Over Inflated Moral Compass

Gross! Our kids would only go there when my husband and/or I can be there. Absolutely no more sleepovers. I would explain to the kids that although we love their uncle, we don't think behaving like that is appropriate and we WILL leave the moment it starts. I am sorry but if your son idolizes him, he will begin to behave the same way. If your brother mocks you or your morals in front of your son, your son will begin to do the same.

You do NOT have an over-inflated moral compass. You are trying to raise a responsible member of society who can behave in an appropriate manner for future success in life. That involves being a positive role model, as children will model what they see. Plus, it isn't fair to model behavior for kids that will get them in trouble at school or with their friends' parents. They don't really understand why that isn't ok to do when joking around with their friends, when adults taught them to do it. What your son is learning from his Uncle is a huge disservice to him.

How is your brother's under-developed moral compass working for your brother It doesn't sound like he's doing all that well. A grown man who drinks too much and has taken his kids and himself home to live with mommy and daddy is probably not the right person to be doling out parenting advise to you about raising your son for future success in life. Has he ever considered that his over-indulgence in alcohol and juvenile humor may have landed him in his current state?

Do you talk to your son about how his uncle's behavior is inappropriate? He's old enough that you don't have to sugar-coat it too much. You can tell him that you love your brother, but you do NOT like or approve of his behavior. You can also tell him that you wouldn't allow any other adult to act that way around him and have only put up with it because you want him to see his cousins and grandfather. However, the things his uncle does are wrong to do, and you will punish him if he does them. He also needs to know that if he did these things at his friends' houses or at school, it could get him in a lot of trouble.

Also, I would not allow overnight visits, any visits that I could not monitor or when heavy drinking is taking place. Your brother and mohe drinking heavily endangers the kids in their care. Telling a pre-teen or teen the joys of over-indulging in alcohol is certainly not acceptable. It's only a brief matter of time unil your brother thinks it is a cool right of teenage passage to get your son drunk. For that matter, maybe he already gives him alcohol when you are not around.

In short, if you would not accept these behaviors around your son if it were occuring with any caregiver or from a friend's parents where he visitied, you shouldn't accept it from your brother. His kids can visit your house and can act appropriately (for pre-teens) while there, and you can have your son visit your dad for short periods of time in your presence. For your brother's benefit, it's not called an "over-inflated moral compass," it's called "being an adult" and "being a parent."

Honestly, I wouldn't be letting him go over any more. I don't have a problem with crude jokes, or even drinking alcohol around kids... as long as it's done RESPONSIBLY and in MODERATION.

The jokes... Yeah, kids think they are hilarious. Once in a while, I don't care too much... but when it gets to the point that ALL my kid sees is the dirty side of humor, then I would draw the line...

As far as the drinking goes... Like I said, I don't have a problem with responsible drinking around minors.... BUT drinking heavily, and constantly, and acting like teenagers about it is NOT responsible. It's setting a horrible example for a kid who is far to close to being a teenager.

I would not let him go there any more unsupervised. I would be there, WITH him, and let him know that what he sees going on around him is NOT how responsible adults behave. If it got to be too much, I would remove him from the situation.

Maybe they NEED to be punished! When my DD does something that I feel is unacceptable, then she goes into time out from playing. So you can put your family into time out from your son, until they learn to act right around him. IF they want to see him, they can come to your house, where they have to follow your rules. End of story.

As far as time with your dad.... Maybe they can start a hobby that they can do in a separate part of the house... If he is physically able, maybe you can take them out to the park or something, away from the rest of the family (or even bring everyone, where common decency stops them from their behavior...)

I say invite the cousins over to your house so the kids can still have time together away from the Uncle (your brother) and then you just always be there for the visits to see Grandpa?

I get boys will be boys and to some extent the mooning behavior (amongst themselves) is to be expected but to be blunt and I am sorry if this hurts your feelings but your brother sounds like a pervert and I wouldn't like that kind of behavior around my boys and I am very lax normally!

When you visit, you're there to visit your Dad, not hang out with your brother and his kids.
No spending over night or weekends or being there without you.
You are the parent - you decide what's good for your son and your brother isn't.
It's not up to your brother to teach your son anything.
And frankly, an adult flashing his behind and crotch around kids at the very least is an exhibitionist and at the worst is a pedophile.
I'm sure perverts have all kinds of speeches about bubbles and morals and teaching kids about what comes naturally.
It's called grooming - to make it all sound nice and normal.
Find other things for your son to do so he can socialize with other kids.
He'll have time for an hour or two visit with you and your Dad, but the rest of the time he should be too busy to have any time left over for your brother and his kids.

Okay... There's a BIG difference between kids goofing and pushing the boundaries of acceptable behavior, and adults sanctioning / setting the example of what acceptable behavior is!

Yes. Mooning happens. (sigh)
Yes. Apparently it'd uproariously funny.

Does not mean ROLE MODELS should be acting like 12yos

Once in a blue moon, sure. As normal behavior? Hail no.

In-appro-priate.

At 12, your son is old enough for frank, open discussion about alcohol and alcoholism.
And what you think about his uncles sense of humor.
And, in fact, what you expect from HIM in spite of Wacky Uncle Monty.
It's important that your son sees your dad but not so much that the uncle is in charge in any way for extended times.
With your dad so sick, sleepovers are t appropriate anyway, so this might be the perfect time to stop or reduce those.

What a tough situation. I have relatives like this, too. Not fun.

You do not have an over-inflated moral compass. It sounds like he doesn't have a compass at all.

Limit your son's interactions with the uncle and cousins. Visit grandpa and grandma while you are there, and then leave. No more sleep overs. Nothing has to be said to stir the pot. Your son just has other things going on, getting ready for school to start, etc.

Will things get better once school starts? Do the cousins go to school yet? Most of them? Maybe take your son out of school for a half day here and there for a special visit with grandpa?

I wish you the very best. Your dad's illness is bad enough, and then to throw in your brother's ridiculous behavior is a whole new layer of SUCK.

You need to speak with and remind your son, this behavior is not acceptible, and what the consequences will be. Explain that even when you are not around, he is to follow your expectations.

Let him know that if he is too emberassed, to behave the way you expect him to, you are going to have to limit his time over there.

When your nephews are at your home, remind them of your rules for their behaviors at your home.

Yes, they will probably grumble and complain about your house rules, but tough. You are only expecting proper behaviors at your home, instead of the zoo they live at with their father.

At 12 does that mean he will be in middle school in the fall? This type of behavior is not tolerated in ms. He needs to get a grip before he ends up as "one of those kids" that is always acting goofy and immature.. Remind him 8th graders will be watching and when he goes to high school, they will be juniors and will remember him as immature.

I am sorry about your father. This is such a stressful time for you, explain to your son, what it is you are feeling, and what you need from him to help you get through this. At this age he will understand. Use his own a father as an example. " if dad were as I'll as grandfather, and all of this silliness and inappropriate behaviors were happening around him, how would that make you feel?"

Empathy is a sign of maturity. Help him mature during this difficult time.

Continue to teach your values and instill a moral compass in your child. He will come into contact in life with people whose values differ from his, having strong values taught at home will help him make better decisions later.

I am like you - certain actions are unacceptable. I have been accused of raising my teen in a bubble. Mostly his father accuses me of that. But, when my 16 year old is at his fathers and is offered alcohol, etc. He turns it down. Why? Because of the values that I taught him. (and because he is a good kid)

You can't change your brother. But you can insist that your son model appropriate behavior in your home, and expect him to model that behavior elsewhere.

He is 12, your his mom. Your not wrecking it for your son to stay over. Your brother is. Speak up Mom!

Wow, this is tough...I am sorry for your dad's illness and what you are going through. I guess while your dad is still alive, I would not limit their time together, for his sake. But I would make it abundantly clear to your son that such behavior on their part is unacceptable and won't be tolerated at home - discipline him for it if necessary. Once your dad passes, I would just stop hanging around them, or like someone else said, have the cousins come to your house to visit where you can control the situation a little more. Or get together in public. I mean, you wouldn't tolerate this if these were friends of your son and their parents, so why put up with it or be okay with it just because they happen to be related? You cannot control the actions of your brother or your parents, you cannot control their attitudes, but you can control how much time you spend with them and you can let your son know that you will not allow such behavior in your home. Maybe over time, if your son sees his cousins getting into trouble at school and having drinking problems, he'll finally realize what you are talking about. My stepsons idolized their uncle too (mom's brother) when they were that age - but not any longer because they now see what an idiot he really is.

I haven't read any other replies, so this has probably already been mentioned, but it really sounds to me that your brother has some MAJOR issues! Walking into a room with his butt out, talking sex with kids, and drawing attention to his genitals is a HUGE RED FLAG = MOLESTOR BEHAVIOR.

Is your father bed-ridden or a shut in, or can he come to visit you in your home?

EVERYTHING Anita B. said, just below. I say that too.

When all the cousins started gettign older and the personalities and characters started to really come out, my parents saw that a certain group was going in a direction that my brother and I shouldn't. We were no longer allowed to spend the summers with them. Period. We spent time with them in the presence of certain trusted adults. Period. We didn't understand it at the time, but we rolled with it. People don't know this, but there is no actual law that states that first cousins must all be raised together with the same set of rules and see each other all the time. So what if you are "keeping the kids apart"? They know each other, right? They can spend SOME time together, right? So what if the crazy adults think that you are punishing the kids by limiting their time with the ones who are being raised by wolves? I say that that you are doing your job. What do the parents (YOU) say?

sounds like your brother might have an "attraction problem" with children. a normal grown man doesnt go around showing his crotch to children, or discussing sexual things, potions, lotions or his favorite positions with a child and he doesnt moon kids either.
K. h.

"If I stop letting my son go over to spend the weekends or overnight in the summer then I'm punishing the kids by keeping them apart."

I hope you can see that you need to keep them apart, period, even if you feel you're "punishing the kids." No more sleepovers (or day-long visits) at all -- you have zero idea what is going on all night long: What are he and the kids talking about? What might he be telling them or demonstrating (i.e., drinking, even other drug use you don't know about?)? What videos might they be watching, or what web sites might they be visiting, on these overnights when you are not around? Please do not give this man any more time like this with your child. I know you don't want to "punish the kids" but you have to be the adult here (even if you are accused of being a mean mama, of being overprotective, of keeping your son in a bubble--you MUST toughen up and ignore all that and you WILL hear it, even from your parents, possibly).

You make no mention of the cousins. How old are they? Surely they are aping their dad's behavior. Your son's own behavior may come from copying not just his uncle but also his cousins, who are learning how to behave from their dad. Yes, it's not their fault dad's like this, but you cannot be concerned with them right now. You need to get your son away from them as well as from their dad, unless they're angelic compared to their dad.

You say you "want to be able" to visit your father. Are you concerned that if you start to turn down all sleepovers or don't let your child see uncle and cousins except with you there (and even then it should be limited!) then somehow your brother will prevent you from seeing your father? If that is the case, you have an even bigger problem -- that would indicate your brother is possibly manipulating and controlling your parents against you.

Your son is at a very difficult and highly impressionable age. What he picks up now will be much more difficult for you to talk or teach him out of; he is no longer a young child who will amend his ways to please mommy and daddy. If something attracts him or is funny, he's going to do it. I'd remove the attractive, funny temptation and start just seeing your dad and leaving. Can your dad leave the house and come to you at all or does his cancer mean he is house-bound? I would find ways to focus your son on his grandad in these visits (can granddad and grandson play a game together, etc.) and then leave promptly.

When you are at your parents' house, don't let your son go off with the cousins or uncle into another room. Make sure you or your husband are IN the room where your son is. And do be sure YOU are getting visits alone with your dad, where you do not bring your son -- because you are a daughter here as well as a mother, and you need some time with your father right now.

You know your son best. How would he respond to a serious talk along the lines of: "Granddad's days are few and you need to know and understand that. Once he has passed away you won't have the chance to see him any more. I'd like you to consider focusing on spending time just with him, one on one, in the coming weeks/months." If he is close to granddad he may find this a spur to doing just that and you can at the same time limit his time with the other family.

Meanwhile, be sure your son has other activities that really interest him and to which he feels committed. Does he have an activity, a sport, a church youth group if that's your thing, any outside thing he attends and where he has peers who are better influences than his cousins? Focus him more on that. Or find him a new activity (with his input -- he is too old for you to pick these things for him entirely). Make him too busy to visit, frankly, other than visits focused on granddad.

I would be concerned that your brother, living with your parents and already having mom on his side, is setting himself up for taking their house or otherwise running the show entirely once your father has passed away. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh or is hard to hear but it's something to think about now, before the time comes and you find mom has put everything into brother's name. I am not thinking here about inheritance at all, but about whether your brother is controlling your mom and will do so even more once your dad is gone.

Your brother sounds like a loser, raising mannerless thugs. He behaves the way he does because your parents allow it. He won't stop until your parents put a stop to it. You saying something won't make a difference because it's not your home.

If you can get them to visit in YOUR home then you can enforce manners. Or you can invite your parents into your home and not your brother for visits. I would avoid exposing your son to your brother as much as possible, and talk to your son about appropriate behavior and what's acceptable. He's old enough to have a serious talk about your brother.

Sure your son is going to pick up on your brother's bad manners. It sounds like he already has. Under no circumstances would I allow my child alone in any house where such things are going on. The only reason I would be caught in such a house is to visit my ill parent. It's worth making a fuss over.

Your son is most important. I would just stop taking him over there. If he wants to.play with his cousins pick them up and bring them to your house. Aside from the obvious bad behavior of your brother, its not healthy for your son to be around people with a drinking problem. I feel.for you, my kids no longer have any contact with my mother or brother for similar reasons. No matter how bar my brothers behavior was, he was perfect and I was a super b*t**, you are not asking for anything unreasonable. Stand your ground. If your mother wont do anything about his behavior, then I guess shes not going to see her grandson, maybe that will make.her change her attitude, but probably not. Go over by yourself if you need to visit your dad.

I totally get that you do not want to punish your son by not getting to go over there but you just have to. This is totally out of control and you ARE punishing your kid by exposing him to the thought and example that this behavior is not only ok but totally acceptable. I say you just stop by once a week to see them under your supervision. When you go to leave, you talk candidly to your child about each instance that happened while you were there that was inappropriate and what YOU expect from him and his behavior. You just need to think about it from the other direction. YOU are responsible for an entire human being and who he grows up to become and you cannot let others take that responsibility over, not even your family.

If it makes you feel any better, we had an almost exact situation with my brother and his wife, now my brother actually lives with my parents and my mother is ailing and in denial. We limit our time around them significantly even though it is hard and my mother is one of my most precious friends.

Good luck!

That's not an over inflated moral compass. It's not normal that I've ever seen, for people to wander around naked. As for your mother, it's her house, she has every right to put her foot down and have some control of seeing her own son nude. At a minimum, you should be able to tell him that when you or any of your family are there, you would appreciate if he would keep covered. Otherwise, I'm thinking, is this a child services type situation? That's just not right. There are ways to learn things without adults showing themselves to young kids. Seems absolutely wrong in every way and who knows what he will do if he will walk around nude with them. I wouldn't dare let my kids stay over night with the man... or his children either if they act the same. I'm thinking the man needs to be reported. It's one thing to be in a bathroom without a stall and door in a men's room. Another to wander a home on purpose. Plus he does it with the girls too. The man needs help. The kids should not be around him. None of them. I don't care if they are his own kids either....it's not appropriate for him or them to have to see.

Could you visit at a time when your brother is not around? It sounds like the behavior will not change, esp b/c your mother sides with him. I'm so sorry to hear you're in this situation. Best of luck!