Kindergarten... - Georgetown,TX

Personally, I feel sorry for Kindergarteners today. Five year olds have not changed but they are expected to do so much more. Remember the book "everything I Needec To Know, I Learned In Kindergarten." It is so true. You have two different views. You are both right to so e degree.

I think he needs a parent teacher conference, maybe including the principal too so he can understand what Kinder REALLY is.

He needs to go volunteer in the classroom and talk with the teacher etc about what the expectations are.

i agree with both of you.
coming at it as a homeschooler, i totally understand your husband's borderline scorn for the modern paradigm of kindergarten. once upon a time it WAS what pre-school is today, but somehow it's become the modern american perspective that kids must be rigorously and traditionally eddicated from the moment they can sit up.
however, since the two of you have (apparently) made the decision NOT to homeschool this child, he had better awaken to the realities of the american public school system, which is that kindergarten is an all-day academically-rigorous program with homework, high behavioral expectations, and severe consequences for taking it lightly. while i find it horrifying that the system can tell parents when and how often to take time with their kids, we have allowed this to happen, and you can indeed be legally censured if he decides to allow your daughter to take weeks off.
on the other hand, homework should not be a 'she and I' thing, it's HER thing. all you should be doing is providing a schedule structure for her in which she should be doing the work. but do the work she must.
i'm not a traditionalist in any sense of the word, but i do find it a little alarming that the two of you use the word 'fiance' but have a child together of school age, and yet haven't managed to come to a solid conclusion about your marital status or your parenting philosophy. i think that will end up being far more damaging overall than how to handle your kindergartner's homework.
i like that he's at least using appropriate language to open the discussion with you. take that and keep the dialogue positive and ongoing. y'all must work out your approach, and do it soon.
khairete
S.

I'd be miffed if my DH didn't think that K was important. I think that is the biggest issue of all.

You and DF may need to have a conference with her teacher. Talk to him/her about what your DD is doing, why the homework and attendance is important, and what skills she is building for the other grades. Your school district probably also has a list of requirements for K, what they expect incoming kids to know and what they plan to teach them. Our parent handbook is right online.

When my DD was in a summer program, we had to miss a week. I asked for work for that week and DD and I sat down and did it. DH was surprised at how much DD was doing and at what level. Sight words, numbers, letters, basic math...It wasn't "hard". But she does need to do the work. My DD usually has one worksheet a day, and it's not much, and I don't do it FOR her, but I explain it and offer guidance if necessary. I can't tell my DD to "clean your room" without a little guidance. No way could she have done the packet without some specific direction.

If your DF doesn't understand the standardized pubic school system, then he needs to get educated on it. You can't just take a kid out of school for weeks. Not only is it detrimental to her learning, but you and he can be taken to court for truancy, or she can fail and be retained. I for one would not subject myself to court for a few days of goofing off, nor would I want my child to be held back because I couldn't understand the basic concept of compulsory attendance. If he understands nothing else, he needs to understand that unless he is willing (and CAPABLE) of homeschooling this child, he will only hurt her if he persists.

Kindergarten is a foundation. You are not wrong. If Kindergarten didn't matter, then we wouldn't bother mandating it.

Bottom line, kindergarten used to be a lot different than it is now. Your DF needs to get with the times or your DD will suffer for it.

ETA: I see other questions where your DF doesn't like structure. He doesn't see the need to sit down at the table for a family meal and learn manners, either. So you go on without him. I see this kindergarten thing as more of the same. If he doesn't get to just do his thing, he doesn't seem to see the value in it. I think this is a deep-rooted issue that you and he need to address, especially if you and he are to get married. Your children need a bit of structure. No so much that they are smothered, but most people get up, do something routine, go to bed and do it over again because that's how the wheels turn. If the household is at serious odds about that all the time, then it is ultimately detrimental. You can decide to ignore it, but it doesn't mean the conflict isn't there and won't erode the foundation of the relationship down the line. Perhaps what you and he also need is counseling to get on the same generic page when it comes to the structural needs of a family.

A truancy officer will be dispatched to your home if there are too many absences. Maybe that will wake up your fiancé.

He was home schooled and it does not sound like he has much respect for the public school system. I taught kindergarten at a private school before my kids came along. Kindergarten today is actually what we remember of first grade from years ago. Grade levels have been "pushed down" so each level is more advanced than what we remember. Kindergarten is not all about arts,crafts and play time anymore...it is mainly academics with occasional artwork squeezed in.

I understand your fiancés desire for more freedom with your daughter...that is one of the great things about home schooling. But, that is not the path you both have chosen for your daughter. Since you have chosen public school then you play by their rules....school everyday.

Your attitude and involvement with your daughter regarding her education will make more of a difference in your daughter's perception of the importance of school than anything or anyone else. Don't minimize it in any way..or she will blow it off too.

Good luck and best wishes!

Re. the absence thing, there is a policy of how many unexcused absences before it becomes a legal offense. He needs to know that. It IS ok to spend some time with dad every once in a while. (weeks off, no - a day here and there for something special - yes.)

Re. the "it's just kindergarten" vs. "it's more advanced". You're both right. First grade is where things really take off. Kinder is geared toward getting ready for first grade - the routines, the longer day, etc.

School meeting so he can get the kindergarten routine/paradigm from the horses mouth. Not confrontational, just expectation related. This way, he'll know what's going on, you'll know what he knows, and you can re-boot expectations based on common knowledge.

Haven't read much but you need to take him to the school and have the teacher explain how things have changed.

Take him to meet the teacher. Have the teacher explain how important these things are. We got a letter from the school explaining how many absences are allowed before they called the truant officer. Does your school do this?

I agree with you, Kindergarten is MUCH different than when we went thru.

Your daughter is in school now. She's no longer a preschooler and she has homework to do. It's NOT optional because the point of homework at this age is to teach self sufficiency, responsibility, and study skills.

Mom, it's not for you to hang over her shoulder and ensure that she gets all the answers right. Homework is a tool for the teacher to figure out whether or not the things she's teaching your daughter are sticking. So it's important to help her to get the work done the best she can, but not to correct everything for her.

I'd stand my ground on this one. School is important. Family is too....but that's what weekends are for.

I think you're both right . . . you just have different paradigms. His homeschool life may be his image of the ideal education for his little girl. We all tend to gravitate towards what we know, traditional school or homeschool.

I'm a homeschooling mom (accidental) and I think a lot of what goes on with Kindergarten kids today IS ridiculous.

That being said, I also believe that when you are in Rome you do as the Romans do. You can't put her in a certain system and then buck the system. What is the point of that? That only puts her in the middle which is confusing for a child.

I would take him to the school to meet with the teacher, look at the curriculum, get a sense for the expectations, etc.

But I would NOT minimize his POV either. There is definitely more that ONE way to receive a wonderful education.

Good luck.

Have you actually showed him what she's working on in kindergarten? If he saw the work he would realize it isn't just "glorified babysitting."
And things haven't changed THAT much. When I was in K (back in 1973/4) we played a lot but we also had work to do. Even though we didn't have homework then we spent plenty of time learning how to write, and we did early reading and math activities too.
K builds the foundation for 1st grade when the REAL learning begins.
And what's the deal with him expecting her to take days and weeks off at a time for her to hang out with him? Doesn't he have a job, friends and hobbies of his own? If he needs that kind of constant companionship he should get a dog.

I'm with your hubby in this one, but I am homeschooling because 5 and 6 year olds should be playing! All the evidence shows that homework actually hinders learning, yet here we are giving it to 5 year olds.

As to your problem, I'd have a serious discuss with hubby about priorities and support. I'd try to find a middle ground. Kindergarten isn't that important, but if you are going to send a child to it, then you do need to participate.

I took my grandson to orienation for kindergarten. I was surprised how much they need to know.He was tested on his reading-he was required to read a book with no help. He need to do math-adding & subtracting. He need to know his full address & everyones cell phone & home phone numbers. He had to count to 100 & count by 5s & 10s to 100. He had to know how to tell time & tie his shoes. He left in tears & did not want to go back to school. He is now in a new school & loves it. His spelling words in kindergarten were words I learned in 3rd or 4th grade. Like you said, they learn the basics when they are 2-3 yrs old. Stick to your guns, just make homework fun. We used M&M to learn math & I got an old Dick & Jane book from the library to work on reading. Maybe Dad should talk to the school about what is expected this year & even next.

I know a mom that homeschools her children. She is college educated and actually teaches them but they only do school about 2-3 hours per day (although they have enrichment activities and trips all the time). She says homework isn't necessary in the lower grades but rather is to make the parents feel involved and show what their child is learning in the public system. She teaches to proficiency so when something is wrong, they fix it again and again until it's right. She's not distracted by 20+ other kids so she doesn't have to have them "in school" 6-8 hours a day. Makes perfect sense but does not minimize the importance of school or education. If his mom taught him that way, I can see how your SO feels homework itself isn't important; however, your daughter is not homeschooled and homework is required to reinforce what is taught and what is needed to be learned (her teacher is distracted by others and can't teach the way my homeschooling friend does).

Kindergarten is not what it used to be. Even if your daughter knows all she needs to academically for K, she is still learning the social aspect of school and homework at least helps start building study/work skills. The repetition reinforces the basics to give a good foundation.

As for missing time, show your SO the handbook that addresses absenses. Be sure he sees the homework info and get him to any/all parent teacher conferences and/or open houses when information is given.

As for homework, it's is ok to let it get turned in wrong. That's how the teacher knows a child may need some extra help in a particular area.

I think you should explain to him that this year is going to set the tone on how SHE views school and what habits she gets in to.

Granted, kids are not legally obligated to attend school until they are six years old and in 1st grade. Kindergarten really is optional at age 5. But, if he gets her into the habot of missing school simply because she doesn't want to go, that's going to carry over into next year. And then he may very well find himself in front of the School Attendance Review Board. Point out to him that the SARB is comprised of school authorities and POLICE! Yes, police officers attend and give you a good talking to about truancy. If she misses after that, guess what? You find yourself in court. Here, the MINIMUM fine is $450!

I hate to say it, but IMHO, this is a product of home schooling. Kids do not learn to be responsible for getting up and out the door, putting in a full day at school, and then doing homework afterwards. Home schooled children do class work for a short amount of time every day. That's the habit they get into - working short days and having much more free time than pretty much anyone else.

I think you all need to find a happy medium. You are both right...to a point. He may be a little too lax, but he is right in that she doesn't need rigid scheduling with school at this point.

I think a day here and there is fine for a special trip. I have taken my kids out for a week at a time the last two years for trips. They learned more on the trips than they would have sitting in class. They filled out jounrals and brought with them packs on work to do on vacation.

HOWEVER - he needs to understand the importance of school and teaching kids the importance of school and being there most of the time early on is essential. I was allowed to stay home whenever I wanted growing up basically...luckily that wore off before I started working!

So maybe tell him that a special day here and there is okay, but not on a regular basis - and only a week if it's for an educational type of vacation that you both agree on.

Sigh... It would have been so helpful if you two had talked about this kind of stuff before having a child. It might have opened your eyes as to whether or not you wanted to continue to be with him or not.

Not helpful at this point, I know. But now you have to deal with this issue head on. I'd take him to school with you for a meeting with the kinder teacher without telling him why you're going and ask her point blank to explain to him what kinder is about this day and age. Maybe when she talks about what all they are responsible for learning for first grade, he will understand.

Perhaps you should think twice about marrying him if he continues in his present course. Unless you are willing to homeschool, it sounds like you're going to have to fight this viewpoing of his for the next 13 years.

You're right. He's wrong. About everything.

The real importance about kindergarten homework is getting kids in the routine of homework. So when they get more serious, meaningful assignments, it doesn't come as a shock to their systems. And it's important, because developmentally, at 5 is when kids develop routines.

And you do NOT want your daughter labeled as the kid who doesn't do her homework. This sticks with a kid pretty much all through school -- it's a very hard thing to break. I know, because I was that kid. My mom (who was wonderful in every way -- this was a weird, unaccountable fluke) simply did not believe in homework and didn't enforce it. I had all kinds of academic and social grief, for years and years and years, as a result.

The thing I can't realize advise you on is how to get your husband to see reason. He seems pretty wedded to this belief. All you can say, maybe, is,
"This is the way school is. It works differently from homeschooling. Period."

I wish I could give you more concrete advice, since this is important. But I wish you the very, very best of luck.

I know she's young but - maybe let your LO decide how she wants to handle this?

If she likes school, which it sounds like she does, she can say: "Daddy, let's look at my homework for a while". She might be very capable of explaining her opinions on this!

It is not good for you to lean on her to do her homework, and it is not good for your fiancé to lean on her to NOT do her homework. Sit down with your LO - you and your fiancé together - and find out what she thinks about all of this.

I also agree that you and your fiancé should meet with her teacher together.

I would have him talk to the teacher to see exactly what all they do in a day and what they are learning. Kindergarten is so much more than "babysitting". And homework is counted in there ! As far as missing class - I know in our district (and I think this is Texas law) - they can only get so many abscenses. If she has too many they can try to retain her (I don't know that they can keep them back in kindergarten though) and she will be behind the rest of the class since they will be continuing on with the work. He needs to understand that this is not homeschool and is no optional.

He doesn't understand how Kindergarten works nowadays, for better or worse. I have a 20 YO who learned a few sight words in K 15 years ago, and now my 5 year old is learning how to read chapter books! Here is a link to a great article in a magazine: http://bellairebuzz.com/2013/08/kindergarten-these-days/
Have him visit with the teacher before he ruins her great attitude!

You aren't wrong. Schools are expecting more out of Kindergarteners now. Maybe you should take him to meet the teacher so that she can explain how important homework is. She can also help to make him see how important Kindergarten is and that missing days just because is not an option. In some states if a child takes off alot the parent can get into trouble. You are the mother so you need to just enforce your homework rules. If she has homework she needs to do it. Good luck!!

You're both right. You seem a little over board with doing everything just right in Kinder. While I do believe it's important it isn't Organic Chemistry either.

I think a healthy balance between respect for the expectations of Kindergarten and realizing she's only 5 years old is essential. My girls did not turn in every bit of "homework" in Kinder and we did occasionally miss a day of school for "mental health". They are now A students who take middle/high school very seriously.

She may want more homework now but she's just started her formal education. Try to strike a balance, to avoid burn out later on. At her age learning should be fun and interesting, never a chore. Sometimes putting the homework down and reading a book aloud or going for a walk in the woods can be far more enriching.

I sort of relate to both of you. Kindergarten isn't really a lot harder. All kids are NOT reading and doing higher math by the time they get out of it. Some kids are still learning their letters and numbers. They still pass. I do believe that the school is trying to help you guys learn good study habits for the future.

I would not give up an activity to do homework, I would not give up family time to do homework.

I would take a short vacation that included school days if I wanted to but I would not take one every month. I do think the parent is the one who should decide if a child stays home or goes to class on days they need or want to do something special.

We're planning a short vacation in the next month or two and both kids will miss 1-2 days of school then have the weekend. If the school is upset by this then I don't really care. It's our choice. If they are going to flunk or pass with the information they had on that 1-2 days and if they miss it they can't possibly pass then obviously that's the only 2 days of the year they have to go....

I also would want your daughter to start learning how to focus and learn how to study and do homework. I do not believe in homework and do not support it if the teacher is just giving it to keep the kids busy at night but I do think that reading is necessary every day.

I would not stress about kindy homework. Do it but let HER set the pace. Don't burn her out. Sounds like you're doing fine. Just b/c kindergarten has changed doesn't mean you have to or your child does. Kids need to play. Age 5 is not the time for strict academics.

A formal education, be it public, private or home, is just as important as food, shelter and medical care. I don't see how your fiance doesn't see that. I also don't see how a grown man has the time and inclination to hang out for days and weeks at a time with a five year old. Is he unemployed and looking for company? That's just sad. What kind of example does that set?
And you may not think being married is important, but legally and financially it's very important. Don't fool yourself into thinking it's not.