Lets Talk About Sex Baby!.....

well, i think there's a substantive difference between a strong, healthy confident woman who enjoys sexual relationships because she's honoring her own libido and fully in charge of what and who and how goes on with satisfying it, and a woman who is depressed or insecure and desperate to do whatever she thinks necessary to trap some love into her life.
i have been both of those women.
i do think the paradigm is changing, and it's so important that we keep the conversation alive and active with girls and young women, so that they DON'T buy into antiquated cow/milk theories, or that sexual desire is somehow inappropriate for females.
khairete
S.

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It's my opinion that a man dating a woman who is not even divorced yet, is not looking for anything but sex. (Are there exceptions to the rule, of course. However, there is the rule for a reason.) I DO think many woman (and men) who have sex so quickly, don't value what sex REALLY is. It's sharing, it's intimacy. Well, it's supposed to be. I think it's sad that we've devalued sex to an act with a stranger. I DO think sex should mean more then that. It should mean more then a little score, because it feels good. I DO think it's a little disrespecting to ones body and person, to give sex to someone who you don't share something significant with. I DO think it's sad that people give away the most intimate act a human can give, to someone because they look good. I think sex as a physical act within a loving, and respected relationship...is completely different. I think there IS a reason for so many unintended pregnancies, STDs, and sexual hangups. And, I think a lot of that comes from the disappointment and disillusionment that can result from sex being handed out like a business card. Do some people go on to have healthy relationships after sleeping with a person right away? Sure! Again, exception to the rule. Most are left alone (again.) Most people move on and don't share anything significant with a person.

I updated my answer to that question, to include I would say the same thing to a man. It just so happens, that it was a woman asking this time. YES, we Do have control over our bodies. The thing is, people rarely use that control. They usually do NOT control their bodies, and do whatever the heck they feel like doing, or sounds good at the time. That doesn't sound "in control" to me. That's reducing something to some feelings here and there, and justifying it with "empowerment" cliches. We love sex, I know I do. That doesn't mean it should become this thing, that's fun to do, so hey...let's give it up to just anyone, I mean it's fun...right? It has nothing to do with marriage. it has everything to do with placing VALUE on something that should HAVE value.

I guess I feel like sex SHOULD mean something. No, I don't feel like it can mean a whole lot with a person you hardly know anything about. And yes, I would say all of this to a man. I don't care about gender.

Just my opinion, and I realize I might be an island.

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For Alexis..
Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free (in reference to marriage). I like the pig sausage theory.... Why buy the whole pig when all you really want is a piece of sausage?

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Oy!!! I had the opposite be true back when I was catting around: marriage proposals left and right. Never got the cow thing.

I valued myself as much when I was a total slitch sleeping with anything that moved / could trip a man and beat him to the ground.... As I do now that I'm (deep sigh) frustratingly celibate for the foreseeable future. I'm just doing things differently.

The ONLY places respect fall into (for ME) are:

- Not breaking my vows (vows are super important to me, as are other lesser promises. For ME the vows are about me, not him. I couldn't respect myself if I broke them).

- Whether I'm tomcatting or waiting... That my choice be respected as the sovereign / CEO of me' own self!!! My body. My choices. My rules.

(Inverse is true as well. I've dated men who were waiting when I was catting. I needed to respect that or not date them. Ditto if I dated men who were catting when I'm waiting. Mutual. Respect. If we can't honor both Pur own and our partners choices... We shouldn't be together.)

Just the way I see it.

My body, my choice.
Your body, your choice.
Aretha Franklin.

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I want to participate here, but I don't understand your question, J.. What does "we do not control our bodies" mean? Maybe I'm just still asleep this morning.

By the way, I was just reading that post about the almost-divorced mother wanting to have sex. I have always been a person who did it because I wanted to do it. I know me, though. I don't get all caught up emotionally unless I want to. Sometimes--even with my husband--it is strictly physical...and then back to business. When I was single, I was the one saying, "Hey, wait a minute--we're not a couple; don't change the rules on me."

ETA: Sex is what it is for the person/people having it. As long as they are consenting adults, we don't get to say what it SHOULD BE for others. We don't get to say what somebody else's marriage should be. The sexual experience is a journey in that it is different for everybody and at different stages of our lives. Sex for me today is not what it was when I was 20...or 28...or 35. Hell, today's sex for me isn't the same as last year's sex. My point is that NO ONE can tell us what it should be for us. The most that our loved ones can do is to encourage us to have HEALTHY sexualities, and that will almost always mean going against someone's grain to get a handle on it. How many of us could have become good and confident parents if someone were standing over us directing our every move? There probably aren't many GOOD drivers who haven't had to slow down from a (relatively) high speed. This whole life is a journey, and where we are sexually at every turn tends to reflect how things are going. This doesn't necessarily include intercourse at every turn, but...our thoughts and feelings, confidence.... It's all connected, and the best that we can do for each other is help each other to be healthy individuals and avoid presuming the right to determine whether it is good/right or bad/wrong.

I've had one-night stands. You wanna know why? I wanted to, period. It wasn't a lifestyle, and some I would undo. That's part of life. I learned from those experiences. I never looked down on myself. I always used condoms and stayed up on my check-ups. I also stayed on the pill as back-up. Oh, I enjoyed my 20s...getting to know myself and a good handle on how the world works. Some stuff you don't recognize or know how to navigate through unless you've stepped right in it once or twice. Journey.

Oh, and PPS: I refused to commit BEFORE sex because I didn't even want to get that far without knowing if we were at least compatible.

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Suz T said it perfectly!
And for what it's worth, I had sex with my husband on our first date. I didn't know he was going to become my husband I just knew he was hot! We will celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary this November :)

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I don't think it is a case of not having control or not valuing yourself.

To me, having sex with someone you hardly know is just gross.

You have no idea if the person is actually healthy (people lie).
You have no idea what their hygiene is like, just cause they shower for dates doesn't mean anything.
You have no idea if they are seeing anyone else, maybe even married.

I just think before I get naked with someone and allow them to touch my most private and personal areas, I want to know a LOT about them first.

I am not a wait until marriage kind of person, I believe in taking the car for a test drive before you buy it.
I am not a old fashioned person.
But, I do get skeeved out by people jumping into bed with people they don't know very well.
And I am talking about women AND men.

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I'm with you. I don't see a correlation between having sex on the first date and not valuing ourselves. We're all adults. If someone wants to have six on the first or ten millionth date, it's her decision. Who am I to say it indicates how well she values herself, or whether the man will stay with her? I think it devalues women more to say that once a man has had sex he'll wander away. There's a lot more to a relationship than sex!

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Like I replied on that post, I think it depends on the person and their intent. If you want to get laid, then go for it. If you are looking for a relationship, then I think you need to be a little more cautious. I don't like the game playing of "holding sex" over a mans head. Like a dog wanting a bone (lol). However, I think the woman needs to be smart enough to know if a mans "intent" is to pursue her for just sex, or the whole relationship. Generally, there is "proof" that if you play hard to get, the man tends to be more interested. I think there is a HUGE difference between a depressed, desperate woman sleeping with everyone in sight and a happy, well adjusted woman that just needs a lot of sex. lol

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Well I value myself and have a high enough self esteem to know that (when I was single) I could say yes to anyone or no to anyone I wanted to be with no matter how long I knew them.

Call me shallow but after a horrible "lover" with my first husband I was going to make sure that my next husband was able to fulfill ALL of my needs.. mentally, physically, emotionally and sexually. I may have passed up on some great guys but when they were lousy in the sack I couldn't keep the relationship going. I knew if it was to work out every aspect of the relationship had to fulfill my needs or it wouldn't work out "until death do us part"... and Im not patient enough to be anyones teacher!

go ahead and attach any name you want to me... but I know I had fun in the process and (mostly) don't regret any of them! ;) For me it goes with the saying.. your past has shaped you into the person who you are today... that even includes sexual partners! And yes I value myself or I wouldn't have shared that part of me with them...

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I think by telling a man up front that, "you don't believe in sex until marriage". Does a couple of things in your favor as a woman...you quickly weed out the men who are only looking to enter a relationship for the sex. And if that is all they want great...I am sure there is a woman out there interested in the same thing.

But personally I was only looking for a man that I wanted to marry...I wasn't looking to just have sex or a one night stand...I was looking for someone who wanted to get to know me for me and not just for my body. I could have found sex just about anywhere...but finding a good man with good morals was a much harder feat.

I am not saying those that wanted to have sex before marriage weren't good men or marriage material...but I wasn't going to have sex with a man before I figured that out. Did my husband want to have sex before we got married...well, of course...what hot blooded man wouldn't WANT to...

To me if I told a guy I wasn't going to sleep with him and I never heard from him again...good riddance becasue I was looking for more...if he didn't run either I was just a challenge (which you found out soon enough) or he was really interested in me for me and like I said not just my body.

I wanted to spare myself all the pain I watched my girlfriends go through when they discovered they were nothing more than a one night stand or a challenge to be conquered then dumped once they did have sex with a guy. Because they were looking for a long term relationship or marriage and they guys weren't..

My girlfriends that just wanted sex...well that was that they had, no trouble finding sex...

It was a long term relationship that most of my friends wanted and I watched their heartache of having sex only to find out it didn't mean what they thought it meant...

You can decide to just have sex to have sex... Or you can choose to allow sex to be an awesome part of a long term relationship...yes, we as women choose and have total control over our bodies...maybe once and a while a hot a steamy sexcapade turned into a long term relationship...just I never saw it happen that way...

So I think it is all about what you are looking for...

7 moms found this helpful

Oh Lordy, if I waited until I was married to have sex I would be still be a virgin!

Sex is fun
Sex is intimate
It can be one or both at the same time. It can mean nothing or it can mean everything.

I control my body and what I do with it - and who I do it with. The only thing I have found is that with parenthood and age, I really have become more discriminating in the "who" part of the equation.

And I have way more to offer a man than sex - especially at my age you start to make sure that there will be more to the relationship than just sex, cause, we getting old and we know at same point the sexy bits are gonna' slow down. So we have to be able to talk to each other and have other mutual interests.

Ahhh, sex...maybe I will have some for lunch today.

7 moms found this helpful

i dont see the correlation between sex on the first date and not valuing ourselves either but I think enough men have heard otherwise so if I really liked the guy and wanted a relationship I'd probably hold out until the 2nd date J. because i wouldnt know what his thoughts were on the subject. although mine are you should whenever you want to

Bug I started dating my boyfriend when I was legally married and he wasnt J. after sex...well if he was it didnt work.... i was seperated for a year and had to stay legally married until our lawsuit settled from being hit by a drunk driver...i wasnt going to wait 2 more years after being with a crappy guy for 12+ years. she was with one guy for her entire adulthood, she shouuld be having some fun if she wants with no judgement from us or men=)

ETA (because noone else has)
Lets Talk about you and M.
Let's talk about all the good things and the bad things
we coul be
Lets talk about sexxxxxxxxxx=)

7 moms found this helpful

I believe that both men and women are fully capable of controlling their bodies and minds. I also think that there is a huge decline in respect for yourself and your body and that has led to alot of hurt and meaningless sexual relationships which leads to alot of problems later. My view on sex is that it should be special and with the person you love. I think sex is wonderful and an important part of a healthy marriage.

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I don't think the whole buying the cow / milk thing is being properly understood. The concept is that woman, while they certainly enjoy sex if they're healthy & normal, are more eager (generally) to have a lasting relationship involving marriage, kids, a home, mutual benefits/obligations to eachother, etc. Men (again using generatlities that don't fit every person) are more likely to want to be sexual grazers. They are less likely to have a strong desire to settle down, commit to another person and have a relationship where two people have obligations to eachother.

Further, our culture has promoted the idea that men should be perpetual adolescents - and should never grow up unless they somehow get roped into marriage, mortgage, kids and inlaws. (watch any sitcom, read men's magazines, watch a beer commercial, etc.) And even then they feel that the mutual obligation that married people have to each other (to help eachother, be there in tough times, stay sexually true, etc.) is a burden not a priviledge.

The truth is that a marriage relationship, if entered into with a clear understanding is rich - sexually, emotionally, physically, etc. But both partners have to have grown out of adolescence!

If there wasn't some truth to the cow/milk concept there wouldn't be so very many kids being raised without fathers. Notice the moms are still there carrying 80% - 100% of the responsibility of raising their children.

So, the cow/milk thing is actually directed to the idea that women have the control and often have a greater ability to direct a relationship if their guy is a "keeper". (bring fishing into the discussion) The sad truth is that when it comes to the ideas in the heads of many men (not all) there is still a double standard and there are girls that a guy will sleep with, and girls that a guy will marry.

In my mind the cow/milk thing is, if anything, a recognition of the strength of women not an indication of her character flaws...

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I was not taught the cow milk theory. Or I forgot it after the first time I had sex and didn't want to get married immediately to that guy.

I respect that many people solely reserve sex as a marriage act. For instance, I won't have sex outside our marriage. But that's not the only thing I have with my husband that we keep to ourselves. We have an intimacy we do not share with others. Sex is both bonding and recreational. I was much like Riley-pre-marriage in my younger years. Lots and lots of fun recreational sex in college. Lots of intimacy with my boyfriends and a few really great monogamous relationships. All on my terms. That is to say, I wasn't bullied into behavior because I was promised something by a man or a church. It's my body, I will decide what to do with it.

Did any of this prevent me from falling in love with my best friend, creating a beautiful awesome family with him, and committing to him until death? Nope. I wouldn't want a guy who saved himself for marriage. That just says "Uptight about my Sexuality and a Masturbation King" to me. ew. Is that a stereotype? Yes. So was my sluttiness. See how both sides can be proud of who they are in spite of negative stereotypes?

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I missed the post you were referring to...

But Ditto Suz T, to a tee.

5 moms found this helpful

I think you choose. I think women (and men) know what they want.

I have had sex on the first date - or maybe not a date - first encounter. Let's call it what it is. It wasn't a date. He was hot. There was chemistry. I never called him again. I didn't want him longterm. I'm not stupid enough to try and turn sex into a marriage.

When I met my (now) husband. We weren't attracted to each other physically, but mentally, we really enjoyed each other. The conversation was great. After a month of dating, we finally held hands and maybe kissed good-night. I was 24 and he was 31. He hated I was so young. He had been with TWO other women in his entire life. I can't say the same about men in my life. We are wired different. Maybe he's more like a woman and I am more like a man when it comes to sex. It's ok. After 3 months of dating, we had sex and NOT because HE did anything to make it happen. LOL

I knew there was husband potential there, not that I ever cared if I got married. Never wanted any kids - and now have 4. I just knew when it was meaningless chemistry and when it was affection. Those lines never crossed for me.

We DO have control. I asserted it when I snuck out in the morning, rather than making both of us miserable and trying to make up a relationship where there one was never going to exist healthily, so I could justify sex.

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Your subject line reminded me of the song "Let's Talk About Sex", J.. Now it's going to run through my head. I might just have to find it on youtube and sing it to myself!

Yeah, I'm one of those old fashioned gals you're talking about. What you say sounds great - equality of the sexes. That we all have the same urges - that we should respect that about each other and be accepted for it - that it shouldn't matter if it's the 3rd date or the 30th - the guy will respect the gal and not dump her because he's had his conquest and moves on. And maybe even that the gal shouldn't care because she just wants a conquest too and won't fall in love with him...

It would really be nice if it were like this (utopian society, maybe?) but so many times, it isn't. Certainly there are those who make it together in the long run, and obviously, those couples didn't hold against each other that they had sex so quickly. But the old double standard still holds sway for many more.

There are 3 main schools of thought that run through these threads. One is no sex before marriage, period. It actually shocks me to read it from some people who have admitted to having had it with their own spouses, including before they were divorced from someone else, and even lived with their spouses before they married. The ones they usually let have it are these moms without a partner who want desperately to meet Mr. Dad to marry and help them take care of their child. I guess it's do as I say and not as I do? Hmmm... I don't blame those young moms - they want a family unit - not just a bed partner. If they waited until their kids grow up, they'd be giving their lives up for their kids, and I think that idea is ridiculous. Our children are important, but no one has any business expecting a mom to throw away a chance at happiness just because she has kids.

The second one is the camp I'm in (touching on the end of #1.) I understand making sure we are compatible before marriage, and that includes in the bedroom. I understand these young moms wanting to get married again, despite, or maybe because of, having children. But I think that just like I have explained to my sons, we learn about the people we date first before the physical aspect. We try to figure out if they "fit" with our personality, get to know them, get to care deeply for them, before moving further. My kids' guidance counselor and I were talking about an incident on a field trip that happened years before, and she told me to make sure I talked to my boys about how important it was to get to know potential girlfriends first - if you sleep with someone too soon, we have a tendency to try too hard to make the relationship work, when it shouldn't.

Then there's the other view that anything goes. Too much for me - I can't imagine that, to be honest. I would not be able to stand myself if I did it. But that's just me. What can I say? I'm older now and long married and just wouldn't do very well with this kind of standard.

So that's my answer (too long, sorry!) to your question. Now I'm gonna go find that song...!!

D.

5 moms found this helpful

Wow, what a great question!

I can come at this from two directions, both of which I've had a great deal of experience with. We do, and we don't, control our bodies. And our minds.

First, we don't necessarily have total control over our thoughts or the behaviors which result, which often include the effects of too much of the "wrong" influences, or a lack of the "right" ones. Both can be powerful, and completely opaque while they nudge us along. So what we may sincerely experience as "total control," a more mature or experienced observer may see as dysfunctional or mistaken.

This was me as a child and young adult (and to some degree, is probably still me today). Sexually, I was tied in an impossible knot. Raised strictly conservative Christian, I had prohibitions against sex outside of marriage. I also had a step-dad from age 11 whom I adored, but he also had wandering hands. Even though I fended him off successfully, his interest sexualized me too early. I was also not permitted to date until 16, by which time all boys seemed to have lost any interest in this shy, tense girl. By the time I started college, I doubt you could have found a randier man anywhere. And I'm pretty sure you would find fewer people with a lesser sense of personal value, even though I was a "good" girl who followed all the rules.

(Aside: Rules are kind of a bumper-sticker version of life, oversimplified into a one-size-fits-all pattern that may not exactly fit most of us. They are needed and useful, giving us time to internalize the reasons they exist, and then we can more reliably trust our consciences to guide us.)

So, by 18, I was a sitting duck, an easy target for my first husband, a handsome, worldly Iranian man looking for a ticket to U.S. citizenship. I fell for him because I was desperate – for love, for sex, and for freedom from an excessively controlling mother (who was controlling partly out of fear of her 4 daughters become pregnant). I held out until a month before marriage. He was anything but monogamous, while I was faithful for 13 years, sexually deprived and tortured. That was NOT a model of self-respecting, mature womanhood, even though it was the model of "good wife." One of the best (and worst) choices I ever made was to have a one-night fling just before our final separation. It did not strike me as a good, rational choice even then, but it was SO necessary, considering my entire history up to that point.

I was 31 when I divorced that man, and during the next 2 years before I met my current, beloved husband of 30 years, I had a few brief affairs and one longer one (which might have stuck except the man was too young). At the time, my choices were rational, but not especially empowered. I still had too much to learn about feelings, needs, motivations. My second husband and I were sleeping together almost from the time we decided to marry, but in spirit, we were already a dedicated couple. It worked out. I think I was lucky, more than anything else. We were a great match, and have grown and learned so much together. I know without doubt that we are both faithful, and now it DOES seem like free choice, not societal or religious restriction.

This story is about sexual choices, but it can translate to any of the many decisions we are faced with. I've had a bazillion conversations with friends and thoughtful acquaintances about choice and free will – most of us who have been around long enough have begun to recognize than many, maybe most, of the influences on our thinking are invisible. Recognizing this one basic fact about humans has given me the grace to forgive SO many people for what appear to be terrible, self-destructive, even immoral choices. We can't control everything about our lives or even our own thoughts – why should we expect that of others?

(I'd like to add that MY forgiving others has nothing to do with changing them – it simply makes my own life calmer and happier, more understanding, and less freighted with thoughts and beliefs that can ultimately affect my own choices. I'm sure I still have a long way to go on this journey.)

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Wow, at 35, with my sex drive in HIGH gear....I'll have sex spotaneously some days! Screw the relationship, I'm horny and I want it!

Granted, I'm married.

But no, I don't buy into that anymore. Maybe in high school. But I'm a grown woman who has needs, and I know what I want when I want it.
The whole cow/milk theory really lends to the whole women as submissive thing. (which hey, if that's your thing in the bedroom...go with it!)
But in life...no way.

5 moms found this helpful

Great question J.!!!!.....Touchy subject,ain't it?
Yes, we control our bodies.

As women we are all taught the cow milk theory,yet we come to realize it's BS. We realize we love sex just as much as men do and would love to cat around, yet don't because of the cow milk theory and upbringing, morals, religion....whatever our particular generation instilled.

As women, we know what we want. Deep down inside or on the surface, we always know. If we want to sleep around, we will, if we don't, we won't.

At times, I find that there are alot of judgements passed instead of advice on this website. Or maybe it's just the subject of sex. Hmmm. Some mama's come on here with sincere concerns and alot of the responses are judgemental rather than advice. Perhaps the generation separation has alot to do with that. The 60 year old is not going to agree with how the 30 year old lives her life nowadays, depending on the upbringing she had. It could be the same, it could be different. Dads may not agree, depending on their age and upbringing as well. Maybe it's just the topic of sex and all those taboo questions.

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Umm.. Sandra Fluke, for one?

J., what I meant was getting at, (probably not the exact right question, and too political) was that she expects someone to foot the bill so she doesn't HAVE to control her body. She doesn't want the responsibility that comes with having that control. It's a free for all... which can be interpreted as having no control over herself. She chooses to exercise no control. See? Or am I just messed up in the head?

But like what Suz T was saying... there are different scenarios in which people are making choices...
Personally, I think the idea that women can make the choice to have sex in a vacuum (ok, not literally, folks-- I'm referring to all the extraneous things that precede it) is fallacy. Very few women can do that. We all carry baggage attached to it in some way or another... or at least most of us do. We are designed that way (to be emotionally attached). Doesn't mean we can't or don't enjoy sex. Far from it. But I do think that women (in general) have emotional ties with sex that men don't share to the same extent until later in a relationship. Just my opinion.

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I have a few friends who were living with their boyfriends and for some odd reason just couldn't get a proposal out of them. Any thoughts?

My mother taught me if I stayed a virgin I could have my pick of any man I wanted. A sort of spin off on the cow/ milk theory. I think that was more true in her day, not so true in my generation. She meant well, all our parents did when they wanted us to wait until marriage. They were on to something, they just didn't know how to sell it.

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Lol. I think to each her own. Primarily for religious reasons, my rule had always been "I won't have sex until I'm married." Things went great (I followed my rule) until I met my husband. I knew I wanted to marry him after 4 dates (spread out over about 2 weeks). I still waited to have sex with him until after I knew that HE knew he wanted to marry me, but that was still only about 6 months into dating. Now, that's certainly not to say we didn't mess around at all.

IF I have to start over again for any reason (God forbid), I don't know what my rules will be. I figure I'll come up with them if the situation arises and go from there. If I find someone I'm willing to break my rules for, then I will, but I'll still have those rules in place for general use.

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As women, we control sex. Men, in general, are willing anytime and can close out stress, kids, job, everything whereas women give the green light. We have control over our bodies as do men.

There are lots of discussions on here about not witholding sex from your spouse. Some people wait for marriage, but the majority do not. Does it mean you don't value yourself? I don't think so.

There are people who try to use sex to get into a relationship with someone. Obviously, they don't value themselves enough.

Sex is a part of healthy relationships. There is no magic number of dates/encounters/time that is right for everyone.

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The trouble is that there are guys out there who were raised believing the cow milk theory. They still want sex just as much as the next guy and will seek it out, but then lose respect for the woman/talk about her in the locker room etc. It can give a girl a bad rep.
The cow and milk theory is and has always been a myth. People still had sex outside of marriage in the olden days. It's just that back then there was the "You broke it you bought it" theory. (you know, shotgun weddings!)

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Ha!!! I could not wait to get my husband......he wanted me too!! I did not think he was easy or a slut. Ya he got the milk for free because I gave it to him! Been together for over 17 years. I think I fell in love the first time I looked at him. I let him know he was wanted!

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First things first can you explain the cow milk theory?

Ah, yes, okay. I have heard of this theory. Like any good theory, though, it is true in the abstract but can and does fall apart under specific examples. Put another way rules do have exceptions. So long as someone honestly and truthfully understand his or her own motivations, power to him or her. I don't see what's wrong with it if you think you know what you are getting yourself into (satisfaction, thrills, validation, a good time, etc.) and you don't mind what comes after it. As you put it, J., it takes two to tango. If one person holds one viewpoint and the other the opposite, there could be conflict come the next morning. I have known plenty of women and men who were weak types who would do anything for "love." Those people always fare the worst in these scenarios. Then again they are violating my basic starting point – being honest with yourself. These types of people are not being honest with the world in general let alone themselves so their relationships are always in a state of chaos.

For me holding anything over someone's head doesn't sound healthy. A relationship should not be constructed on the basis of a power struggle with the aim of determining who’s in charge and/or what each person’s worth is based on isolated events. Sex on the first date translates to a weak person with no self esteem? Really? Maybe his or her libido was in overdrive or he or she thought the other person was uber-attractive (an indirect compliment) or maybe he or she was looking to trap a lifelong partner (scary but it happens), etc. The point is not winning the alpha role in the relationship or in defining your potential partner after one experience with him or her. It is finding the middle ground and being happy with the series of compromises which constitute a marriage/long term relationship. If a person is so busy defining his or her future partner based on such flimsy evidence, I would argue the problem does not lie with the other person but within that person. Besides compatibility in my opinion is on all levels. If the sex is not what each person needs, then it's best to figure that out before the walk down the aisle/agreement to commit. I am not willing to settle for mediocre sex nor a mediocre father for my children. Test drive what you can and trust you know the person on what you can't test drive. Ultimately what goes on behind closed doors between consenting adults is none of my business. I am most certainly not going to judge what other adults do. If someone makes a hash out of his or her relationships, what do I gain by gloating over the ashes of that person’s mistakes – a false sense of superiority? We all make mistakes for a whole host reasons and I would rather not keep score.

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If you are single and want to have sex with Tom Dick and Harry, by all means use some protection and go out there and go for it! People know who is hot steemy just for sex material and who is spouse material, heck not everyone out there wants a spouse, doesnt that mean they should never have sex. We control out bodies and if we want to lose control by all means go for it..(if we are single)

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You drive a car before you buy it. right?

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