Lying? - San Jose,CA

I've read that up until age 6 kids may not understand lying. But I believe my 4 3/4 year old has a pretty good sense, and I would hold her accountable--but not to the extent I would an older child. What you describe is totally normal--no worries, and no consequences yet! Try not to give him an opportunity to lie (don't ask him a question that he may be inclined to lie about if you know the answer).

Abbie,

I have to agree with Page. Your son is only two and is beginning to explore his imagination. Don't be so quick to call him a liar. Children at this age generally don't lie. They tend to speak some form of the truth; albeit very colorful. Remember he is awed by most things as they are new and exciting to him and so some exaggeration should be expected. Additionally, he is just learning to communicate thus making it more difficult to tell you what he's see, heard, etc.

My advice, coming from a mother of four adult children with very vivid imaginations at that age, is to listen carefully to what he is saying, read between lines and learn to ask the right questions. If he begins to feel you don't believe him he will stop talking and/or telling about his experiences which could be very dangerous considering the world we live in.

For all you other moms that read all the books and listen to everything your pediatrician says try listening to your instincts, your mothers and grandmothers. They raised children without all the books and guess what.....you turned out to be a pretty descent human being. I'm not saying reading is not good as it can give you some perspective, but it is someone elses perspective. Don't put too much stock into what another person has to say about YOUR child.

PERSONAL EXAMPLE: One of my kids was diagnosed with ADD at the age of nine. What was the first thing the pediatrician wanted to do? Prescribe a drug. Against the advice of her pediatrician I refused to make that our only option. Instead, I researched and elected to make some changes. I changed our diets and created a schedule (chores, homework & fun-time) that was manageable for a child that age and worked diligently to help her gain the coping skills needed to be successful student and adult. She now attends an Ivy League University on full scholarship. My point: had I listened to the doctor she would have been on meds for the rest of her life to cope with this issue when all that was need was some well spent time and perseverance on my part. Coincidentally, I took this approach with all my children and each of them attend or have attended some of the better schools in the country and all on full/partial scholarship.

I hope this helps you and other moms to make informed decisions when it comes to the health and well being of your families. Simply because some one has a degree doesn't mean they know everything...especially when it comes to YOUR child.

Have patience & good luck!
CM

I can't speak for the making up of tales about his friends but imaginary friends are not lying that is part of having an imagination which is vital for children. They are something children grow out of. I think his making up stories about his friends is probably feeling you out. he tells you this happened to his friend and he gets to see what your response is. He then has an idea of how you would react if he were to do something like that. I think this is pretty natural and I would not be worried about it at this point.
C.

The lying drove me nuts for a couple of years. I learned that kids don't truly grasp the concept of lying for several years. My son is now almost six, and I'm pretty sure he has had a reasonable understanding since about 4.5. The problem is that young kids get confused between what actually happened and their own fantasy world. It's a developmental thing. I would try to ask my son if something really happened or if he just wished it had happened, etc. I don't recall it doing much good. I was told by every expert I asked (pediatrician, preschool teachers, parenting expert) not to punish him because he didn't understand that he was lying and, developmentally, couldn't understand. If I really needed to know what happened re: a specific incident, I would ask another adult (preschool teacher or parent of other friend) what really happened, always stressing that my son had an active imagination. Understanding the difference between real objects (e.g., people) and objects that do not exist (e.g., imaginary friends) is not the same as understanding the difference between the truth and fantasy and what one wishes had happened. Even with adults, a person can convince him/herself that something is true if he/she tells him/herself the same story over and over to the point where it's possible to pass a polygraph test because the person truly believes his/her own story (I learned about this in a psychology and the law class in college). So, your son does not fully understand the concept of lying and probably won't for a couple more years. You'll know when he does, and you'll be able to talk to him about the consequences of losing trust at that point. You can certainly discuss the concept with him now, but don't expect to see much in the way of behavioral changes.

My son is 4. He has just recently started to understand the difference between lying and the truth. He has learned that he gets into more trouble if he lies than if he tells the truth about the dirt on the rug or the wet undies that mysteriously appeared in the laundry basket. I can see the wheels turning in his head and know that he gets it now - 6 months ago he did not understand - I could see it in his eyes. We've read story books about lying and talk about it whenever he does it. The Christian religion ( as well as others) teaches that little children are innocent and unable to "sin" until a certain age - I think it's 5 or 7?? Anyway - I slept through bible school. But I think there's a valid point that people 2000 years ago understood about the way a child's mind works. They cannot be intentionally cruel or dishonest if they're too young to know what that means.
This is a good age to start gently teaching him the difference - but don't expect the message to "click" for him for a long time.

I don't think kids clearly understand the differences between "lies" and "stories" and "imagining" and "pretending" until they are at least six or seven, and often, if the child has been traumatized, not until later.

Also, whether a child is able to tell truth from untruth probably depends a great deal on the context. Is the child in a tight spot, and under a lot of pressure? Is the child smart or stupid? (There are a lot of adults who couldn't tell the truth from a lie if their lives depended on it.)

For what it's worth, seven is the age at which a child's testimony can be received in court without having to demonstrate that he knows the difference between truth and lies.

If you start talking with your son now about telling mommy the truth, and about how important that is, and if you start trying to find situations that illustrate the concept of "lying" for him --- in a couple years you can start telling him the story of the boy who cried wolf, for example--- you will probably accomplish more than you would by punishing him for "lying."

Abbie -- he's only 2 years old!!!!!! You need to lighten up, girlfriend! There is no way he is "lying" at this age. That is called, "imagination," or "pretending," and there is absolutely NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.

And in terms of lying to deny misbehaving?? Once again, he's only 2!!!!!!! When he tells you "stories" about imaginary things, your response should be to listen with a smile, and say things like, "really, that sounds fun," or "wow, that must have been interesting," and similar sentences. Enjoy your imaginative boy!!!

This is normal. Don't take it so seriously. He's a baby. His brain is still developing.

And sorry, you other moms, take this advice from someone with much older kids. You all have no idea just how very very little your babies still are. The one thing I have learned from raising three very wonderful kids is: LIGHTEN UP!!!!

Hi Abbie, besides being a Mom of a girl 3.3/4 and a boy 2.2, my background is in education and early childhood development w/ a focus on the Waldorf philosophy. From my experience (and readings), children of this age has a wonderfully fertile imagination!! They can not yet, in some situations(up to preschool and close to kindergarten), distinguish between the "real" and "not real". Life is very much like a dream stage (we adults have it too, when sometimes immediately afert we awake from such a vivid dream that we don't know where we are or if the dream really happened or not). If children hear a story at school or book (or if they are exposed to TV) they sometimes repeat that story as if it was real (which for them it may be reason many doctor advocate for NO TV at such early age because children are so impressionable). By the way, this age loves to tell stories, so pay attention. If the stories that are being told are harmless, ask questions of what happened or just say "uau", "really" "oh, my, poor so and so" or "that is good that it happened", just whatever answer you find appropriatte for the story told. If the lie is about taking something that does not belong to him or something that you may see as harmful to him or a friend, then, it is time for YOU to tell a "story" of consequences for behavior he is demonstrating. Keep the stories short (due to attention span at this age), make the story about a boy (he can identify better) and what happened to him when he behaved in a certain way; make it simple but w/ disastrous consequences.
The good news is that it is a phase that most children go through. He eventually will grow out of it. Lies and taken things that do not belong to one can be more worrisome starting at 7 yrs. old or at grade scholl. But don't worry about that now... Good Luck!

Hi Abbie,
I saw your question I felt compelled to respond. I think we as parents would love to be able to cut our kids some slack whenever we can. We'd like for them to do everything right so we don't have to discipline them. Unfortunately, as we all know, this is not the case. Imaginary friends or imaginary stories about friends from school doesn't bother me much at all. Although, if you suspect the story he's telling you about a school friend sounds a little fishy, I probably would say, "now did that REALLY happen, or did you just make that up for fun?" and see what he has to say. It might make for an interesting conversation. However, anything that you know is an outright lie, like "no I didn't do it, mom", when you know he did, absolutely needs discipline. And at nearly 3 years old, he certainly is not too young to begin learning right from wrong and consequences of doing wrong. If he didn't understand consequences, he wouldn't lie about things in order to get out of getting in trouble. Yes he knows real from pretend for the most part by this time. But "pretending" has nothing to do with "lying", and he knows that by this point, also. So my suggestion: imaginary friends-wonderful and creative, imaginary stories about friends at school-start checking into that little by little because eventually he will need to know that's not just pretending, it's lying, and then flat out lying with no question-discipline. Kids are smarter than we will ever know, and if they are smart enough to lie to get out of trouble, it is time for the discipline to begin. Whatever type of discipline you choose, be consistent...every single time. Don't let one time pass without it, or he will see you don't really mean what you say. Then...the trouble REALLY begins! God bless.

I have to agree with Page --- at this stage your son's imagination is developing and you should both enjoy it. Children this age are very much in the "if you don't see it or hear it, then it didn't happen" mode. When they close their eyes, because THEY can't see you they think you can't see THEM.

I have twin grandchildren at home. One will push the other, then the second will push back. #1 comes to me saying "he pushed me", but when asked whether she pushed HIM, she will outright deny it. But you can tell she's not being evil, she just thinks if she doesn't say it you don't even know it happened.

They will reach an age where you WILL know that they know they're doing something wrong. And it won't hurt now to begin telling him, when he "lies" about something real (like did he make the mess?) that you know what happened and it's important for him to tell you what happened.

But don't squelch his story-telling and imaginative play. Kids don't get enough of that these days.

I had this problem with my son too. I found that he usually did this in order to get out of trouble for something that he knows he SHOULD get in trouble for. We finally started to punish him for the lies we caught him in and reward him for telling the truth. The trick was to make the punishments for lying WORSE than for being honest about messing up. He finally got the hint that lying only makes it worse.

Abbie,

When your child does or says something wrong, just correct him and let him know its important to always tell the truth and to listen to mommy and daddy. I don't think a toddler can do anything that should require much more than time outs and perhaps a swat on the bottom if they are doing something that is dangerous to them or other children.

Blessings....

From what I know about developmental psychology, kids this age do not really understand lying because they do not understand the idea that they can know things that other people don't know. That is, if you were not in the room, and he saw something happen, he does not realize that you did not see it too. The concept in psych is called "other minds": they don't get that other people have separate minds from their own (its also called "perspective taking").
So, I say don't punish this, as he won't even know what you are punishing. Perhaps he is experimenting with what we see as "truth" because he is starting to get an inkling of these concepts and is trying to understand ... he's a smart, curious guy.

Abbie,

My son is the same age as yours and we are dealing with this issue too- just not as much as you are describing. What is working for us is just simply to ask him, are you telling me the truth? if you know it is a lie, ask him again and 9/10 times he will tell me the truth. Our issue is about going to the bathroom-we are potty training so he will say he didn't poop-I know he did etc. Just don't make a big deal of it-- and encourage him to tell you the truth- we give a lot of praise when he tells us the truth.

Good luck!~

Molly

Hi Abbie,

We use the Bible to show our kids that lying is one of a set of commandments that God says we are to obey. The Bible also says that consequences are a natural occurence for those who disobey. So any lie away from the truth means consequences. ( in this case, the natural consequences would be that people will start not believing him)In fact, in God's eyes all sin IS EQUAL. Sin simply means "separated from God."He is so holy, he cannot allow sin to be with him.

Along with this commandment, however, comes grace. There is at no time that we can be perfect and sinless (only Jesus was sinless.)The reason God shows us the law of commandments is to show us how much we are sinners and how much we NEED Jesus to take our sins away, so we can be reconciled with God. Reconciliation with God means accepting Jesus and his free gift, and then loving him enough to want to change our behavior in the future,repenting, making a new start. Your child is still young but he can 'start' to grasp the ideas of this concept and as he grows he can grow in the likeness of the Lord.

We used the book "shepherding a child's heart" by Ted Tripp.

We went through a phase (or two) like this. we would just say "uh-huh" whenever she was telling a story, unless we knew it really happened, then we would talk about the right thing to do and how if the person had just said or done X then they wouldnt have got in trouble. As for fibbing about somethign we saw her doing, we would punish her and then talk about how her "time-out" would have been less if she had told us the truth. By the time she started preschool at 4, we didnt have any issues at all. We now occasionally get a story about so and so at school, but anytime her teacher has talked to her, she has always been truthful with us about it.

L.

Momma to a wonderful 6 yr old.

Your son sounds like an amazing creative little person. He has a wonderful imagination, possible a future writer of great stories. When he spins a yarn I suggest finding out more. Like the friend who got into trouble. Is this one of his fears that he has animated and is sharing with you? Look at it from his point of view,... was that scary that your friend got into trouble? Do you think it was fair? etc. The denying behavior that he has done is a different issue. He is an independent thinker and that is great as he is not even three! The art is to allow him to be creative and independent while still learning social graces. Sometimes it is hard to do as that creative independent spirit is worth so much more. GOOD LUCK.

If he is lying to get out of trouble then nail him. that is a serious offence. As for the pretend friends, etc that is normal at this age. go with it, and enjoy it but I tell my son that he is responsible for all imaginary creatures in our family. If they do something wrong, he will be the one serving the consequences, so he has to keep his imaginary friends and pets in line.