A little background, my daughter is 8 and in 3rd grade, she has a Sept. bday and is the youngest in her class. She was identified gifted in 1st grade and diagnosed ADHD in 2nd. She started Adderall in 2nd grade and she stopped getting in trouble at school (by trouble I mean getting in/out of her seat at the wrong times/not listening to/following directions/and respecting others' personal space--no violence). She has a best friend and gets along with her classmates and is well-liked. My husband is deployed, and though he is not her biological father, she calls him Daddy, and they are very close (he's been in our lives since she was a year old). She plays soccer and participates in karate. All these things to me spell happy child. But she has a very sensitive disposition and a quick-temper. She is quick to cry and say things that worry me, like that she wishes she could pull all her hair out, she wishes some people were papers she could rip to shreds, etc. Tonight she told me she doesn't feel happy inside. I am calling to make her an appt with a child psychologist tomorrow, but what should I expect? Are they going to want to change her ADHD meds.? Could they be causing her to act this way? Will they put her on anti-depressants? Does she need talk therapy? Is ANYONE else going through something like this?? It's 10:30pm, and I can't find any answers fast enough...
**Thank you all so much for your insightful feedback!! It's only been a little over an hour, but I do feel much more optimistic about my daughter being able to get the help she needs (and about me getting the information I need to help her!). Will definitely come back to *tell what happened*.
**Hmm. Thank you for your response Karin. I took a peek at some of the signs & symptoms of bipolar disorder and I really think the doctors were spot-on in their diagnosis of ADHD. Fortunately, or unfortunately really, she is a text-book case. I'm leaning towards this depression being either a side effect of her medication or maybe something else she hasn't opened up to me about. No matter what the cause, I've scheduled the first appt. and we're looking into it. Thanks again!
**Patty, it's hard to say, really. It's definitely been since she started the medication, but we've had so much going on that happened around the same time. My husband has been stationed in another country for going on 2 years (he'll be home in 72 days). Her biological father is going through a very difficult time financially and has been neglecting his relationship with her (which unfortunately is nothing new...I guess the $$ part is, but the neglectful part is not). She recently told me she didn't want him to come to her soccer games because she's not "used to him"...she doesn't see him enough to want to build that relationship, which at 8, is very sad in itself. She seems to be a very self-aware little girl, she takes naps when she's tired, she stops eating when she's full...she just seems to be 'in-tune', you know? So when she said she wasn't happy inside, my mind went to her Adderall because she couldn't tell me WHY. Usually, if she doesn't want to tell me, she tells me she doesn't want to talk about it.
Thank you all for your stories, advice, and insight! We had her appt. this morning finally. We're switching her to Concerta, and we have another appt. in two weeks. I'm hoping this helps with her moods/depression. Awaiting referral to psychologist via USPS.
it sounds to me like the child might actually be bi polar. doctors these days are only too happy to decide a child is adhd, but adhd does not come with depression,a bi polar condition, however does.a very sensitive dispostion and a quick temper are again not a sign of adhd, but bi polar.
dont let the doctor put her on anti depressants without at least getting another opinion.
K. h.
I agree with Shira that you are making the right decision in seeing a therapist. Don't stress yourself out on what could or might happen and try to block out any horror stories you may hear. Every child and every situation is different.
Just love on her right now. Don't add to her stress, keep your worry under reign and wait for the doctor to guide you through it.
I have been there, my 8 year old ADHD/gifted son went through a very depressed phase almost 2 years after my ex and I divorced, everything just kind of hit him. He also is in karate and rock climbing, is devastatingly handsome for his age but prefers to read than go out with friends and often has that "loner" mentality. Talking things out with a non-biased third party helped him stabilize his thoughts and reactions. He also started keeping a journal which started as venting and horrible doodles and overtime has morphed into silly comics, creative poetry and amazing short stories.
The psychologist later told me my son was just very bright and was able to communicate his feelings in such a profound way that it seemed worse than what other kids his age go through when he was just better at expressing it.
Yes it may very well be her meds (adderall in many people causes something nicknamed "adde-rage") HOWEVER... my non medicated adhd/2e 8yo boy has a lot of the same struggles right now.
It's painful to watch, because I can SEE what's happening as he tips into hyperfocusing and looping into negative spirals... but we are (oh so slowly) beginning to tip the balance. It is HARD work. In a lot of ways it's harder than "the terrible threes" which is the last time he had a cognitive/emotional leap and integration... but in some ways it's easier. The harder is that he trusted me absolutely when he was 3... as an 8yo half of his independence seeking is the whole NOT trusting me. So it's very, very slow going... but we're getting a lot more "aha!" moments as something clicks.
((One of the reasons I'm avoiding meds with kiddo ... although the past couple months have *seriously* made me rethink the easy button from time to time... is that learning how to self monitor and pull yourself out of these spirals is something I want to teach before we give him the choice of meds or no meds. We only have that luxury because we homeschool. He can get up out of his chair as much as he likes unless we're standardized testing, and those are rare. But even being adhd myself, and having a strong edu background in ADHD it's sooooo hard some days. That ability to self monitor and to "yank yourself up by the collar" is one of the major differences between being bipolar and being adhd. Bipolar people have NO control over their mood swings, adhd people can learn how to moderate them to a degree... esp if they catch them early. Not that we can stop the swinging... but that we can stop a series of emotions in it's tracks once we swing into it. It takes a lot of practice, however.))
These "the world is ending" type spirals are a common facet of adhd. Our emotions are ALWAYS intense. Either we're intensely happy or intensely upset. Intensely excited, or intensely terrified. The RIGHT med mitigates these (almost but not quite bipolar) mood swings. Of all the meds I've taken over the years only TWO didn't. One made everything worse (one of the amphetamine group meds, I forget which, but I'm thinking it was dextroamphetamine) and one made me sick to my stomach whenever I was happy... so I learned to stay upset so I wouldn't feel like throwing up (ritilin... also known as metadate) So the fact that she's tumbling down the rabbit hole at any provocation tells me she's not on the right med for her, or not on a high enough dose. Either could be the case. If you up the dose and she gets worse... it's the wrong med. If you up the dose and your happy "take on the world!" child returns then it was just too low so she was getting sucked down.
It might be a med issue that can be adjusted or changed. Definitely see someone who specializes in meds and I might also recommend a neuropsychologist to assist in med monitoring. My experience with chilren on psychiatric meds (4 years in psychiatric settings) is that sometimes reducing the dose helps with the extreme symptoms outside of ADHD with additional different treatment to help manage the ADHD or switching to a new med starting at a low dose to increase if need be. If your daughter does have ADHD then a neuropsychologist can help along the way and hopefully prevent your daughter from being exposed to any unneccessary meds that either do nothing or confuse matters for throwing new diagnoses into the mix due to possible side effects.
I would try to stay away from antidepressants because 1) children are at a higher risk for suicidality and 2) there have been not scientific studies on the effects of antidepressents on children because of ethical reasons (social science studies aren't rigid enough). However, if they help your daughter then she might be someone who should take them...the goal is to get her well again:) With the right professional support there are great outcomes possible!
That being said, I'm sorry to hear of the distress you and your daughter are experiencing and hope you can find the right professionals to get things more stable! I have a great deal of admiration for the effort and care you have for your daughters experience and wish you the best:)
I'm glad you're going to see a child psychologist.
It's probably a waste of your time and energy
to try to predict what may or may not happen.
At her age, the probable method will not be talk therapy,
at least in the beginning.
There will probably be drawing/painting
and/or manipulating dolls that represent self, parent, teacher, etc.
Wait and see. There might be antidepressants.
There might be a change in the ADHD meds.
I think it's a GOOD THING that she has been open and honest
with you about some of her internal feelings/thoughts.
She feels safe enough to tell you what's going on inside.
There are children with these kinds of feelings
who are unable to articulate them and/or afraid to expose them.
Keep up the good work, mom.
I know I'm late but my son has ADHD as well and is also in GT classes and always has been even pre-meds. He's also told me that he "just doesn't feel happy" but doesn't know why. He also is a super sensitive kid. But even though he is gifted in some ways he still has a hard time dealing with his emotions (ie saying he wishes he could crush a kid who annoys him). His dr. told us that some adhd meds can bring out/make worse already underlying problems (ie tics, depression, anxiety). My son was on Adderall and we had to stop it because he started hearing voices (scary I know). His psychiatrist right now is currently dealing with his anxiety/depression right now and because he is so far ahead we're dealing with the ADHD in other ways. He curretnly takes Celexa for his anxiety. he also sees a therapist weekly who helps him deal with his anxiety and techniques to help him stay in focus. I don't advocate just throwing meds at kids but sometimes they are the only thing that works and the most important thing is a happy and healthy kid. Good luck. It's hard but there is light at the end of the tunnel, though it can be a really long tunnel sometimes:-)
PS my son just turned 9.
Do you think this mood is new since on meds? Or do you feel she has always has had a hard time feeling carefree? I believe your instinct is important.
I want you to know that I know of situations where ADD has been much improved with diet and environment. Allergies can be a contributing factor. Household cleaners, even diary products.
I would not jump to any conclusions. Start gathering information. You are a good Mom because you are being proactive in helping your daughter feel happy. You want answers, which is GREAT, but it may take time to really figure it out.
One note - gifted children are notoriously sensitive (to the point of diagnosable anxiety or depression) in a good many cases. Even WITHOUT the added stressor of a second diagnosis/difficulty self-managing the gifted mentality is A LOT for a kid to deal with.
Gifted kids don't develop 'balanced' - so not only will they have different levels of intellectual development they will also have different levels of social and emotional development, and usually they have a higher level of "self-awareness" (as you indicated above) but that can cause them to get MORE freaked out when other stuff is not right (like parents divorcing or deployment etc).
On top of that add an ADHD diagnosis and it can create some havoc on their little senses.
One of the things I did with my daughter (although she is not adhd, but has some anxiety issues and would say some things that really threw me) is giving her a way to appropriately behave when she felt a certain way. So, for your daughter when she says she wants to rip people up.... could she listed to a soothing song? or play a certain game on the wii (if you have one), or write a story where the main character has the OPPOSITE quality as the person who is frustrating her? So it validates that its OK to want to rip people into shreds but teaches her an acceptable outlet when she feels that way? That might also help her feel a bit more in control of her feelings if she knows every time she feels a certain way she can take a specific action to make her feel better.
good luck!
I really like Riley's answer. I have ADD (no H) and while I do take medication to help me focus, I don't take as much as is recommended because I have taught myself strategies to deal with situations I now recognize cause me problems. If you can start teaching your daughter now to recognize patterns and strategies to deal with them, it will help her AS MUCH as medication will. The same goes for bi-polar disorder.
There is an awesome series that Charlie Rose did about the Brain and this episode in particular, http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11113 talks about certain "mental illnesses" like bi-polar and depression and really makes a scientific case that medicine alone does not significantly help problems but that behavior moderation must work in tandem with medications and it will actually change the brain.
On a positive note, thank goodness she is talking to you! Also, how wonderful for her to be so self aware! She may really be open to the behavioral approach! Also, I'd like to add, no one can be happy all the time and if you can teach her to recognize when her unhappiness is the normal yin to yang and when her unhappiness HURTS, she will be far better off than most adults I know who expect happiness as if it is their right.
I feel for you and your daughter and hope for the best.
Shira has great advice. Good job getting help! I know several girls who are on ADD meds and they get adjusted and changed sometimes.
