Older Child Having Problems Sleeping

You have received lots of excellent advice.

My advice is to note anxiety or depression; when and for how long. Try listing all of her symptoms daily. Note routines or lack of them. Note fatigue or periods of hyperactivity. Note mood swings or lack of them. Note dietary routines, foods eaten, life stresses. This will take some effort but will slowly paint a picture that can be presented to your doctor.

Sleep disorders can produce secondary emotional and psychological secondary problems.

Your doctor either is not aware of the severity of the sleep problems or he is dismissing your concern; probably out of ignorance.

If you have a diary of sorts, you are armed with knowledge to share with a professional. If your daughter cannot wind down, cannot get into a sleep state that is normal, you will need to consult a knowledgeable professional.

First you will need a "label" and diagnosis. Then you can choose among professionals for help. For example, a GP, a sleep professional a naturopath, a nutritionist, etc.

If your daughter is very distressed by her inability to sleep, you might consider this a "crisis" of sorts and immediately consult another physician if your GP continues to ignore you.

Meanwhile, if she is not taking a good vitamin/mineral supplement, start that as soon as possible. Eliminate sugar from her diet and white flour products. Have her exercise for at least half an hour everyday, outside.

I am wondering if your daughter has a concurrent weight problem?

Good luck.
Chris RN

Do you have trouble sleeping too? The women in our family all have trouble sleeping trough the night. It is very difficult for all of us. I remember the first time it happened to me and the first time it happened to my daughter. UGH!

My dad all so had it. He suggested to me a glass of orange juice because it upped the sugar in the blood stream, like in diabetes. I was so very thin. And that worked for me until I got heavier.

All of us have had to adopt a certain attitude. And when we are stressed out majorly it is impossible to sleep at all.

Acceptance is all we can do. I personally, always go to bed at the same time, eat dinner at the same time, and get up at the same time. That helps a lot!

There probably will be a lot of ideas, but I think you should look at acceptance and routine, especially as she gets into high school, and the stress of being a teenager.

Good luck to both of you.

Hi S. and others,

Saw a couple of posts for this and thought I would pass on some info. This is from a Doctor source, not just my own opinion:

Taken occasionally, Melatonin can help with insomnia or jet lag. But regular use can throw your 'internal clock' seriously out of whack. Remember, this is a hormone and should be taken with great care.

I personally lean toward the Naturopathic Dr's (when you can find a really good one) after getting little to no results from my regular Dr. Hope this helps in some way. Happy New Year to all.

D

I agree...I wouldn't be worried per say, but I would get it checked out. Very soon the demands of hormones and amazing growth will be upon your daughter, and you are right..she will NEED her sleep. Once checked out by a Doc, try a naturpath before sleep drugs..there are sooo many natural things that work well for sleep. Valerian, Skullcap, etc.
Something else that is totally safe for everyone..including dogs, cats, babies.. is Bach Flower Rescue Remedy. It has a calming effect that really helps, but doesn't knock you out. I have used it for years. It helped me sleep when I was in some heavy counseling.
I was really suprised her Doc wasn't concerned about her not sleeping at that age...
Good luck
Tam

Hello S.:

there are many natural things to do with her instead of medication. I suffer from RLS(restless leg syndrome) and I take a natural product called Zincum Metallicum, which works wonders. I also have a hard time sleeping and always have so I take a warm bath before bed(not too hot as the body will work overtime to get cooled down) with lavendar and camomile and I also take Melatonin at around 7pm giving my body time to absorb it and by 9pm I am feeling tired without falling out. I sleep well thru the night but not oversleep, so that my body goes through all the stages of sleep that are needed. In the morning I am well rested and do not have a problem getting out of bed. If you are going to try this routine, please try to remember that you want to try to keep the bedtime and waketime close to the same even on the weekend, which can be hard for a teen. You may also want to see a sleep specialist and/or a naturpathic doctor. I dont recommend prescriptions, especially for a teen. Good luck to you and your daughter.

Hi S.,

My son, who is now 15, has had the exact same problems. Our doctor has said to try Melatonin, which is a natural sleep aid and works with your brain to get it to the right levels for sleep. Also, although for adults keeping a regular waking/sleeping patterns on the weekend is recommended, it is not for teenagers. Their natural body rhythms and hormones change to want them to be awake later into the night, and sleep later in the day- current research has shown this. Our doctor has recommended letting the kids sleep until whatever time they want on the weekends, just to help them recharge from their crazy schedules during the week, what with school starting so early, and sports. My son has also been doing better when he plays a sport everyday, so it was football in the fall, and he is currently swimming now. Getting enough exercise is also key to a good sleep. I know I sleep better when I swim at least every other day!

Good luck, and try looking into the research about teenagers and brain development- it is very interesting, so much so that Congress (I think) has decided that kids should no longer be tried as adults, because the brain does not finish fully developing until males are about 25 years and females are about 24 years!
C.

S. - I would ask for a reference from your daughter's pediatrician.
Could she have sleep apnea? That could be waking her up.
I would be very concerned if my daughter was waking all hours, that means she is not getting her REM sleep. I remember at 13 being able to sleep forever (or at least until my baby brothers woke me up).
Maybe try a white noise box. Some static or some kind of noise. I sleep with my bathroom fan on. It helps to block out my husbands OUTRAGEOUS snoring and creaks and cracks when the house settles.
I would be an emotional wreck if I was not getting straight sleep every night, I would really take her to a specialist.
Good Luck! L.

Lots of great suggestions from other moms here! I'll tell you my story, as sleep has been an issue for me since pre-puberty...

Insomnia runs in my family (my father's side). I have had sleep issues since I was about 8 or 9. I would wake up at 3 in the morning and go to the kitchen where I knew my dad would be awake and talk to him about it!! He would help me calm down and give me ginger ale and milk mixed together sometimes (placebo anyone!) and tell me it would help my body calm down. He then just sent me back to bed. It made me feel better, but now in hindsight I feel bad that he wasn't sleeping!!

By the time I hit puberty, it was really bad. I'd come downstairs and almost be in a panic. I think in my mind a lot of it was my "social" life, but I'd bet now it was also a lot of sleep deprivation making me wacky. My dad helped me figure out ways to stay in bed, calm down, and go back to sleep. One was keeping a dream journal (i've always had majorly vivid dreams), another was doing a puzzle in bed (like word search or crossword), putting on public radio (no overstimulating commercials), etc. He also banned TV past dinner for me, but it was hard because my brothers watched it then!

I was able to manage until my 20s. But moving out West and getting my "adult" job, brought the sleeplessness on again! As an adult, I was prescribed pills, which I hated. I went to a naturopath when my daughter was born and she started telling me about melatonin and valerian, BUT she also informed me about my nutrition, vitamin and mineral needs. In addition to helping me create a nutritional plan; She gave me liquid calcium/magnesium and told me to take it at night, right before bed. It helped. I slept through the night, and I felt that with the right vitamins (pharmaceutical grade) and minerals, I was feeling my body "regulate" itself.

I wish I would have seen someone about it sooner that wouldn't have just written a scrip (my gyn was the one who wrote the Rx for sleep pills); the naturopath was wonderful! She took the time to talk to me for about 40 minutes or so to get to hear all of my sleep issues, and other health info, before she started deciding a path to take. I highly recommend seeing someone who will stop, listen carefully to everything your daughter has to say, and take a holistic/natural approach. Having good nutrition and taking supplements is much easier and less-expensive for me, than popping a pill!

Good luck! I know how hard it can be.

Hi S.,

I don't have a solution for you, just some ideas.

Is it a problem for your daughter? I'm assuming it is, but you didn't specifically mention how this is adversely affecting her. Are her grades poor? Does she nod off in class? Does she look exhausted or get sick all the time? If not, it's possible she just needs less sleep than the average person.

If this is affecting her adversely, I would recommend you find a sleep disorder specialist (perhaps you already have? I wasn't sure who the 'doctors' were in your post) and have her examined.

My SIL suffers from Restless Leg Syndrome. Her legs will tingle and twitch and cause her to wake up repeatedly. It wasn't too bad when she was young (in her teens and early twenties), although she woke up a lot like your daughter.

After the birth of her first child, her RLS became so bad, she now has to use medication just to sleep. You could ask your daughter if she has ever felt any tingling in her legs or the urge to move her legs right before she falls asleep or when she suddenly wakes up.

Best of luck.

You said the doctors aren't worried but you didn't say if she had seen a gynecologist. They could do some blood work to determine if this is a hormone thing. If not, they do have sleep clinics. YOu are most correct. She does need her sleep. I am glad you are concerned. I am a retired Operating room nurse who worked with the gyn team.

Teenagers have a lot going on, whether they're aware of it or not. Physical changes brought on by active hormones causes all sorts of rumblings. She's probably doing alot of thinking about a multitude of things, one of which is your return to work. Don't feel guilty, it's life and she's learning to cope with things. You're providing her with some great stress reducers to go wind down with before bed. Lots of physical activity will help the body spend all that pent up energy so she can really fall sound asleep. We forget about the periods of time when our infants/toddlers would have these irratic sleep patterns, babies that had been sleeping through the night, now woke up every two hours or so, crying for no reason... those episodes are no different than what your daughter is experiencing now. As we age, we'll have those periods of restless sleep again, more often than not brought on by our kids being away from home for whatever the reason. :-)

I am studying Chinese Medicine, and last term I observed with a Doctor who was a pediatrician in China, and also specialises in sleep disorders. He sees patients at our school (NCNM)'s teaching clinics on NW Pettygrove, just south of 23rd. Since most of the patients were quite young, he didn't do acupuncture but massage and acupressure. The great thing about this is that he would teach the mothers how to do it on the child at home. Your daughter is old enough to learn some accupressure to do on herself. He gave nutrition advice and usually prescribed herbs. Becuase it is a teaching clinic and there are students observing, it is less expensive. Don't quote me on this but I think it is $65 initial and $55 follow up and they take all major insurance if it covers acupuncture.
I know that he would think that it very important your daughter gets a good night's sleep. His name is Dr Zhang, clinic phone # is ###-###-#### or www.ncnm.edu

I would cut out any pop that she's drinking-especially any that has caffeine. No naps to make up the sleep! It just makes it worse. Check and see when your heat kicks on in the morning. My baby always wakes up at 5 because that is when our heater comes on. I tend to be the same way. Also, if you need to go to the bathroom in the night that will wake you up enough to keep you up, so tell her not to go if she doesn't absolutely have to. I wake up more during certain times in my cycle. See if you can track it.
Good Luck
Your fellow insomniac

I understand that this is a real and reasonable concern for you and your daughter, and I'm glad you're looking into it. Most people do need about eight hours of sleep a night to function well and maintain long term health. As other mamas have pointed out, there are a variety of things you can try.

And some of us just sleep less right from the start.

There are 3 main factors that make insomnia a problem:

One is that insomnia can be signalling some health or comfort issue. I've had more help in this regard from naturopaths and other alternative healers than from my busy MDs. I've experimented with the amount or kinds of foods consumed during the day, ingredients that have triggered sensitivities, exercise, room temperature, pillows, etc. Airborne chemicals (as from air fresheners and fabric softeners) have been a huge contributing problem for me.

Another is that the rest of the world is blissfully dreaming while we lay there in the dark, "trying" to sleep. It's lonely/boring/worrisome unless and until the non-sleeper adapts emotionally. We have a lot of control over our attitudes, and many hours in the dark to experiment with what works best for each of us.

Finally, there is a fair amount of science supporting the idea that people need the same minimum amount of sleep. What a worry-inducer that can be! There's also quite a lot of real-world evidence that plenty of people survive and even thrive on less sleep. A fair amount of science also supports the idea that anxiety seriously affects our overall emotional and physical health. So I figure if I can't increase my sleep, at least I can decrease my anxiety.

I'm now in my 60's and have over the past 10 years made peace with the fact that I simply don't sleep as much as "average." I wish I had made this peace earlier, because when I'm not worried about it, I actually sleep somewhat more! And my nights are more pleasant now - I think of them as quiet time to myself, when I can meditate, reflect, remember, prioritize, pray….

I'm glad so many have responded - this is a big club! Insomnia is the "other" normal for many of us.

If she is not getting enough rest, talk to her doctor about it. I was not getting enough rest and the doctor had me do a sleep study to find out why. They found that I have restless leg syndrome, not sleep apnea. At least I then could deal with knowing and find something to do about it.

There are many reasons why she is not sleeping well, many of which have been mentioned. Talk to her about it and why she thinks she isn't sleeping well. Does she have any concerns about it? Make sure that her doctor knows how much this concerns you. If she is having problems sleeping now, it is not just going to go away without some help. Frequently, we have to train our bodies to sleep properly and it just gets harder down the road. Good luck and God bless you both.

Hi S.,
Please have your daughter checked for sleep apnea. I had to insist for two years with my daughter's pediatrician and to shut me up they had an oxymitry (sp) done at the house. This is where they put an oxygen reader on one of her fingers all night. Well, this led to abnormal oxygen levels so a complete sleep study had to be done (at the hospital) and they discovered she had sleep apnea. In kids, taking their tonsils and adenoids out usually solves the problem. She saw Dr. Marcus at Sacred Heart (sleep dr.) he is really good. Don't give up and if she doesn't have it then at least you know that is not the cause but it sure sounds like it is.

Try some cal-mag from this site ____@____.com It is a natural calming drink.

It seems to make sleep come easy and be more restful.

The other trick is to take a walk before bed time. A few times around the block looking at things helps. Maybe you an she could go for a walk just the two of you--give you a chance to chat about her day and what her dreams are.

use melatonin.

have her evaluated for sleep apnea?

If you are worried and your doctor is not, try another Doctor?

Honestly, In my opinion, if this has been going on for a while, I would seek a second opinion from a doctor. Sleep is way too important.

I would get her checked out by a psychiatrist. she may be going through some depression and anxiety issues that you don't notice and maybe she doesn't want to talk about. I've had sleep problems since I was her age and needed to be put on a mild antidepressant to help me fall asleep and balance out my moods. There may be some stress in her life that she doesn't really want to talk about with you, and maybe having someone else to talk to...it might make her sleeping issues less.

this is of course just a guess...since you say there is nothing medically wrong with her. Sometimes these are mental symptoms of stress and anxiety.

Ask her what she thinks about when awake...

Ask her what she thinks about when she wakes up in the middle of the night.

stuff like that...

Hope that helps a little. Counseling might be a good step.

There are oodles of suggestions out there for adults that work for tweens as well. A set routine seems to be the most prominent. I would suggest:
time with you w/o the younger ones; sometimes doing a routine chore together works well - no direct eye contact and hands busy makes a less confrontational and more friendly arena; doing dishes, sorting laundry, my mom and I used to have sewing machines that faced each other; it's not comfortable to admit you want/need mom when you are 13 but you definitely do!
a warm bath, maybe using lavender or chamomile bath soap
Melatonin is a natural sleep aid, just make sure it doesn't have Vitamin B in it!
Journal writing for 15-20 minutes - to write down the things that are "buzzing" through her brain. She can set a time the next day/morning to deal with them. Sometimes just knowing you won't forget to take care of the details helps. Keeping it by the bed so when she wakes she can write down what thought woke her up as well;
Reading for 15-20 minutes, unless she gets so into the book she won't put it down! (My problem)
You also might try a weekly family council time to deal with successes and concerns AND HAVE FUN as a family. It is hard to go back to work. As a mom it is hard to adjust to not being able to "do it all". The family may have a hard time adjusting to you not "doing it all." Your daughter needs to understand that she is NOT responsible for picking up all the slack, that it's okay for things to change.
Best of luck. You can do it and she will adjust.
~Been there, done that with five kids at home

Hi S. -
There are a lot of great suggestions already posted in terms of avenues to investigate with your daughter's doctor. I won't repeat them, but just wanted to add that another angle to consider is hormonal dysregulation. I'm not speaking of pubertal hormones (though often when one hormone is out of whack, then multiple are), but stress and sleep hormones - specifically cortisol and melatonin. These hormones work opposite to each other: cortisol should be high in the morning, and melatonin is highest during sleep. Often if there's a lot of stress or anxiety (and what one person perceives as stressful is not necessarily the same as for others), this messes up the circadian rhythms of cortisol, which in turn disrupts melatonin, and sleep becomes difficult or broken. Naturopathically speaking, these are pretty "easy" problems to address (which may or may not be the root cause for your daughter, so it may or may not be easy to treat her in particular). Also, if blood sugar drops too much during sleep, that can wake a person up in the night, in the body's attempt to get you to do something about it -- however, drinking juice at night (as someone mentioned) could potentially add to the problem, depending on the person's metabolism -- usually a snack containing quality protein and fat (raw nuts, for example), is more generally effective, if blood sugar is the issue. In addition, be cautious about offering drugs like Benadryl or chemical sleep aids over the long term. They can contribute to a body's toxicity in a way that can be counterproductive in the long run. I also want to clarify a statement someone made about taking melatonin: it's not intrinsically dangerous, but it is true that it's a hormone (among other things, for example it's also a powerful antioxidant) - which means that its power must be respected, and it must be dosed appropriately (like, not in the morning!). But these are topics that a good naturopathic physician can work with you on. I know of a really good doctor in Ashland - not sure if that's too far for you. If not, email me and I'll give you her name. If so, try www.naturopathic.org and see if you can find another in your area.

In health,
D.

We have this problem with our almost 5yr old. He has never been a sleeper though. I brought it up several times with his ped. and she recommended melatonin. It's a nonaddictive sleep aid that helps the body calm down enough for the child to fall asleep on their own and wake up when they need to without being groggy. I love it especially the fact that it is a safe solution to give a small child instead of medication that they don't need just to help them sleep, i.e. benadryl, tylenol, nyquil.
I saw that one poster said that they figured her sister was just wired different and have to agree that some people just seem to need less sleep than others. My 4 1/2yr old is one example.
Good Luck!
T.

My daughter, also 13, has similar problems. Her doctor told me to give her 50mg of Benedryl an hour before bedtime. I have used it from time to time to help her get to sleep.

I know this is a belated response, and I didn't read the other responses, but I wanted to let you know that my younger sister had trouble sleeping all through her tween/teen years. We tried everything for her that we knew of, but it was just the way she was wired, I think. She just learned to deal with it, and rested during the night even if she couldn't sleep, knowing that she would be more tired than most of her friends. Unfortunately it was a way of life for her - no depression, no hormonal or other health problems; just no sleep! She is 21 now, and is not having so much trouble any more, but she still isn't a 12 hour sleeper like most of her peers are when given the opportunity!

Do your best to give your child all the tools you can, and then she'll have to learn what is most helpful for her. Blessings,
js

Hi,

It is certainly worth considering what everyone has said about the "reasons" behind the lack of sleep, but I would definitely try the Benadryl 25 mg or 50 mg. It is an antihistemin (people take it for allergies and/or allergic reactions) and it is completely safe and non-addictive. It will give her some relief while you are figuring out the rest. Often times insomnia "feeds" itself. You can't sleep, therefore you stress because you haven't slept, which keeps you from sleeping. Breaking the cycle can really help.

Have you addressed it as a stress issue, with puberty, school pressures and all? Make sure you talk to a counselor about her and with her. It may be nerves or hypertension.