Issues

Dear J. -

Let's face it, most human beings, would love to be lazy and have someone else do their work for them! I'm sure your husband just wants peace and quiet in the house. What you need is a way to motivate your daughter without making noise in the process. Advance planning is the KEY! The best way that worked for me was to calmly sit down with the kids in a family meeting, decide on chores, and penalties for not doing them correctly. Then make a chart to track her progress, and when she does it right she gets to do her fun stuff each day - We only allowed 1/2 hr of TV per day after chores and homework were done, for instance - or perhaps a special treat at the end of the week - you know what works for her). You never have to yell or scream again! (Does a policeman yell at you while he's writing out a ticket? NO! He doesn't have to - just getting it is scary enough!). You can be dispassionate and get the job done without getting upset in the process.

She's a perfect age to make use of the free 'thankdontspank' charts on gomommygo.com. The work is basically done for you, you just need to print up the pictures that represent what you want her to accomplish, follow the tips and make her chart from there. Hope it works for you!

Blessings,

R. E, (mom of 7 kids - now grown ups!)

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Hi J.,
Hugs!
I'm going to give to advice that is going to be hard to follow. :)
DO NOTHING. Seriously. That's right! IGNORE that behavior!
Close the door on her mess. Let her pack her drawers full of dirty clothes. Ignore it and don't say a word about it. She won't sass you and your husband can't get on your case for being "too tough" on her.
You may have to do this for a week or two, until she runs out of clean clothes. Then, when she complains about having no clean clothes, just calmly (DON'T say I told you so!!) ask her what she needs to do. Don't get up to do it yourself. Let her figure out that if she wants clean clothes and a neat room, she will have to do what you've been teaching her all along. She knows how to do it, she just has to be "motivated" into doing it. Of course when she starts doing her chores,you will be available to support her.

It's possible that she's rebelling and that's ok. It's normal as you know. It's also possible that she's noticing the disputes between you and your husband on her behalf and she may be power-tripping a tad.

I know it's going to be hard to say nothing. Your daughter is a reflection of you and therefore you want her to be nice, look nice, wear clean clothes and be respectful. Believe me, I get it. I share many of your frustrations!

This lesson might be more of a demonstration lesson than a talking lesson. I find that I'm guilty of too much 'blah blah'. My lesson is to hold my tongue (so hard!!!! my tongue is like hamburger, I bite it so often) and be patient (pray a lot!!!) and eventually my child (and my husband) get with the program.

You have alot on your plate. You are doing a great job! This too shall pass.

Good luck and I hope this helps!
E.

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Hi J.,
I am the mother of two boys, 14 and 10 - so, I fondly remember the 7-8 year ages...and remember some extrodinary defiant behaviour that would drive me 'round the twist.
From what you have written, it seems you are getting a dose of it. My sense is that your daughter is trying to be both more grown up and trying to get your attention at the same time....and she is playing this our with the clothese because that is what you are focussing on. With my older son, it was his choice of what he wore - green shirt, purple socks, no jumper when it was cold...that sort of thing.

There are two things I would try to do at this time, and continue to do with my sons, that may assist you now. First is to link the consequences as tightly to the action as possible. Second, you need to say things once, maybe twice, before the consequences are acted on.
A simple example is if a child will not finish their dinner, then you can say 'ok, the next meal is breakfast.' and STICK TO IT. they are not going to starve, they will be fine. They will not be happy and will moan and groan, but if you stick to it, eventually they get that meal time is important and it is probably a good idea to eat a this time rather than go hungry. It is the same thing with the clothes.
If she does not put them away or in the laundry then they are not going to get cleaned and she is going to wear dirty clothes. If she does not clean her room, then she can't have friends over to play. That sort of thing. And then, stick to it. Try not to yell, just firmly let her know "If you dont put your dirty clothes in the hamper, then I will not be able to clean them"
Then, each time she does what you ask you can thank you -not over the top, but a really heartfelt thank you. "Thank you for putting your dirty clothes in the hamper! That is such a big help to me with being so busy right now!". Maybe even think about a reward system that if she does it, then you then you will do something just with her (park, go get a milkshake, whatever).
Now - for the hard part. You have to let this play out. She may wear dirty clothes for a few days or weeks and her room may be dirty..if you stick to it,then it will not be any longer than that. Once the consequences start to happen, and you give her the positive reinforcement when she gets it right then she will self-correct. Slowly, but she will do it.

I let my son walk around in the most amazing outfits...but then he would realise that wearing boardshorts & sandels in the rain meant he would be cold and wet - so he would 'self correct'. The trick for me was to NOT give him my jumper or try to fix it - let him sit with his bad choice for a little bit, and then be there to support him when he makes the right one.

I suspect she is trying to exert her 'older sibling' status and competing for attention with you being busy. Perhaps you have gotten into a pattern of 'negative attention', which for her is better than none at all. So, maybe give this a little think and see what might work for your family.

ps- maybe have your husband read this too..it would be helpful if he could support a different approach as well.

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I totally don't know if this is appropriate answer but let her put the dirty clothes in her drawer. AND than she can wear them to school in front of her friends who have CLEAN clothes who will probably make some kind of comment as kids do. Maybe this will change her ways. With all you have to do, don't fight the battle that can't be won (right now ;o) spend time with the things you can fix and that make YOU feel better. At some point she'll get it and understand what and WHY you were teaching her. Again, I don't know if this is appropriate for you. But instead of feeling frustrated with your daughter you can focus on enjoying time with the younger ones and your husband. GOOD LUCK> From a mother who's constantly trying to figure things out...and when I do, it changes ;o))))

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I think you are totally right. I have 3 boys ages 6, 4, and 4. Sometimes our house is like a boot camp, but when the kids get crazy ideas like these you can't let them think it is acceptable. Sometimes I wonder where the heck my kids get these ideas from. My husband gets on me too saying I am too firm with them, but if you let one ounce of weakness (for lack of better words)they will take advantage of it.

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At that age, we did a reverse allowance. We gave her a set amount and every time she disobeyed she paid a fine. She hated it, but it corrected some issues. There were some nights she went to sleep crying because the slush fund was pretty low.

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Hi,
Try lowering your expectations just a little, you will both be happier. However, it does not mean to let go of everything. Pick your battles. It sounds like the clothes are the biggest issue. My son is eight, he does the same thing sometimes. I realized he put his "cool" clothes back in the dresser because he wanted them to be available to wear...if they're in the hamper, he can't wear them again until laundered. Now I just think it's funny. Maybe she likes that blouse so much??? I don't know. What has worked for us is a chore chart. For every completed task, he earns a star, the stars are tallied at the end of the week, and he earns 25cents/star. Positive reinforcement always worked better for my son than negative consequences....and he initiates the task himself! Also, he has to figure out the math to get his allowance. Just remember to start with just a few, like three daily things that you KNOW she can do, you want her to be successful...then build from there.
Good luck!

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Hi J.

My two cents........

First of all, you and your husband are a team. You need to go out on a date with your husband and sit and talk this out. The minute your children view your outward disagreements, you're fighting a losing battle. Your children deserve to see you both working together, it's the best gift you can give them. If you have resentments toward your husband, you need to work these out with him and not take it out on your innocent children.

Your oldest daughter is only 7 years old. She is still very much a very little girl. Let her be. I understand we need to teach our children responsibilities, but they can be taught in a loving, nurturing manner rather than "hounding them". It's much more productive. To think that she has a personal vendetta out against you is silly and prideful. It's you and your husbands choice to have all these children, and just because she's the oldest doesn't mean she needs to have more adult responsibilities.

At this point, I think a reward system might be in order. You can be creative and present it as a game. Kids LOVE games! We used a reward system called "grace tickets". When our 3 children would do their chores or help out without being asked or were outwardly kind to one another and cooperative, we would give them "grace tickets". Every ticket was different.....some would say "stay up an extra half hour". or "go out to MacDonald's with mama/dada", or "it's their privilege to pick a movie for the evening to watch together"....There are numerous incentives! And way more positive than negative.

I say pick and choose your battles wisely. Find joy in your little ones....they grown up way too fast! Motherhood is an amazing amount of work, but there's no greater worth than this very special gift of giving life to another. Embrace it no matter how much you have on your plate. You'll feel so much better about yourself and your hubby will cherish the loving mother and wife you are.

A clean house is great, but a calm, trusting, loving, respectful relationship with your husband and children far outweighs any tidy house. Do you want to be remembered for a clean house or being a tender, loving person? You pick!

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You can let her go to school in the dirty clothes. Classmates will notice and will begin to tease which would solve it. Stop doing things for her. If she knows you will, why should she?
My 8 yrod went through a similar phase. I would pick up her dirty clothes off the floor, left them in a pile next to the washer but did not wash them. After awhile I had quite a stash and she ran out of her favorite outfits, she got the hint and does well most the time now. I've done this in the past with other things, shoes, toys, books, etc.
There is a book in the American Girl series that tells girls about hygeine, etc. You might want to check it out.
Another option is a chore chart. Get the whole family involved in various things to help ease your load. Your little ones can help do things like helping fold towels, sorting laundry by color, dusting and sweeping with a little broom and dustpan (it won't be perfect but will be better than nothing!) Then they will be in the routine when they are older.
Have you had a heart to heart with your hubby at a time when neither of you are upset over thi?. Men are fixers. Ask him for some suggestions of how to develop her self help skills.
With so many in your family, she may feel her room is the only thing she has control over. Perhaps offer to redecorate a little so she has her own special space. Explain the new stuff only stays if the room is clean, etc.

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J.,

I feel your pain. I had been experiencing this exact same issue with my own daughter (she just turned 9 a couple of weeks ago). She would do just about the same things - wearing dirty clothes, putting things in the bottom of her closet/in drawers/under the bed to "clean" her room, etc.

I subscribed to Housefairy.org - it is worth EVERY cent I paid for it. Even before I committed to paying, I used the ideas, and saw a tremendous difference in the way my children keep their rooms, playroom, and the rest of the house clean.

House Fairy allows HER to become the "bad guy" and takes away the burden of my husband and me nagging the girls to keep the house clean (as House Fairy says, "neat and tidy").

Just by logging on to housefairy.org you can get access to just a few things that will get you AND your daughter started. There are cute little video clips that will encourage your daughter to start cleaning her room TODAY.

The only thing that I do NOT do is leave glitter (fairy dust) in my girls' rooms, playroom, or any other room of our house. I tried it ONCE and it was a nightmare to clean up. So, now I leave little notes that I print right off of my own computer. I try to use House Fairy language, and I use the House Fairy font, and just type up what I want to say from the House Fairy, and then leave the notes.

If the rooms are looking good, then they get a nice note with a treat (I have given them just about anything you can imagine - for my 15 year old <who is too old to believe in the House Fairy, but enjoys getting a reward> it might be a new eye shadow, lipgloss, or bottle of bubble bath - for my 9 year old it might be a new toothbrush, cute beaded necklace, small toy, etc.). I get most of my treats for the girls at the 99 cent store, the dollar store, Wal-Mart, etc.

One thing that I have started doing for the summer is giving them a printed little "House Fairy Buck" note. It says on it that they can redeem the Buck for a small treat now, OR they can save them up to redeem for a bigger prize later. I also have a "treat sheet" printed up that says some of the treats they can save up for. Some examples include:

3 bucks = trip to the frozen yogurt place
5 bucks = lunch at Jack in the Box, McDonalds, etc
10 bucks = go to the movies

I have been using House Fairy now for about 6 months, and very rarely do I have to leave a note saying, "I peeked in your room today. What happened? I know you can clean up that pig pen in about 15 minutes. Why don't you set a timer and get busy?"

Sometimes, I include in my note exactly what they need to tackle - like make your bed, put your dirty laundry in the hampers, put your soggy towel on the towel bar in the bathroom, put your shoes back in the closet cubbies, etc.

As for the hygiene, I don't really have that problem, but my sister does. She suggests that you have a reward/punishment system for that, too. If she takes a bath, she can get a House Fairy buck, but if she doesn't take one within 48 hours of the last one, then she has to PAY a House Fairy buck. If she doesn't have one to pay you, then she has another form of punishment: no TV time, no art time, no whatever you decide.

Good Luck,
A.

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You do have ALOT on your plate, I also have a daughter about a year older then yours and we are in the same boat! The problem is that your husband is making a statement that you are really not the boss in this situation! He has to STOP doing that. I also want my daughter to grow to be a responsible young lady and to learn to respect what she has, but cant get her to keep her room/laundry clean! I am trying a chart that clearly displays each thing in her room she has to do before she can go outside to basketball or play on the computer or any of the activities that she wants to do after school/homework. Then if she does them all she gets a mark on the chart and in 28 days she will get a small reward, like the movies with mom and no brothers! I have been told that 28 days makes a habit and 28 days breaks a habit, I can only pray that we will make a habit in this time! I do not believe that you are being to hard on her or asking too much from her, she is old enough to pick up after herself and she is also old enough to understand that if she does not to her "chores" then there is a punishment involved and she will get the punishemnt. Try not to discuss this between you and the father in front of her, she needs to know that you two are a team in parenting even if you might not agree on everything. Good Luck!

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J.,

When I read your post, I thought that sounds like my daughter. It must have to do with the age, because I have friends that are going through the same things with their daughters in the 7-10 age range. Its tough to get them to brush their teeth, get in the shower, they're becoming messier and as you stated putting away dirty clothes. My daughter seems to be ignoring me when I speak to her about this most times which is extra aggravating.
My husband also started chastizing me for getting on her case. I finally sat him down and explained that I needed him to be more involved with the situation, instead of just standing back and critizing the way I was handling it. I had him start paying attention to the way she would totally ignore my requests that she get in the shower for example or to finish her homework, etc. He finally got where my frustration was coming from because I was not asking a lot. I think at that age they are totally capable of cleaning their room, putting their things in the hamper, etc. Besides, if you don't start getting them use to it at that age, then it becomes harder when they get older. So anyway, I finally got him more involved with handling her. Mind you I have two other children that keep me busy. If I asked her to do something once, maybe twice and she didn't acknowledge my request I would go call my husband and have him take over before I got to the point where I would get upset. Once he started getting more involved things got easier, because for one, I wasn't always playing the bad guy and he the good guy. She seemed to sense that Dad meant business and it was harder to ignore him although she tried at first. I started getting him more involved with the other two boys as well and it has helped reduce my stress and it gives him a better perspective of what I deal with.
If your daughter is overstuffing, I would try maybe having her pull out one drawer a week and organizing it better. Pull out all the clothes and make sure they all still fit, and fold them again nicely and put them back. I give her a bag that she can put the give away clothes in and they get donated and she also has a hamper that she must take to the laundry area once it gets full. Its hard work keeping them on track, but don't give up. Just make sure you find ways not to keep repeating yourself, because that's what makes you stress out. If she doesn't comply, then simply give her consequences and move on. However, if she does stay on track for a week or it could be less if she's younger, I for example, take my daughter to get a kids pedicure when the weekend comes. So don't make everything about consequences, there should also be rewards.
Good luck to you!

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Wow - you have a lot of responsabilities, and you must be wiped out ! Just thought I'd put my two cents in.

Your daughter sounds like a pretty normal 7 year old when it comes to cleaning her room etc., and your hubby sounds like a typical hubby, being blind to your efforts to teach your daughter good hygiene - he likely has a different opoinion altogether of what's important, but his opinion is based also on loving your a daughter.

Maybe you could focus on a few "zones" at a time and if she is able to keep a certian area clean she can be rewarded.

Aslso - for your own sanity, please try to remember not to take what your daughter does personally ! She is probably just distracted and in her own world, and doesn't think about about needing clean clothes, or about maintaining something you just cleaned.
So it's not that she expects you to do the work.

Good luck with everything !
Kasey

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I feel that you are expecting your older daugther to grow up to fast, her job is to be a little girl. I think having her help you will teach her what she needs to know about cleaning and being tidy. You feel that you need help because you are expecting a baby and you have a 3 year old, I agree you are overwelmed but that is not her fault. You and your husband decided to have more children, and that is wonderful, but I say make her your helper, and make it fun for her, or she may grow up to resent her child hood, if you expect her to do things like her clothes, she should pick up her toys before taking out more, but the oldest child is usually the gofer when she has siblings as it is. She is probubly frustrated and instead of learning to be neet and tidy she may turn out the opposite. Hope this is helpful. Good Luck. P.

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Prayer and a lot of persistance. Maybe you could have her make a chore chart and decorate it and then everytime she completes a chore she can "X" it off or use stickers. At the end of the week she earns something special (banana split night, a movie, or even an allowance). Also, maybe you could show her how to wash her own clothes or after you have washed them have her fold them and put them away. My daughters are 6 & 7 and they fold and put their own clothes away. If all else fails let her wear the dirty ones. She will evenually figure it out.

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yes that is a lot. if your husband has an issue with how you are trying to teach your daughter to do things have him take the time out of his busy week to do what you do all day everyday. your not expecting too much from her those are normal chores that can be understood by that age. maybe try a harsher consequince like telling her that if she doesnt start to put her dirty clothes where they belong your going to throw them away (you dont really toss them but wash them and put them in a bag in the garage or something). soon she will be left with with next to nothing to wear and maybe that will persuade her to be better about her chores. with the higene issue just try to tell her that unless she starts to properly clean herself youll do it like shes a baby. the sad part is that i dont think she will fully understand the room cleaning thing until your husband can stand behind you in your rules. it seems like he doesnt care about how her room looks and such and he needs to back you with this decision. good luck

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Okay---bless your heart! #1---you can only pick 1-2 issues at a time with any child. So for you it's laundry and ??? And that's it. If she does something else--you need to let that go for now. She does need to have a positive environment overall. And it's NOT expecting too much to put dirty clothes away--hygiene is enough said! So she does NEED to sort her dirty clothes--can you make a different system? Like make sure each time she changes they go in the laundry basket directly and not on the floor? I think I would even get confused if something's dirty or clean if I threw everything on the floor......if the laundry basket were in the laundry room for example and not in her room? I would definitely try something else with that.

But---so the laundry's sorted----but the clean clothes--it's her closet my dear--she can stuff her drawers, do whatever. That's a battle I'd fight another day.

Soooo....here's how I'd start--I'd sit down--not at laundry time--and explain what's dirty. "You wore it--it's dirty." end of discussion. Make her repeat back to you what you said. Time for sticker chart. After each day, the dirty clothes are in the hamper, she gets a sticker. After 1 week, she gets something. You set the boundaries--but it is time to reward the desired behavior. Ice cream out with dad? a small toy? But hopefully this will show dad this is what's expected and you'll BOTH be on the same page--but don't worry about properly putting away clean clothes right now. That's another year's battle!!

Good luck! :)

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It might be she is doing it for attention. It sounds like you have a ton to do...and she figures even negative attention is better than no attention at all. Pay more attention to her on other positive things that she does. Eventually she will come around once she feels your appreciation...she will want to please you after the praise you give her in other areas.

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She is 7 or 8 yrs old, she has about 25 % attention span, even though she is mixing her dirty clothes with the clean clothes, at least she is trying to pick them up. Routine is everything she will learn by having to do the same thing each night, maybe after bath she can help walk her clothes over to the dirty clothes box, At 7 yrs old, she is so young, maybe your taking your frustrations out on her, with all those kids you have, I side with the hubby on this, you sound like a crabby carole,she is only 7 yrs old two yrs ago she was five, just think if your already nick picking her at this age, I can't imagine whats its going to be like later on, you have a lot on your plate, Yea lots of kids, but its not your daughters fault.

Pick your battles MOM , reward her for a job well done, instead of complaining

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First off, it is pretty much a loosing battle when both parents aren't on the same page. You need to have a talk with him when you are calm and able to express to him why you want your daughter to be able to handle these simple tasks. Not to compare but my daughter is 5, has been getting herself dressed since before 3 and puts her dirty clothes in the hamper and puts her clean clothes away/hangs them up. She is up every morning by 6 (on her own - I don't need her up that early) and she is bathed if we didn't take a bath the night before, hair combed, teeth brushed and clothes on. None of this was expected of her, she's just always enjoyed doing this. Who knows, maybe this will all go away when she turns 8??LOL I hope not! You are not asking too much of your daughter but as I read "a little about me" I'm wondering if too much is being asked of you.. if I read it right, you have a 7 yo, 3 yo, 4 yo, 2 yo, 7 1/2mos and you are pregnant? I'm thinking that may not be right, but if it is - ??? Maybe you have an 8 yo, 4,2 and 7.5mos old?? Either way, you do have a lot going on and it doesn't help to have the other grown up in the family undermine you. This needs to stop. Your daughter knows that Daddy will tell you that you are being too tough. He needs to get on your side or he will have HIS hands full when she is a teenager! She is too old for you to be cleaning her room and sorting through her laundry. You are homeschooling, make this part of the curriculum, after all, life skills are very important.

Make a chore chart or something and get her started today! Take away toys/priviledges if needed. Have you ever heard of flylady? www.flylady.net (I think that is the site, it might be .com) anyway, click on House Fairy and there is a cute video your daughter could watch. Now that I think about it, this might be for younger kids. But just check it out if you haven't before. When I was first teaching my daughter to clean up her room, I wouldn't bribe, I would just help/direct her. During the night, I'd slip something under her pillow (something very small, note pad, fun pen, etc..) when she found it I would tell her, "Oh, my gosh, the housefairy must have left that for you because you did such a good job cleaning your room" Every now and then I'd do this just to reinforce it and make it fun but to this day, she will not go to bed with any toys on her floor, she seems to really enjoy picking up her room. My son who is 3 was harder to teach but when asked, as long as it isn't too overwhelming, he does it and when he is done he is always so proud of himself. So tell your husband, you aren't punishing her, you are disciplining her (discipline can be a good thing). She needs these basic life skills to be a productive member of society.

Sorry - I got way too wordy on this one! Best wishes to you!!
M.

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First of all, you are normal. Secondly, you and your husband need to form a united front - with whatever you decide to do. When there isn't the untiy, the children will always take advantage of the situation which only causes more frustration and friction in the house. Lastly, your daughter is very normal. My daughter has been taught in this same fashion and she is now 14. She has broken drawers and although I made an awesome organized closet for her... she abuses it and crams as much as she can. You have to pick your battles with this one. As far as age approrpiateness, she is old enough to listen however, she is not old enough to always do and unfortunately, kids get very lazy in this general area of clothes; putting them away properly, throwing them in the hamper when they're clean etc..all normal. Keep working at it - lose the anger though. She is a kid. I finally broke the 14 yo of clean in hamper/dirty put away stuff about 1yr ago. The overstuffed and hiding stuff, not so much. I close her door a lot, so I don't have to see it. When she wants something (like to go to a dance, party, game, etc..) only if your room is clean which includes drawers & closet! Good luck & God Bless!

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Dear J.,

I think you are asking too much of a girl her age. Personally, I would have her put all of her clothes in the dirty clothes basket each night. I would then have you review the clothes for dirty or not, because truly you will see stains that an 8 year old will not. She's just too young for this job. Then you can fold the clothes that are still clean and put them somewhere so she can then put them away nicely and neatly. She will first master this neat closet and drawers job.

Then, when she is older, more like 11, I would have her join you in the review and fold job. She can still then put the clean clothes away.

Then when she is probably about 12, she can do the review and fold job herself.

Then when she is about 13 - 14, you can teach her how to do her own laundry.

Again, I think she is too young to take on this kind of "detail" job. And, to be honest, our children have so few years to be kids that we should not try to give them too much work too soon. I believe their main jobs when they are young is to get good grades, develop great manners, learn how to relate to all people, and to treat everyone and everything with respect. The work jobs can come later.

This is just my opinion, but I hope it helps.

Good luck.

C.

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Sounds a little like she knows how to manipulate and run the show in your house and is winning. I highly recommend that you and your husband get some marital counseling, though. Sounds a little like you are the slave of the house and not entitled to an opinion. Maybe some counseling will help you and hubby to get on the same page. You should be partners when it comes to the child-rearing.

Good luck and God Bless!!

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First of all, you and your husband MUST - I repeat _ MUST be on the same page. This is divide and conquer time for her. Next - be firm, and take every piece of clothing out of her room except for for 3 outfits. That way, limited choice, limited opportunity to mess up. Then, she can earn her way back into having a larger choice of clothing - IF she takes care of the 3. Try this for a week or two - I'll bet it works. This is a concept from Dr. Phil.

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First and foremost, she is quite old enough for exactly what you are teaching her. Hooray for you to take the time in teaching and training. My daughter is the same age and it's what we go through over and over again as well. Second, find out what is bothering your husband exactly. One on one ask him what it is that makes him upset about what or how you are teaching her. Often times I find it's a matter of communication between hubby and me. I may feel he's upset because of one thing when in fact it could be something else. Example: maybe it's not what your teaching, but how you go about correcting her that bugs him. Or maybe its not this exact chore that is bugging him, but rather him feeling like you are overall too hard on her. It really could be ANYTHING. Just ask him sincerely and without accusations or anger. Then ask him what he would do. Good luck!

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Hi J.,

I feel for you! PLease take my advice w/ a grain of salt, cuz I'm still just pregnant with my first baby. I'm no expert! But here's my two cents, anyway :>)

You are NOT expecting too much. You are doing right by your daughter by setting expectations and sticking with them. Bravo! However, it sounds like you have a lot on your plate, and I bet that stresses you out. Do your kids often get to see you happy, relaxed and full of warm approval, or do you have so much on your plate that you're "cranky" mom? (I wouldn't blame you if you are!)

If your regular, everyday demeanor is tense, anxious, disapproving or frowny, then the extra dose of disapproval you show when reprimanding your daughter may seem like "too much." For all I know, you are the most lighthearted and cheerful mom in the world. But if you ARE "anxious mom," you might want to adjust your own attitude so that your daughter wants to please you--instead of feeling like pleasing you is essentially impossible.

Good luck! You sound like a very loving mom!

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J. - my only suggestion would be to make sure she knows exactly what clean and dirty is. This might sound obvious to us adults, but to her, it might not be clear! Maybe you can go through her clothes together when she takes them off for a while (maybe a week or two) and discuss stuff. You know, "Honey, these shorts have stains from the popsicle you ate this afternoon. They need to be washed." or "You only wore this T-Shirt for half an hour after school. I think we can put that back and you can wear it again tomorrow."
As far as your husband goes... Pick a time when neither of you are upset and tell him in a quiet voice that what he is doing is frustrating you. Ask him what exactly is bothering him and what he is trying to accomplish by cutting in or criticizing. Have an honest discussion - not a fight. You'll probably be able to work out with him how you can both contribute to a more peaceful environment and a more united parenting front.
I wish you all the best!

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Wish I could help with the husband part, all I know there is as soon as you get a plan to sit down and talk over your issues and plan.

As far as the daughter, her behavior is rather common. What I would suggest is that she may not be mature (compliant/obedient, whatever) enough at this point to handle so many clothes. If you were to limit the number of outfits that she can keep to 2 or 3 and require her to "turn in" what she has been wearing at the end of the day, you could gradually give her back the responsibility and clothing as she showed that she was ready for it. It should be explained to her at the start that you have noticed that she is having a hard time taking care of so many clothes and that you are doing this to help make things easier on her. (You will probably want to keep special clothes in your closet and have her check them in and out)

Best of luck! You have got a hard job

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I wish I had answers for you. I have the same problems w/ 2 boys. We are now doing a "circle chart" which the boys created. 1 big picture lots of little circles inside. When they do something really great or help w/ the chores around the house they get to color a circle in. When the picture is complete, we will reward them w/ whatever they want from the toy store or bookstore, new webkin or whatever....could be an allowance too. partner w/ her to get her involved w/ the decision. Hope that hel;ps. We're still in the process of the whole thing and it seems to be a good motivator. Good Luck!

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Don't be too hard on yourself. I think that at age 8 it's a good time to slowly introduce personal hygine as well as a little responsibility. Sometimes with girls that age you have to incentivise them with something. So I started by asking my daughter to help me sort her clothes by color, whites etc and rewarded her with being able to pour the detergent into the washer for me...she loved it! When I would find dirty clothes in the drawer with what should be the clean clothes, I would take everything out and tell her she needed to refold the clean and put them back into her drawer, then the dirty clothes would need to be put into her hamper and she couldn't leave her room until the task was complete. Then as she get's a little older she can start to learn what settings to put the washer on and how to load the clothes by pile. I stopped doing laundry for my son at age 12 1/2 because of the problem you are having and now he's 18 and is a functioning young man who can do and does all of this own laundry. Best of luck....just try and add a little fun to the learning process and it should help.

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You are absolutely not being too hard on your daughter. Children need to be taught responsibility at a very young age. My 6 and 3 1/2 year old children are expected to take their plates over to the sink after a meal and put their clothes in their laundry basket when they get ready for the shower. If you don't teach them resposibility when they're young, they'll never learn to be responsible.
If I were you, I'd either stand there with her when she gets undressed to make sure that she's putting her dirty clothes in the basket or move the basket maybe to the laundry room and put a lock on the door so that she doesn't have access to the dirty clothes after she takes them off. Or if the behaviour keeps up, you could make her wear the dirty clothes (gross, but I bet she wouldn't like it) to see that she doesn't actually want to wear them until they've been washed. Good luck!

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Well you probably already know this...but your Husband always contradicting you in FRONT of our daughter, is eroding any "respect" for you in your Daughter's eyes. She will not listen to you, with this kind of "example" your Husband is "teaching" her. I"m very sorry you have to go through this...I know it can be heart-wrenching...

Your girl is Daddy's "little princess." He is catering to her... he is showing her that she can do anything she pleases, he is showing her what a "man" is and will be to her in the future...he is teaching her that she has no boundaries or does not have to be responsible etc. She is going on 8 years old...and this is NOT a good example for her.

Have you tried just talking with her and seeing what is going on? Listen and talk with her, without judgment, without lecturing, just let her talk freely and see.... try and "bond" with her this way... my girl really enjoys when we have "chat" sessions like this and is brings us closer especially when I am so busy with my son.

Well, perhaps go on a "strike." As the other respondent said. Just let your girl go on with being dirty and making a mess...if she leaves her mess anyplace just pick it up and dump it in her room. DON'T do "her" laundry... don't clean up after her, don't cater to her. Just DON'T cater to it and the behavior. Just leave it a mess. If your Husband questions you about it... just say you are on strike. Say that HE can take care of it...since he refuses to "respect" your Parenting and this is what HE is teaching his daughter. So, you have relinquished your role as "maid."

Your girl is obviously not going to listen to you... at least for now. Nor your Husband. But...it is something that will evolve... try anything outside of the box. Not your typical "stern" methods.

My Hubby is great and will help, but he is busy and works and goes to school. Lot on his plate. But, sometimes he will wonder why I don't clean up, and "let" my girl go willy-nilly sometimes... well, I tell him "Your girl has decided not to listen to me today... she refused to do her chores, and she is just in a refusing mood today...SO I AM NOT GOING TO PICK UP AFTER ANYONE. YOU DEAL WITH IT. Oh, by the way, I'm not cooking dinner tonight either. I'm tired, I'm busy. You can handle it." I have not had to do this very often, only about twice...but it was at this point that EVERYONE in the house knew I meant business and that Mommy was fed up. THEN, miraculously, my girl and Hubby would then "remember" how it was when the household routines went smoothly and how everything was in shape...and at this point... THEY ALL GOT ON THE SAME PAGE... and TOGETHER, we all helped to clean up and cooperate.

Granted, this was perhaps an extreme blatant way to handle it....but that was my solution. I expect "teamwork" in my house...my Hubby too...but sometimes, they forget or get caught up in their own moods or business. After this example, my Hubby reinforced with my girl about how important it is that we ALL do our chores.... this is OUR home, OUR family, and she is part of the family....and we all take care of each other and respect each other.

Your Hubby and you also need to talk it out. Why is he so against you teaching your girl respect and basic responsibility? You both need to be on the same page about it... and provide a good role model for your girl. He is a Parent, a Dad... not just in title.

Well have to go now, but all the best, I know it's not easy...
Take care,
~Susan

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Wow! You have 5 kids aged 7 and under with baby #6 on the way? And you homeschool? When do you sleep??? :-)

From what you said in your post, it seems to me that the issue that requires your immediate attention is your husband's attitude toward you. For someone doing as much as you are doing right now, you should be getting COMPLETE emotional support from your hubby. If you haven't already had a serious, sit-down talk with him about this, then you need to do it right away. If you already talked to him and he is still thwarting your efforts, then you need to go to a neutral third party (therapist, clergy) to help you two find a common ground. He is doing serious damage to so many relationships - you & your daughter, you & your husband - by cutting off your right to teach responsibility to your children. I actually got angry when I read your post and thought to myself, "Well then let hubby try managing his daughter's wardrobe for while. I bet he'll be singing a different tune then!!" He needs to understand that a ship cannot sail with dueling captains. And he should NEVER contradict you in front of the kids - ever! Not only is it a dishonor to you, but he is making it impossible for you to be an effective disciplinarian because he is showing the kids that it's alright to disregard your opinion. If he has a problem with something you're doing, then he needs to talk to you about it in private - away from the all-hearing ears of little children.

As far as your daughter goes, I have to say that you are 100% right. A 7 year old should be able to put clothes in a hamper after she takes them off (my daughter's been doing this since she was 5), but she will never do it as long as your husband is standing behind you telling your daughter that she doesn't have to do it. You are not a maid or a slave. Our #1 job as parents is to TEACH. By doing everything for your kids, you are setting them up for failure. It's clear that you understand this and that you are a responsible parent. You just need to get your husband on board.

Best of luck to you and your big beautiful family and congratulations on baby #6!! I wish you a quick and painless delivery!!

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Check out www.flylady.net and the Housefairy that accompanies the website. I've read many great testimonials related to the Housefairy and I personally use Flylady with much success.
By the way, it's free.

Concerning your husband, that's a tough issue. He should support you/be a united front. I'm not sure how, but communication is always the answer.

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Maybe rewarding her with points, cards, coins or something tangible if she does everything asked of her? She can turn them in for priveledges - like sleep overs, a day at Disneyland, or whatever she likes to do.

We have done this since our first son was 3 years old and it's AMAZING. We don't have to ask him to get dressed in the am, etc anymore. If we do, he loses a gold coin. At the end of the day, we total up what he's done and we reward him with coins and deduct what he hasn't done.

The other day I asked him to go get his flip flops on so we could leave for TaeKwonDO. He went and put socks on and them came back into my room. I asked him where his flip flops were. He said definantly, "I don't want to wear flip flops." I calmly said, "I will not have you disobeying me. Go get me a gold coin and then do as I have asked." He did just that. No yelling, no whining, no complaining. IF he talks back, I asked him to get me another coin.

He turns in 20 of them for some time go-karting with Dad or if he saves up, then he turns in 100 for Disneyland.

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Your expectations are completely realistic, and under no circumstances should you cater to her. Sounds like she knows just what buttons to push, and that she likes to stir up drama between you and your husband. He needs to stop taking her bait, and so do you. You might also ask your clergy person to talk to her, I remember something about honor your father and mother?

During a calm moment tell her that these are your expectations and that if she chooses to ignore your expectations you will . . .(fill in the blank). I do that still with my 12 year old, the consequence are that she has to sit in an isolated chair, sort of like a time out chair - can you believe it. She has to stay there until she's quiet and I'm ready for her to get up, and then she has to go do whatever my request was. If she does not do it then she's in her room - minus phone, ipod, etc. until it get's done. There's no conversation, negotiating etc. Your husband must back you up, and you must be consistent.

Don't expect perfection from her at this age, and when she shows improvement shower her with positive feedback. Remember you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Word to the wise, if she just can't do it you might want to have her evaluated for learning disabilities. These are some of the classic non school setting issues that typtify some sorts of learning problems.

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My first instinct was "aaah, she's a little on the young side, lay off a bit"... then I read that you have 4 kids younger than that even, and I realize you need your oldest to start pitching in sooner rather than later for the good of the family and mom's sanity! You and hubby will have to figure out a way to train her that is acceptable to both of you (reward system of some sort, until the habit is ingrained). I come from a large family myself (6 daughters, but we are more spread out than yours)- mom was always on our case about chores but when there are so many in a household everyone has to pull their weight. My 2 older sisters still brag about how they were mopping the floors at age 6. They say this to needle my youngest 2 sisters who are just now in college and had it the easiest. They are twins and were babied by the whole rest of us. Plus my mom just had it down by then. Anyway, back to you- Just be careful you aren't putting too much responsibility on her just because she is the oldest, and also that you aren't being taskmaster, especially since you school them all day also. Sticker charts or something will make it a game, like others have said. Good Luck! Congrats on the one on the way too!

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hello,
your kids are fighting for attention and your husband is too. have you both thought about birth control? no disrespect is meant, but honestly, it needs to be thought of and quick. it appears that your household is organized but is it too rigid and perfect-like? is it like captain von trapp's household in the sound of music? so many young kids and with a 7 1/2 mo. old and a baby on the way. all i really can say is oh my gosh....
the kids you have need attention and so does your husband. is your husband a control freak? he may not be but the more kids you have the more he'll have to mellow out and lighten up a bit...to stay sane! he should start taking some of the kids to a daddy's mommy & me program with other dads. he'll learn a lot from doing that and perhaps make some friends too!

best, mff

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Dear Jen,

You are one busy lady! You said "(due to circumstances)" but then I read down further, and boy! do you have some circumstances!

I completely hear what you are saying though in regards to both your husband and your daughter. Thing is, the situation will not improve until you and your husband are on the same page. And believe me, if you two don't get on that same page soon, with the teen years just around the corner, and the next set of children coming around to a more independent age, the two of you , and the children are in for HUGE problems, not just nagging about dirty clothes.

Most parenting issues have to do with how each spouse was raised, and the expectations that come with that. You both need to sit down, calmly, not after another outburst, but in a reasonable manner and come up with a game plan that is workable for both of you. And if this means meeting him halfway, then that is what needs to be done, for the sanity of the whole family. The little ones ARE watching and hearing all of this, and similar patterns of dissenting behavior can develop with them as well. If you do not show a united front, it's a losing battle no matter the issue with any of your children.

Regarding the issue of personal hygiene, it should be pretty clear cut what expectations are: daily shower or bath, brushing teeth and washing face and hands....no compromising.

As far as the clothes are concerned, once you have worked out a plan with your husband, both of you sit down with your daughter in her room and walk through your expectations with her. Do these really need to be spick and span on a daily basis? Is a weekly cleanup the best solution? What are your expectations for the other children helping around the house? Best rule: keep it simple. I lebeled each drawer with a sticker: I had one drawer for all undergarments and socks (but not neat little piles) once drawer for shorts and pants, one for t-shirts, one for jackets. All daily wear clothes were wash and wear, no ironing needed. All socks were white and one brand, so matching was a breeze. All special occasion wear was hanging separately. Big laundry basket. Simple for my child, and simple for me!

In regard to common areas, everyone can help out daily. The 3 and 4yr and 2 yr olds should be helping by picking up toys and clothes they lay around as well. Quick pick ups after play, or before going to bed, (as long as you have a place for everything, keep it simple!) should be a great habit to instill. Children are very proud to help out. This keeps them grounded to the expectation that they are part of the family unit, their contributions are appreciated, and in the long run everyone wins! I used to run a daycare, and tell each child to pick up one color of toys, or all the trucks, another child all the stuffed animals etc...no one ever argued! it was a game to them, and it was a transition time to another activity that day, like right before lunchtime, or right before dinner. With so many children on hand, and more to come, you need to be super organized, yet not so much that you are in a tizzy every day keeping everything in place. Have bins of toys in areas that are accessible to the kids, and rules for when these toys came come out and when they need to be put away. Once you have a system in place that works for you (since you are at home more than your husband it sounds) then share that system with him and when he is around, have him help you enforce it.

When my children were younger, and when I had the added kidlets from my daycare, I really had to be organized, and make sure that visiting adults respected my schedule and rules...otherwise I was a disaster by the end of the day.

There was nothing more frustrating than getting all my kids into bed by 8pm, then having my husband come home and get them all riled up again for another two hours.... took a long time for him to catch on to the fact that I was pulling 16 to 18 hour days (especially when I was breastfeeding....) but in hindsight, I should have simply had a plan that was workable for both of us. Hard to do when you are basically operating day to day, just glad that you made it through....

One suggestion for bedroom cleanups: you make it a Saturday morning cleanup project, consistenly every Saturday morning without excepetions, then the kids may growl, but the job gets done. Expectations for your 8 yr old to pick up after herself after using the washroom every time she uses it should be a given. But daily pickup of her room, may be something to put off until Saturday...

Please remember the most essential thing: what you instill in them today WILL follow them in the years to come. what you instill in one child (or neglect to instill) will be taken on by all as the norm for behavior.

Laying down the law does not have to be a screaming match either (in fact, to be taken seriously by the child, it should be done very calmly and in all sincerity): the key is STICK TO IT. Don't be bothered by your child's growling or resistance. If she pouts and grumbles, let it go, but stick to your guns. If she gets defiant, acts out, talks back, then take away her privileges: tv, video games, phone,...for no more than two days, and make sure that the issue is corrected. Always make sure she understands why she is being punished: literally ask her "tell me why Daddy and I are taking away your game privileges". Many children get punished, but because they are so upset when it happens, they have no idea what happened to them (they're not trying to con you) so just calmly re-explain why you are taking away something: example: first, I am taking away your privilege to watch tv this evening because you did not finish putting away your clothes properly the way you were asked. second, we are telling you to go to bed one hour earlier because when we asked you calmly to put your clothes away, you talked back at us. Be extremely specific. If you are too vague, the child will literally not know what behavior caused the problem and how to correct it.

Dear J., hold on to your guns or you will have all your children behaving like your older one in not time at all. One thing I never quite believed and had been warned about is that if a parent doesn't establish clear expectations early on, before the ages of 9 or 10, it's an uphill battle after that. I have seen this over and over again with many friends and relatives. Sometimes we laugh at what our children come up with, but I remember telling my husband "well, it's funny today, but would we still be laughing if she did this when she's 14?" Looking back, that should have been a pretty good rule of thumb for me to follow....now that my kids are teens....

First and foremost though, you and your husband need to figure out what you want your kids' behavior to look like 10 yrs from now: that starts today. Formulate a plan that is workable for both of you, then make sure that it is followed consistently.

In frienship and support,
V.

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Hi
How about having her drop them in the washing basket before her evening bath, or when she gets into her pjs. That way you could supervise that part. Also, what about paying her an allowance to keep her room clean, etc. She could get money for each time it is done (immediate reward). Or stickers that represent money that she could get at the end of the week (delayed gratification).
Good luck

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Hello J.. Wow! You sound like me! I'm a mom of 6 kids 8 and under also. I have to say, I have a very similar problem as far as dirty clothes in dressers goes, but not just with the 8 year-old daughter. My 7 year-old son and 6 year-old daughter also have stuffed their drawers full of dirty things. I made a rule that they are in charge of their laundry and each have a designated day on which to do it. I gave them some "training classes" on exactly how much soap, which buttons to push, sorting, etc. and made really more of a privilege than a punishment. They were pretty excited about it at first. Now that has worn off some, but I try to use privileges as a way to motivate them to get their laundry done and put away. For example, Emily (the 8 year-old) cannot ride her bike or have reading time until her laundry is done. If that doesn't work, then sometimes I will appeal to her with a smile and something like, "Come on, Emi, when you are done we can play a game of backgammon together." So she feels like I'm on her side. I don't want to force her to do the laundry, I want her to choose to do it on her own, being motivated by the fact that we can play together afterward. Sometimes we fold together and make it a game with all the other kids. They pretend to "steal" the folded laundry and take it to put it away. Of course we follow the 10 commandments and do not steal, but for some reason, they think this game is hilarious when I pretend to be shocked about the missing laundry that I just folded. You can be creative and use your imagination :-) Alicia

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I agree with Eve.... Do nothing, provide her with the laundry basket/hamper to put her clothes in if they are not there they do not get washed.. PERIOD! Make a rule that she cannot go places with you or the family if she's not "maintained" and stick to it. "I'm sorry you cannot go with us to Chuck E Cheese/Disneyland (or anyone of her favorite places)because you haven't bathed/put on clean clothes in a week". I may have a bigger impact if she was in school outside of the home, not that I don't agree with home school, it just kids can be brutal and one "I don't want to play/sit with you because you stink" may fix it. You also need to sit down with Darling Husband and advise him that the situation hurts your feeling and you are trying the best you can and what does he suggest, give him an active roll and maybe the two of you can comproimise.

Good Luck

L.

P.S. The whole laundry thing worked for my Mom, LOL!!

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If you plant corn you will get corn. What you are doing is not working so try something different. When my daughter was 10 she went through a phase like this. I told her and told her to no avail. I started to wash her clothes the way she gave them to me, inside out, crumpled socks, what ever. She did not like it. Show her another consequence for what she does that is not related to your feelings. She is power tripping you. Set different boundaries for her. Close the door to her room and do not clean it. Refuse to allow her to do certain things in dirty clothes. Take away some of her clothes since she no longer cares if they are clean. Stop washing them for her. Take your emotion out of it. You can't teach a state of mind. You have to focus somewhere else to keep yourself sane. Good luck, my daughter turned out wonderful!! Love comes in different packages, rewrap your feelings and let loose of her for a while.