Need Advice on How to Handle Two Very Different Little Girls

wow... i am going to read the responses you get because i'm on a bad road towards something similar; 3 yr old bad all day, sucking up my whole life force, 15 month old perfect angel, i swing back and forth between brain-throttling aggravation and bliss.

i heard great things about the book "Siblings without rivalry" and bought it but haven't read it yet. maybe i should.... today.

good luck,
J.

I am wondering if there is an origin to these behaviors. How is her speech? Is she able to communicate her wants and needs?

C. Jarvis,
Speech-Language Pathologist

Okay, I have 5 little boys and I keep teasing that we need a 6th because my kids are 8-trouble, 7-sweet, 6-trouble, 4-sweet and 21months-major trouble!...so the next one would be easy and balance us out :-) First of all, childproof...I took the knobs off of our stove, put chains on doors(so she can't get out), put toys in things that can't be stacked, put larger toys/toysets outside or give them away...put away anything that you will be upset about if it gets broken and remember this is only temporary but the childs safety comes first and if that means she sleeps on a matress on the floor until she can understand the rules and make better judgement calls THAT"S OKAY! Second, CHANGE your thinking, your child is not being bad! She is exploring and comming up with creative ways to get to things...that's awesome! she thinks for herself and outside of the box and you don't want to stop that... you do want to teach boundaries and keep her safe...tell her why not to do things...not long and drawn out just no that's hot or you'll fall and go boom! I had to stop nursing my third son at 12weeks because his older brother who was 16months was on top of the kitchen counters everytime I sat down....I feel your pain and frustration but that child who climbed on everything is the best behaved of all my kids now...there is a light at the end of the tunnel and you may have to adapt your plan but you'll get there. On the older child feeling that she is good and the little one is bad...you need to praise her for her good choices and remind her that she is a role model and not the mommy...that you're little one is NOT bad she is learning the rules and we all have to help her...and you're child is disciplining her sister because she is copying you...again a reminder that you are mommy and that unless the baby is going to get hurt or hurt someone else don't tattle or tell her no...and give the baby words and the hitting will stop...emotions run high and the more words she has the less likely she will get frustrated and the hitting will stop. I tell you these things that I have learned and that I am dealing with right now with you...my little guy is 21months and very full of it(he actually did try to swing from the tiffany over the dining room table....I caught him). You're not alone and it does get easier.

Clearly, your girls have learned their roles in the family, even at their very young ages. Kids can be manipulative to get what they want, and what they want is your attention - good, bad, ugly. So your oldest is like my middle child, eager to please - she's getting the positive attention - it works for her, so she's putting pressure on herself to always be good. When she makes a mistake, she worries you won't love her - that is why she gets so upset. Praise is substituted for love, in her mind. The best thing to do for her is to encourage, but not praise. Notice her good behavior, but don't compare the girls, and don't overdo it. Your youngest, like my oldest, is taking the leftovers of your attention, even if that means negative attention. She's only 2, and much of her behavior is normal exploration, but she's figuring this out already and she'll take what she can get. All the sibling rivalry, all the misbehavior, all the stellar behavior - is all to get your attention and it will only get worse as the girls get older. Now the pressure is on you, right? I highly recommend a course entitled "STEP - Strategic Tips for Effective Parenting." It is offered all over - check on-line, at your daughters' school, or in community papers.

The other thing to remember is that kids are all different. Your youngest may have a more aggressive (assertive), domineering (leading), cocky (confident) personality. Encourage the positive traits she could evolve to have and try to find ways to channel them. There are also some good books about spirited children, challenging children - see how the same personality traits can be spun differently? Good luck!

Do you have a time out chair or rug? Use it. Your 2 year old sounds quite bright. Testing behavior. Allowing her to behave innapporopriately on a continueing basis (especially the violent acts) sets a dangerous precedent. Indeed yes why is your 4 year old in a position to discipine? Running interference as you do indicates that you feel the 2 year old has the power in the relationship.
1- Toddler proof your home
2-Short direct rules of what is unacceptable
3-Use that time out chair or rug consistently and in a matter of fact way

One thing we all do and not realize it is giving 'Negative reinforcement'. If children are naughty it is so easy to reprimand and try to talk through what they've done wrong with them and inevitably it will take just a few minutes before they win you over with a hug to say sorry and that's it, they've won. Be clear on what the punishment is going to be and respond the second that bad behaviour is demonstrated. It can't be delayed punishment at 22 months like "you're not having dessert tonight" or "no playdates with x tomorrow", it has to be a punishment then and there such as a time-out corner, being put in the crib or best of all immediate attention on the child who's been hit, who is being well behaved etc. Without the attention I guarantee your littlest will be working out a new strategy to win your affection back - it's all she cares about. At the moment she's getting lots of it, but for the wrong reason. In summary: Ignore the bad behaviour, remove her from danger at all times (an obvious thing to say), be clear on how you're going to punish and respond immediately. She will start learning that being a good girl will win her mummy and daddy and not the other way around.

There is a lot of great advice here. I have a 2 1/2 year old, who sounds like your little one. I couldn't believe how early the terrible twos started with him (18 months), but after about 6-8 crazy months the phase just ended.

If you can stop yelling, you'll all feel better. Does the yelling really work? It sure doesn't in my house! After a while my son started yelling right back at me. Now I try not to yell (there are those crazy occasions, though) and he has been much better, too.

B., you've gotten some wonderful advise and I won't be redundant as mine would probably be the same. One thing I can tell you is I have 21 month old twins and my house is basically on lock down. Ha Ha We have the table pushed up against a wall so my son can't climb up on it. The garbage is on the back porch, toilet locks, cabinet locks, we can't leave the doors open to see out the storm door even though it has a lock on it, you get the picture. My older son was an angel so this was quite a suprise. First make the house as hard to get into trouble as possible, then pick your battles. I enjoy my children much more now that I'm not constantly fighting with them.

Best of Luck!

B., my heart goes out to you! I have 4 kids, 3 are mine...1 is borrowed (step-daughter). My oldest is 10 yrs.
between the next child. My husband and I both had a child steping into our marriage.
We have gone thru different things. But I found positive action always helped visas negitive. What has your ped.Dr. think/say? My younger son...went thru similar things. My ped.dr. said some children seem to push the "Why factor".
Our socity is very condition. Every now, and then a child is
born with out this factor. Just needs to be re-conditioned.
That's how our doctor more or less put it.
No medicine. Just a diffent way of learning. Granted mine was a boy. Now, having that male ego gene. Wanted to do what the older kids where doing. Didn't want to be the "baby".
This kid was my "wild 2 yr. old". The older kids would laugh. Kind of hard not too. He just wasn't growing up fast enough for his liking! Needed to find something he was good at. Just him. We tried to take time out with just him. I breast fed...the two younger ones are 17 mos. apart. I would pull up a chair and he was allowed to be with me in the kitchen...washing/drying dishes ect. Would be after the older kids left for school, the baby down for a nap. He only wanted to look out the windows in the kitchen...see the kids go to school. Water was ususally all over! Got photos! Watering the lawn....washing dogs! I didn't say the house was always clean! Then at dinner we would announce what he did....help mom out...we did....PJ turned off the water hose today.
Made him feel just as important. Helped him show his older sibblings that he was growing up. This same kid, is now...5'2ft. will be 11 yrs. old soon. Wears a sz.7 men's shoes! Was it hard? At times. But now...he has a 98 average in 4th grade (he isn't even trying) His teachers rave that he has awlsome leader skills. Wasn't always that way. This same school wanted to label him a behavior problem.
He still slaps his sister...now and then. But I found hugs and kisses. Kids can say sorry...but you can't always teach them how sorry should feel. When he would hit...he was made to kiss your cheek and a hug. It helped them when they where younger to love each other and to respect being different.
It's really hard to be good all the time. We used..."Good Days...and Worst Days". Stickers put on the calendar ...for OK days, better days... so many stickers ...special treats.
When your older daughter becomes alittle drama queen....how she isn't bad like Leah. Be clear..calm. So, everyone hears you (both daughters ect..)..."No, your not Leah...and I love you just as much as Leah....good or bad".
She is having trouble telling rather you love her for her or because she is always good. It's a mix signal.
Everyone is gifted with some good and bad. Bad comes out more when we are misunderstood.( There is a difference from bad and just plain evil.)

Sounds like the girls are trying to figure out who they are as individuals as well as a group (sisters, so and so's kids).
You need to find how to reach them to do what you would like
at certain times. Trial and error...
Our oldest kids love wacky Wed. It was a day...you could be silly, wear odd socks...leave your bed unmade.
Basically was a day designed to allow them a timeout or break.
At home. But they where older.

Remember, this is a stage, it will pass and something else will take its place. Sometimes its better or worse. Just laugh,and love a lot...take lots of pictures. Because this
goes by so quickly!
J.

Sounds like you need to take a couple of steps back and take some preventitive measures like babyproofing your house better. Put the covers on the stove knobs and a lock on the toilet and whatever else she's getting into. As for the hitting, this is an age where a phase of hitting, pushing, spitting or biting can occur. The best thing to do is not give it too much attention--positive or negative. Time outs really work for this, but you have to be consistent. Tell her "No biting" and calmly but firmly put her in a spot that has no toys or stimuli (we've used a spot in the archway of our kitchen). Tell her she has to stay there for two minutes. You can use a chair there or make her stand. I felt standing has worked better, because they can make fun in the chair. Anyway, if she gets out of time out before you dismiss her, put her back and repeat, "time out for two minutes". When she's done tell her, "We don't bite" or whatever you like--keep it simple, because she's not even two. Then the most important part is to make her say she's sorry to you and whoever she's bitten.

It will take time and patience, but it will improve. Keep us posted.

Another book you might want to try is "Raising your Spirited Child" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka.

Personality-wise, sounds just like my girls.
One way to handle hitting is to give all the attention to the child who got hit and ignore the hitter. A litte extra cuddling makes the hurt child feel better, and takes attention away from the little one for hitting and might help her stop.
Otherwise if you can avoid having your big girl hear you talk about how challanging the little one is, that can help as well. Her behaviour sounds about right for an adventerous two-year-old after all, and is not bad in and of itself.
If you can, stay calm and simply state "No ...". Logic and explainations won`t help a bit.
You will need to extra babyproof for a while. Your big girl can help you here, and you can explain that Leah is just acting like a two-year-old, and we are doing all we can to keep her safe.

Hi B.,
What I am hearing is you have a child who is smart and intelligent and is a free thinker. She goes against the grain and will one day be a great politician.
She is different from your other daughter and I think that is the challenge in that you are comparing the two behaviors. I know we are often very tired and want children who follow our every rule but how much fun is that?
I don't know why she may be fighting with her sister but sibling rivalry has always existed and it still does. You will need to find the source of that.

This may not be the advise you seek but the things you have shown regarding your daughter does not show belligerence, what it shows is fierce independence.

Valerie

I had a child that was into everything and was hyperactive. Which not all have but they can be a handful. I would try to spend time with your older daughter when Leah is in for a nap or try to spend time with the older one and let your husband watch the Leah or take her for a walk. Also tell your older one that Leah is not bad she just is very young and active. I think you older one is assuring you that she is good so she doesn"t get punished. She might be afraid to get into trouble. Maybe a friend or family member can give you a break from Leah and you can spend time with the older one. Leah is probably very smart and needs creative toys to keep her busy. Also try not to yell at Leah or tell her to stop doing things from a distance. If she is into alot of trouble and very active you need to go up to her and get her attention first then tell her no you can't do that or whatever it may be. Talking to Leah from a distance sometimes really doesn"t work. Also be calm don"t yell and consitant. If she cannot do something today make sure she cannot do it tomorrow.Also if you yell they just know you are yelling about something and really not hearing what you are saying.Let your older daughter you love her alot and that Leah takes up alot of your time because she is younger and when she gets to be a big girl like her then you will have more time. A big one is not to hit Leah for doing something because you are just showing her hitting is O'k even though you are saying don"t hit. Good Luck A. R

Hi B.,
One line in your statement stood out..."but unfortunately the baby gets the praise and the attention when she has done something wrong".When a child does something wrong, praise is not the thing that should be given. Praise will only encourage bad behavior. Discipline should be done where she realizes this is not going to be tolerated. It's not to early to begin but you must be consistant. The Bible says in Proverbs 13:24 "He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him early."
B., our culture has gone way out of wack with our children saying just the opposite, it makes us feel guilty and unloving if we discipline. But the opposite is true. If we love our children, we will act quickly with bad behavior and not allow it to take root in their lives. Please don't believe the lie. You want your daughters to grow up healthy in all ways. Love, L.

B.,
do you use time out with your younger one? my now almost 6 year old was just like your little one, to the point she loved to turn my computer on and off just to see the light blink at 10 months old she fried it! When she was younger we would put her in a pack n play in the middle of the living room for time out and as she got older we would use a time out chair/ stool or rug. Now after watching supper nanny i have an X made out of duct tape on my kitchen floor by the back door (so they cant see the tv) and we set the timer for the amount of time as their age (i have 5 from almost 10 to will be 1 next week). For the most part the "naughty spot" works, for my almost 3 year old all i have to say to him "if you do that again you are going to sit on the naughty spot" and most of the time it works. Best of luck to you.

Hey B.,

its Just a stage,

ANd basically you need to BREAK the pattern.

Stop yelling even when your angry,

Make special time for each child.

Tell your 4 year old Leah is a GOOD GIRL.Just a baby.

Your 4 year old feels left out because your not including her,
and doing Joint activities with the baby.

things they can do together,

Play do and cookie cutters

Dip fruits into choclate or cream

read storys

ask the big one to read to the baby

I just think you need to be more organized and plan your days better.

the yelling has to stop , because your 4 year old hears it and it makes her repeat it and its making her feel insecure.
it also Obviously is not helping the situation.
your 22 month old isn't stopping, she is actually jusst building up a tolerance to the yelling, and it now means nothing to her.

a better way to handle the situation is to just remove her physically, and put her in a play pen, and ignore her for 5 minutes or until she stops screaming.

I usually say GO to bed, and my sons will run to their beds and cry it out ,

afterwards i go in and ask them NOT to do it again.

they agree, and we start all over again.

( of course they sometime repeat the act, but eventually they get it)

http://www.savvysource.com/activities/home

here is a website, if you need more I can certainly help you out,

Basically if you combine their activities they learn to enjoy eachothers company, and you teach them to share, and the little one will copy her older sister. and learn her good behaviors.

Finally I want to focus on the part where you say she is dangerous.

that concerns me,
now either your exaggerating, and she really is just not being watched properly

OR she has something serious going on, and needs to be evaluated. in which case you need to take action and try early intervention .

Good luck

M

First of all, both you and your daughter need to understand that what your 22 month old is doing is perfectly normal. Do not tell your 4 year old that the baby is bad. She is not bad, she is a toddler who is experimenting with her newly discovered cognitive & physical abilities.

Sounds to me like in addition to learning about child development and what is typical for this age group, you also need to do some baby proofing. A toddler will not respond to your reasoning for not touching a hot stove, but if you put up a stove-top guard, she has no choice but to find something else to do. Put door knob covers on the bathroom doors & keep them closed, and give your toddler a stool she can use to reach up to the counter. Just make sure that whatever you do not want touched is far away from her grasp.

The problem is not your 22 month old. The problem is you not understanding that this is normal, and may I even say good. It sounds to me like your youngest is growing, learning, and developing very well.

Imagine if she had absolutly no curiousity? You'd be asking for our advice about whether or not to have her evaluated for special needs.

A.