Middle School HELP!

Hi J.,

I am so sorry.....your heart must be breaking! It sounds like you've tried everything that your extra time has allowed you to do. I've had a similar experience that I will share with you.........

When our daughter was a little older than yours, she started similar behavior. We tried all that you have done...to no avail. Then, one day, I couldn't stand it any longer, and I sat her down to "talk" with me. I began to cry immediately because I was so sad that I had to resort to taking everything away from her in order to get her attention. And it still wasn't working!!!

She told me that she was sorry that she was a "disappointment" to her dad & I. That is when I realized that she was depressed and couldn't pull herself out of it!
After talking about her teachers and sujects, etc... I was trying to leanr more about her "side" of her school. Then, I asked her what does SHE "wish" could happen for herself. She wished she could "start all over again".

I had to tell her that in real life, we are not always able to start over........but in our house we could try :o) I told her that some of our house & school rules would change, but we could start her out with an "A" in our home, and work from there. We spoke to ALL of her teachers, and the school counselor. The teacher's gave us weekly reports on her, and the counselor spoke to her weekly (or as needed). We only asked if she needed "help" with any homework, and not if she had it done. We tried to allow her to be as independent as she was before.

The grades pulled up for sure. She was NEVER the same student, though. High School, Boys, Band, Cheerleading.... she was able to do it all because she maintained her grades,but not to level that we knew she was capable of.

Today, she is 22, working and is going to Junior College. Just the other day during a visit, she mentioned she wish she could "start over" with her boyfriend.... She's really doing great, and I'm very proud of her.

J., it's very scary to watch your children FAIL. It's heartbreaking, for sure.

I hope something in my story has helped you in some way know how to handle your daughter. I am certain she will be fine, but it will take some work.

Good Luck to you!

~N. :o)

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I think your daughter's twin is living at my house??? My son is doing the exact same thing. What I did was call a meeting with the principal, his teacher and the school counselor. We came up with a plan to try and help. He is getting counseling at school, his teacher is sending me weekly progress reports and emailing me his daily assignments. His teacher has started a reward program for him. If he goes all week without screwing up, he gets special privileges in class such as chewing gum, using a calculator, getting up to get water without asking. Also, when he takes his tests, he must complete one side and bring it to him, he cannot go onto the next page until he does this. The teacher looks over his test and if he sees things wrong, he will make him go back and do it over. Once he fixes those, he can continue. Hopefully the school counselor will be able to get down to the bottom of things with her too. Just remember, she has to deal with social issues, hormones, puberty and younger siblings! My son has to deal with all of this. I do hope things change around for you. My son now knows that if he does not get his act together he will face retention and summer school. I think that was also the shot in the arm he needed. Good luck. L.

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I wonder if you might think about spending more time with your daughter and not being so punitive. You have a infant and 2 other kids and time must be tight but some one-on-one time with your oldest might go a long way. One thing about the Star Testing - my daughter, also scored really high, and I personally don't attribute it to her being especially smart, but the emphasis and prep that her teachers put into the test. I wouldn't base your expectation for your daughter on that test. Good-luck.

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Hi Janell,
I am a family therapist specializing in adolescents, and this problem is much more common than you might think. My suggestion may seem extreme, but I have seen amazing results with it, so I hope you'll give it a try.
At some time when you're all relaxed and not tired or hungry (such as right after dinner on a week night, or better yet after breakfast on a weekend, if commitments allow) sit you daughter down and say something along the lines of 'You know we have been very concerned about your grades. Really, though, they're your grades and your responsibility. We know you can achieve any grade you want, so we're going to back off. We're here to give any advice or assistance you want, but we won't be volunteering any more-- we'll stay out of it unless you ask.' Then do it-- I know it can be murder to watch your child ruin her life, as you see it, but it's her life, you can't live it for her, and the sooner you hand all the responsibility to her, the sooner she no longer has you to blame for any failures.
As I say, it's drastic and counter-intuitive, but I've seen amazing results with this.
Good luck!
As soon as I sent this, I remembered your mentioning your youngest is 10 months-- any chance she is jealous of him? Along with the above technique (but not at the same time, lest she see the connection) causually mention how hard you know it must be to have a baby brother who is now the center of attetion. You cna hardly overestimate the power of sibling rivalry, and this may be the root of the trouble.

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I hate to break it to you...she sounds normal. You are doing ALL the right things, stick with it. Spend some time with her that isn't about being a "cop", take just her to the store, or for an icecream. This is the time for her to push away from you but it is also the time when she needs you most. This too shall pass, even if it means grinding your teeth down to stubs. =) When they turn 21 (and I have five kids that have done that!) you will look back, thank God that you aren't there any more and miss it like crazy. Good luck. =)

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J.,
I am going to throw some options your way in case you should need them. Get her evaluated privately for depression, hormones (pmdd) changing, nutrition( off sugar, white and preservative foods) up her exercise to increase her endorphins because sitting on the bench is not getting her natural endorphins up or her natural dopamine and neurotransmitters and then she is stepping into the world of peer pressure where others will have other ways to make her feel good and of course you do not want her tempted. Maybe walk with her for an hour a day, or dance or ask her what her dreams are. I see you have a loving warm and big family ( bet that baby boy bounces joy into your heart these days) and nurture those sibling relationships. Start taking her as you can afford:) to colleges..where kids do have total independence but a lot of self responsibility along with it. Get her tours at companies that are attractive (google, etc, ad agencies are hip or a great teaching institution or hosptial, or theater, whatever her passions, to inspire her outside of her self imposed limits. Even if motherhood is her first and only dream, show her what it takes in a maternity ward. Ah ha, new baby in the house too, always a behavior shift with that. You girls, all of you need time to do girl things that baby does not do. Go out to Roseville at the New Fountains for lunch and hang out too. Go on a girls hike. Also, this is from one of the best behaviorists in the area, make it very clear that there are basic perimeters that are not altering, hw time, work time, sleep and make no exceptions as you have a schedule to maintain for yourself. If she sees a loophole, no motivation to change. Also, signs of improvement should show with limits within days but it takes 6 weeks for habitual change. Read into anything behavior modification while looking at her emotional needs and lastly, I have looked at k12.com just in case public school no longer serves our family and it looks amazing and it is free. Look at it just in case. I so hope you get something out of this post. It is sent with compassion and prayer.

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Sounds familiar! We went through this too. Your daughter needs to be accountable for her own work, yet know help is available when she really needs it and asks for it. One thing I found out after the fact .. and I don't think children realize this at the time it's happening ... was that the work was boring to our son. You might want to look carefully at the homework and see if it's just 'busy work' that the teacher sends because he/she feels pressured to give out homework by the school district. Also, you may want to evaluate whether too much homework is coming in on any given day, simply because in Middle School there are multiple classes and each teacher giving out homework adds up to a load that's more than a child should have to do. I figured it out this way... an adult is expected to put in an eight hour day on most jobs. So, a child who attends classes for 6 hours a day should not have homework that would be expected to take more time than adds up to eight hours work for the day. If they are getting too much homework, it may lead to them just giving up and being "lazy" about their homework as well as the lying you mentioned.

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Hi J. -

There could be a lot of reasons for your daughter not following through with her school work, and unfortunately, playing homework cop will only make your relationship with her more tense and her even less likely to comply/succeed.

Have her assessed for depression, anxiety, or compliance issues. If you need a referral for a good assessor, please let me know.

Best,

J.

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Can you pin point when the problem began? That might be a good starting place to figuring out why she lost interest in school. If you are pushing that hard and she is not responding, consider that she could be depressed. Kids don't show depression the same way adults do. If your son is the obvious favorite, that could be part of the issue. Negative attention is better than no attention at all. It could also be hormonal. Some girls do not do well with all the changes. I'm not so sure that coming down hard on her is going to help her in the long run if you do not get to the root of the problem first. You are a good mom or you would not be concerned.

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This is like dejavu, just 3 years later. My daughter did the same thing it came on suddenly it was the most difficult year of our lives. With my daughter it was a new friend that was VERY good at lying, so good we never saw it until a very bad incident that tore 3 families appart. This was a combination of things...puberty, changes in school, boys, friends etc. If I could go back I would have paid more attention to her friendships, talked more explaining why things are expected of her, take one day a week just for us (me & her)and have quality time letting her talk and me keeping my mouth shut and just be a good listener. This is a very difficult time in a young girls life keep the door of communication open watch her friends closely and since the only thing that bothers her is sitting on the bench use that to your benefit, explaine to her that her job for the next 6 years and past 6 years is to go to school and learn. It is her responsibility to bring home good grades, be honest, respecting herself and your family. Her reward will be getting off of the bench earning her coaches respect and your trust. This will pass but it will be trying but she will get through it and so will you...there isn't one easy answer on what to do, take one day at a time talk to the other girls and explaine as much as you can that they are just as important to you as their older sister but this is a time that she needs a little more help at this time...trust me they see it and will understand...take a day for them only and another for your oldest have some quality mom n' daughter time...letting them talk will give you SO much insight on what is going on in their little worlds. My prayers are with you and your family I hope something in here will help.

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I disagree strongly with Patti! I don't think punishment is the answer. You have had some interesting suggestions for what might be going on with your daughter. Peer pressure and desire to fit in are EXTREMEMLY powerful for many kids at this age. As a teacher, I have also seen many students with very high potential underperform. It's very common. Sometimes it has to do with boredom or not being challenged. I think there are also psychological realities in play beyond my level of understanding. I think with lots of love and support and maybe some supplementation of curriculum to keep her excited, she will pull through. Good luck!

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I completely agree with Michele E.'s advice. I'm sure your daughter is bright, but Honor Roll means B and above. Someone on the site once posted an article about focusing too much on a child's intelligence -- it actually can cause them to try LESS and do poorly. It was an excellent article and made complete sense.

I had homework battles with my oldest child, and I can tell you from experience that the child will win. My son was identified as Gifted and Talented (GATE) early on, and I had high expectations of him beginning in Kindergarten. Every year he performed more and more poorly. Kids have to have their own internal motivation. I say focus on the what your child does RIGHT and back off on the homework. Let the homework be between her and her school for a while, and just have fun at home.

A month or so ago I was up at my oldest son's college apartment. It was a four-boy mess, and my son's room was a disaster, with a mattress half out in the hallway and boxes and stuff strewn everywhere. Last year my son pulled off a C average, if he was lucky. As I was about to leave, I looked at my son, such a nice, pleasant guy, and I told him, with no apparent cause, "I'm proud of you." And I was. It had nothing to do with how well he performed. That was one of the best things I've ever done as a parent. Just being proud of him for being a good human being, not for his "performance." And you know what? So far, he's getting almost all A's. Coincidence? I don't know, but I think telling him I was proud of him did more than all the battles and oversight ever did. We'll see.

p.s. - Reading the other moms' responses, I notice that many of them focus on the middle school experience. If your daughter is in a school where 6th grade is middle school, I suggest possibly putting her in an alternative school. The charter school my kids went to allowed them to remain children through 8th grade, so they were not exposed to middle school b.s. at an age when they were too young to handle it.

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Hi J. L,

Ground her worse than you have before. No nothing. Sleep, eat, and do her homework with her. Ask her teachers what she needs to do, the assignments, homework, etc. And then do the assignmenst with her. Why isn't she involved in another extra curriculiar activity than softball? My 9th Grader plays competitive softball and also gets A's. Try to carve out sometimes for you or your husband to spend one-on-one with her and find out what the problem is. You already have too many kids at home with your seriously spoiled 10 month old, your words not mine!~ Maybe she just needs some attention.

"one seriously spoiled lil boy (10mo)"
You may have answered your own question???
Is your daughter jealous and in need of attention and this is her way of getting it? Afterall, bad attention is better than no attention, at least in a childs mind.
Also, is she now going to a "middle school" as opposed to a grade school. There may be new students or teachers who she is not getting along with, or is finding it difficult to fit in. Perhaps some time alone with just you anr your daughter is all she needs. Maybe you can do some "grownup" dates with her.
Good luck to you. I know it can be very frustrating raising girls (I have two).

Middle School is a very difficult time. Have you spoken to the school regarding what might be happening on campus that your daughter is n ot sharing. Not feeling apart because she gets good grades.

Also you said your 10 month old is very spoiled is your daughter seeking more of your attention from him from your other daughters? Just a thought.

Hi J..

Your daughter is my 6th grade son to the T! He has an A+ in PE, but C- through F in all other classes. I've met with the principle and guidance counselor 3 times and all of his teachers at least twice.

I know this doesn't help, but to hopefully put your mind at ease, they all say that most of their 6th graders are going through the same thing. Personally, I think 6th grade is to young for middle school. All I can do is help him daily or force him to get his homework done. Then he doesn't turn it in. But he wants to be on the basketball team and he can only do that if he improves his grades. I just hope for all of us it all works out in the end and they "get it."

It sounds just like what my older sister did. She would hide homework assignments under her bed after completing them. She was bored. She wanted attention, whether it be good or bad. As well, during the time it started she had been sexually molested by a boy at the friends house she stayed at after school. She lied to our parents about any thing and everything and she just completely went down in school. I would sit down and talk to your daughter. Tell her that you think that she is old enough and responsible enough to explain to you why she is lying and why she isn't turning in her work. Ask if the classes are too hard or too easy, take a look at the work that she hasn't turned in but completed and see if the answers are right. You may want to seek counseling for her. They may be something going on that she doesn't want to express to you or she may just need help figuring out why it is that she is acting like she is.

Good luck, my sister turned out well, though she took some detours in life she is now in college and plans to go onto a masters (she's 29 now).

She may be more than stubborn... she may need help. Sudden changes in achievement and engagement can be signs of abuse. Please work with a professional to help your daughter through this.

It may well be that your daughter's problems are not academic. If she is, as you say, very smart, and is doing assignments but not turning them in, and lacks motivation, she may be having a great deal of difficulty in school for completely different reasons. Perhaps you could sit her down and, putting academics aside, try to get to the heart of anything that might be troubling her in school... problems with a teacher(s), with other classmates, socially, an unresolved conflict... If you can get her to open up to you about what is really going on, the academics might take care of themselves. Good luck.

I wish we could eleiminate middle school altogether. My daughter struggled a lot during that time and it was hard for us to find positive things to focus on and reward her for as it was such a dramatic change from the elementary school years. She still reminds us that when she comes home with 5 A's and a B, that we ask her 'what's up with the B?" instead of praising or rewarding the A's. I think this is a time to sit down with her and work out some sort of contract. She can help to set meaningful limits, consequences etc. You know she's capable, she knows she's capable together, if you can work out some way to get her buy in to the process in advance rather than just reacting. This is a REALLY hard time for parents as well. There are big adjustments on both sides that need to be made as our kids get older. Keep the dialog open. Be willing to sit with her and wait her out until she talks to you and then REALLY listen when she does (that was the hardest part for me!) Stay connected, watch her TV shows with her, read teen magazines so that you can have something in common to talk about. Do some community or charitable work together to focus on others if you can. I am so happy to have survived the middle school ordeal but it was a really tough time for the whole family. Someone described this transition in parenting as moving from a managerial position to a coach. You want her to hear your voice strongly in her life and her decision making but you can't and shouldn't always be there to tell her what to do.
Good luck. Be consistent. You'll do great.

There have been many books written specifically about the middle school age and why many of our middle schools are failing our children.
I am not blaming her school out of the gate. Just consider everything she is experiencing right now: changes in school; increased workload; puberty and hormones; social pressures seem to double at this age; drama/emotions = everything is a big deal. Add siblings competing for parents attention when possibly she feels she needs extra attention, and you have a recipe for disaster.
I wish i had a good idea for you, but I don't. I actually teach teenagers myself, and it is sometimes startling to see what I call the "great divide." That is how I describe the major differences between students who succesfully navigated middle school and those who struggled. Many continue to struggle through high school as well, but some do catch up.
Here is the good news. Things could change. I had a rough 7th grade year, but by the time 8th grade came around I was back on track and back to honor student again. It may just take her a while to get on track.
If it is really bothering you though, or if there is still no improvement after a while, then just do what I plan to do when my daughters hit middle school - they are not going to traditional middle school. I plan to enroll them into an alternative school for those "dangerous" years. They will go to a Montessori or other special program. Then they can go to the high school they are supposed to go to with their friends, or we can see what else is available at that time. i have heard of this strategy working well for other parents, and I feel it will work well for my girls.
Maybe you could do some research of books on-line and find some to order about this problem with middle school students? Good Luck!

Well, this is hard.. I would take her off the softball team. If she doenst have the social aspect or the thrill of being at the games and practices, then that might trigger something (I played softball all through high shcool and college and know that it's more than just playng the games) I would also have her coach (if they are inclined)to be th eone to ask her leave the team. If she knows she is disappointing someone other than her parnets, another adult figure, the embarassment of her actions and the consequances might also be greater. GOdd Luck... HAve you tried having her talk to a counselor/therapist? There seems to be something else going on too! And Maybe ther is some jealousy over the "seriously spolied" little bt too? Iahv seen many of my oder daughters frined really resent and act our when the younger kid are overly spolied and babied.... If she sees you loving and spoling him and all she feels you do is yell at her, that would also contribute to her anger towards you (I.E., not caring what you do/think of her). I know we all love our kids VERY much..But spoiling one more than the others really doesnt do ANY of them justice....

It sounds to me like she's bored with the regular classes, I would suggest looking into getting her skipped up a grade or possibly some advacned courses she would get to attend if she does well in regular school.

My gut instinct is that something is going on at school and her way of crying out is to sabotage her academics. I did this in 6th grade as well when we had a male teacher who used to look down our shirts and FORCE the girls to give him a hug before leaving the classroom. My grades PLUMMETED. It was the only way I knew to get attention from my family, but I got the wrong kind of attention and it only made me feel worse. I didn't know how to accuse my teacher of wrongdoing when my family seemed to like him so much. Do a little investigation.

Consult a child psychiatrist or psychologist who can evaluate her for possible Attention Disorder, Inattentive Type. Sometimes bright kids with ADD can breeze through elementary school, but start having trouble in Middle School.

Hello Janell,

It could be hormones, jealousy of siblings, peer pressure...but I would tell her I was taking her off the team completely if I didn't start to see some improvement in attitude as well as grades. Follow through, and tell her you won't sign her up next year if it continues. As a retired teacher, it sounds like you're doing everything right. You may want to ask the teacher(s) for confirmation that homework has been turned in. Has she had a physical lately? After ruling out a physical problem, a doctor or therapist might get further than a parent. Good luck. N.

Two things that come to mind is talk to your daughter and talk to her teacher. Whenever my girls get behind, their teacher and I work together to hold them accountable. It is not just about you!!! Her teacher and you need to work together on this.

The second thought is talk to your daughter about what is going on for her without holding any blame or judgement, just curiosity. Puberty is a strange time, and daughters really need their mom's for support. My daughters are 12 and 11, and we talk daily! After school I always ask how things went. They usually say in chorus, "Good!" Then I ask, "What was good about it?" That's when they give me the stories. If they say or I sense something happened that wasn't so good, I will ask to hear about that too. There is so much they wouldn't tell me if I didn't ask! I also try to make time weekly to do a one on one check-in to see if there's anything up that they didn't want to share in front of their sister.

If your daughter won't open up to you, maybe she'll talk to a counselor. I have had great experiences with counseling for my eldest.

One last thought that just occurred to me, I find especially with my eldest who is 12, that I have to remember to point out her accomplishments and give her praise as well as the constructive criticism. It is called the "sandwich effect." Making sure to acknowledge the positive twice as much as you acknowledge the negative. In fact, my daughter's teacher just set up a reward system for her in class where she has a notebook that she receives stars and notes of encouragement when she does things right. The more you point out where they are doing the right thing and give that attention, the more they will do the right thing. If she's getting lots of attention for doing the wrong thing, guess what she'll continue to do...

We have also used a reward system at home that is co-created by the whole family when we've had problems like what you are talking about with homework and lying. It's called the "Reward Wheel" and "Consequence Wheel." We had a family meeting to set up the rules of what needs to happen in order to get a reward at the end of each week and after how many mistakes do you need to spin the "Consequence Wheel." We also decided on the possible rewards and consequences and made up our wheels with lots of color. You could use it for all three of your daughters. They would get a kick out of it! Check out the website: www.better-behavior.com

I will get better mom. Have faith! It could be a simple matter of trying to look "cool" or wanting attention. Sometimes, helpful reminders of how "cool" it would look to be making minimum wage and barely surviving as an adult because you didn't apply yourself in school is helpful too. Good luck!

I don't personally have any experience with this issue, but I have a friend whose son was very similar when he was a freshmen in high school. She resorted to sending her husband to school with him for a week. He would walk their son to class, go into class with him and "help" him turn in his homework, wait until class was over, then walk him to the next class, etc... After a full week of this, he got the message and did get a little bit better. My aunt also did this with my cousin, and she sat with him through every class and lunch and break until he started turning things around. I am not sure if it is necessarily the best thing to do, but seemed to work on some level for each of them. Good luck!!!
(I think the thought of me doing this to one of my kids would be enough to help motivate them a bit!!!)

Hi J.,

I read most of the responses and had only one other idea to add.

If you have not already, you can request a meeting with all of her teachers and the guidance couselor. At the meeting you can request that for the time being they e-mail you a list of the homework assignments for each week. Then you are more able to help her make sure all the assignments are finished. You can also then have a way to communicate with her teachers without having to nag her to make sure the assignments are getting turned in.

It might seem extreme but my sister went through this last year and did not realize how bad the problem was until it was late in the year and my neice ended up having to do Summer School to make up the work. She is also very bright and did great in school until last year, but was getting distracted in school by typical Middle School social stuff....boys, snotty girls, being too smart etc....

My sister swears by this system and has continued it into this fall and now my neice is back to getting A's instead of D's.

I hope this helps you,

N. :)

It sounds like you've given her the tools she needs and there is little more that you can do. She is at that age where she is become rebellious - we all go through it. I would sit her down and tell her that it is up to her if she does the homework or if she turns it in and she will be the one to live with the lifelong consequences of not working in school. I would begin an ongoing dialog with the teacher so you know what's going on on a daily basis and then tell her what the consequences will be if she doesn't do her work. At that point, I wouldn't harp on it at all. If the work is done, praise her. If not, invoke the consequence in a very matter-of-fact way. No lectures, no second chances. You made the decision, not you live with the consequences. Our job is to prepare our children for life and this is how life works - you make a choice and then you live with it.

Dear J.,
My daughter was the same way. Super duper smart, but lazy as holy heck if she wasn't interested in the subject at hand. She somehow got it in her head that if she didn't want to bother with a certain thing because she could see no reason for using it at any other time in her life, she just refused to do it. She lied a million times. Nothing I said or did made any difference. Then came the day she told me she was going out for cheerleading. I told her to go right ahead.
She went. And she was told in front of all the girls, in front of every one there, that she needed to leave because her grades did not merit her the privelege of trying out.
She was so embarrassed that she wanted to die. She tried telling me that they had no right to humiliate her like that and I said that she had humiliated her own self. You can't expect to be the crappiest student you can possibly be and then expect to be the captain of the cheerleading squad. Her grades improved and she kicked serious butt after that. Nothing I had said worked, but that little moment in time did.
My daughter is very cute, funny, gregarious and outgoing, but not turning in her assignments made her a loser. She worked seriously hard and never missed an assignment after that. That's all it took.

Best of luck and wishes!

Hi,
I did the same thing when I was in middle school. I wonder if anyone has commented on her being a "nerd" or "smarty pants". When I was in middle school, I noticed that the girls who were getting good grades were "not cool", they were "nerds" (those are the terms I used when I was in middle school). So I decided that if I wanted to be "cool", I needed to separate myself from them as much as possible which included not applying myself and doing less than average work. It could be something like that or it could be an ADD issue where she is having a hard time focusing and is forgetful about turning in her homework.
If you think that she is simply refusing then maybe she should have consequences---lose privalages or even threaten (or do) to go to a few of her classes to "help" her remember to turn in her work.
I hope this helps give you additional ideas of what "might" be going on.

She has to take some responsibility so I suggest you have a meeting with her and her teachers to work out a system like having them give her an assignment sheet daily that you will sign each night when her work is done then the teacher will sign that she has turned it in and she gives it back to you each night. If siftball is her only interest then take her out of it. I did this with my son in 7th grade and it worked well.

J.
I went through the same exact thing with my daughter who is now a senior. She would do her homework than throw it away when she got to school. We took everything and got her help with school etc... come to find out that having her in public school was the worst thing for her her self esteem forsome reason was gone and the kids she started hanging around with wouldn't good students so she didn't want to do anybetter than them. two years ago we moved her to another school with small classes where she wouldn't be lost in the cracks what it has made the biggest difference in the world she is a straight A student and everything about her has changed. We wish we hadn't waited as long as we did.