I will try to keep this brief, but it probably won’t end up that way :) (nope, it’s extremely long, sorry)
After 15 years together, married in Oct. '06, twins born in June '08, I am separated. About the time my girls turned one, my FIL found out that he had stage 4 lung cancer, and my husband found out that his job would be phased out in a year. He started taking pain pills (found out later that he had been smoking pot and taking the occasional pill since he was 14- I am so blind!). The pills changed his personality and he became abusive. Standard pattern- verbal and emotional escalating into physical. He put his hands around my neck and quickly squeezed one time, I guess as a threat, then last summer he hit me on the side of the head. All of these things were done in front of my girls. I did argue with him when these 'events' happened, I didn't become meek and just take it. I regret my girls seeing this part of me. I was very depressed and didn't know how crippling it can be.
Anyway, I had him arrested; girls and I went to Mom's for the summer and returned just before school started. (I teach) Two weeks later he quit his job. He did not actively look for another. (He thinks that calling a couple places, once, and signing up with a couple temp agencies in two months is 'looking') We lost the house. (By then it was full of fist holes and broken door frames, etc.) We moved in with his mother. She and his father had decided to give the house to our children, before FIL passed away (over a year ago now). The fights became less frequent, but nothing really changed. Right before Thanksgiving, his mother “laid into me" too. Yelling, cussing and scaring the girls. I left for my Mother’s house the next day and informed him that I would be looking for my own place.
It took a while, and some financial help from my father, but we moved out in mid-January. He came home to a house empty of his family and our things.
He quit pills that minute and (I'm pretty sure) that he has stayed off of them (because his personality is not the angry person it was (but as I am writing this I am thinking about the fact that every time I try to have a conversation with him he becomes defensive with some anger and raised voice- but not quite like those awful 3 years)
He went through detox. (I was it, not pretty) It took about two weeks. Then a week or two of "Oh, woe is me. I am heart broken and lost without you and the girls” Then there was this amazing week and a half or two of this alien invasion. He held my hand in public, ate out with us and was involved and held conversations. Spoke to strangers that commented on the girls or, well anything. He played with my hair and was generally affectionate. I guess I need to explain how shocking this part was. In our 15 years together, he may have held my hand twice. He never did anything affectionate in public. If I pestered him enough to get him to go out to eat, he sat in silence, ate, then acted impatient for me to finish so he could have a cigarette. As soon as I was finished he would race for the door while I handled the check. Same thing at a store. If forced to go with me to help with the girls, he would hang back, then as soon as I entered the check-out line, he would grab the girls and head for the car. He has been like this as long as I have known him. Dinner out was better with another couple along. He didn't have any problem talking with a guy friend and it gave me someone to talk to also. BUT, when the girls were born (and I almost died) he was AWESOME!!! He came to the hospital every day for the 8 days they kept me (hour drive each way) and when I was released he went back to work and we traveled to see the girls every day. Once they were home, he was wonderful. He was up at every feeding, changed diapers without blinking an eye or saying, eew, it's not my turn. He often beat me to it! He prepared bottles, fed baby food, played with them, giggled with them. In short, he was a great Dad and a really good husband for that first year of their lives. I have video proof! He really got down on the floor and played with them! Every day!
So, after those post separation two weeks of heavenly behavior, it just stopped. If asked, he says it's because he doesn't know what I am going to do. (blaming me/ typical abuser)
If he were like that two weeks all the time, I would be in heaven! Anyone have any thoughts on what that was or why it stopped?
Since then he has been back to his, quiet, reserved, (depressed?) self. If he comes to see the girls, he sits in a chair and says nothing except to maybe ask the girls what movie they want him to put in. Then he just sits there, usually with them on his lap. Often they get bored and go play or try to interest him in coloring or playing with them. (they are not all about the tv- we don't have channels, not even local- can’t afford it) This is pretty much how he acted before there were children. I just thought that was who he is.
So, okay, I have papers drawn up. They can be divorce or separation. Oh, that brings up another aspect that you need to know about. My father.
My father knows that I can’t afford to do this on my own. He has paid my rent through June, and he bought us beds and the girls some clothes and some household items so we could move out. (while we were in GA, hubs had a friend over that brought bed bugs. Super gross. Had to burn beds, couch, etc. and were using MIL beds at her house) All of my family thinks that I should move closer to family (they all really mean closer to my Mom- in GA). I would love to live near my mom, but I have a good job here, in a teaching field that rarely has openings, and I have tenure and good evaluations every year. My father is angry that paperwork has not been filed yet. (I do understand this-he wants his daughter out of this situation) He has been angry enough to tell me that come June he is through with me, in all ways.
My lawyer informed me that he has been calling her and trying to bully her into filing my papers behind my back. (both illegal and unethical- does he thinks she wants to be disbarred? Or does he think that everyone here in E TN is stupid? Or –and I think this is it- does he think that because he has been in a position of power and wealth for so long that he can bully or buy someone into doing anything?) My lawyer was appalled that he would “sweat me out” (her words for trying to force me to move by withdrawing help). Please don’t misunderstand me. I know that his money is not my money. (He is not now/ and never was ‘hurting ‘ for money, even in his divorce from my mother although he convinced many that he was poor- my brother hacked dad’s business computers and got the real info) I just don’t like the feel that he is trying to force me to do his will, by making things so difficult.
So, I think I am finally down to the original question I intended. If I file divorce, the visitation stuff could cause it to drag on for quite a while. If I file separation, we still have to hash out visitation, but I could immediately remove him from my health and dental insurance, therefore freeing up about $240 per month, and now that I no longer have to pay for child care, that will free up another $160 per month (yes I know- quite a deal- church friend). So, that is $400 toward my $540 per month rent. If I just file divorce, I can’t remove him until the judge finalizes it. I know the smart thing is to file separation now, but my heart is having a very hard time with it. He has a crappy, seasonal job that doesn’t even pay him enough to drive back and forth to it the next week, unless they get 6 full days of work in. He weed trims from sun up to sun down and is exhausted every evening. (yea, I know, poor baby…..sarcasm here) The courts will figure his child support as if he had a full time job at minimum wage. He can’t afford it. He will lose his job because he won’t be able to have gas to get to work and he will still have to pay child support. If I delete him form insurance, he will not be able to afford his anti-depressant and his anti-anxiety meds. One of them is $9 per pill! I hate this. I do still care for him. If he could treat me like he did that magical, strange two weeks, we would have a great life.
Why can’t I be a b—ch and just file and not care. I know I have to put the girls’ well-being first. I know I have issues with trying to help/fix everybody. I just don’t seem to be able to do it.
In the past 15 years, I have coddled him (just like his mom did). I would make his dr appts, find him jobs to apply for, help with the applications, take off work to take him to dr appts, if they were out of town because he ‘can’t find them’. Enabling, I guess. How do I let go? I constantly feel like crying. I do see a counselor, and I see a psychiatrist next Tuesday to get back on anti-depressants.
Like I said, my head knows what to do; my heart is torn in two and hurts so bad. Someone help! Advice please, answers, please. NOT hate please, I am having enough trouble as it is, I don’t need someone being ugly.
So many responses! Thank you all for taking the time to read such a long post and for taking the time to respond. So many of you not only gave great advice/help, but you all are so supportive. I really do appreciate it. It makes it all easier to know that there are people out there (that you can actually speak/write to) that are understanding and supportive. It truly helps to know I have a cheering section and am not alone.
His nephew just called to tell me that our cat needed to be put down, fast. I asked him if he had the heart to do it and he said no, but he would because he couldn't stand to see him suffer. He went back out to do the dead and Zeus was gone. By the description he gave, it looks like something inside ruptured. I will save you the details. He has had a heart problem since we moved to my MILs last Oct. I paid $300 for tests and x-rays and meds and am not allowed to have pets in the apt that me and the girls have. Chris was supposed to be giving Zeus his meds twice a day. I was there last week so the girls could visit and noticed that there was still half full bottles of pills when they should have been just one or two left (fluid pill and heart med- he was retaining so much fluid he looked like a prego goat). I laid into him. He said that he doesn't have the time to medicate him before he leaves for work (like he can’t get up an extra two minutes early). Well something 'ruptured'. (Probably from the fluid) That makes pet #4 that we have lost since he caused us to lose the house! We only have one left and Tori calls it hers. All the ones that have gone were Brens! WTHeck am I going to tell her??? The first one was a tiny kitten that showed up on the porch and a Mama raccoon killed it for its food. Of the ones we had for a while we told her the first one (Rat Rat) found a girlfriend and a new home with her (probably true). Coyotes got the next one that we called hers, because the first was gone. (Tink) Tink hasn't been around (of course) so we told her that Zeus could be her kitty. OMGosh!!! My poor little girls! They are going to be heartbroken! Except for the kitten, these are all cats we had for, between 4 and 10 years! they were inside pets until we lost our house and his mom insisted on no cats in the house, but her nasty little Chihuahua and two dachshunds were in there all the time. (she had said that they were not indoor dogs and there would be no animals in the house)
I AM SO MAD AT HIM!!! Maybe I can hold on to it and go file this afternoon!!!!! Such a JERK!!! Two minutes to fold a tiny pill and a half into a little piece of cheese and make sure he eats it!!! I saved that little life from the center lane of a highway when he was 4wks old! He slept on my back!
I either need to write a book or have a breakdown. Don’t have time for either. Yuck. I don’t even want to think about it! If I had known that this would be the result of relying on the unreliable, I would have found him a new home no matter how much it broke my heart. It would have been better than him suffering. Sorry to dump again. I think I am going to print all these responses out and read them over and over again, all the way into the lawyers office, and after I tell her to fill the damn papers!
I couldnt get through the whole story but i know from personal experience that only time will make things easier on you. You know you have to let him go or you and the girls will constantly be dealing with a yoyo life. ups ands downs. Move on in the end it will be hard but worth it for you and the girls.
I wish you luck!
Heart is where enabling behavior comes from.
Head is where adult planning and ethics come from.
You have a responsibility to make the best decision for you and the kids.
That's what everything boils down to. Best adult, non-enabling decision for you - and the kids.
But you already know that.
I'm a guy, so genetically not very good at soothing and validating feelings (but i'm trying). But let me give it a shot.
We all understand your connection to him. You married him, had kids - had it for 15 years. That's probably a large chunk of your life. It's not easy.
You don't know if your enabling or helping. It's insurance. It's financial. It's confusing. You're both surviving on borrowed money.
The separation solves your problems, but it puts him without insurance. But he hasn't been contributing to the dollars you pay to keep him on insurance? He hasn't asked - hey, do me a favor on insurance? No, of course he hasn't because he doesn't need to. You'll take care of it.
And that's ok in a marriage. But I think you're at that dark place where fear has surrounded you, and you don't see a way out that could be described as anywhere near a win.
I hear you being undecided about divorce. And that's ok. I was in that same place once upon a time. Pro and Con lists. Endless conversations in my head. Until I realized - if I have to ask....
If I have to ask if it'll get better (it means he hasn't offered to try and help make it better)
If I have to ask if divorce/separation is the answer (it means he hasn't offered any alternative answers)
If I have to ask if I'm happy...then I'm not.
And I knew then that I needed my happiness. That was ME. That is part of WHO i am. I'm not willing to sacrifice that. And that wouldn't be a healthy marriage anyway.
Maybe you'll work it out. I hope so. But I think once you ignore the fear - the financial cookie will crumble however it will - then you'll be able to focus on the next best step for you and the kids. Whatever that may be.
And once you have chosen that path - the fear will lift and you'll have a direction to travel in your life. :)
Cut the cord and go the distance - file for divorce. You've put up with so much what's a little more sacrifice for what I read as your ultimate aim - divorce. Separation seems too much like dragging your feet in my opinion. There are short term gains (mostly financial) but I think you should focus on the long term. Whatever you do, just do it and do it boldly. You may feel like you have to close your eyes and leap but that first step is always the hardest. This first step will be like all the other first steps you took to get you here in the first place - moving out, seeking help, etc. You took those steps so take this one. As for caring about him or anyone else, I would say you are human so no worries. Counseling would probably help you sort through the emotional mess and provide you with strength and resolve. Good luck and many well wishes. I am rooting for you.
First of all, he's a grown man, he needs to be treated that way. You think you are enabling him, but really you are treating him as one of your children. It sounds more like a parent/child relationship instead of a husband/wife relationship. Speaking of parents, where are his?
Once you stop enabling/treating like a child, one of two things will happen in regards to his responsibilities: one - he will be down for a short bit but he will find a way to bounce back (it SEEMS as though he has no way of supporting himself but you really don't know b/c he doesn't HAVE to); two - he will completely fall on his face (and that WILL NOT BE YOUR FAULT). Either way, he is not your responsibility.
I totally hear what you are saying. I was in an abusive relationship for three years and it was SO hard to take that first step. But, once I did the next step came easier then the next step came even easier and so on.
You can do this!!!! I promise. You have so much more strength than you could ever imagine. You can still care about him but you need to do it from a distance.
Sending wishes, positive thoughts and blessings your way...
File for divorce. Petition for supervised visitation - if he hit you, one day he will hit your kids. He is an adult and no longer your responsibility. If he turns his life around - he will get to be a part time dad. If not, better to cut your losses now.
This sentence says a LOT about the last 15 years: "I know I have issues with trying to help/fix everybody."
You cannot save him. (Read that again!)
Save yourself and your girls. Plan & do what's best for you. Get your support system nearby, make wise financial decisions. Go to Alanon.
File for divorce.
He needs to save himself. Good luck.
Not that this should be your priority...but just wait until you meet that Mr. Right after you get your life back and get rid of all your skeletons in the closet...you won't give a flying hoot about him. Face it...he's a loser. If he outta work...let him get medicaid to help him with all his mental issues...don't let it be your problem....you have enough of your own.
I wish I had all the time in the world to answer this question, but I'm late to pick up my daughter. I've spent the last several years watching an almost carbon copy of this play out with members of my family. Not me directly, but close enough to have learned a few things.
First of all, your primary focus should be on your girls. Whatever is best for them is what you should do. I think you know in your heart what needs to happen. You are spending an awful lot of time feeling sorry for him and not wanting him to suffer or hurt. He's a grown man who has made his bed. What happens is NOT your fault and no matter how much you want to, you can't save him. He is responsible for his actions and his life. Until he wants it to change, it won't. Sounds harsh, but that is the bottom line.
I've watched this saga play out for years in my family because the wife never could get up the nerve to actually take a stand. It drug on and on for years, repeating the cycle, and eventually the kids were affected greatly. Don't do that....you and your girls deserve a happy loving home and some peace.
Best of luck. You can always PM me if you need to talk to someone.
Beth, I haven't read the other responses so not sure if I'm repeating. You already know what the right thing is to do for you and for your girls. It took me a long time to get to that point nd I still think that first meeting with the attorney was the hardest step. You can't control what someone else does, you can only control your reaction to them and what you do.
This isn't about you being a b--ch. That was a hard thing for me to realize. There comes a point where you have to do what's best as he is not capable of doing that right now. He's an adult and needs to take responsibility for his medication, his job and his life. It sounds like that's enough for him right now. He needs to take care of himself before he could possibly take care of you or your children.
Best of luck to you! It's not easy no matter what you do, but you have support from a lot of other single moms!
It's hard to be logical in an emotional situation.
I really do think you need to get away from him though.
Legal separations are available for good reason. You might be able to work things out in a year or two.
He's obviously got problems, needs some professional help, and is not good at convincing you that he really cares for any length of time.
You should know you and your children are worth more than how you've been treated in the past.
There is always hope, and time will tell if things are fixable.
I'd gain my independence from him which will allow him to possibly learn to be independent as well. Your relationship has been co-dependent so far and on an unbalanced scale.
There seems to be a pattern here: he acts in ways that are not healthy
"since you have known him" yet some dynamic within you motivates you to marry him and have two kids. Italso keeps you from setting firm boundaries in spite of warning signs. Sounds like you have a tendency to "look the other way" and accept less than healthy treatment. Work with the counselor to pull those blinders off. You sound like you are starting to do that. Please stick with it. Also, there seems to be a pattern in your relationships where the male acts the a** and you take it, your dad and your hubby.Your dad has every right to be angry but something is off in how you two are interacting with all this. Is there anyway to not rely on him for money? It doesn"t seem healthy for you. Find your voice mama and listen to it! Become Mama Bear for your girlies!
Everything Dad on Purpose said ... Make a pro / con list ... You already know all of this in your head. Just needed a concrete list to get the heart on board. That's the hard part. Be strong for your girls. You and they deserve happiness always. Best wishes.
You have gotten tons of good advice and support on here for doing what you must and cutting your soon-to-be-ex loose.
I won't add to that. I would like to add just one thing for you to keep in mind:
Once you are in the process of getting rid of your husband, keep an eye and ear on your dad.
Perhaps he really does mean well, wants you to be rid of an abuser, etc., but his behavior -- both with calling your attorney and with threatening to cut you off financially at a certain point if you do not do what dad demands -- are utterly unacceptable. They are threats, and threats are never loving. Plan with great care so you do not need a dime from your dad, because he may use it later, and over and over, to control you and demand that you do what he thinks is best. I wonder if he even will start criticiziing how you raise your children and getting involved in that?
That's no way to live -- leaving an abuser just to end up dominated by another man.
If your job is a good one, why do you need any of your dad's money? What can be eliminated, cut, reduced or redirected? If necessary, go to a local nonprofit women's center and get free financial counseling preparatory to filing for divorce. And leave all of dad's contributions entirely out of the future equation.
One other thing. Those magical two weeks, sadly, were a sham. Your husband may totally have believed himself when he was acting affectionate. But those two weeks were two weeks out of 15 years of marriage, and you know that he had never acted like this before -- even in your good times. So it wasn't the real him, even if he could convince himself he was changing. It did not stick because it was not his real self. I'm glad you're seeing a psychiatrist; please talk with that doctor about how you keep thinking of these two weeks. You need to let them go.
Do what is best for yourself and your girls. You all deserve it. I know you don't want to hurt him, but it may help him too to have to finally grow up. You really need to take care of yourself and the girls right now anyway. I'm sorry you're in such a difficult situation. Life can be so difficult sometimes. I hope you get through this rough patch soon.
He needs to grow up and you need to break free. That extra money you NEED and will not get from him via child support. Stop fronting his bills and get your family back on track. if seperation will allow you to pull him off your ins then do that, wait some time then file divorce papers. Make you and your children first stop making excuses for him and just rip off the band aid. gl
Sounds like you need to get it over with. You can not worry about his medical needs right now. He will have to worry about that himself. Just make sure the judge knows that he will not need to take the girls if he's off his meds and see what he does with the visitation order. Your father feels like since he suporting you he has a say in what goes on. Unfortunatly he sounds very controling himself. Just let him know that you appricate his help but you have got to do whats best for you and the girls. But if it was me I would not drag my feet any longer than I had to.
Good luck and God Bless!
with your last paragraph, you have effectively tied our hands. How can we tell you to leave, to find a better life for your kids.....in essence, give you advice... if your head knows what to do, but your heart is torn in two?
No matter what advice we give you, your head will say "yes" & your heart will say "no". It's up to you. We can't do this for you.
I wish you Peace, Strength, & the Ability to be Consistent in your life choices. Please make or break this relationship. Your children deserve a stable life. :)
First off, you can get the divorce and leave the visitation and custody and support issues open.
Second, the problem is he is just abstaining from drug use - he is not recovering from addiction. There is a huge difference.
If he really wants his life to get better, tell him to get involved in NA and work the steps. At first, he'll sit in those meetings and not really understand what people are talking about and will say to himself I'm different; it won't work that like for me; I can never make that much progress. But if he just keeps going and listening, one day it will all click and he will be on the road to a new life.
Also, if you do divorce him, the judge might order that you keep him on your health insurance for a specific amount of time so he can still get his meds and have time to figure out something for himself.
Go talk to your lawyer. I'm not sure you have all the right facts.
Separate, then divorce.
Your girls are watching you (both) and this is what they are learning is 'normal' in relationships.
Show them something better and they will grow up and have better lives for it.
You will be happier when you are not trying to raise a man who won't ever grow up.
You are not being a b--ch in cutting your ties to this guy.
It's necessary for your and your children's survival.
And when he's gone, it'll be like this dead weight has been lifted off your shoulders.
It won't happen over night, but you WILL be alright.
I know my heart and what it can take. My brother is an attorney but not family law. I told him I need an attorney who will keep me from doing things I know I cannot live with when he pushes me to the wall. That was exactly what my attorney was. A very good attorney but he kept me from using information that could have destroyed my ex. People who know me very well do not understand that but I cannot live with destroying someone's life no matter how bad they treated me.
This is just me reading your words but I get the feeling in your heart you do not want to destroy your husband you just don't want to be married to him anymore. You have every right to separate and that would be financially the best thing to do but can you live with what may happen if you do.
What I would do and this is me who doesn't have to walk in your shoes is tell your husband I am filing for divorce instead of separating, you need to pay me for your portion of the health insurance or I will separate and cut you off. His decision, he can live with the consequences, ya know? If you can get by without support beyond him paying for his insurance then don't ask for it.
Another thing is going to your dad and say I am filing the damn papers but on my terms, I will need support from you.
I can tell you looking back keeping things on my terms wasn't the easiest way but I am very glad I did.
Here this may make you laugh, five years! and he still calls me asking for help with stuff. :p
The only thing you CAN control and change is you and your reactions to the world and everyone around you. Period. That being said, you need to try to do what you feel is right for you and your beautiful daughters. It's hard to seperate the head and the heart. </3 I get it. Sorry. Addiction IS a disease and DOES affect all who are around it. Once the person stops using, the brain is still an addict, so it takes a LONG time to begin thinking and acting with anything but that "addicted" brain again. You already know what you need to do. You just need to DO it. I am wishing you the peace and strength that you so desperatly need...............
In a temporary order you will have to keep the status quo. That means if he is on your insurance he will have to stay on. If he is living on your income right now, any money for bills or even food he will get spousal support. They are not going to let you dump him and free up any of your income. He will still be part of your life until the divorce is final and even then he may get some sort of money from you, spousal support.
Seriously I know this is happening all over the USA. The tides are changing. My friend is a SAHM and makes 0 her hubby soon to be ex brings home about $8000 per month. He got custody of the kids since she is unable to support them and he got child support and he asked for spousal support...stupid equality.....the only thing she got is he has to make the house payment and he has to keep her on the insurance for the entire time they are still in the process of divorcing. One of my other friends was court ordered to provide insurance for her ex as long as he lives.
I think if you have the good job you are describing that is keeping you from moving to a town closer to your mom then you should be able to afford to pay rent and bills.
I do not understand why your father would have to give you any money at all. Stop taking it and as hard as it will be learn to stand on your own two feet and take responsibility for your own life. That way no one has the power to bully you into any choice at all.
If you are unsure about what you want the outcome of your marriage to be then you need to see someone who specializes in marriage counseling so that you can both go and perhaps get to the bottom of his mental issues. He may be Bi-polar, he really sounds like that or even have Borderline Personality Disorder. Either way he needs to be evaluated for a med appointment and possibly some serious counselling. If he has been like this in the past and then was able to switch around to a different personality he needs some psychological help. Telling him that if he agrees to go with your and to appointments on his own that if things work out you can try marriage again.
I would only do this to achieve one goal. His mental health care. Not necessarily for the factual rekindling the marriage but so that he could see a professional that could evaluate him for a serious mental health issue. This way you will know you did every possible thing you could to help him and make him a better person who will have your children at least every other weekend and some during the week too. I would always want to be sure they were safe and unless he is evaluated and really trying he is not going to get better. If he "thinks" things may work out he will try harder and be more honest maybe....
