My daughter is 3.5. We discipline at home but perhaps not enough. When I picked her up today I was told (by her teacher) that she was given a cucumber slice as a snack, along with the other children. She didn't want it, so she threw it on the floor. To make matters worse, she refused to pick it up. All of this took place in front of the other kids. I cannot believe she was so stubborn and stood her ground like that. Eventually she did pick it up, and then she broke down in tears. Her teacher relayed this to me and then asked me if she is allowed to get away with things at home, and reminded me not to give up in demanding proper behavior. She is a highly experienced teacher who has raised 7 children of her own so I guess I trust her. Still, it was embarassing to be told this and I'm not sure how to feel. My husband says we must crack down on making absolutely sure that she listens to us because without that, we're in for it.
I'm horrified. She does have a temper and she does throw things when she's angry or frustrated, and she does often refuse to listen when I ask her things. We have a zero tolerance policy for certain disrespectful behavior in our house but clearly we're not doing something right.
We certainly don't want a brat on our hands and I'm so afraid we're moving in that direction. She's bright, verbal and super stubborn. I never expected to have such a verbal child and sometimes I think that's part of the problem...she expresses herself so well---too well. An example of this bratty behavior is that when we're out, she often won't say hello to people we know. Also, the other day we were in an elevator and she refused to make room for some other little kids with their mother. I was absolutely mortified. I made her get out and take the steps up after giving her a chance to move and she refused. I figured that was a good natural consequence.
Thanks.
Thank you all for your wonderfully supportive comments and suggestions, and for normalizing the situation for me. Her preschool teacher was right for insisting she pick up the cucumber...we don't allow her to throw food on the floor at home and she's not allowed to do that outside of home either...what bothered me the most is that the teacher chose to mention it to my husband when he picked her up. This was the first incident we've dealt with and, being it's the first, I would have been much more comfortable if it would have been a matter-of-fact thing---and not something that propelled her to question our parenting strategies. I'm not sure if tomorrow morning when I drop her off I should say anything or just leave it alone. Either way, you have all been most helpful in reminding me that parenting is a process. I am quite h*** o* myself...and many days feel like I'm just not getting it right with my daughter. I have the Love and Logic book and will go back and re-read it. Thank you again and Happy New Year.
good for the teacher in insisting on proper behavior, and good for you for listening and not lashing back.
but don't be horrified or mortified, hon. she's just a toddler. it's a process, not a character trait.
you're doing great.
khairete
S.
wow. i'm disappointed that her preschool teacher would turn it around on you like that. has she had trouble in preschool before this???
bottom line, she is 3 1/2. any and all discipline for behavior at preschool needs to start and stop with the preschool teacher. at this point nothing you do at home to address preschool issues will make much of an impact - her attention span isn't there yet. her teacher should understand this and take responsibility.
the fact that she "finally" picked it up and then burst into tears, tells me that instead of a direct timeout for disobedience, the teacher drug it out and drug it out and your daughter got in over her head and couldn't handle the situation. i'm just really baffled that this teacher let it escalate that far. it wasn't fair to the other students who need her attention, and i'm sorry but it's not really fair to put a 3 1/2 year old through that kind of stand off. sounds to me that the teacher was being just as stubborn as your daughter - and she should k now better. i would not be surprised to find out she has issues with discipline in her class.
be that as it may........
my son has gone through periods of sheer concrete stubbornness. he is normally the easiest kid, cheerful and eager to please...but there have been times he has dug his heels in (once in a blue moon) and his fortitude can be staggering - and shocking since i'm not used to it lol. i think, personally, as long as you stick to your guns when she decides to dig in her heels, that you are doing things right. teaching her that no matter what her "mood" at the moment, the rules and expectations are still the same.
there are times, i have found, when our kids go through "easier" periods. then when the "terrible threes" hit (for example - these were by far way worse than the two's for us) we can be taken by surprise. then we have to buckle down and be rock solid in our discipline just to remind them how things work. at least that is what i've found at our house. again, my son has always been mostly great. so there are times i've found myself getting lax in discipline, and sooner or later he takes advantage and we have to do a little "boot camp" and remind all of us involved who is in charge. then we go back to great behavior for awhile. lol.
you're NOT moving into "brat" territory - you're on top of this. you can do it. just keep at it - you have the tools! you're doing great.
Everyone is jumping on preschool teacher claiming she doesn't know how to discipline and doesn't understand 3 year olds, but honestly, what did she do wrong? The child threw a cucumber on the floor and she insisted she pick it up. And she eventually did. What would everyone else have done? Pick it up for her? Ignore it? Wait for 3 minutes and then if she didn't pick it up do it for her because she was making her wait too long and it's so terrible to power struggle with a 3.5 year old? What sort of message would that have sent? (I don't HAVE to do anything I don;t want to.) I don't get it. She's 3.5. Not 12 months. She doesn't need to be throwing things at her age. Totally unacceptable. If you throw something, you pick it up and apologize. (And probably a time out is warranted if it happens more than once.) As for her telling you about it, you admitted yourself that she has issues at home so my guess is, this is not the first time she has misbehaved. So I would expect the teacher to share with you the misbehavior. I would also expect her to try and feel out if she is corrected for this sort of behavior at home if it is something she sees your daughter doing more than a few times. If this was the first time, then she was over the top in asking about home discipline. That's what you need to find out. Was this a first time offense, or is she exhibiting this behavior regularly? Until you find that out then you don't know the extent of the situation. Keep working with her. As long as you acknowledge (and you do) that her behavior needs work and you are firm with her, she will eventually learn what is acceptable and she'll turn into a friendly, compassionate, sweet, delightful little girl. Keep up that good work, Mom! :)
Don't be embarrassed. This happens with children who have this type of personality. I think that you are expecting your child to act like a little adult, or that she is older than she really is. Don't do that - it's not fair of you to expect her to jump ahead developmentally.
That being said, the teacher is right. However, zero tolerance doesn't mean that telling your daughter ONCE is going to work. It's a work in progress, mom. When she throws things, stubbornly misbehaves, that kind of thing, she needs swift consequences. For the elevator incident, you did a good job. Another thing you could have done is gotten off the elevator and taken her to a bathroom and sat her down in the floor and make her SIT there until she apologized. (Walking up the steps may not really be something she doesn't like - kids usually like going up and down stairs.) If she bawled or dug in her heels, no matter. You stand there and pretend to read your phone until she lets go of the stubborness. If you are shopping or out and about with the car, leave wherever you are, even if you leave a cart full of groceries, strap her into her carseat and stand outside of the car until she straightens up and apologizes to you. Then tell her you are going to go back inside the store and you expect kindness to others and no ugly behavior from her.
You have to find out what your daughter's "currency" is - what she loves best, and withhold that from her. Give her plenty of outlet to "talk", since she is very verbal. SHOW her kind actions towards others. Point out when you see someone being kind in front of you both. Tell her how nice that person is so that she starts to internalize it. Mom, kids are universally selfish - they are supposed to be. They have to LEARN not to be selfish. Added to the fact that she has a stubborn personality, you must "massage" good actions into her when she is NOT acting up. And then swiftly give her consequences when she does act up.
Again, don't be embarrassed about what happened at preschool. One reason you send her there is to learn how to interact with people outside of your home. The teacher is like another mom to her and between the both of you working on this, it will really help her.
Good luck!
Dawn
It feels like you took this personally as though your child's behavior is a reflection on you. You need to let that go. Your child will always be her own person and even if you do your
best at parenting, your daughter will be a pill sometimes.
The teacher was giving you all a heads up. Why does it matter if it was your husband or you? He is just as much of a parent as you. Remind your husband. You both need to just take in the information and then decide how to help your child navigate these situations at home and when out and about..
Your child is 3. The teacher knows this. She sounds direct and common sense. She was speaking to you all as adults. You can handle this information.
NO child is perfect. Never will be. They have good days and bad days. They get distracted, they like to test the adults to make sure the adults notice and care enough to reinforce the rules. This teacher sounds like she is good at making sure that the children in her care know expectations.. This is a good thing.. Your child has to hold it together at school.. When she comes home, you can baby her and parent her, but at school, she will be prepared for kindergarten and school behaviors. I promise, this will pay off in the long run..
Yes, you have to stand your ground, but this doesn't mean you have a brat on your hands.
Kids go through all sorts of stages. With the teacher and both parents on board, she will grow from here.
I'm with Adansmama on this. I am stunned that her teacher got into a power struggle with her that led her to tears. She is only 3.5. This is a tough, challenging age, where they will refuse to listen and to do things. And they will refuse to move for other people, etc. Hell, at that age, they will also shove other kids off playground equipment just to see what happens! We are mortified by their behavior, but they are just trying to figure out "what happens." Reality and fantasy aren't that far apart in their heads, and this is when they start learning how to separate them out. I keep having to remind myself that my brand new 3 year old isn't lying when he is lying, rather, he is just telling me what he wishes to be the case. This is what they do at this age.
In any case, refusing to greet people she knows isn't bratty. You need to let your daughter make her own choices. I see the problem being that she has some adults around her that are "demanding" things, without letting her make her own choices. This age is about learning how to be independent, it isn't about learning how to do what an adult tells you. It's about teaching them how to make choices. If I was that teacher, I would have said, " X, do you want to pick up the cucumber or do you want to go sit in the TO corner?" If she picked the corner, I would remind her after the TO that we do not throw food, we push it aside if we don't like it, and that it belongs in the garbage. I would then ask her again, " Do you want to pick up the cucumber or do you want to sit in the TO corner?"
In short, expecting a 3.5 to always listen to you is only going to create power struggles. Trust me, I tried this with my daughter. SIlly me. My son? I always give him choices, and guess what? He is a much better listener. Yesterday he refused to pick up his trains, so I asked him, " do you want to pick up your trains or do you want mommy to do it and put them in TO?" He quickly picked up his trains. There was no struggle, because I didn't "demand" anything. I let him make a decision. After raising 7 kids, I'd think your daughter's teacher would be an expert at this, and know better than to reprimand you about a non-listening 3.5 year old. Do a quick google search. 3.5 year olds don't' listen! It's normal!
I would be embarrassed but not horrified. Every day there is one child or another at DD's school that doesn't want to pack up his/her lunch and the teachers make them go back and do it before they can leave. My own DD rolled out "NO!" as a (failed) experiment one day - to see what she could get away with. Now, yes, reinforce things like do as you are told at home, but children also have their own minds and if you come across a 3.5 yr old who has never ever ever done anything defiant, I'd be looking for dials and switches.
For the cucumber, teach her at home to leave it on her plate and say, "No, thank you."
We had a teacher, 20+ year veteran, tell us all sorts of things about SD and totally dismiss what WE told HER about SD. She was the "expert". Yeah, she knew a lot but we were experts at SD. So take what the teacher says, think about your home and if you could do something better, but don't be tail tucked between legs about a cucumber.
And if she's smart - use that. Explain things to her in simple terms. My DD responds pretty well if I tell her why, within reason. I think you did the exact right thing to make her leave the elevator. I bet she'll remember that! And when you need her to listen, try getting down on her level and asking for listening ears and then making your request.
Or "DD, how do you feel when people don't say HI? Does it feel nice? No? Then remember that when you don't say hi to other people. It is polite to say hello to your friends." My DD went through a phase where she wouldn't say good bye - because in her mind, if she didn't say it, they couldn't go. Or she'd cry when it was time to leave and I told her that it made her friends feel bad.
We are currently working on DD that this horrible whining noise she makes when things do not go her way is terrible. "DD, you can stop that noise right now or go to your room, but I do not want to hear it." So she has a choice, and neither one continues the annoyance in my presence. Once the noise stops, "DD, please use your words. I am not a mind reader. I cannot figure out from EEEEHHH what it is that you want or need."
Your DD has words. Encourage her to use them instead of throwing things.
And try not to be draconian. Talk to her. Talk WITH her. Teach her what it is that you do want and not just what you don't. "DD, I noticed that you waited for the stroller to get in the elevator. That was the right thing to do. I'm proud of you."
Friend of mine has very verbal, very clear children. She says that sometimes she has to stop and remind herself that her child is only 4 yrs old, even if she sounds older. Figure out what's typical for a 3.5 yr old and go forward. Your child is not a lost cause by any means.
Didn't read all the answers, but wanted to say your kiddo is normal, don't be so embarrassed. The teacher was in a snit. What she said was over the top. I would guess she was having a tough day and was low on patience. Your daughter is 3.5 years old. She is still learning. You're doing your best to teach. It's not going to work out perfectly every time.
The elevator thing was great. I wouldn't consider saying hi to everyone bratty - there are days where I don't want to say hi to everyone so I wouldn't stress about that kind of thing. By you modeling the behavior, you are teaching her as well.
Check out Love and Logic if you already haven't. No kid listens perfectly all the time. You do your best to get the best result.
Sounds like you're on the right track with the natural consequences. I would keep on in that direction. You can also role play behavior using her dolls. Play out everyday encounters she would have at school or in public and show her how to behave. I have found my toddler mimics my behavior constantly (good or bad) so I'm trying to be OVERLY mannerly by saying please and thank you all the time. The other day when I kissed her she said "thank you, mommy."(I guess it's working.)
Maybe the teacher could have said it more gently, but the spirit of what she said was true so I would not shoot the messenger.
OMG.. I can not belive what that teacher siad to you. AHHHHHH..Tell her to shove it.. Parent of 7 kids or not.. she is the one not in contol at school not you.. she is in charge.. not you.. she needs to get a grip.
OKay truth.. kids are testing you at this age.. My son is like that. He is very stubborn, and that is just life. We keep up on him, but it is hard.
As a parent.. just be consistant ( yep, easier said than done I know I struggle with that as well) The kids are looking for your reaction, do you darndest to keep neutral.
I am the parent of an ADHD child who has been asked to leave 3 daycares, now we have a nanny for him. For my son he is now in a preschool (reall school not daycare) and they work on talking out the feelings and proper behavior. We work on it at home as well but as parents we are working full time, trying to keep the house in running order, dinner , bath , bed.. it is a huge STRUGGLE.
Hang in there, all will be better in time. I struggle with trying not to let other parents opnions of us interfere with what we are doing. My son is very defiant at times, he has sensory and ADHD. We take it one day at a time. And evey day gets a little better.
Bottom line, you are not doing anything wrong. Kids are kids.
GOOD LUCK.
OK - take a deep breath and chill. Your child is 3.5 years old. She's been on the planet less than 4 years. How short amount of time is 4 years? A child throwing a cucumber on the floor and having a very small temper burst is not a big deal. I'm pretty shocked that the teacher even mentioned it to you. Are you trying to tell me that this experienced teacher who raised 7 of her own kids never had a 3 year old refuse to eat something, throw it on the floor then burst into tears? Heck I feel like doing that frequentlly and I'm 50 years older than she is.
This is NOT a big deal. This is your child having a not-great day and not wanting to eat a cucumber. I know people who hate cucmbers - they don't like the texture or the seeds, etc. Maybe another child had just taken a toy from her 5 minutes ago or hit her. Maybe her tummy feels sick and she doesn't know how to describe "I feel like I'm going to throw up". Maybe the teacher was having a bad day and your child picked up on it.
It's not worth ruining your day and feeling like a failure as a mom. You're fine. You have a strong willed child - that quality will serve her well in adolescence when other kids are drinking & doing drugs. That quality will help her reach goals and perservere. She's still got her social training wheels on - she's learning how to ride the social skills bike and she's going to fall, wobble, have a tough time turning around and using her brakes. Kids need reinforcement a thousand times to learn things. At 3.5 years she's only been through difficult snack situations maybe 5 times. She'll learn it - she won't be throwing cucumber slices on the floor when she's 15 - I promise.
I learned a really valuable lesson from an 80-something year old Sunday school teacher when my kids were little - the best way to train your child is to explain your expectations as she approaches an anticipated situation, explain the things that might happen, tell her how she should handle it, tell her that you know she'll be able to handle it well, tell her you know she's becoming a big girl and you know she'll do well.
In the unwanted snack situation let's face it - does she know what to do with a snack that she thinks is gross? Explain that at school, at a friends's house, even at grandma's house someone might give her something she doesn't like. Ask her what she should do with it? She'll give you some ideas of what's appropriate in her mind. Ask her what she would think if she gave her favorite friend or cousin a snack and they threw it on the floor. Then explain what she should do - "you can push it aside and say no thank you" or whatever other option you decide on. Then after the situation tell her how great she did. Focus on the good - tell her you're proud of her - that is was a difficult thing - but yay! - she did the right thing and handled it so well!
I've used this when we've gone to new places, restaurants, people's homes, sports/clubs, even funerals. I used it yesterday with my 13 yr old when we traveled 2 hours for a family party to find that the cousin his age was home sick, there was no TV in this house and he had to hang out with his 10 yr old girl cousin all day. When we realized the situation I pulled him aside, acknowledge the boringness of the situation and that I knew he'd handle it well. He was a champ, he entertained his little cousin all day. When we got home 12 hours after we left I made sure he knew how proud I was of him that he was graceful, non-complaining, and a good sport.
You're doing fine mama. The teacher sounds a little high strung - but you're doing fine.
Okay, well hmmm...first off I think what the teacher did was correct. She held her ground and expected your child to pick up what she threw on the floor. That is totally acceptable and what is what I would have done in my own home.
The thing that boggles me is that she confronted you about it (seemingly rudely to boot) and made it into such a big deal. I don't think that it deserved a phone call and if she felt like she had to mention it, which unless this is an every day occurrence I don't think she needed to, she should have done just that...mentioned it. She should have said, hey this happened, just so you know, you may want to make sure you're working on this at home.
Your daughter's behaviors are normal for her age. I call this the Show Pony Syndrome and my son totally has it! LOL! Just as someone else said, they don't want to be a show pony...they don't want to do and say the things you tell them to because they want the control. It's normal. Just stay consistent and work through it. Keep having conversations about what is polite, right, called for in a certain occasion, etc. It sounds like you are doing the right things, but be careful not to associate this with bratty behavior. Your child is not a brat and I hope she doesn't hear you refer to her as one. Stop being mortified and just deal with it. Most people (not all, but really most) are understanding of kids being kids. They will cut you some slack as long as you are trying your best.
ETA: Quickly changing my previous answer: If you are doing everything you say you are, then don't worry. Spirited or no, when kids have consistent, loving (and listening) guidance, they do better than not.
I still stand with my previous statement that if a teacher has a question or comment like what you described, it should be handled as a phone call or conference, out of respect for your family's privacy and to create a better time to ask helpful, open-ended questions and to do some problem-solving. I find that those 'on the fly' "Your kid did such and such" can be hard for parents, esp. if there was no clear resolution---which is inferred if she's asking about parenting at home... it would have been a clear resolution if she's just recounted the incident and left it with "so you might hear about that today".
My son's preschool teacher had the same respect for me ("We noticed that Kiddo was having some trouble with X , so this is what we did...") in making a phone call afterward. I so appreciated this.
I wouldn't be horrified or embarrassed. I mean, it wasn't The Great Cucumber Incident or anything like that, right? No one was hurt?
I think all that happened was your daughter tested the boundaries at school and when she had to back down in front of her entire class by picking up the cucumber slice, she cried out of her own embarrassment. Of course having it be a power struggle the teacher was involved in, it felt Extremely Important but not so much that she should have asked you if you {{{gasp}}} let her get away with things at home and insinuated that you're too lax as a parent. Now it's such an important situation that your husband has declared that you need to tighten up discipline or your daughter will walk all over you both as a teen, right? And what's next? She'll throw a cherry tomato that means she's bound to do drugs, be promiscuous, and turn into a prostitute. Better teach her not to mess with food at all.
Or in shorter terms, it was very important to your daughter and teacher but not so much that the teacher needed to let you know and chastise you as a parent.
