T.A. asks from Novi, MI on February 15, 2009
Looking for Suggestions Where to Go: 3.5 Year Old with Multiple Sleeping Issues
My 3 1/2 year-old son has never slept well. It is getting absolutely ridiculous as of late. He fights going to sleep, particularly at night, most times for naps too. He gets up multiple times after we are done reading him books and tuck him in. Many nights it takes him 2+ hours before he falls asleep. He doesn't stay asleep long... he gets up at least 2-4 times per night, some nights as many as 8 times a night! Needless to say we are all sleep deprived, but my biggest concern is with his health. He doesn't listen to instruction well at daycare/preschool, he gets time-outs at home and privileges taken away a lot because he acts up so much. I know it is because he is sleep deprived, but I just don't know what else to do. I stick to our routine at night, I've laid in his room to see what shadows on the walls might be scaring him and moved things to try to avoid shadows, etc. Sometimes he seems really upset/scared when he wakes up like he may have had a nightmare, but can't explain it to me. Other times he doesn't give a reason or says he is thirsty. Many times he says that he wants to lay with me, but I try to avoid that so that he doesn't think he can do that all the time. I have told his pediatrician about this and I get the impression he just doesn't deal with these sort of issues. I am ready to find specialists to talk to and have them evaluate my son. Is there anyone out there can relate? Anyone that has found doctors that can help? My mother-in-law found Mott's children's hospital sleep disorder clinic when she was searching online. I plan to contact them. Does anyone have experience with the specialists there?
Thank you for all of the responses and advice so far. I thought I would mention a couple more things now that I have read what some of you are suggesting. My son does seem to sleep better when he gets to climb into our bed. Last night I tried giving him an extra pillow to elevate his head more... thinking maybe it is something medical with his sinuses, tonsils, etc. He only woke up once and when he did he was very upset. He asked if I would lay with him. I laid in his bed with him until he went back to sleep, which only took 10-15 minutes. My sister did the co-sleeping thing with her kids and said she loved it. I, on the other hand, have an extremely hard time sleeping when he wiggles so much at night. Also, I don't want him to be disturbed by the alarm in the morning because I wake up earlier than the kids to get ready for work. Not to mention, I know my husband would not agree with letting him sleep with us all the time. My 2.5 year old son sleeps in the same room with Tyler and he doesn't have a problem sleeping at all. In fact, he sleeps right through Tyler crying loudly most of the time. I thought that if I moved my 2.5 year old son in the same room with Tyler that it would help him feel more secure having someone in the room with him. They have a white noise machine in the room and there is a dim night light. We also have landscaping lights that shine a little through the window shutters. Some of you mentioned nutrition as a factor. While I think that makes good sense, and I know that my kids don't eat as good as they should; my other son sleeps just fine. I don't give them caffeine and they don't get things loaded with sugar in the evening. Thanks again for everyone's input :)
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R.H. answers from Detroit on February 16, 2009
Hi T.,
There could be several things going on. It could be diet, it could be that he does just need to be near you. I totally agree with what one of the other moms said about children not being 'wired' to be seperated from their parents.
I know of a pediatrician in the Ann Arbor area that only deals with 'special issues'. She no longer does general care, but deals with various problems. Sleep disruption is one specific area she does handle. I have heard her speak, and she is a very kind, gentle, and understanding doctor.
I hope you can find a solution.
Good luck.
K.N. answers from Grand Rapids on February 16, 2009
Go pick up some Melatonin. You can get it just about anywhere. Take 1/2 a pill, crush it into something and try that. I would NOT give him more than 1/2, and if you can maybe even give him 1/4 to start and see what happens. After about 2 weeks, don't give him one and see how he does with out. My son'ts doctor suggested this to me (he's a psycologist - if I spelled it right). It worked great for my son and helps him to get thru the time changes.
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P.R. answers from Detroit on February 16, 2009
He may have a poor sense of where he is in space. Occupational therapists and developmental professionals call that sense "Proprioception". (google it)
When a child doesn't know where they are in space from the inside of themselves (muscles, joints), they have to use their EYES to tell them where they are. Typically, knowing where you are comes PARTLY from vision, but not fully. You use your balance and your hearing, and touch, and proprioception, too.
When you ask a child who has no sense of proprioception, of where he is in space, to lie down and shut off his most relied upon sense, his EYES/VISION, you very often have sleep problems.
Go to www.handle.org and read some of the activities, particularly, "crazy straw". Some sensory integration activies from a neurodevelopmental perspective may help.
Also, a heavy cotton filled quilt, some bumpy teddy bears around him, a tent over the bed, something scented in a vaporizer all may give him input to his nervous system to allow him to know where he is w/ his eyes shut.
1 mom found this helpful
A.M. answers from Detroit on February 16, 2009
HI T.,
I feel for you....all mom's do! I have my own bias, which you'll see below. While you may want to consider seeking advice from specialists, I would also strongly encourage you to consider co-sleeping with him for a while. We have 2 boys, ages 3 and 6, and they both still sleep with us in our king size bed most nights, and have on and off since they were born. We all sleep well (except when they are sick - but that's true no matter if a child is sleeping in their own bed or not), and some nights the older one chooses to be in his own room and bed. Basically, they both know they are welcome to sleep whereever they want, in our bed or their own.
When I was first pregnant, I never intended to co-sleep with my children. But after lots of reading and research, it just made sense to me and my husband, who is very supportive of our family bed arrangement. I would encourage you to do your own research and reading about co-sleeping. A book called "The Contiuum Concept" by Jean Liedloff would be a good place to start. Evolutionarily speaking, babies and young children aren't "wired" to sleep alone, isolated from their mother or siblings. Children do have different sleep cycles and patterns from adults, and it's important we understand that fully before we assume there is something wrong when they wake up so often. It's natural and normal. We've never let them cry it out -- which has meant less sleep for us -- but in the long run, it believe it's been well worth it.
Both our boys fall asleep well on their own, and love to sleep next to each other, but aren't dependent on it. They are well adjusted and self-confident young boys. Sure, I would love to have a little more room in my bed sometimes, but I know I am going to miss it terribly when they both move on to their own beds. Which they all eventually do. :) My husband and I both work full time, and sleeping next to them is one wonderful way we get to be with them.
It may be that you could both benefit from trying co-sleeping for a little while. He might feel more secure, and you might get more sleep! :)
Wow -- I didn't intend for this to get so longwinded. You can tell I'm a real advocate for co-sleeping. I do, however, realize every family needs to do what works best for them. Best of luck -- and remember the mama mantra of "this too shall pass".
A.
1 mom found this helpful
C.M. answers from Detroit on February 16, 2009
I would first look at his diet. Eliminate all sugar and be sure to check the lables of what he is eating. That high fructose corn syrup is in everything and can cause all kinds of problems. Remember the old wives tale about warm milk before bed...it's the calcium in the milk that helps to relax. I am not an advocate of cow's milk, but you could give him a calcium supplement about an hour before bed. The dose on the bottle is probably not enough. The FDA standards are much lower than we all actually need. You could also take him to the Alternative Healthcare Center in Grosse Pointe. This group has clinical nutritionists that work with all kinds of issues. He may have some food allergies or nutritional deficiencies that can be solved without a million tests and dangerous perscriptions. go to www.ahccenter.com and read the testimonials and give them a call. They are very friendly and good at what they do.
K.V. answers from Detroit on February 16, 2009
I know this may sound counter intuitive but it sounds like the nap needs to go bye bye. Some kids can do a nap when they are this old, but I cut the naps out early, not convenient for me, but they started to go to bed at night. Add quiet time at v nap time. My 3 1/2 yr old goes to bed between 7 and8 pm and gets up between the same time.
Couldn't hurt to try it. I heard that it takes 2 weeks for kids to become accustomed to not having naps. It sure would be cheaper easier than doing sleep studies, etc.
Good luck!
L.C. answers from Jackson on February 16, 2009
I can SO relate! When our youngest son was 2 1/2 he had a very hard time falling asleep. He would cry at night because he couldn't fall asleep--not with pressure from us! We took him to a specialist. This 'idiot' said it was our problem! At 6 we took him for counciling and someone finally recommended a medication to help him sleep, Clonidine. It was a lifesaver! Definitely go to the Motts Children's Sleep Clinic. I wish it would have been available 15 years ago!
G.B. answers from Detroit on February 16, 2009
If it were me, I'd have him sleep with me so we could all get some sleep. I'd eliminate naps altogether too. Consistency of routine is a good idea that you've been doing but it sounds like he's feeling very needy at night. This is far more common that you'd think. Many families are up a lot at night and there are husbands or wives who routinely sleep with a child so they can all get some sleep. They grow out of it eventually! Try to keep your sense of humor and don't make more out of this than it is. I know it's frustrting, but some kids are just this way.
V.G. answers from Grand Rapids on February 16, 2009
My cousin has had a lot of experience with Mott's Children's Hospital (although not the sleep clinic). It has always, and continues, to be great. What you should be aware of though, is that some specialist require a referral from your primary doctor first. You'll want to find out what, if anything, they require from your primary doctor. If Mott's requires a referral, call you pediatrician and see if they would give it to you. If not, then keep looking or keep pushing your doctor about it.
K.N. answers from Grand Rapids on February 16, 2009
Go pick up some Melatonin. You can get it just about anywhere. Take 1/2 a pill, crush it into something and try that. I would NOT give him more than 1/2, and if you can maybe even give him 1/4 to start and see what happens. After about 2 weeks, don't give him one and see how he does with out. My son'ts doctor suggested this to me (he's a psycologist - if I spelled it right). It worked great for my son and helps him to get thru the time changes.
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