Love and Logic - Greeley,CO

Love and Logic by Jim Faye is fantastic. Some of his models are a bit extreme for me, but on the whole, is a great method. Even works on highschool kids! Also, I read a book called How to talk so kids will listen & listen so kids will talk by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. It was a very good book as well.

Good luck!

Love and Logic helped with my first sone but 1,2,3 Magic worked better with my second son. Every child is different. I really like both books. Good luck!!

My favorite discipline book, largely for toddlers, is Love and Limits by Crary. It's very short, and incredibly applicable to most situations. About time-outs, I'd encourage reading the book Time In, When Time out isn't working ... forget the author. The original definition of time out isn't to separate for being naughty, etc., but to help a child regain control by focusing on a different activity. Paraphrased, if the baby is shrieking, a quick "time-out" of running outside to scream is okay, or a quick "time-out" of quietly blowing feathers accross the table, would be perfect substitutions. Timeout is not intended to be a punishment. The National Educators Association categorizes time-out, used as punishment, in the same category as spanking and shaming--eeek. Enjoy your baby!

L., You have great days and years ahead !!! :)

I responded once, where we spoke about gifted children,
let me give you a link, as besides my own, because my kids were of the same kind :), there are many more good ideas:
http://www.mamasource.com/request/5331943175227441153
and wishing you lots of smiles into every single day of being a happy mom, L.! Take care, Dear!
M.

There is a good book called How to Talk so Your Kids will Listen and Listen so Your Kids will Talk. I think it is much better that love and logic. I have actually heard of two people whose kids have committed or attempted suicide while the parents were using love and logic. ( I have never tried it, so I don't know exactly how it works)

Our son is four and is really easy going, but was starting to really test the limits and we were coming up short on anything that worked. It was suddenly like he had built up the "terrible twos" and his entire third year, and then let it all out at once. As I began asking around, the Love and Logic method was what I heard recommended the most. We read the basic book, and also got a couple of the CDs from the library to listen to in the car (since that takes a LOT less time than reading!) and we decided to try it. We were very skeptical, but were shocked at how well it worked. At first I was overwhelmed with the idea of coming up with these clever and witty consequences like the guy in the book does. But, it doesn't even need to be that clever. We've simplified it to giving him two choices where we can live with either decision, and sticking to it once he decides. Now, when he does something he knows he shouldn't have done, he immediately asks, "Can I have my choices, please?" I've become much better at sticking to consequences now that I've seen how much good it does in the long run.

Anyway, we love it. It works well for our kiddo. But, I know everyone is different. Good luck!

Congratulations. Your son sounds like a fun kid and one who will be succesful.

I'm actually pregnant with my first so I can't speak first hand, but my mother is a librarian, was exposed to all of the books and felt that Love and Logic was the best and she used it with all of her 4 kids. (We're now all adults who are stable happy people). My sister-in-law also swares by it and her kids are the most well behaved children I've ever met.

I do think that you will meet some people who take the ideas in that book to crazy extreams, but isn't that true with everything? I read the book as soon as I got pregnant and I loved it, but you know what they say, everyone thinks they know how to parent before they have kids.

About time-out: Keep putting him in time-out (when he misbehaves, of course!). My kids used to laugh at me, too, (I have three: almost 5 year-old, 3 year-old, 2 year-old) but if you walk away while they are laughing and come back within the time-limit every time, he'll realize you are serious and time-out will become a punishment.

Love and Logic is an excellent resource for learning how to discipline and kudos to you for starting early!

Rocky Mountain christian church offers a course in the fall and spring. I would recommend you do that with reading the Early Years. Then you have a live person to ask specific questions. Totally ignore the laughing. try to be matter of fact and simple in your response...ah, oh, time for a time out for that behavior. Walk away. hen if he talks to you anyway but a nice way...sorry, I don't understand you and will talk to you when you are calm/ nice/ etc. I also used a peace spot which was like time out but for just the general crying anf fussing mess toddlers get into. They can come out of there when they are calm. teaches them to control threir behavior and soothe themselves quickly. that really helps with going out too as they just don't fuss in the store as much or as long now.

Hi L.,

As a facilitator of the Love and Logic Early Childhood Parenting Made Fun® program, I think it is a wonderful program that helps to create responsible and respectful children while allowing you to enjoy your kids more. I have used it for years in the classroom as well as with my own children.

That being said, as noted in some of the responses it isn't for everyone and there are lots of ways to love and discipline your children. If you want to read more about it I recommend reading "Love and Logic Magic for Early Childhood", which is available at the library. There is also a great audio CD entitled "Toddlers and Preschoolers: Love and Logic Parenting for Early Childhood, 6 months to 5 years." You can find it on their website along with more information: www.loveandlogic.com.

Feel free to go to my website, www.learningleaf.net, as well for more specifics on what the Early Childhood Parenting Made Fun® program covers as well as to find my contact information in case you would like to discuss the program in greater detail or have further questions.

Best wishes,

J.

L&L saved my family!! My oldest son (now 5) brought me to tears a lot. I spanked, spoiled, screamed, secluded....u name it and he always came out laughing and "carrying a bigger stick". I wish I would have known about L&L before all this - I think I made his temper worse. It has been 2 years since we changed our approach and we have our battles but I truly smile with my husband and look at Robert and think "bring it on". When we are stumped (like last week) we come up with a "plan" and call the institute (in Golden) and go over it with them. They are amazing! They have classes in Arvada and a great website. We get a weekly email to help us too.

If you go on their website they list all their information, we started with purple book and read the regular orange book too. I have their actual titles if you want them. My husband and I also have their CD's and listen to them everytime we go to pick up our boys from a "fun" weekend at their grandparents so we are ready to retrain them!

If you have any questions or more information PLEASE dont hesitate to write me. Good Luck

I don't know much about Love & Logic other than what has been said about giving choices, ect. I wanted to throw in there that once a year my church holds a Love & Logic class. I have never taken it but I hear it is really great (they provide child care for the class and I have always done childcare). If you send me your email address I can let you know when the next class is...it might be a good suppliment to the books you read and a nice way to get some questoins answered. ____@____.com

I would highly recommend Love & Logic's Magic for Early Childhood book. The book is also available on their website in cd format -- www.loveandlogic.com. We have been using Love & Logic with our 21 month old son since he was less than a year old, and both my husband and I use it in our professions with our people's children, as well. It works wonders. Taking a class is another great way to understand how to use the Love & Logic concepts.

L.,
The Love & Logic program is fun and practical. They've been in Colorado for over 30 years and so many parents and teachers have been trained and can you help you implement the ideas successfully. The libraries also have great CDs and DVDs - like Painless Parenting for the Preschool Years. If you can take a class, you'll learn the techniques even better because you'll get to practice week by week and discuss with other parents the results. I am a Love & Logic teacher and you can check class times on my website www.headandheartparenting.com.

One thing L&L teaches is to use the "uh-oh" song instead of timeout. It's a great technique that works better for some parents than time out does. It's all spelled out in the Magic for Early CHildhood book that you can get at the library.

Good luck!

I am trying to read L & L but some of the principles are a little hookie for me. Don't get me wrong there are a few good tips and there are a lot of things in the book that make me understand my children more. I am all about letting kids make their own choices and learn from their mistakes, but some of the advice is a little out there for me.

We have done Love and Logic but our favorite class was Growing Kids God's Way by the Ezzos and Bringing up Boys by James Dobson. We have taken something from every parenting class we've ever taken and used what works best for our family. Bringing up Boys was the most beneficial of any of the classes for me since I had limited experience growing up with boys but I have 3.

L.,

When parents talk about using "Love and Logic" it doesn't feel like love or logic to me. I thought I was alone, so I asked another Life Coach what she felt about it and she has the same opinion.

What is it that you don't appreciate about what your son is doing? What exactly is he screaming about? I would love to learn more about your son. He sounds like a very interesting young man. Please don't expect him to live by "your rules".

The world is changing all around us and these children have come into the world to assist us to see it. It is very frustracting for them to stand still and be expected to "behave" like nothing is going on all around.

With my Whole heart,
C. TLC (Transition Life Coach)

Principle six of seven of Transition Life Coaching

6. It is the responsibility of every parent to accept, nurture and embrace these special children for the gifts they are.

L.,
Our pediatrician actually recommended Love & Logic for Toddlers & Preschoolers when our kids turned 3 & 1. For us, that's when it really started to get complicated. Our younger child sounds a lot like your son - very spirited. I went onto L&L's website and then called their bookstore to see what they recommended. I purchased a package of 3-4 books and 2 audio CDs all dealing with toddlers and preschoolers. The CDs were great because I could just put them in my car and listen to them or listen while I cleaned at night. There are also L&L classes by private instructors and if you call the bookstore, I bet they can give you some names. Some people think the classes are better so that both parents go and are on the same page. It is important that both parents agree on the parenting philosophy for consistency's sake.

I don't agree with everything L&L recommends. In some ways, it seems extraordinarily manipulative. They liken it to "training" like you would do with your dog. For me, I find that notion rather offensive. Also, I don't like the idea of sending the kid to his room or putting him in his crib (although we do use time out in rare occasions to address physical violence). However, it gave us a LOT of tools on how to deal with difficult situations, how to talk to our kids and feel like we are in control of the situation. Both my husband and I feel more empowered and we have more fun with the kids. There are less battles. Our kids have really responded well to the idea of choices - which is really about how you phrase things. They love making choices; it has increased our son's confidence and cut down on a lot of tantrums.
I really don't believe in adopting any "method" 100%. You have to take the tools you can live with. We've combined L&L tools with others. I also recommend a book by Elizabeth Pantley called the No Cry Discipline Solution. It's a good compliment to L&L, and it is less about "method" and more about (1) diagnosing what is causing the problem you are having, and (2) giving you various parenting tools to keep in your back pocket to handle those situations.
Good luck!

Hi, L.! Wow--8-months old and climbing into his crib, huh? You do have an active boy! :) That's great! My husband and I have had good success with combining the principles of both Love and Logic and 1-2-3 Magic. I find that Love and Logic works well when I want to convince my daughter to do something (giving her the controlled choices), and 1-2-3 Magic works well when I need to get her to stop doing something or I need to discipline her a bit. Good for you for starting on these methods when your son is young--it'll make for good consistency and easier work for you later on!
Take care and good luck with Mr. On-the-Go!
S.

We found L & L to have some very good points that worked for our family and some were disastrous failures. I think the key is to concentrate on what motivates your son. Does he need control over his decisions? Give him two choices (both are ones you can live with), and once he chooses you're good to go. That was one of our l/l success stories. Time outs did not work for us. 1, 2, 3 did not work for me either. I would take the class and just remember that you even if you only take away one thing from it that works, it paid for itself. We all learn from trial and error....Good Luck!

I love the principle of love and logic of giving your kids choices and allowing for natural consiquences in life. Giving them freedom to have independence appropriate for each age. I started when my dd was a baby, when she went on solids I would give her choices of which food to eat at her meals. Two choices, both I could live with. Some of my friends laughed at me, but at that point I think it was more about me getting into the habit of giving her the choices than if she understood what she was choosing. Same with her clothes, two choices in the morning of what to wear, both already preselected by me. She is 2.5 now. She is a strong independent little girl, but she is also well behaved and responds well to choices. Tonight for example she tried to throw a tantrum at bedtime. Her daddy just changed shifts and is working swings now. He is normally her bath giver, story teller at night then I join for songs and snuggle time. She isn't enjoying the change. So she started this half whine half scream chant about sleeping in mommy's bed over and over so I said quietly you have a choice you can stop screaming and enjoy some time with mommy in your room and I can leave your door open, OR if you need to keep crying right now I can leave and shut your door while you have your cry out it is your decision. she kept going and I said since you have chosen to keep crying I will close your door until you are done and I turned to walk out as I stepped through the door and turned to shut it she turned off just like that and quietly said mommy, please leave the door open. I asked OH! are you done crying. Yes. Then you may have the door open. I love you. and that was the end of it. I know it was that simple because we have been consistent. I still get frustrated sometimes and slip up, that is natural part of mommying BUT knowing how to use the love and logic principles gets me back on track it is easy to go to her and say I am sorry I raised my voice or got frustrated with her and talk about it and move forward. My dad teaches love and logic classes, so that is where I have learned about it. I haven't actually ever read the book! *eek I know!!** lol but I really like how the process works. One more story for you if you don't mind...(if you do just quit reading haha) I had a foreign exchange daugther come live with me this past school year. One day she and a friend left me waiting for them at the mall for 2.5 hours. I was steamed, LIVID. ready to take away every priviledge she had. I had to drive home to get her cell phone which she had lost the priviledge of the week before for breaking curfew (we maintained the cell phone so that we could have parent power) so I could call her friend because I didn't have the friends cell number in my phone. She had been living with us for 5 months and had NEVER done anything like this. I didn't raise her so there was no precidence...I called my dad as I drove home for the cell phone. He let me vent and then he gave me love and logic advice. He told me that when I picked her up to tell her that I did not want to talk about it tonight and to cheerfully say Try not to worry. We'll talk about it tomorrow when I am calm. I said I WANT her to worry, and he said that is the point, if you say Try not to worry she will. He said even if you calm down, if she approaches you about talking about it today say, we'll talk about it tomorrow. Try not to worry, but you might want to think about what you think a fair consiquence will be. When we sat down I asked her why she thought I was upset. She told me--and then she apologized and was crying and said she thought that not having her cell phone for the rest of the month was a good punishment. Next phase my dad told me it doesn't matter if what they choose is rediculously easy, mostly kids will be too hard and you have to talk them back to something more fair, but even if they choose the easiest consiquence you ask, will that fix the situation so it won't happen again? and if the answer is yes, then say and if it happens again what do you think should happen? they give a consiquence you agree on. and you rejoice that they failed. That they learned about consiquences for negative behavior when it doesn't really matter that much. amazingly I was really calm by time we talked the next day. and we never fought. We had a great bonding moment that shaped the rest of our relationship. which was wonderful (in fact we are going to Korea to stay with her for a couple of weeks, and her brother is coming to live with us next year) I don't know all the ins and outs of love and logic but my dad has really helped me navigate the principles of it and it has really worked for us, so yeah, I recommend that you learn more about it and find the balance of it that will work for you and your family. For the time out situation, stating, I'm sorry you think this is funny, I'm disappointed in your behavior. When you are ready to talk about it come and get me. I always talk to my dd after time out and I don't say how long she has to stay. I put her in time out and tell her what behavior I she is there for and when she is ready to talk about it to come get me. sometimes it is right then and sometimes she takes a bit to think about it--but we never end time out without a talk about why she was there. the change over to the love and logic will throw him probably and he will probably rebel at first but consistency is really what they are looking for and to know what power they have, which is why the choices are so awesome, it teaches them that they do have control in their world. And since we give the choices, they are always ones we can live with which helps provide safe boundaries for them to explore how to be little people.

L.,
I think the idea of natural and appropriate consequences is great. Kids understand the consequences of their actions better when the "punishment fits the crime." It's definately more affective than yelling. Take what you learn and make it your own, though. Telling my kids they could pitch a fit in their room or sit normally at the kitchen table for dinner worked well and it makes sense. On the other hand, I would never withhold food from a child because of their choices. (I don't advocate skipping meals.) Whatever you learn, utilize the good stuff, but don't go against what you feel in you gut is right. Good luck!