Is It Really OK to Lie, Just Cause You Want to save Money?

It's not OK.

And I suspect a lot of this mentality is directly proportional to living outside of O.'s means. Guess what? If you can't afford it--DON'T GO!

ETA: The same can be asked about politics! LOL Is it OK to lie about paying taxes? hahaha

All of the justification makes me nuts....well a 3 yo might not be able to "do much riding", "we'll be buying their overpriced $10 chicken finger baskets"... REALLY?
Do YA THINK maybe, just maybe the park has taken that into account and STILL set the pricing policy as they see fit? Sea World is not a democracy OR a Republic...it's Sea World. They get to set the admission policies they wish. You get to opt out if you don't like them!

Stealing is stealing, lying is lying. Both are terrible behaviors for parents to model for their kids.

**
ETA: Some responses are saying that it's not lying to just sneak around...and if asked you'd fess up. So, I guess if my hubby cheats on me he is not lying to me unless I flat out asked him, "Are you cheating on me?"

ETA2: I DO remember the one time my mom took us all to a theater she snuck popcorn and other snacks into her diaper bag. At the time I thought nothing of it, but when I got older I was appalled at it and called her out on it. She confessed that she shouldn't have done it, but didn't give it a second thought at the time. Do I EVER do it? Nope! Not claiming to be sainted--I've got my share of massive personal failings, but lying and stealing are not some of my bad traits.

Exactly. I was more baffled by some of the answers of "lay off" or "come on moms" than I was at the initial question.
And feeling the need to ask the question to begin with is a signal, to me, that there's a voice in there, a conscience, already telling you no to begin with.

Love this post! I also was really surprised by all of the justifications for "cheating" on the luxury vacation to Sea World. There certainly are situations where stealing can be justified i.e. your child is starving and the ONLY way to get her fed is by stealing food. I'd rather people say "I'm getting away with it because I can" vs. the completely nonsense justification of my child will eat a hamburger so Sea World gets their money's worth". Really?!? Stealing is another reason things are getting more expensive (besides 9% unemployment and a country in economic turmoil).

It boils down to integrity and our own personal moral code. "Character is how you conduct yourself when no one else is looking". Our children are watching and learning about integrity and character directly from their mom and dad - What do we want them to learn from us and How do we want them to be known...as cheaters or as honest, contributing citizens? Thanks for your thoughts!

I agree with you! We are going to Disney world in dec but I'm going to be 8.5 months pregnant and won't be able to ride the rides think they will let me in free?

J., I agree with you -- I was amazed at the number of "It's OK to lie" responses. And now, in response to this post of yours, someone said, "It's different if it's merchandise" and that cheating an amusement park or movie theatre is OK because those businesses assume people will lie about ages "and they (the parks and theatres) won't lose money." Say what? They DO lose money. And they will increase their prices to make up for the losses they know they're taking. So the folks who say "I'm just fudging a little to save a few bucks at the theatre, that's not stealing" are stealing from ME when I eventually have to pay more in my ticket to account for the "fudgers."

Those same folks surely would say "Oh, I'd never steal jeans for my kid." And yet, I would bet they're the same ones who take two newspapers out of a newspaper box instead of the one they paid for; the ones who make illegal CDs and DVDs because they don't think it's stealing to use an artist's work without paying the artist; the ones who take the towels from the hotel because "these towels aren't worth much, they buy them cheap in bulk, I didn't like the room so this is my fair share..." Hypocritical, isn't it.

What really killed me was she's already getting in for free if she can't afford 1 child's ticket she shouldn't go. People sneaking their kids in free is one reason why amusement park prices keep going up. They hav to compensate for their loss some how.
It's like tapping into your neighbors cable. You aren't paying or a service that's bing provided for you but the rest of us are.

Here is the deal.. When your child is 9, lets say he decides to eat cookies and not tell you.. That is not a big deal I suppose, but is it lying, if you have asked him not to eat before dinner.. You do not know the difference.. he is not really hurting anyone..

So then he is 13 and takes a few dollars from your purse. You do not notice
so not a big deal?.. It is the same for any business.. Not a bog deal I suppose, but you are stealing from someone, aren't you?

I think that if you can't afford to play by the rules, or if you think the rules are bad, then don't go. Don't give them ANY of your money! Isn't that the beauty of America? You choose where to spend your money. You protest by NOT spending your money, or by writing letters. Get enough people to write letters, sometimes policies change.

I remember my parents trying to sneak me into Disney World for the cheaper price. I was always small for my age and I think I was 13 but they were trying to get me in for the 12-year old rate. My mom made me put my hair in pigtails because it made me look younger and she told me not to say anything. Not only was I mortified (because at age 13 all I wanted was to be treated like a teenager) but look--13 years later and I still remember!

I also giggle when restaurants have the kids' menu. My daughter is 10 and sometimes the menu says "Under 10," sometimes it says "10 and under" and other times it's 12 and under. If it says "Under 10" she won't order from the kids' menu because it's breaking the rules. I'm actually proud of her for that! She did want the kids' meal once and she asked the waitress very nicely "I'm 10 but I want the kids' cheeseburger, do you think that's all right with the manager?" I almost laughed out loud because she was so serious :)

I think that lying for any reason is setting a bad example for our children. It is our job to teach them to be good, honest, kind, and productive adults. In order to do that we must be all those things, and lying does not fit into that ANYWHERE.

When I was a teenager I had a Sunday School teacher put it to me this way: How much would you sell your integrity for? Is your integrity worth $10? $20, $100? Or is it worth more to you than money; will you guard your personal honesty and integrity or will you sell it by cheating or stealing for a few measly dollars? That lesson has really stuck with me. When my family was going to eat at a pizza buffet once my husband said that our youngest was 4 so we would have to pay less for her meal, she immediately piped up “No Daddy, I turned 5, remember?” So of course he said “Oh yes, she’s 5.” He was very embarrassed! And we learned our lesson that teaching children honesty and integrity is worth more than saving a few bucks!

I was also suprised at some of the justifications for lying.. In the mom's defense... she must have some sneaking gut instinct that it is not right or she wouldn't have posted the question, I hope.

It is NOT ok to lie, cheat and steal and if you model that behavior to your child, your child will grow up thinking it is ok.

What goes around comes around......

Just wait until some of these children from families justify the lying get to preteens and older... Boy, I'd love to be a fly on the wall when little Johnny starts sneaking out, drinking/drugs, taking money from mom or dad's wallet, skipping school, etc... What kind of stories will be told!

If you can't afford to take a trip or do something then DON'T... Wait and save your money until you can afford it.... don't lie about it.

I'm right there with you!!!!! I cannot believe that people think just because their child is small or doesnt eat that much or wont really ride very many rides that it is okay to lie cheat and steal to get them in...it teaches their kids to lie cheat and steal, gives them a sense of entitlement. Some people just have to ruin it for everyone else, they are selfish. If they cant afford the prices then they shouldnt go. and I can say that because we are broke as hell and couldnt afford to take our family lots of places, so if we cant afford it we just dont go.

Thank you QueenoftheCastle!

Lying/cheating/stealing is not okay...no matter the reason. People have an unbelievable ability to justify their own behavior b/c we are unable to "live" with the cognitive dissonance when our actions are in contradiction to our behaviors.

When I was in school (elementary right on through graduate school), we had to write on EVERY piece of work we turned in AND sign the following pledge every September...

"I will not lie, cheat or steal nor tolerate anyone who does" or "I have neither given nor received unauthorized assistance on this work"- or some variation of that. We were held to it and punishments were severe for violating the Honor Code.

When did we (as a culture) stop valuing this?

I agree with you, J.. There are always ways to self-justify nearly any behavior. That doesn't make it right. And whether we realize it or not, other people often pay for our dishonest cost-cutting.

One example: my husband and I publish hands-on science activities that teachers and families can use at low cost, improvising with cheap materials they may already have at home. Our approach is designed to keep costs as low as possible. In return, we ask purchasers to use the materials with only the children they teach themselves. Our only source of income for ourselves, and to meet our business expenses, is from selling our books.

We know, because we hear frequently from teachers and home-schoolers, that many of them freely share their books with other educators. They apparently feel not a twinge of guilt over this – after all, schools don't have as much as they need for optimal performance, and homeschoolers are always running on tight budgets.

What they don't realize is that our non-profit corporation is really tiny, not the huge organization they imagine. We run on an incredibly tight budget, and my husband and I together have never earned as much as one average schoolteacher. We've made daily sacrifices for nearly 30 years in order to make our much-loved materials available and keep producing more.

We have recdently, very reluctantly, realized we need to raise our prices in order to keep meeting our expenses. This means that every teacher and homeschooler who digs into their own pocketbooks will pay more. We might have been able to put this off for a few more years if every user of our materials were willing to purchase their own books.

Every business has to keep an eye on their profit margin. Yes, some businesses charge too much and rake in obscene profits. The answer is to not support those businesses – not by cheating or stealing from them, but by not giving them our business. But as long as there is public demand for a business, it will continue, and wildly popular businesses like theme parks will charge whatever they must to maintain their profit margins. That means that people who don't pay for the use of the facilities will eventually have their cost-cutting passed on to other customers. If we realize that, it becomes a bit harder to rationalize avoiding your share of the costs.

Personally I wouldnt do it. I keep in mind that even though a lot of those places seem overpriced, they are a for profit business, & they exsit to make money. Its just like using grandmas handicapped parking pass when shes not with you becasue you are too lazy to walk an extra 25feet.

I remember my mother putting me on the bus a couple of times and saying I was younger than the appropriate age. While I understand it, I still live with that humiliation believe it or not. I have heard of people buying an outfit, having the child's pictures done in it and then returning it. I have heard other stories. If the child is old enough to know something isn't right (and I am in my fifties now), then it is a possible savings, but not good for the child's future. You have an excellent point (points). Why be sneaky, why lie? And I have always seen this followup: if you lie once, then you have to cover that lie and so on and so on. With my own children: If we didn't have money we didn't do things like go to amusement parks and I don't think it really hurt them. They are older now and learning that sometimes we do without and life can be quite fine.

Hey, I can top that. We made a new friend and when my disabled, wheelchair bound husband went with us to the amusement place this is what she said "Hey, I can't believe you are telling me you are going to charge this guy in a wheelchair. He can't walk or do anything hardly. You know he isn't going to ride anything. He should be be free." We were sooooo embarrassed and are never going anywhere with them.

People tend to do whatever the heck works for them. I feel just as irritated when someone lies to me about needing care for their child and then they go with someone they find cheaper or closer or both. In many cases the parents will go out of their way to talk us up, email us, chat with us on facebook all in an attempt to keep us waiting for their "start date". But you better believe if they can get it for less they will go with that and the heck with us. I waited 6 weeks for a baby recently just to find out that mom lied about the man being fired to keep us on the string when they were really doing something else. Then immediately after them I waited a month for a mom that was "looking for work". She was going to start right up until Sunday evening. THEN I get an email saying that the daycare center she was waiting for came through last minute.

People say all the time that they are just doing what THEY need for THEIR family. Well I don't want to be them when their deeds are laid out before the Lord to judge. I know that I make personal sacrifices all the time for the good of others, even non-related people I've just met.

No it's never right to lie and cheat or steal and justify it. I just had this talk with my 11 year old yesterday. She was asking me about condiments when we are out to eat. She wanted to know why I don't take some of them home. She said that she thought they put them there for us to take. But I tried to explain that we should take only what we need for that meal, not future meals.

I do NOT lie about the tooth fairy or Santa. They are great stories and that's all my kids will ever know.

I do everything I can to save money, I go on the BOGO days to the museum, I clip coupons, shop sales, etc.

I do very little to "lie" but yes, when it boils down to it, yes I guess I do.

Yes, I bring my own drinks and snacks into the movie theatres and to our local public pool.

Yes, I've brought another child in with us on our family membership when we go to play at the club's play area.

Technically, yes, I guess I am "not following the rules". But if I was asked, "Do you have food?" or "Are these all your children?", I would answer honestly.

I guess I didn't have so much of an issue of her trying to get her child in, if she really thought the child wasn't going to ride/do much. However I think a better choice would be, don't go. But if your child is going and going to be participating, then yes, I definitely think she should be buying the ticket. But I did kind of take issue with the fact that she was doing it because she's justifying it since "money was tight". I believe then that you shouldn't be going if you can't afford it.

I might get slammed for having these opinions, but I guess I'd challenge everyone on being 100% honest. I bet most everyone has a little white lie they feel is justified or an exception to the rule. (Like how many people lied about a 3 yr old being potty trained before school started? I can count MANY MANY people who have been in this boat. And yes, it is the same thing. They didn't want to lose their deposit nor have their child not be able to go to preschool so they send them in "pull ups" and call them "accidents".)

I really don't see what the big deal is. You are comparing going into a store and stealing merch to telling someone that a 3 1/2 yr old is under 3. They are not the same things. I think this has been blown WAY out of proportion!

I think lines can definitely be blurred. We all technically "lie" all the time, when the tooth fairy, easter bunny or santa comes and leaves money and gifts. Thats actually lying, but we do it in the name of childhood whimsy. As i stated on the other thread I sneak healthy snacks into the movie theater to give my restless kids. I dont want their sugar laden, nitrate having, butter loaded confections that cost 10 times what they would anywhere else and are more fattening than fast food. Not going to happen.....technically...me doing that is dishonest as well.

I think its "ok" and i would gladly encourage my kids to grow up and do the same with their kids.

>>>>>>>>>>i would never be able to sneak my kids in under a different age(they are too tall), so i cant comment on that, but my point is that there isnt a clear cut line in the sand...they are very blurred.

ETA....i wanted to make it clear that i DO NOT THINK, that sneaking a child in under a younger age is the same as say....shoplifting, or stealing money from someone. I really do think we all lie and the degrees are ethically set.

It isn't OK. I am with you.

I would NEVER sneak my child in. If they are 3, they are 3, and they pay the 3 year old price, or we don't go!

I have a very VERY hard time telling my kids Santa came. I even posted about it once and got bashed for even considering ruining the spirit of Christmas.

Perhaps I am too honest. I wish more of society was this way.

And I second Leigh and Krista P all the way!!

ITS very different a store loses money when people steal merchandise. a movie theater or amusment park -prob expects people to stretch the truth by a year and they wont lose money

Heres why I think its diferent! If you have a 3 year old you can only go to their kiddie rides section, yet they charge you for your ticket knowing full wel you will only be able to watch your child go on rides...so yea I didn't feel bad seaking her in, because I had to pay the full price for my ticket when I was J. watching since I'm a single parent...theme parks in FL allow kids 4 and under free for this reason...its crazy to have to pay a full price for both of you when you cant abandon your kid to go on rides!
although i wouldn't lie, i would J. hope to walki ni with one ticket, if asked then Id buy an extra ticket but most people working there know this and let you through, same for the circus, you pay for 2 seats when theyre two and they have to sit on your lap

So far it seems like mos of the responses are people who agree with you vs the other moms trying to justify lying?

I didn't read the other post you're talking about, but I feel similarly to you about it. I wouldn't be able to do that without feeling guilty over it. BUT, at the same time, I can see how that mom probably felt it was fine. In a way, it's thievery for them to charge full price for a three year old! They should have a discounted price for that age (maybe they do?). Nonetheless, I wouldn't be able to do that and have a clear conscience about it.

Amanda G mentioned that we all lie, and referred to Santa, the tooth fairy, etc..., and I wanted to add a comment to that. I don't view it as lying. If my child flat out asked me, "Is Santa real?" THEN I would be lying if I said "yes, he is real." But I see Santa, and things along those lines, to be playing imagination...not a lie. It's to share in the magic of childhood and the wonder and amazement of it. If my child asked for the truth about it, I would not lie - I would tell. At the same time, I do see how she thinks it's a lie still. I view it a bit different.

I try to be honest 100% with my children (without losing any of the holiday magic unless they flat out want to know), and in the things that I do (like this amusement park one). I have a very sensitive conscience that will eat at me if I am dishonest.

No, I don't think that you should lie. However, I am really sick of theme parks raising prices every other minute. Right now, to go to Disney World for the day, it is $85 for an adult and $79 for a child. Parking is $15-20. You are spending a minimum of $40 to eat during the day and that is conservative for 4 people. So for my family to go for ONE day of entertainment without buying ANY souvenirs, it is a minimum of $383. I don't find this to be remotely affordable so we just don't go very often. Even the annual passes are very expensive.

Hi J.,
Nice question. I loved that both this question and the original one had a point of view, each of which netted letters which were mostly in agreement with the questioner's point of view. I try to keep this in mind when I read poll results. Folks often answer a question in the direction the questioner was heading. It's not that we change our minds, it's just that we all start out trying to find common ground and then end up agreeing more often than we would have. My best to you. By the way, I agree with you!