. At some jobs they can't. If you're a smoker and you can't make it from when you arrive until your first break where you have to pee, get a drink, grab a smoke.... then THAT JOB ISN'T FOR YOU. Same as being pregnant or being a mom or whatever.

I made a choice to have my daughter. By not staying in a shitty marriage I made a choice to be a single mom. Which meant it was All. On. Me. She gets sick.... I go pick her up. could I hire someone who would so I could stay at my better paying job? Yep. But that's not the kind of mom I want to be. So, I found a lower paying, more flexible job that could accommodate the priorities in my life.

As far as being on mamapedia during the day or staring off into space.....
Again.... there are jobs where you can do that. I used to work retail. There were days during the Holidays that honest to goodness I opened those doors at 10am and didn't get a chance to eat or pee until I left for the day.... we were that busy and we were understaffed and whatever.

Not all the jobs in the world are flexible. We make choices. We can't have it all. You have to do what makes you be the person you want to be.
I, personally, don't feel like the rest of the people at my job should have to do extra (or deal with unhappy customers because they are now understaffed for the day because I have to go pick up my sick kid) so I found a job that doesn't work like that. But I had more choices than someone who has only ever done factory work.

I think that woman SHOULD have to use her benefit time if the break schedule doesn't work for her. She shouldn't get extra breaks just because she is pregnant, or has a sick kid, or is a smoker, or whatever. I think she has a feeling of entitlement that I guess I wasn't raised to have.

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ETA: We don't live in a socialist society. We live in a Capitalist society. Capitalism is built on productivity.
Yes, a company determines a "standard" for what is allowed. If YOUR personal circumstances don't fit within that standard then you look elsewhere for a job.... or you move to a society that doesn't have an economic system built on productivity. That means ANY personal situation - your *fault* or not.
I know that I am already overloaded at work. Even though I have some flexibility, I still have a full job that takes me more than 40 hours to complete. If I had to pick up someone else's work because they have to leave..... then I am just that much more overloaded, or MY work doesn't get done by MY deadline..... then MY job suffers. There isn't *balance*.... because in a capitalist society, if one "gets".... one gets "taken away from". that's how it works here in the Good Ole USA. Republicans want LESS interference. Less Government. LESS regulation. when you have that kind of society..... well, yes...... pregnancy is seen the same as any other choice that just inhibits and employees ability to be "there" for the job. If you only have 5 people who you can hire..... why would you hire people who you KNOW are going to have to leave for the day sometimes? you don't. THAT'S capitalism. That's a society without regulation.

The employer is making reasonable accommodations for her "disability". It doesn't sound like they are saying that she can't take bathroom breaks. Just that they won't pay for them beyond what everyone else gets. Employers wouldn't even be expected to pay for someone to take dialysis breaks. They would just be expected to allow for those breaks to ACCOMMODATE that disability.

NJD, I'm really surprised that you would consider being a mom to small children a disability. This is such a slap in the face to anyone with a permanent disability.

Sure people can slack off at work, check mamapedia, and talk around the water cooler.....when they are not customer service representatives being paid to answer phones.

So to answer B.'s question, yes I do believe that we are responsible for our pregnancies and our children. There are enough social programs and legislation in place to make sure we can care for our children even if we lose our ability to work. We are fortunate to live in the U.S. and not another country where a woman would be forced to beg on the streets if she couldn't work and didn't have family to help support her.

****I edited this answer because I accidentally referred to NJD as the person who asked the previous question about the bathroom breaks. My apologies!

Pregnancy is not a disabling condition (unless there is a problem), nor is parenting.

I did not expect my employer to make concessions for me while pregnant and I do not expect concessions now that I have my children. I chose to have children and choose to work therefore I take responsibility for whatever needs to happen so that those two things can continue.

Yes, we are solely responsible for our own choices and actions including electing to have a family. My current supervisor does not have children, nor is she married. Depending on the situation, she is flexible but I am expected to do my job at the level she has set... if that means cracking the laptop at night after the kids go to bed because I cannot stay late... my choice. She has set the expectation. I accepted the position. The details are MY responsibility, not hers.

i think that technically, the sole responsibility is yours. if you want to have a child, you are assuming the entire responsibility for that little life. you will support them financially, be responsible for the person they become, not to mention you are responsible for everything from fixing breakfast to making sure they are clean and clothed. (i.e. not the government's job, not with money from family, etc)

however, i do think it "takes a village" and that family help is priceless. and i use it. but i do not think it is my "right" that someone watch my child while i go out and do something else....it is WONDERFUL and i am very grateful when it happens, but i don't think i have a "right" to it. if that makes sense? i have never been one to pay a stranger or relative stranger to watch my child. that's my job. but i am also blessed with family who WANTS to spend time with him. so i get my breaks. it would be harder for me if i didn't have their support (emotional, especially!)

but i have also always been VERY independent. i don't expect anyone to do what i consider "my" job, in any area. and as a manager i see soooo many people whose attitudes (at work, yes, but in life in general, once you start talking to them) is that people should do things for them. they shouldn't have to "do that", for x, y, or z reason. it irks me to no end, how many excuses people will find to get out of any kind of work. so i get stubborn and go in the opposite direction. my boss recently had to talk to me very seriously about delegating some things, because she felt i was doing too much.

so yeah....i go in (from what i can tell) is the direct opposite of the seeming trend in this country. and i am proud of that. i work my a$$ off, and despite what people say, no, i don't think that is normal at all.

to NJD - read the question, and her responses, again. i said in my response and i will say it one more time. NO ONE said she shouldn't get to pee - not even her company. the company made the VERY reasonable request, that if she exceed the normal amount of time used, that she not get paid for it. i guess i qualify as a "terminator" mom (wth is that anyway- are you accusing me of wanting to terminate her pregnancy?? -and you're asking what's wrong with US?) because i expect that she not get PAID money to NOT work. what is wrong with YOU? no one but this girl is making her pregnancy harder on her. she is choosing that too. if we are "stressing her out", she needs to really grow up. but then, that much was obvious.

and back to my point. why all of a sudden is it everyone else's responsibility to make life easier for people? it's not. it's my responsibility to make life easier for MY family. (which, by the way, means raising my son to be able to WORK and succeed in life, when everyone else just wants to coast by) so i work my butt off to do that. wish more people would. it's about work ethic. not disability. bottom line.

I think Dawn has made some excellent points and I agree with her.

Also, let's remember that all these rules about breaks and clocking in/out and no accommodations for anyone date back to the time when there were virtually no women in any positions of authority. So men made the rules. A few women might be in good positions but they were often what were called "spinsters" or otherwise not those likely to get pregnant. Women who got pregnant stayed home because 2 salaries weren't necessary, day care wasn't available, or it was considered "unseemly" to continue to work. Or all of the above. In fact, it was legal to ask women their marital status during interviews and ask their childrearing plans. And women didn't get jobs to begin with if they were in a "high risk" category - namely under 40. So a lot of us, or our mothers, worked awfully hard to get laws in place so these questions couldn't be asked, so that pregnant women couldn't be fired, and so women's health care would be covered under insurance plans just like men's health care was. Maternity leave was instituted, and that was later expanded to family leave to allow fathers to do the same thing. And then there's the whole equal pay thing. And so many issues affect people with other disabilities but some companies are still trying to make it hard by forcing you to disclose the nature of your "disability" (like it's their business to know you are 8 weeks pregnant), and essentially intimidate people into compliance.

So going back to the "you got pregnant, it's your problem" and "we aren't paying you to have sex" is a huge problem now. A lot of us women have heard this so much, we just repeat it because we don't see the whole context over the past 40 years. It was a huge issue in the recent political races, nationally and in individual states. I think the reason it is making us run scared is that people are so afraid to lose their jobs because they aren't sure they can get another one, and of course they can't afford to be docked.

What's ridiculous is that people are checking their email and Facebook pages, drinking coffee, playing solitaire on the work computers, and so on. So singling out the women for having to pee during pregnancy seems a little shady to me. But what's happened is that there's a whole lot of competition and fear in the workplace now, and good people are being pitted against other good people. (If I go pee, I won't get paid, or someone else will be resentful....or whatever.)

It wasn't all that long ago that we didn't have a 40 hour work week, overtime, sick leave, safe working conditions, and child labor laws too! All the jobs went to white men because they had "families to support."

It's the largest companies that can afford to be so strict because they have the biggest legal teams to make it hard for the "little guy" or "little lady" to feel that they have any power.

And like Dawn said, they just don't realize that happy people are much more loyal and much more productive.

If anyone thinks we are all responsible for our own situations and children, let's see if they really think our companies should take back health insurance, time off, safety regulations, and all the other things that have made our society better.

I don't know why all these moms are so offended about something like this, to the point where they are causing so much stress to a pregnant woman who already has medical issues, by being so hateful!

What about this is so offensive, to cause such a strong reaction? It's like people have been programmed to hate all that is good and beautiful in this world. No mercy LOL... over a freaking potty break?!!!!!!! Get over yourselves! High school teachers aren't even allowed to deny a student a bathroom break.

Please , please, please, please tell me... terminator moms... have you ever spent more than 6 minutes at work (on the clock), NOT WORKING? LOL. You've never stared into space? Text messaged? Made phone calls (not work related)? Surfed the internet? Chatted with friends on facebook? Talked to co-workers about your weekend? CHECKED MAMAPEDIA? Get over yourselves.

What is wrong with these women?!!! Good Lord.

And I've looked up the definition of disability in my state... I personally think that pregnancy SHOULD be considered a disability... and so should being a mom to small children. Stop under-valuing the hard work and sacrifice it takes to be a mom! By raising the next generation of GOOD citizens, we are doing you a favor! I don't know when terminator career mom has time to raise her kids... or give them the emotional and psychological nurturing that they need. If you HAVE to work, that's one thing... but if you are choosing to work, when you don't need to, and have children... I think that is flat out selfish. I wish I lived in the 50s!!!!!!! I swear I do.

I think it is a very sad, but logical outgrowth of our materialistic society. When we view people as merely consumers and producers, rather than human beings, made in the image and likeness of God, we reduce one another to economic units.

I would like to think that we could, instead, view each human life that enters the world as a precious gift from God, and would support one another in encouraging procreation.

First of all, the word "disability" and "pregnant" do not go together in my book. I would never consider myself while I was pregnant or being an attentive mom a disability. It has been a blessing for me to have and raise my daughter, now 17.

As for responsibility... I believe everyone should take personal parental, responsibility. IF you make the decision to have a child, it is YOUR responsibility to make sure that child has the care, love, support (both financially and emotionally) and a good stable home. I am also a firm believer that it is MY responsibility as a parent to make sure my child graduates from college debt free and MY responsibility to make sure my financials are in order for my retirement, preparations for possible true disability down the road as I age is taken care of and live debt free.

We as parents are the role models for our children and we can make a difference if we teach our children from day one personal responsibility.

So YES, I believe parents bear responsbility for their children. If you can't do that, then wait to get pregnant until you can give the child a good quality of life.

I work for a laboratory and call on OBGYNs. I have had so many of them share with me that women run in before their pregnancy test is dry to claim disability long before there are any issues.

My daughter is MY responsibility (and her dad's)! I adopted her in an emergency situation so I have never been pregnant (by plan) but know tons of expectant mothers that do not look at pregnancy as a disability.

This is exactly why I volunteer information that my daughter is 19 and I will have no child conflicts because people assume I have younger children. Unfortunately, my ex-husband is reluctant to hire pregnant women because he has been burned way too many times.

OMG. I worked for one crazy control freak who wanted to implement the pollicy that no one was to use the bathroom other than during specified break times AND it was to be done in alphabetical order. Each person had 5 minutes in the bathroom and the other 5 minutes was for grabbing a snack, making personal phone calls, etc.

Frankly, we basically revolted. We had a pregnant woman on staff and she peed whenever she needed to. I got a severe kidney infection and tried to keep up with work. I peed whenever I needed to. The alphabetical order thing? I would have LOVED for the potty nazi to put any of her policies in writing because she was a complete wing-nut.

We worked in a very high volume, high pressure insurance agency and not one of us were taking advantage of the right to go to the bathroom. There was a bathroom (one toilet) for women and a separate one for men. The men could spend 20 minutes in the bathroom however many times a day they wanted, but the office manager literally went to serious extremes with the women.

Our bladders and bowels can't tell time. When you gotta go, you gotta go.
I'm not sure how this got twisted into each of us being responsible for our own pregnancies, which of course, we ARE. I'm just wondering what a woman who is pregnant and needing to pee more has to do with not being able to fulfill her job obligations, etc.

Not to offer TMI, but women who have periods might need to use the bathroom at certain times outside of "breaks" for hygiene purposes. How can that be construed as offensive or wasting time to anyone?

With the exception of the one place I mentioned, all my employers have been very accommodating when it comes to bathroom breaks. Perhaps it's because I work in the medical field now and voiding what you've got in your system is perfectly normal and healthy. Even doctors do it!

I don't know how to answer this failry broad question, so I'll answer the restroom part. I have always gone when I needed to. Period. Except for when I want to finish my thought while answering a question on Mamasource and I sit in my chair for too long. It simply does not occur to me check in to go pee! I drink about six to eight bottles of water a day. The 16.9-ounce bottles. My plumbing works ALL DAY LONG. I run in and run back out. And I get my work done. Unless I have some condition that keeps me in for 10-15 minutes at a time all the time, then I don't see why it even needs to be discussed by an employer.

My advice to that particular poster was to figure out ways to remain productive instead of focusing on what her rights should be. I think that she was treating her pregnancy as a disability.

Yes, I think that when we have children, we take on the responsibility of having to figure out how to work everything into our lives and not hand that burden over to others.