Need Advice from Moms/Dads Who've Survived Preteen "Crazies"

You have gotten some good advice.
I have an 11 yo too.
What works here is work and physical activity. When I say work I mean sending him out with my husband and have them create something in the shop. Having him change spark plugs and catalytic converters. Having him wash the cars, use any of the power tools.
We watch M*A*S*H on the weekends together.
I do read to mine, we just started Little House in the Big Woods. I homeschool so mine is doing some American History.
I also give him the mad dog look when he is disrespectful and remind him who makes dinner and just how quick I can whip up lasagna. He hates lasagna.

And it does get better. I have a 22 yo who now calls home and says Love you M. before he hangs up.

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only mom who thinks her son has been invaded by something dark & ugly ! We are having the same issues with my 12 year old. I don't have any advice except when it gets really bad we send him to his room to cool off & calm down. That helps my sanity more than anything. I will be interested to see what responses you get.

The mantra I have to keep reminding my self and my husband is: Rules without relationship = rebellion. I have a 12 yr old boy and while it was easy to relate to my daughter (shopping, chick flicks, mani-pedis, etc) there's very little that my son enjoys that I can relate to. The only way I know to relate to him is as a mom of a little boy. Clearly NOT what he wants.

So when I repeatedly bark commands at him and remind him of what he shouldn't be doing I hear a mom who is trying to help her son know what to do and what not to do. What he hears is that we think he's incapable of doing things independently (take out the garbage), that we disapprove of the things he likes to do (stop playing video games), etc. He hears negative messages. My husband gets home from work at 7:30 - 8:00 and has little to give. So we all collapse in front of a different screen and don't really "feed" him. Until a year or so ago we'd read together in the evening - but what tween boy wants to sit on his bed reading with his mom?

For thousands of years, until 100 years ago, boys worked side by side with thier fathers and learned how to raise livestock, build a house, make barrrels, shoe a horse or build furniture. They learned things and felt a sense of accomplishment by taking on challenges and mastering them. They help protect and provide. Now there's nothing for them to master other than video games or sports if they're atheletic. Their dads are away at work all day - so who is going to show them by example how to grow up to be a man?

So - we're trying to find things our son is interested in so we can encourage him and nudge him. LASt weekend my husband and son were making rockets - which they went and shot off in the field at one of the school. This weekend they're making a bigger one. We're hoping that by working side by side with him we'll grow our relationship, that he'll learn new skills and develop self confidence and a sense of accomplishment by doing new things.

So that's our goal - it's not going to be a quick fix but we know that yelling negatives at him as our only form of communication isn't going to work. Kids spell love as T I M E. That's what we've started working on cuz if we lose him at 12 it'll be a long time before we get him back. :o)

I'm curious to see what other answers you get - so I can glean the good stuff and use it on my young man.

This may not be what you want to hear, but my best advice is to back off a bit, and cut him some slack. It's a tough age, and like you said, he is a VERY good kid.
I blew it with my oldest daughter by expecting too much. We fought constantly over her attitude, she was pretty much punished on a daily basis. Taking away privileges was only a short term fix. She'd be better for a while and then it would start all over again. It was only after I started to let some things go and gave her a little space that her attitude improved.
I know a lot of parents have a zero tolerance policy for back talk and attitude, but I think this is one area to pick your battles. Maybe draw the line a little differently, for example, if he's got a bad attitude or is complaining about something he has to do (the famous "this is stupid" remark) well maybe let that go. But if he calls YOU stupid, or is being cruel to his siblings, name calling, etc. put your foot down.
I found I really had to adjust my techniques and expectations as my kids entered the teen years. It was a hard adjustment, because they had always been 99% well behaved and kind. But parenting teens IS very different than parenting children. I wish you strength and good luck!

I'm sure you've done this already, but it may need repeating. Make it CRYSTAL CLEAR what type of attitude/language is acceptable in the house and the consequence for not abiding by that.
And then simply choose your battles.....
Some of his actions may be just to get a rise out of you... Good Luck, y'all will make it. From what you describe he is a very accomplished, focused, sweet boy.

When my SS at 12 or so started to get surly, DH got him into football as a positive outlet for his aggressions and we called him on his behavior toward us and his sister. "SS, that's not acceptable. Go apologize to her for calling her (insert name here)." If he didn't, consequences could be losing a game, video time, friend time, etc. If he demanded anything, the answer was no. "Take me to the mall" for example. Nope. Not with that attitude.

Hang in there. My SS is now a soon to be college graduate. We didn't eat him.

"How to Talk so Teens will listen and Listen so Teens will Talk" by Faber and Mazlish

I found lots of good ideas in this book and recommend it and the "so kids will listen" book as well.

I'm on my 4th teen and can tell you plenty about what didn't work for me with my older 2! When they were teens, I really laid down the law, was tough on consequences and they toed the line but my parenting style hurt our relationship.

I now have 2 teen boys at home and people tell me they are the sweetest guys. Not only are they respectful at home, we enjoy eachother's company, have fun together and have good communication. The main thing I'm doing differently this time around is to show respect to my boys as I clearly state what I will and won't accept from them. It's more about our relationship and less about laying down the law.

Rather than yell and demand that they behave a certain way (I'm not saying you do this but I sure did), I make my expectations and consequences clear. We talk about this before there are problems, when we are calm. And I listen to their feedback. Because sometimes my expectations are unreasonable but when we discuss it, we can work out a good solution together.

Lots of "crazies" going on. LOL Another parent posted about the same thing with their 15 yr old daughter.

I have a 23 yr old son...and a 19 yr old daughter. I have survived the meltdown and lived to tell about it. (They REALLY should give out awards or tshirts at the very least)

With my son it was easy. I always had open communication with him so I would remind him that I'm here and that he could tell me ANYTHING regardless of topic without judgment and that I loved him. I also, when ever he would act out (stealing, back talking, being a butthead in general) I'd warn and then I'd take something away. I can tell you that at the age of 15, and after getting sick of the BS, I took every single thing out of his room (and I did this calmly BTW) except for his bed and his dresser and put it in the attic/garage and took the door off the hinges. I then told him that if he wanted "priveledges" in our home he's have to earn them, one at a time. I didn't yell, I didn't scream, I didn't even raise my voice.

After a while of having one pair of jeans and 2 shirts to wear to school he earned his clothes back (he left them lying all over the floor so I took those too) and one night, after a really rough day, he came to me, at midnight on a school night and said mom I need to talk. And we sat in the floor of my kitchen, in the dark, eating little debbie snack cakes and talked til 2. We cried allot, I found out what was wrong and we worked thought it without judgment. And he's 23 and we're best friends.

My daughter on the other hand left to go and live with her dad at 14 and didn't come back til the nuts and crazy wore off when she was 18 and is now a really good productive member of society.

But MAN is it ROUGH. And I can't put it any other way...so i'll tell you what I tell all the parents who come to me and ask, their job is to push you. It's what they do. YOUR JOB is to stand true. Always. Unwaivering. It's how they learn to trust you. And don't freak out when he DOES wanna talk to you and says something that's totally off the wall. They're waiting for that. And always remain calm, even if on the insides you wanna stangle them. And remember that when they wanna talk, you gotta grab that opportunity when it comes for THEM not when it's convenient for you and that it may just come at midnight on a school night and that's ok.

You're going to make it through this. I PROMISE.

Good luck to you. I'm sending good thoughts your way. :)

My "go to" suggestion for this is a quick: "ExCUSE me? I'm your mother. Try that again with respect, please."

Really. He KNOWS what respect is and what it sounds like, (and what it DOESN'T).... I have a very well behaved son also. He is 13 now. He just earned his 2nd Degree Black. So they know very well (not just from expectations at home) what respect is, and what it is not. Rather than "correct" him, let him correct himself. Just a little reminder that he isn't paying attention to WHO he is talking to, often does the trick for me. Usually, my son will very quickly pause, smile and say "uhhh... sorry Mama." and then rephrase whatever it was.
I always tell them it is ok to not like or want to do whatever, but it is NOT ok to have a bad attitude about it, and complain the whole time, or mutter and back talk about it.
Since he is a good kid...and this IS age/hormonally related, do cut him a little slack. And start treating him like a more mature kiddo. He doesn't need you to tell him what to say or not to say anymore. He just needs to be reminded when he has stepped out of what is acceptable. He is mature enough to figure out what he needs to do about it, when you point it out.
:)
Good luck.

BTW, I also have found that humor goes a LONG way with my son. I can use a silly/snide voice right back at him, and he gets the message quickly (and we can laugh about it too).

I agree with Jim at Home Dad.

I too have an 11 year old (tomorrow.) I was thinking of calling in the exorcism priest but thankfully read this post.

I'm with Mamazita and would back off a bit, but I do like the "Excuse me, I am your mother, please rephrase with respect." I don't punish my kids for their bad attitude or sarcasm - they're teens - it won't do any good, but a gentle reminder that we use respectful words and treat each other with respect goes a long way. I try to model being respectful by being respectful to them.

Don't you love it? When DH and I have had to take DD's cell phone away as a consequence, you'd think we cut off her arm. Yes, we are the WORST parents EVER! Plenty of horrid, rotten things she yells at us. I used to take it to heart and feel terrible, but I look at it differently now. My best advice is don't engage the attitude, don't take it personally and allow tween angry words hurt your feelings. They push back, try to manipulate parents and push limits. Totally developmentaly normal for this age. Deep down even if they don't understand it or would ever admit it, they need rules and limits to feel safe and loved. Plenty of times this year, my 7th grader gets the teenage attitude, but after 10-15 minutes in different room, will come back perfectly behaved, happy and sweet again. Forgive it, love them. Don't let their bad attitude become your bad mood. It's hard to stay angry around people who will remain positive and cheeful. That's what helps me.

E.,

You have rec'd some good advice here. I have raised 3 to adulthood. The preteen/teen years were the most fun, exciting and stressful years of their growing up time. I look back on those years with joy.

My attitude is "life is what you make it". What I mean by that is : you can look forward to these years with dread and fear OR you can forward to these years in terms of getting to watch your children grow into young men and women and have the opportunity to be a part of it. I had a friend once who said " I think that we should put every kid at the age of 13 (it starts earlier, now) into an insane asylum and not let them out until they're 21!!" While you will definitely experience these moments over the next few years, there are many more sane, loving and tender moments to be had.

I am not an expert in the parenting field, I just know what worked for mine.
Each of my children is very different and therefore we had to adjust to each one's personality. So, first thing is to know what makes your child tick. Second, (this worked for all of mine) is to acknowledge and educate them on what is going on with them/their bodies. They don't readily see it and let me tell you, if your son is anything like my first, he is confused about why he's acting differently, too.

I will never forget my oldest coming in from school one day and I asked him how his day had been. He started telling me about his day and within a span of literally 2 minutes he had run the gamut of emotions from happy to sad to elated to rage and confused. I just stood there dumbfounded at first not believing what I had just seen come out of my "normally" very even keeled young man. And then, I just looked at him and said "Well, alrighty then, you little prepubescent adolescent, you!"
What was that all about? He looked at me and the light bulb came on for him and he just started laughing and so did I! We then had a very frank discussion about hormone rages and he told me he didn't like how they made him feel. (empathy given) and then we discussed a plan for handling these emotions when they reared their head. We had key words like the prepubescent adol. or raging hormones??? And he would immediately stop and we would talk about it or he would just be able to calm himself. The most important thing I find when they are going through this is to let them know that you are there for them, you are not the enemy, that it is far better to talk things through and that is the best way for them to show you they are growing up. While this is the beginning of their desire for "independence"...an 11 year old or 13 year old is in no way ready to be left to their own devices! And just b/c they tell you they are grown up doesn't mean they are. Therefore, a frank discussion with clear cut guidelines is imperative. It needs to give them a chance for a little freedom and consequences if they don't follow your rules and stick to it!!! Let them help you in the discussion of what they think they can handle and ask them what they think the consequence should be if they don't abide by it. Of course, you always have the last say! At times I would have to ask mine if they think the consequence really fit the "crime" so to speak and they would often set harsher consequences for themselves than I would have set. (but I never told them that! LOL)

I could write a book on this so I will stop after this one more thing. I told my kids that this is a very special thing that is happening to them and it is part of their growing up process. I told them I would be there for them to help them and to guide them as long as we kept the line of communication open. I let them know that the consequence of not talking would be a very strict sort of existence which would not be fun for either of us... that it's through communication and their actions that I would be able to trust them and that without trust they would spend their teen years locked in their rooms! I also told them that they are known by the company they keep and that will also determine the amt of freedom they are allowed. With each age during their growing process they are given a little more freedom and if they break rules it's taken away and they have to earn it back. This worked well for us. (that doesn't mean we didn't have some insane times b/c we did! but in the long run...they all turned out to better than I could've hoped for!) Oh, almost forgot...when they start staying with friends, have friends that drive, etc....have a plan for escape for them. Let them know that if they find themselves in a situation they don't need to be in that they can call you and you will come pick them up no questions asked! (until you get home or the next day whichever may be appropriate. this means you teach them about never getting in a car after drinking or whoever is driving has been! ) Also let them know that they can blame you if someone wants them to go somewhere that they know they shouldn't be going or just don't want to go. ie My mom says I can't or mom said I have to be home etc. HEE! I took the blame for alot of stuff!
I also told mine that there would be times that they might want to go to a party etc. and that if I said NO there was a very good reason. It might just be my gut telling me that they shouldn't be there and they just had to trust me b/c I am the one who loves them and will always have their best interest at heart. I can tell you it happened at least once with all 3 of my kids and each time something bad happened. They learned to trust me through this process as well. Just LOVE EM and have FUN with them! Be honest with them. Be the parent and let them know that have safety and security while they step out into the process of growing into adulthood.

Hope this helps and BLESSINGS to you and your precious family!

KP

I am betting you never allowed it before so why now? True he is trying to find his own and be more idependedt from you. But having a bad attitude toward anyone is not ok. Takeing loved toys or events is one type of punishment. Grounding is another. Keep in mind that he is developing right now into a MAN!! Shocking but these baby steps are now going toward his character. Also try as much as you can to be aware of things that YOU are doing that are aggrivating him. Is his bad attitude responce in the way you asked him the question " Go pick up your room NOW!" or is your question " Will you go pick up your room for me right quick. We have company coming or I wanna vaccume tomorrow (if your sweet enough he might even offer to vaccume for you~ which i doubt but should be rewarded with a sonic drink, or something special thank you (baseball card? idk my kids are still very young 2 and 4 and I am REALLY not looking forward to the pre teens or teen yrs!! But if he gives you bad attitude to the first type of question say " sorry lets try this again" then ask nicer on your part before it becomes angery bad attitude. If he still responds rudely then make him do the dishes too, or some other task your dreading like wiping down the base boards. Same as when they are little just new tecniques. As I am dishing this I am also realizing improvements I need to make. Ty!!! Good luck with your new son, learning to comunicate, and respect new boundaries.

Make sure your husband literally stands between him and you and says, "You will not treat my wife like this. This is not how we treat a woman." Have him do some guy stuff with him as well and talk to him about what it means to be a boy and what it means to be a man. Raise the bar and tell him how you look forward to him demonstrating man-like behavior. When boys in those preteen years have he raging hormones, they don't really know how to transition between kid and adult. Dads need to step up.

You have rec'd a lot of good answers, and we have found LoveandLogic.com to be very helpful. They have an audio CD called "Hormones and Wheels." We listened to it in the car without the kiddos.

Basically, the approach encourage you to be ready with your answers before the situations come up. By 11 and 12, kids know what is going to send you into orbit!!! And by practicing your responses ahead of time, you stay calmer in the moment.

Just because the pre-teens are hormonal and growing, and going goofy, does not give them free will to be rude and disrespectful. One of the Love and Logic approaches to rudeness or disrespect would be a parent saying in a calm voice, "I will be happy to help you with that, when your voice sounds like mine."

We have loved the ideas given by these psychologists! It has probably kept us from needing one!! Or two!!

We just went through this with our 14yo and are going through it with our 11 yo. Hang in there! It really does get better, I promise!

We took privileges away. That, and extra chores worked for us. Also, when he would get the attitude up, we would just say "attitude" and he would reign it in.

You do need to have a conversation with him about what is acceptable. I would also give him a little more freedom in some things. Once the older boy got his act together, he gave him the freedom to do pretty much what he wanted with his free time. He gets this freedom as long as the school work and chores get done.

Good Luck!