Please Help with My Biggest Parenting Challenge Yet

Separate, separate, separate. No matter who instigated it. This way, you don't have to see who started it. You get to be like the Army - if one misbehaves, they all pay the price. Fun activities are dropped like a hot potato and they are both in their separate rooms and you can even make them do a not-so-fun chore once they are out of time-out. (And a LONG time-out for their ages, too.) If they start fighting outside of the home, back home you go, regardless of where you are. (Hard for you, I know.) More stuck in their room time, and another unloved chore.

If you instigate this approach at the very beginning of the summer and follow-through with 100% consistency, and be TOUGH about it 100% of the time, they will start telling each other to behave before M. separates them. Every bit of the fun of picking on each other will be gone if you do this.

I promise it will work if you DO it, and do it every single day until they cave in. They will still test you after you think all is smooth sailing, and then you have to POUNCE again to make them know that the rules are still the rules.

You have the power, Mom. Just Do It.

Dawn

haven't read the other responses so sorry if it's a repeat. "Siblings Without Rivalry" author Faber. It's been around forever and is THE best book about dealing with sibling issues. BTW it's usually just a phase.

On the occasions when that was an issue with ours (and sometimes it still is, at ages 13 and 10) I simply tell them that they CANNOT speak or touch one another. The end. Forbidden things are that much more attractive.

"Since you two cannot get along or play nicely, the truck/ball/toy is mine for now. Do not touch or speak to your brother/sister until I say you can."

The first time it may very well shock them. That is the ideal. :)

When you see them start to try to make amends (either to you or to their sibling) you can very briefly (no lectures!) tell them that they must treat each other with respect. Not just don't be mean, but BE NICE. Then let them have "another chance to play nicely".

It doesn't usually take my kids long before they are trying to figure out how to play together again. Usually my son (the older one) is falling all over himself to apologize and make up with his little sister. Maybe that is his personality, maybe it is b/c he is older, or maybe it is a little of both.
But don't banish either child to their room. Just don't let them interact. Period. And take whatever they are arguing over. It doesn't matter WHO started it. Just take the item they both want and put IT in time out.

I have a 5 and 6 yr old. This is the one annoyance in my life. Everything else is gravy, but when they start bickering, arguing, tattling, or pushing each other it goes all through me like nails on a chalkboard.

The way I deal with it is if they are arguing over something, I encourage them to negotiate. If they can't settle it I take it away. If they are bickering and I didn't see who started it, they are both in trouble. This cuts down on the tattling and the bickering. They know they can't blame it on the other person just to get them in trouble. If I didn't see it, they are both in trouble. They know I have zero patienece for it and therefore zero tolerance.

You asked for wise moms - I'm pretty sure I'm neither, but they let me answer anyway! :)

I noted one little thing that I have a different perspective on.

I understand the logic that 6 year olds are more mature - but I would guess being permenent roommates with a 3 year old might make the 6 come down from whatever maturity she has in order to 'fight fire with fire'.

Might I suggest punishing them both with an appropriate 3 year old punishment? Maybe the punishment for kids fighting is both have to spend time in the high chair in the kitchen where mom can watch. Or maybe the quick swat the 3 year old gets should also be given to the 6, who has outgrown it.

I'm also a big fan of the fake vacation. Pack up the car, leave and wait. They fight - one warning of "we'll turn this car right around"....and then wait. Second fight - turn around!

Tell them that you'll THINK about trying again tomorrow if they can behave.

Maybe something like that adjusted to your situation might help?

I make them sit across from each other (criss cross applesauce style)...and look at each other until they can be nice.

It works so fast and last a few days when I have to do it. I now say "once more and criss cross applesauce time out"...and WHOA two new kids join our family.

Ah, yes. I'm picking up what you're laying down, mama. Same story in this household. My girls are 3 years apart, and are like oil and water - totally different personalities, and each seems to live to irritate her sister!

To be honest, if you feel like your 3 year old can fend for himself (i.e. you know your 6 year old will not physically hurt him), let them at each other. Seriously. When I stopped interfering, they started getting along a lot better. (Well, that, and they are getting a little older now - mine are 7 and 9.5.) I only interfere if I hear blood-curdling screams. When one or the other comes to me and says, "SHE WON'T GET OUT OF MY ROOM!" or "SHE'S MAKING WEIRD NOISES AT ME!" or "I CAN'T FIND MY (fill in favorite toy here) AND I THINK SHE STOLE IT!" my standard response is, "Work it out with each other." Truly, what can I say that doesn't sound like I'm taking sides? Telling one to give the other's toy back doesn't really teach them anything about conflict resolution. Generally, when I tell them to work it out with each other, I will hear them saying, "Do you have my toy? Because if you do, you'd better give it back to me, or next time you ask to borrow my headband, I'm not going to give it to you." Okay - there you go - the beginnings of negotiations. THAT is a useful skill in life, and it keeps me the heck out of every little tiff they have with each other.

That being said, there are times when my older daughter can be a real meanie. If I hear her being outright mean, I'll separate them for a time and speak with her about my expectations. (And absence makes the heart grow fonder, right? ;) It's not that my younger daughter can't handle it (she has learned to give as good as she gets), but if I can keep it from escalating, the house stays calmer. :) The other trick I've learned is to send them outside to ride bikes, play in the pool, etc. Physical activity helps!

Good luck. You're not alone!

I had some friends once who had six kids ranging in age from 3 to 13. After summer upon summer of fighting and boredom, her husband instituted what they called "the list."

They got together one evening after the kids had gone to bed a made a list of things for them to do each day.

Reading
Music practice (they each played an instrument)
Cleaning Room
TV time
Computer Time

And so on. It didn't matter what order they did them in, but they had to go through the list every day. It did a couple of things. It gave them something to do. It kept their skills up during summer instead of the fall behind that a lot of students suffer over summer break. It limited tv time and computer time during the day. It kept them separated for part of the time and together for part of the time but doing an activity and not just left to their own devices.

There's a old saying that idle hands are the devil's workshop, and during the summer it's true.

Try coming up with a list of activities that they must do each day.

Forgive me if this has already been suggested, but...

What I love to do in the summertime is to go visit lots of different parks/playgrounds in our area. We rarely go to the same one more than a few times. I looked at the websites of the surrounding village's park districts, printed out maps & descriptions of them all, and then each day (weather-permitting) the kids and I chose a park to try out.

I have 3 boys, ages 5, 3 & 1, so I know it is not easy to get out of the house, but it sure does beat refereeing fights all day long. 1-2 hours outside each day does WONDERS for them, and for me :)

Try to give them as much structure to their day as you can--art projects, music & movement, let them help with making lunch and dinner, scheduled down time (sounds like an oxymoron, but it is really just free play), etc. After dinner we often take a walk around the neighborhood--so much better to get their last stores of energy exhausted so bedtime goes well.

Good luck! My son only has 8 more days of pre-K before summer vacation, and I am also guilty of a bit of dread :)

I am going to tell you something that hopefully will help you understand.
My sister & I were 5 years apart.
We fought all the time.
I tribute it to us having such a disparity in ages.
My mom & dad were strict.
We were punished for our outbursts.
They did every kind of teaching under the sun.
What worked? Nothing but time.
We didn't get along until she was no longer a child.
I was 16 wanting to go out & drive w/my friends, she was 11 wanting to come along. Oh no!
They taught us well, did the best they could to get us to get along, taking things away from us, sending us to our rooms, making us apologize, giving us the we're siblings speech etc.
We got along so much better once she was about 16. We were best friends when she was 18. We used to go out dancing together as she got older, went on trips together, had a mututal best friend. It was awesome!
Just parent the best you can and WAIT. It'll happen......later.
Also, it doesn't help they are brother & sister.
My SD does not get along w/her little brother much at all. 10yrs+ age difference. My only hope is she will get along so much better when she had grown up & matured because my son sure does love her w/all his heart. I have hope!!!!
Hang in there.
Encourage the togetherness while at the same time letting them be on their own w/their own friends!

My 8 and 5 year old daughter and son are best friends however they are exactly as you describe your two to be as well. I often have them separate from one another when things get too heated between them. I also allow each of them to have plenty of one on one time with each daddy and myself daily. When irritations and drama run high and I mediate it's often a simple misunderstanding between the two of them instead of something drastic.

I often have my daughter, 8, be the role model of the two because she has the ability to understand right from wrong most of the time. She takes pride in being able to demonstrate to her brother how things should be done. Sometimes she can get bossy but it's a learning experience and a work in progress.
*Note, my 5 year old is nonverbal and autistic so while intellectually he is smart his social skills lack.

Sigh. The sibling stuff is hard. So many reasons for them to bicker, gender, age and personality differences all play into it.
My best advice is to make sure they each have friends over to play with, as often as you can. I know it may seem as if having more kids around means more work but really when they each have a playmate of their own to spend time with they are less likely to get in each others' face.

I would try having them play separately as in playing in different rooms. They can have some "shared" play for a while, but for the most part, have them play separately with different toys. Tell them this is what you're going to play with for 30 minutes. At the end of that time, if you want to trade, fine, but until I say it's time, this is what you are playing with and this is what you are playing with and you are not to touch each other's toy nor are you to even speak to each other.

Separation makes the heart grow fonder!

I'm going through the same thing with my boys, and they're 18mos apart. The older brother definitely picks on his younger brother and is more mean to him. I read through all your responses for insight for myself, and it's interesting that it's a mix of separate them vs. leave them alone to sort it out. My tendency lately has been to separate them because it just drives me too crazy. I have found that as they play apart, they start gravitating back to one another. When they fight over a toy, I set a timer and when the timer goes off they have to switch. We still do time outs, and if I don't see who started the problem or if they don't tell the truth (each says the other "did it"), then they both get in trouble. If time outs aren't working, I take away toys or treats. I'd like to let them work it out, but it always leads to pushing, hitting, head-butting, etc. I might try a bead or other token for good behavior with a big prize when the container is full. Good luck!

LOL, welcome to my world. Reading your post made me feel better. It happens exactly like that in my home, especially the part about turning your back and not knowing who did it. What I found out though is that it is NOT always the older one. I've also learned that the older one is protective and trying to "teach" or "instill" what they know and the younger one is trying to maintain territory, exercise independence, and resist being pushed around. First thing is to know each child and what they would likely be capable of doing. Second, is to not let the younger one get away with stuff that you know clearly he could have done. It will help the older one feel like you still are being fair to her. Try to not discipline them "together". Sometimes just listen to them individually and do nothing. Usually it resolves itself, but they both want to be heard.

Distract the younger one with his own toys and talk to the older one and let her do her own thing. The discipline should be "If you both cannot play together, then you play apart"

To an extent it's normal and never going to end.....
However, I notice mine (boy 9 and girl 7) fight and argue more after a rough day and they need 'space' so I separate them. Also if I have not been spending enough quality time with them, either together or separetly.

Sometimes it helps to get them out of each other's hair. If your 6 yr old has friends where you trust the parents, drop her off for a few hours and do something with the 3 yr old. Or take them to a park where they can run around, maybe meet up with friends, and not be on top of each other. Or have a play date where you have one 3 yr old (maybe with a parent in tow) and one 6 yr old and they can go forth with their own friend and not feel so left out. Friend's son is 5 and my DD is 3.5. When the 5 yr old is not doing well with my DD, I send them outside to play. A lot of times, just running off steam helps. Now, I only babysit the 5 yr old once a week, but it might help you, too. Or I let one watch a TV show and the other paints or whatever in another room.

I must be the luckiest mom in the world, but my 4 kids don't fight. People have asked me how they get along (and believe me, they ALL have different personalities). My usual answer is my husband and I give our children lots of attention, therefore, our kids do not scream, yell, argue, fight, etc to GET attention. Most children misbehave to get attention. My rule of thumb is to give 15 minutes of time every hour (or two, time flies) playing a game, reading a book, watching them play Temple Run.........whatever, they are interested in and then I get rewarded with well behaved kids!

Logical consequences would mean to divide them up. So, since they can't play together well you FORBID them from being in the same room together for 2 weeks. Divide up the toys if you need to. But for 2 weeks neither of them is allowed to be where the other is. As much as possible do not let them near eachother. This may mean separate seating at meal times even. After 2 weeks they will realize how much they need eachother for fun and will behave. If not you divide them for longer. During the dividing time you make sure that they understand that no, you can't do x, y or z because you can not trust the two of them to play well together. Sorry. Say that part over and over and plan nothing fun those weeks. Well make "plans" for those weeks, but oh, gee, those can't be done now that you two decided to fight and bicker.

I agree with keeping them separate and giving them each quality time. But in order to encourage nice and courteous behavior, we have used a bead jar. Whenever one of the kids does something nice for the other one (sharing a toy, letting the other go first, sharing a snack, etc) we put a bead in the jar. When the jar is full, we get to go do something special all together as a family. I let the kids decide what that will be and we all get to go have fun together. It sounds simplistic, but it really works. To get them excited about it, make sure you make a big deal about very small actions, especially in the beginning. But you will be amazed at how before long they are doing these things on their own and forgetting about the beads. Good luck!

Get on the floor and play with them, and model for them how to share and how to be nice to each other. She is six and should know better, but that does not mean that she does. And your three year old is learning by example, he watches how you interact with her and with him. Your tone of voice and non-verbal communication are teaching them both more than you know about how to interact with others. So keep that in mind when you are with them, you and your husband are their most important teachers and they listen and watch everything that you do and say.
Good luck! ;-)