I Suck at CIO...

Having known a number of babies who grew into toddlers who at some point simply started sleeping through the night with NO sleep training, and having co-slept with my own daughter until she simply didn't need that any more (a bit before the age of two, as I recall), and having also known a number of families who did CIO or other sleep training with younger kids, it seems to me that often sleep training is done when parents have become worried the baby will never sleep through the night on its own.

But it appears, at least from the few examples I've seen, that if that training isn't done, the child will eventually sleep through the night anyway. Don't know if you'll find that helpful or not.

I can highly recommend Dr. Sears Baby Sleep book, The baby Whisperer, and The No-Cry sleep solution. I don't have time to write all I would like right this minute but if you go back and look at my answers to sleep questions I have lots of info.

CIO is just not a good thing for anyone. Raises baby's blood pressure, floods their little system with stress hormones, upsets mom because it really goes against every mothering instinct most of us have. And I don't' think it really teaches a baby how to sleep. They need to be taught how to sleep not how to cry until they are exhausted and pass out.

We never did sleep training.

My son woke when he was hungry, scared, or uncomfortable. All 3 are easy to remedy. And as he aged grew more and more infrequent.

- As a nursing infant *general* wake times were 10, 1, (5 sometimes), 8.
- As a young toddler 12-24mo wake time was 1230 (food and diaper change)
- As a toddler he only woke at night during growth spurts or with a nightmare
- As a child 4-8.5 (aka present) he only wakes if he needs to pee, is in a growth spurt and is hungry, or with a nightmare.

We never had any problems with him getting up in the middle of the night... but we also kept him in his crib until 3.5. By the time we took the railing down, he was at a cognitive stage where he could actually understand "stay in bed". On the rare occasions he didn't... there was always a reason. Don't get me wrong... he was *able* to sleep out of his crib from 1.5ish onward (we travel), but the crib was useful when we weren't travelling. So why switch? Why deal with them getting out of bed 1000 times in a night because there is absolutely no impulse control?

I just put kiddo to bed when he was tired, fed him when he was hungry, comforted him to the best of my ability always, and disciplined as situations demanded (starting at about 1 was the first time kiddo landed on timeout for intentionally hurting someone).

I don't know... I've known a lot of babies and a lot of parents. In general it seems like tossing the books out and just paying attention to your own child and following your own instincts works out best for each individual child. Education is great (knowing what's developmentally normal), but we all become experts in our OWN kids. They all need different things for different reasons at different times. Watching those cues and following through just seemed to work out for the best in every family I've ever known who didn't have medical issues to contend with.

1) babies wake.
2) babies need to feed
3) your baby is normal
4) sleep training is for adults, not the baby.
5) Sleep 'patterns' are NOT static in babies nor children. I do not know, of any grown-up... that still sleeps the same way they did as a baby. Older kids/Teens/College Kids/grown-ups/Elderly... ALL go through differing sleep patterns, per age, per development, per life.

Sleep in a baby is NEVER static

6) Sleep in a baby... varies, per development, per age, per teething, per hitting milestones, per hunger, per colds, per Growth-Spurts, per MANY things. EVERYday.
A baby will NOT sleep all darn night.
7) Sleeping through the night, in a baby, means sleeping for about 5 hours straight. Without waking. So that means, if a baby goes to bed at 7:00pm and then wakes at 12:00midnight... they SLEPT good! It may be inconvenient for the Parent, but for the baby... that is a LONG time sleeping... until needing another feeding. THIS is normal.

8) my kids as babies... I breastfed. I fed on-demand 24/7 day and night. My kids as babies woke about every 2-3 hours at night. I nursed them. They grew like weeds and are very healthy.

9) My kids as babies woke a ton at night.... I just took it as this is what babies do. I went by their cues.
The way my kids sleep now at their ages of 4 and 8 years old... has NOTHING to do with how they slept or not, as babies. I did not do any sleep "training" on them. They are now, since toddlers, SUPER good sleepers at night.
I repeat... how my kids slept or not as babies... has NOTHING to do with how they sleep now......

10) ALSO, babies do what is called "cluster feeding" which means, a baby will even need to feed every.single.hour. This is normal.
Feedings and frequency & amounts... ALWAYS changes in a baby, per development and growth-spurts. THUS... you cannot 'schedule' feedings.

all the best,
Susan

I never did cry it out. All four are well adjusted, normal kids. Babies need human touch.
When she is 18 she will not cry for you to come hold her hand at night, she will eat with a spoon and pee in the toilet. She will leave. That is when you will be wishing for more nights of needing you.

Sleep training is not important.
kids sleep through the night when they will.
My oldest didn't sleep through the night till she was 3 yrs old , she's also ADHD and still doesn't sleep well , it's an ADHD trait.
Her little brother slept through the night at around a year ( which is the average) I did nothing different between the two of them. I suddenly woke up one morning and realized they hadn't gotten up in the middle of the night.
Babies go through many sleep pattern changes. These can be caused by growth spurts, milestones, teething , or illness. It's not really worth trying to sleep train an infant.
It is bad for them anyway. Teaches them mom won't come and see what they need. My kids both co slept as babies for a short amount of time and both are independent kiddos. Neither slept with us until they were 2.

You don't have to cry it out to get your child sleeping through the night. I loved the book the no cry sleep solution. Basically you get them calm and almost asleep and then you set them down. If she starts to cry you start over again. Do whatever you have been doing rock her, pick her up, nurse and once she is almost asleep set her down. I know it sounds like it won't work but it does. Sometimes depending on how stubborn your child is it can take 20 times to get her to go to sleep but eventually she will realize that she is tired and that you aren't going to put her to sleep. The first time I did this with my son it took forever like an hour of me picking him up calming him down and setting him down drowsy but awake. The second night it took 50 minutes. The 3rd night it took 30 minutes. The 4th night it took 15 minutes and after that it took no more than 5 minutes for him. My son is 2.5 now and sleeps through the night every night (unless he's sick or something). We never made him cry it out. If you have any other questions send me a message.
A.

I'm not interested in CIO. Elizabeth Pantley's book is good and so is "Sleepless in America" by Kurcinka. You can get good sleep habits without crying, so why have them cry?? Seven months is very little still. You have lots of time.

Also, lots of parents don't do Ferber or CIO. Lots more do co-sleeping. It's not a big deal. Find out what works for all of you to get a good night's sleep and go with that.

I think that a child wanting to be with his parents is a good thing. I want my kids to trust us, to depend on us and to know we are there for them.

Hi R.,

I've never been able to let any of my kids CIO either. I just felt like it went against every fiber of my being and when I started listening to my instincts things worked much better for our family. Everyone was much happier and I'm pleased to say that 4 kids later, we have 3 that sleep through the night in their beds and our toddler is still in our room.

I recommend "The No Cry Sleep Solution," by Elizabeth Pantley and I also see that the Dr. Sears book has been suggested. That's a great resource as well. Good luck and don't beat yourself up over not being able to let her CIO.

http://www.amazon.com/No-Cry-Sleep-Solution-Gentle-Throug...

Hugs,
J.

I didn't do CIO with either of my kids. I hated it, they hated it. We all wound up stressed out, angry and sleep deprived. With my first I fell into the trap that all babies should sleep through the night by 6 months. It's a load of bull. I know a lot more babies that don't sleep through the night than those that do. And technically "sleeping through the night" is defined by 5 consecutive hours of sleep, not actually sleeping all the way through the night.
Babies cry for a reason. They are too young to cry to manipulate you. Trust me when I say you will KNOW when she starts to cry to manipulate. I think it was about 13 or 14 months for both my girls.
My oldest starting sleeping through the night at 10 months and my youngest was at about 13 months. I just let them determine when they were ready. With my oldest, one night she just slept all night long. There wasn't any magic. My youngest is a bit needier than her older sister. She loves to be held and snuggled and would be perfectly content to sit in my lap all day. We did a bit of sleep learning with her. When she cried, I would pick her up, rock her and hum her a song. When she was calmed down, I would lay her in her crib (still humming) and stroke her head until she fell asleep. She's been sleeping through the night pretty consistently for about 3 months now. There are times when she'll wake up and fuss, but she usually goes right back to sleep.
How far away from your bed is her crib? My youngest was in our room until she was 12 months old. We had her crib right next to our bed. When she woke up, I'd just pull her into bed with us.
The bottom line is this: No doctor, book author or so-called expert lives in YOUR house with YOUR family. So, you need to do what's best for YOU. If sleeping in the same bed works for you, then go for it. If putting off sleep training until your daughter is really ready, then go for it. Don't worry so much about what all the books say.
I think we are too heavily dependent on books. We've forgotten to listen to our Motherly Instinct. So, go with your gut on this :)

Hi R.
I was never a fan of CIO,sucked at it as well lol
I think once you have a balance and not let the kids Completely rule the house,all will be fine.
B. k

We didn't do CIO. Oh, that's not true... She would wake up in the wee hours and there was a time we thought we should be slow to respond, in an attempt to see if she would self-soothe--turns out she had a stomach virus and had vomited in her crib... Several months later, I tried it again for a phase when she was fighting her nap--only to discover after a stretch of prolonged crying that her arm had gotten stuck between the crib slats. That was the end of CIO for us. If she needed us, we responded. If she woke up scared in the middle of the night, we responded. I saw it as a trust issue: no matter what time it is, we are there for her.

My only suggestion to you is not to let her sleep in your bed. Ever. Once she does it once, she will demand sleeping with you every night--and as she gets older, it will be 10 times harder to get her to sleep in her own bed. Don't let her be the 2 year old that eventually turns into the 5 year old who can't sleep the whole night in her own bed. That's not good for her development and it's definitely not good for your marriage.

Good luck.

My daughter slept with us untill she was 18 months old. At 18 months I decided to put her in a pack n play in my room. It only took 3 days of letting her cry it out to get her to sleep in the pack n play. I would of course not be in the room while she was crying it out. So it is possible to do it in the same room. She was older though.

I can't really tell you if it's easier getting a toddler to sleep through the night/self-soothe vs. a baby...my motto has always been "start as you mean to go on." For me, it was always easier to nip bad habits in the bud (ie, if you don't want them sleeping with you when they're 5, don't bring them to bed with you when they're 5 months. Having said that, I do know a couple who let all 4 of their children co-cleep and eventually got them to sleep well in their own rooms, but I have no idea how they did it or if it was difficult.) I'm one of those people who is NOT a happy camper if I don't get enough sleep, so the earlier I taught my kids to sleep through the night and self-soothe, the better, lol. Every child is different. CIO worked well for my first, but not so much my 2nd. I think I mostly did what the Baby Whisperer book said with her: give her two good feeds an hour apart right before bedtime, sing her a lullaby (as part of the routine), put her in her crib while she was still awake, and walk away. If she cried, go back and pick her up, but just until she stops crying. The second she quit, I'd put her back in her crib, and if she started crying again, I'd pick her back up, only to put her back down two seconds later... The first couple nights took a while (in the book she actually counted how many times she picked the baby up each night; each successive night took fewer times) but within a week or two she wouldn't cry at all when I put her down. If she woke up in the middle of the night to eat I'd feed her and start the process all over again. I'd also rock her and sing her a lullaby (albeit a different one) right before she took naps, so she got used to associating my singing with her sleeping. Whatever you do, just be consistent, and don't expect it to work after one night.
Oh yeah, I also noticed that a lot of people were saying your baby's bedtime is probably around 7:30, but I've never put my kids to bed that early. I've always put mine down around 9-10pm, that way I can better sync my sleep schedule with theirs, and they sleep in longer, so I can too. But it really depends on (and helps!) when your child is READY to go down for the whole night. GL!

Good sleep habits can effect the whole life of the child. Sleep, particularly some small segments of sleep, are when human growth hormone are released, and the lack of good sleep can actually permanently effect your child's growth. And poor sleep/not enough sleep actually literally (temporarily) effects a person's IQ. These are scientifically documented phenomenoms (sp).

All that being said, I understand your struggle, and you are not alone. But your child does need to learn to soothe herself to sleep, and the CIO method is the "tough love" approach.

For us, my sanity and ability to focus safely and effectively were being effected by poor sleep due to sleep interruptions, and co-sleeping or other options did not work. So, I stuck with CIO (DH helped immensely, especially the first time). We did it the first time when our LO was 7 or 8 months; then again just recently. It was hard, but the better sleep we are all experiencing has made it sooooooooo worth it. But that was just my experience, so it's not necessarily true that it will be the same for you & your family.

However, just because you choose not to do this transition now doesn't mean you can't do it later, in your way on your time... It just is different to here a 7m old crying, vs. a 2yo same "Momma come. Baby sad! Momma hug baby!" in the middle of the night.... I think the fact he can actually say the words makes it harder. LOL.

You may be able to transition your little girl slowly to her own bed/room over time in a more gradual, less traumatic way.... but it will likely take a lot longer and as a result you'll have a longer period of poor sleep for you (and maybe baby and/or hubbie).

I wish you luck.... I wish there were a quick easy solution for baby/toddler sleep issues!!!

I think it depends on what you are using it for. Both of my kids slept "thru the night" WAAAAYYY before 6 months. (My son by 3months, my daughter by 7 weeks - they were sleeping more than 7 hours straight). I never did "CIO" during the night. But then, they only woke after 7 hours or more, so it only took a minute to see what they needed, deal with it, and they went back to sleep. We only used "CIO" (the Ferber method) to get them down at bedtime. It only took 3 nights for my daughter (didn't know about it with our son, and he was a NIGHTMARE to get to sleep at bedtime. I did EVERYthing wrong with him regarding bedtime). Once they learn to go to sleep on their own at bedtime, the middle of the night wakings follow the same pattern/routine, regardless of how often they wake. For us, at 6 months when we did Ferber with our daughter, she was sleeping all night (well until 6 am or so) anyway, so middle of the night wakings were only for ear infection or other illness issue.

Doing CIO when they go down for the night, I would assume that there isn't anyone else in the bedroom at that time... it's what, 7:30 pm?

CIO doesn't work for everyone. My first son - no way, didn't work, made things worse. My second son - worked like a charm, because he is waaaaay more laid back, so he would only fuss for about 5 minutes then just fall asleep.

I think only you can determine whether or not sleep training is important. For me and my family, sleep training is important. I need to have some time to myself at the end of the night, and I need to sleep through the night. Obviously things happen - thunderstorm, kids get sick and they will wake up, but for the majority of the time I need them to be able to fall asleep w/o much of a fuss and stay sleeping!