Is It ADD/ADHD, Sleep Deprivation or Bad Parenting?

C.,

I don't think you or your husband are "bad" parents from the note you wrote. It sounds like you are concerned about your son's behavior. It's normal for boys especially to be quite active. Does he participate in after-school sports? If not, perhaps you could get him on a baseball team or into swimming. Exercise really helps tire them out so they can study more effectively.

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You sound like me, my boys are 12 and 4and a half. Both of them react to red dye. More the older one than the younger. I found and did a little research on it, and I found that if a child is reactive to red dye they are also likely to react the same way to sugars. I would suggest cutting his sugars as well and see how his behavior is. My son was really a nightmare in kindergarten, due to the enviroment. He too had a hard time in "unstructured" enviroments. He wasn't behind though he was ahead and I suspect that may be the case with your son. When he has the "red dye or sugar" (read the labels by the way you'd be suprised what stuff has red dye in it) he cant concentrate very well. At one point in Kindergarten we considered medicating him, but I am really against medication unless it is totally warrented. I do know some kids can't function without it. So maybe you can talk to your pediatrician about things and see what's going on. I wish you all the best and hope everything works out.
W.

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This is not something that you or anyone on the internet can diagnose for you. You need to get to the pediatrician to rule out any condition that is beyond his control. If they rule it out, then you can take steps to correct his behaviors, but discipline is not something that will correct ADD, right?

I went through this with my son (who just turned 26!) when he was about two. We thought he was hearing impaired, so we took him to the doctor and they tested him. His hearing was fine (in fact, he's a very accomplished musician now with an exceptional ear), so the doctor discussed with us how to use correction to deal with his behaviors (mostly ignoring us when we called him, etc.).

Best wishes on your journey,
M.

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C.,
It may very well be ADHD; my son has it (along with lots of other stuff) and sensitivity to dyes and sugars is very common with kids who have ADHD. Diet is HUGE for so many kids! He may also be gifted; many of the characteristics you describe fit, especially how he responds to school; I would really try to get details from him about WHY school is boring. Many ADHD kids are behind not due to inability to do the work, but lack of the organization and planning skills it takes to finish it, put it away, remember it, and turn it in. Helping him with those strategies may improve the school situation, along with having a few talks with both your son and his teacher.
The pediatrician is a good first step; from there you may also want to get a session or two with a good clinical psych who works with kids and families; she or he could lend some input about the sleep and parental depression, and also help with strategies to use to help your son compensate if he does have ADHD. Best of luck with this, and hang in there!! BAD parents don't bother to ask for help or notice the things you have noticed or follow up in trying to get their child any help he needs, and you are doing all of that; you are a good mom!! All any of us can do is our best at the time. Sounds to me like your best is pretty great!!
E.

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Hi C.,
I have a 9 & 2 yr old also! We went through the ADD dilema as well with my 9 year old this past year as well. Our next step after his teacher in 3rd and 4th grade suggested he may have ADD was to go see his pediatrician. Most are quite up on the subject as well as various treatments (diet, exersize, counciling, medications). There is an indepth questionaire you will fill out as well as his teacher and one other person outside the immediate family then the MD will go from there. We ended up trying medications, after about 5 some with a little success others made him more inattentive we found one that on a low dose seemed to help and the teacher was somewhat satisfied with the reasults. I fought the medication as long as I could but I also didn't want him to become any further behind in school. I also have a personal and family history of depression and have questioned if my son might also. When we noticed with all of the meds he became very down, negative, and grumpy we went back to the pediatrician and I questioned the possibility of depression rather than ADD his MD was very open to talking about it. My husband and I decided a 9 yr old shouldn't be continually depressed and negative and that we either wanted to again try another med or an antidepressant again his MD was very supportive. The subject of antidepresants and kids is a tough one. There have been cases of increased risk of suicide with kids and teens on antidepresants so most hesitate. The ADHD medications however carry the same risk as the antidepresants and after seeing increased depression, mood swings, and outburst with the ADD meds we decided to go with a low dose of antidepresant and watch him very carefully. The transformation was so positive!! He's calm, yet doesn't complain of being tired and still has normal energy, he smiles and laughs again, joking, teasing etc and is doing great in school. We also are having his see a psychologist that has alot of experience with children and ADD/ADHD. This has really helped with frustrations my son has dealt with. He is learning how to deal with other kids, and work out problems he's having with communication, self esteem and basically mean kids. Do go see your pediatrician and make sure to tell them about your personal experiences with depression, ask alot of questions and keep trying if you aren't getting the results you feel are what is best for your son. I also agree that sleep, and food allergies are linked to this subject. I also have an intolerance to gluten (wheat and other grains). I saw a huge difference in my mental clarity, and moodiness when I found this out and changed my diet. Sleep is a big influence on both as well, some need more than others and that extra hour can make a huge difference. I hope this helped out, if not only to let you know your definately not alone! The situation for us was trying, and difficult but we just kept at it until we felt we had found a solution that was the very best for him as an individual. Take Care R. B

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There are so many ways that you can help your son with these issues. I'd start in two places: A good peditrician who can give you a good diagnosis, and a naturopath who can help sort you through the dietary and nutritional options, (and may help with the sleeping, too) and can prescribe a good homeopathic remedy. Hopefully, you have insurance that will cover both. It's a big world of ADHD theories solutions out there. You and you husband would probably do well to get lots of professional and peer support to help you through it.

E. Mendenhall, ND

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Bad Parenting, NO WAY! A Mother knows her child best and if you are concerned about how your son fits the profile for ADD/ADHD and hhe has a reaction to Red Dye, then by all means see your pediatrician for guidance. I think a full alergy check up may be in order, too. Speak to your son's school and ask for testing reccomendations there, too. They may be able to direct you to some resources in the community that can offer financial assistance, with your husband out of work, you may qualify for sliding scale fees or some state funding. I had struggled with an ADD child for years before it was understood, at 13 years she was diagnosed, wow the medication made a difference. Not all kids/parents are comfortable with medication, I wasn't at first, but she also struggled with depression/anxiety - so she really NEEDED it. There are alot of web sites out there and some good books for suggestions on how do work with their energy. There can also be some herbal remedies that will help him focus. Who knows maybe he should get an IQ test. Alot of famous people in history with genius level IQ's would have been diagnosed with ADD/ADHD. Good Luck. I hope this helps.

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Hi,

This is the first time that I have responded to anything. You have probably already received many responses. It is best to check with his doctor first. Start with a pediatrician - not a Family Practice. The Ped may send you to a specialist. Depending on your insurance, you may be able to start with a specialist first if you don't need a referral.

Also, it has been documented that a parent's depression (particularly a mother's depression) and children with ADHD go hand in hand. Therefore, it is imperrative that you are also treated for depression. I know from first hand experience that having a child with ADHD can wear a parent out and that can lead to depression.

Also, if they suggest drug therapy, don't be afraid to try it. Sometimes people just have chemical inbalances that need to be fixed. There is no way other than drugs. I always compare it to a diabetic. You wouldn't withhold insulin from them. They need it to survive so why would you withhold medication from someone else who needs it? Drug therapy can really save lives. It enables the children to function much better, they are happier when they can feel in control. The ADHD makes them feel crazy.

Also, check with the school. They have a school psychologist that can do testing also. Depending on the assessment, you can have accomodations at school to help your son function better.

Just to add a little about me. I'm married and we have 4 children, 2 with ADHD, one bipolar and one autistic with some physical disabilities. They range in age 11-18. I am also a RN. I believe in mother's intuition so if the doctor tells you something that just doesn't seem right, go to another. Trust your intuition.

Good luck

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HI! I am the mom of 3 wonderful kids 10, 8, and 6. My oldest has had behavior problems from the get go. He is a wonderful, smart, loving kid, but Is just too hard to handle. He would walk away and hide in stores, can't kee his hands to himself, chattery with jibberish, and just all over the place. He is also very argumentative and very sensitive. We had a wonderful teacher in 2nd grade that told us we should have hih screened for adhd, as her son had been diagnosed as a child and he rexperience with my son was the same as with hers. All it took was a visit to the pediatrician. She gave us a list of questions to answer and also a list for each of his teachers. It turns out that he scored very high on the adhd scale. He is now in 4th grade and after several trials and errors with differnt medications, we have found a good combination. He is getting good grades and is very successful on his baseball team. I would also suggest that you get the school psychologist involved, and if your insurance covers it, get your dr to referr to a child psychiatrist/psychologist. I know that sounds scary, but is really gives you another brain to pick and a place where your son can go and just unload. They are also MUCH better at getting the medication dosed and combined correctly. I wish you the best of luck. (I deal with depression to.....don't let yourself go while trying to deal with everyone elses issues.....if you need it, see your doctor and get on medication as well. No one will be successful until you are feeling well.) No, you are not a bad parent. Just don't give up. It WILL get better.

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I am assuming you are talking about the 9 year old. he would be in third grade?? this is a very common age for kids with ADHD to be dx! If you have gotten feedback from the teacher, by all means go to the pediatrician and say you want to at least rule it out! They will give you a form - one for the teacher and one for you to fill out (there are several, I like the Connor's the best) and you bring it back to the pediatrician and he can dx and treat.. or you can go to a behavioral specialist MD (we ended up having someone like this treat our daughters because they have other accompanying issues which is also very common with ADHD).

Yes... lack of quality sleep can mimick it so that should be addressed to see if he has sleep issues.. while it will not make ADHD go away it can help improve symptoms.. if there are sleep issues and they are addressed and the "ADHD" goes away.. it was not ADHD .. so there would be two things to look at. And yes.. some foods can make any condition worse if the person has allergies or sensitivities.. so that should be examined also. So many things to look at and address them one by one.

You may be blamed for bad parenting.. that has happened to me.. but don't listen to that!! You are your child's best advocate and you will do anything and whatever it takes to see that he is well taken care of.. so don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

It sounds like you have already received some feedback from teachers.. they should be willing to help you with getting a dx by filling out the form the pediatrician gives you. Sometimes the school has them and you can request it from the school.

which also brings to mind that you can request an evaluation from the school to help with this process too. You will have a meeting to discuss what your concerns are and what types of testing/evals will help determine what kinds of services might be available to him if he qualifies. I would encourage you to start that process soon.. as the schools tend to get really busy this time of year with evaluations to get services in place for kids for the next school year. You can at least rule out a learning disabilty and move on to other causes of his behavior.

you can email me separately if you have questions or need clarification.. I have been through this process and can give you some guidance.

YOU ARE A GOOD MOM.. so don't forget it.

J.

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I see this all the time at my school (I work at an elementary school). ALL children know that they know that the world revolves around them, at least until Junior High. In Junior High, most children still think that it does. It is the way of children.
Interrupting playtime to do chores? Again, completely normal. Who would want to spend time cleaning when that time could be spent playing? The only thing I can recommend is to have a reward for when he does his chores and a consequence for when he doesn't. These won't work at all if he doesn't know about the reward and consequence ahead of time. Also, finding the right reward and consequence might take some time. Not all things work for all people.
He sounds like a typical child to me. As far as all the ADHD symptoms, you can always get him checked out, but I would try eliminating Red #40 from his diet and making an earlier bedtime first. ADHD is over-diagnosed because there is no real way to test it.
Good luck to you! This is a lot to think about, but it may pay off in the end. Good luck to you and your husband with your job situation and depression, and everything else, for that matter.

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I am a mother of 2 boys ages 6 and 8. My older boy was diagnosed with ADHD and just as you describe he dislikes being interupted to do everyday tasks. I have so great books that i read and I am done using if you would like them or you can purchase them. The best of all is Transforming the Difficult Child:: The Nurtured Heart Approach
by Howard Glasser, MA and Jennifer Easley, MA. This book is so helpful and so positive. You are not a bad parent. My children are totally different people and i am the same mother both times. One has ADHD and the other doesn't. You have been blessed with a very active and creative child and now it is your job to help him learn to cope with his struggles. Keep yourself informed of all your options. We tried the medication for 9 months, but it did nothing but make him a skinny zombie boy. It was aweful! Once you educate yourself about how to deal with your boy things will be much better. Many normal parenting strategies do not work with ADHD kids.

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It might very well be a combination of all the things you mentioned! This makes it so hard!

My oldest (13) started failing school when I knew she was too smart to be doing so, talked to her (2nd grade)teachers and they toughened up her work, and now as a 7th grader, has been on the honor roll all this year, with good grades in the last few years also.

Now my 2nd child (10).... wow... we're still not sure what to do with her. It was suggested to me several years ago they thought she had ADHD, she was making awful grades, but I knew she was smart. She's really far behind in school and has just recently decided to start catching up. We did IQ tests and the works to find out what was going on. I have not yet taken her to the doctor for ADHD testing for 2 reasons, i was told she'd grow out of it it's her age, and i don't believe in medicating kids for no reason other than a lack of an explanation of what's going on with them. She makes bad choices even tho she knows there's consequences, never stops talking, talks back, sassy attitude when it's not her way, can't leave her little sister (3) alone when asked repetitively, loud, can't sit still, over dramatizes things, i could go on. BUT she's got the biggest, kindest heart of any child I've ever met! She's the first to hug and comfort, or attach herself to our friends (but she get to the point of overdoing it when it comes to some of these things).

After a lot of my own research, and new teachers this year, and one VERY long spring break, i have decided to have her evaluated by a doctor for ADHD. As a 4th grader just now getting into a 3rd grade level, 5th grade is when they start hammering down in school and she will no longer be able to play catch up, but rather fall farther and farther behind. This has been a really tough choice for me, but i feel now after 10 years, she deserves a chance to be the best she can be in her studies, AND with her friendships (this doesn't always go well either although she makes friends easily). There are new meds out there now, ones that only have to be given once a day and don't have the side effects that ridilin has, so there are more options now.

I too have depression that I have battled most of my life (I'm 33), but I stay positive for my kiddos, they mean the world to me! I've been med-free for 10 years now minus a few months of anti-anxiety meds before my hubby deployed (he made it back safe). Just keep your head up, and just do what you feel is right for YOUR child. It took me several years, but i think this is now the best thing for her. We'll just see what the doctor says...

Best of luck!

K.

P.S. she has bad sleep habits, some nights will stay up all night, then we have really bad days those days, then other days will pass out before bed time on the couch watching tv with us. But I don't think anything has to do with you being a bad parent, the fact that you're trying to find out what is best and doing research proves that you are by far a good parent! Good luck again!

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Hi C., It sounds as though you are aware of food items that can impact your son's health. I too am struggling with these things too. I have started giving my 8 yr old son fish oil. You can do some research at a place called fish oil blog. I don't have the link, but try googling. Extra protein can be helpful too. I am using a soy protein powder, added to his morning oatmeal. Foods low on the glycemic index can be helpful too. I noticed that you mentioned that he procrastinates about bedtime. With a 2 yr old, I realize that getting your older one to bed may not be so easy, but bedtime needs to be enforced. I always notice problems with my son when he doesn't get to sleep early enough. I'm not saying that I have all the answers. I don't at all, but I want to give him a healthy advantage. We are at the point now that our next move is an assessment by the school psychologist and also a visit with our doctor. He was found to have ADD by our counselor, but at this point we haven't been in a position to continue with the counseling-which I thought was helpful. It's important to keep your chin up, though it can be so hard and discouraging. I wish you well and hope you find some things that help.

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Get the book "The ADD Answer" by Dr. Frank Lawless. It covers allergies to food dies and other things that will contribute to it. I have a friend who has a son with the same thing and a daughter that had symptoms of tourettes. They both have cut out the harmful foods & dies, take supplements, do other "natural" treatments, and neither of the kids have those symptoms anymore. I highly reccommend www.naet.com also. Our chiropractor in the Tri-Cities does it. No shots & no meds.
Good Luck!

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Peiatrician is always a good step.

I just wanted you to know that with my oldest his 2nd grade teacher was sure he had ADD or ADHD and asked me to take him to his pediatrician for evaluation. A couple months later this teacher stopped me after school and told me what a great improvement my son had gone through and she was curious what medication my son was on. I was able to say, " oh, I quit my job so I was able to make sure my son didn't stay up all night reading."

Mind you I had to go to his room repeatedly, every night and had to demand that he go to sleep. Some night I could tell he was faking it so I sat there until he gave up and fell asleep.

It would be intesting to know if school is boring because he is just really smart and thinks it's a waste of time. On the other hand is the pediatrian think there is an adhd problem, I have seen the dramatic improvement in kids that really need the meds. How it slows down their spinning wheels in their minds just enough for them to actually see what is going on around them so they can start learning more.

I don't know if that helps- just some life experiences rattled off there!

I wish you the best,

J.

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I had some of the same issues with my now six year old daughter. We really started noticing it when she started kindergarten last year. She had sleep apnea (tossing and turning at night, snoring, and would routinely come in our bedroom at night). SHe had to have her tonsils and adnoids removed, but afterward was still having issues with being able to focus and follow directions. This school year her teacher suggested to us there might be something else going on, so we went to the pediatrician. We now know she has some form of ADD because she has made huge strides in school since starting medication. We also decided to meet with a child neuropshychiatrist to learn more about her condition and how to best understand and help her succeed.

I would say the first step is to talk to the teacher(if your son is in school). They can give you a better idea of what the situation is at school. Then I would talk to the pediatrician so you can discuss where to go from here.

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Go to your doctor. Fill out the paperwork/questionnaires and you'll know the answer.

As a mother of 3 ADHD children, difficulties sleeping is a sign of ADHD. You see the childs mind is still so busy/active that they cannot quiet it enough to fall asleep.

Go to your doctor.

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I recently read an article which maintains processed food, transfats and other bad fats, sugar, food dye, white flour etc can have a strong effect on ADD symptoms. Even if it does not help, it is a healthy improvement. There are a lot of good books out on childrens nutrition.

Good luck!

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Hi! This sounds like my 7 year old daughter. We received help from a children's Occupational Therapist trained in Sensory Integration. A couple books from the library that I found very helpful: The Out of Sync Child by Carol Kranowitz;
SENSATIONAL KIDS by Lucy Jane Miller; and Raising A Sensory Smart Child by Lindsey Biel. Also we now have same bedtime everynight, even weekends as suggested by the book, SLEEPLESS IN AMERICA by, Mary K. The latest web site that Im researching about ADD is amenclinic.com that has interesting articals on the brain. They are located in Tacoma, Wa. Also, for help with focusing, BRAIN GYM exercisis work. We have done a combination of things and continue to see results. Go outside the box. Blessings...

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I have only a moment, but I want to encourage you to follow up on the allergy angle. This makes a HUGE difference in my kids' schoolwork and behavior. Lack of sleep causes my oldest son to "not track" and be very emotional. Allergies could be affecting you with depression also. Yes, your depression could be affecting your son, but don't feel guilty about that because that's not all it is. Is your depression genetic? Mine is. If so, Please see what you can do for yourself. B-12? B-6? or maybe a B Complex supplement? St. John's Wort? Right now, I'm on Prozac because it works for me. I am hopeful that someday I'll be able to get a handle on all our allergies and that will help.
That said, be sure you are keeping consistent boundaries for your son. So he knows that he still has to do chores even if he doesn't want to. Idea: Complaint jar: every time he complains/argues/grumbles about obeying he puts 5 cents into the jar. At the end of the month (or whenever you decide), the money is donated to a charity for those who are not so fortunate as he is (food bank, World Vision, Compassion International, etc.). We call our jar the Phillipians 2:14 Jar ("Do all things without grumbling or complaining."). This helps my kids have a better perspective on life. Ours is full right now. ;)
Good for you for checking all the possibilities -- even the ones the put the pressure back on you! I'm proud of you -- not everyone is willing to look in the mirror. I can tell you love your sons. Keep up the good work!

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Yes, you can go to your pediatrition and they will ask you questions about his actions. In Washington State, most pediatritions will also ask your child's teacher to answer some questions about your child's behavior in school. From there, your ped will tell you what to do.

Good Luck!

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Yes, it could be food, especially some dyes (I didn't beleive this until my kids' behaviour worst behaviour began to happen right after they ate certain red dyed candies), it could be allergies to environmental factors - like hay fever- though I think that is more commeon in younger children, yes it could possibly be a reaction to your depression (but I have been having depression battles since they were born, and they are now bright, funny, energetic young men, so don't beat yourself up over that) Lack of sleep- if his behaviour is always the same, I would doubt it, or all kids- and teens- would be acting just the same. ADHD - if his behaviour matches the description, definately see your pediatrician, and ask (insist if you need to) on assistance from your school district, they get Federal funds for just this kind of screening (try asking the school counselour about it).
One thing that it is *not* is bad parenting. Don't beat yourself up, thinking that anything you feel is a problem behaviour is your fault. If you are concerned enough about him to be asking, then you are not a bad parent.
By all means get him screened, by no means let anyone put him on medication right off the bat. Many kids can be helped in other ways without it, it should be a remedy of last resort, not first.
And, for what it's worth, remember that not every kid is on the same energy level, and being bored in school? My kids were bored out of their skulls from early on, right up until they started taking college classes in their senior year- it may just be the school is not challenging him enough.
Your son sounds all-in-all like a wonderful young man.
God bless you all, and best wishes for the future- for all of you.

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We chose to use biofeedback as a treatment for our son when it was unclear as to his ADD being true ADD or an neuro-path complication. Also, the ADD medications had made him too slim. We eased him off the medications as he underwent biofeedback training. The most dramatic effect was seeing him be able to regulate his impulses and think beyond himself. In particular, we went to the Biofeedback Clinic of Edmonds, but if you want information supporting the idea, read "ADD: The 20-Hour Solution"

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oh C. i know what you are going through. it is really hard to deal with this issue especially at this time when adhd is such a contraversial issue.
my son sounds exactly like your son! seriously! i waited until the school said something to me and then when i took my son to the doctor i had a lot of questions and dialogue with his pediatrician.
i also read a lot of material.
i do have my son on medication now, and i have him on the lowest possible dose. it help a lot.
there is still problems at school. he doesnt really care for school and just does the bare minimum.
so i am continually looking for things that will help him. but i always keep in the back of my mind that they though einstein was 'retarded' and that helps!

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You need to start with your pediatrician but a psychatrist is the best for evaluating for adhd. I used a social worker that observed him and worked with him for over a year and took the evaluation to my son's ped. You need to get a diagnosis from a doctor adhd and everything else can mimic or have some of the same symptons. Only a professional can tell you what your son has. Once you have a diagnosis you can decide what kind of treatment your son needs.

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It sounds like there are so many contributing factors here. There is no easy short answer. Yes, not getting enough sleep will make a HUGE difference in any child and with an underlying condition or not, not getting enough sleep will make life much harder for him. You need to get him on a sleep schedule that is consistent and make sure he is getting the recommended amount of sleep each night. If you have to wake him up for school in the morning, then he is not getting enough. Your 2 year old should be getting 12-14 hours total (including nap), and your 9 year old should be getting 10-11. Many kids have reactions to red dye 40, and the symptoms mimic ADHD. Be very careful and eliminate all of it from his diet, and you should notice a big different. The jury is still out about whether ADHD is caused by parenting, but there is strong evidence to suggest it is (in my opinion). So, be firm, be consistent, don’t let your children run the house, and expect more from them. And yes, I do advise you work with his pediatrician as well even with making all those changes.

Good luck!

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Hello, I just had to respond because my son who is 11 has gone through a rough time when he started school in kidergarten years ago. The school kept pushing us saying he had ADHD, but I knew better. It took us years of research and testing to find out what was wrong. A very common food allergy that can cause these similar symptoms of ADHD is wheat(there are others, but my son is allergic to wheat). It sounds crazy but my son did not have the typical allergic reactions, He just couldn't focus sometimes or act hyper. I would suggest to have Food allergy testing(drawing blood is the best way),wheat allergies can cause depression also. My Sister works at a sleep lab and she's always telling me that a lot of children are sleep deprived and are wrongly diagnosed with ADD when they really need is sleep. 12 hours, there's a part of the sleep cycle that they need to grow. We also learned just recently that My son has delexia, that also has a hand in how fustrated they are and then act out. I don't know how well your son does at school acedemically, but I know that can play a part also. Good Luck, and never stop until you find the answers.

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Something else to consider on his school work is he may need more advanced curriculum. Gifted programs move faster and may keep him more engaged. 90 percent of high school drop outs are gifted and just bored. Is this a possibility for your son?