How Do I Chose Between Two kids....very Worn Down

OK, I don't know what to say that won't sound mean - I am NOT trying to be harsh, but I almost cried reading your post - for your son, not for you. Several things stood out for me that indicate you are as much a part of this issue, possibly more, than your son is. Here goes: Your expectations of the independence of a small child were out of wack - never played alone - they don't till they're older than 3. Bucked when the going got difficult when he was little - DUH - he was little, learning, and need to be TAUGHT, not expected to perform.

"I spent many years working on a dream...exceptional child" - yes, your DREAM, not the reality. Did you not expect that your child would not pick up on the fact that he was never good enough for you? Why bother being who he is, being his best self - it's not what YOU wanted. You have an AVERAGE KID - OH my god, the humanity, how can you ever survive the humiliation! You are destroying your child and blaming him for it. From your attitude that he is worthless because he is average, I'm not surprised that he is spacing and looking for escape - he's probably unbelievably depressed because he knows you hate him because he's not what you wanted.

BUT your so what happened made me flinch. Not all kids are meant to go to a typical college. You mention he likes drawing/cooking but that won't make him successful. Drawing=advertising/marketing/architecture, etc. Cooking? He could go to cooking school, learn to be a chef, if he's really good, he could work anywhere in the world or start his own restaurant. I understand he's been a difficult kid, but in the first sentence you basically said he's worthless and what he's interested in is worthless. If he's picking this up all the time, that may be part of the reason he's not connected.

You are expecting a level of drive from a 13 year old that is unreasonable. You are expecting him to have YOUR personality and not his own. Please get some counseling for yourself so you can connect with the REALITY of your child, and of what you're doing to him. Let him be a kid, get him some help to deal with depression. He's in the middle of puberty, and that's a whole other issue in itself.

24 moms found this helpful

I actually feel sick to my stomach after reading your post. How can you view your own children in such narrow-minded terms of potential acheivement? Look, we're clearly VERY different people here...but that's sort of the point, isn't it? Everyone is different!

Growing up, I never did well in school. I was unmotivated, uninterested, and rarely did my homework. I was a disorganized day-dreamer that would rather be outside playing than stuck in a stuffy classroom on a beautiful day. It wasn't until highschool "electives" that I found my interest (and talent) in the fine arts. You see, I am an extremely creative person with a vivid imagination. And both of those things make it difficult to sit through lectures or focus on mundane tasks...to this day I still struggle with that! But you know what? It's simply who I am. And I am an intelligent and well-adjusted human being. My parents (who could NOT be more different than me) have always been accepting of my personality and interests. And now, I'm married to an incredible man and able to stay home with my children and run a successful side business as a photographer. In recent years, I have discovered an aptitude for music and writing that I never even THOUGHT to explore as a child and desperately wish my parents had encouraged that in me from a young age.

My point is this: your son is clearly different from you and your husband, you've acknowledged this. To you, that makes him less special because what you appear to value most is success and achievements. You appear to view your children as little trophies that you can place in a cabinet and display to all of your friends/family....except for your oldest who can barely manage a cheap bronze medallion.

What's really sad here is that we're talking about human beings, not trophies. Not dogs that you groom and train and take to the national show, and certainly not machines that you can program and fit into a nice little box that they will never try to get out of.

We're talking about children that need your unconditional love and devotion. DEVOTION. Do you understand what that means? That means that you're supposed to think your kid is the most incredible thing walking around on two legs. That they have the cutest face and the most adorable giggle. You're supposed to LOOK for things to brag on, even if it's not grades. Because there's always something good about a kid. There's ALWAYS something they can excell in if given the opportunity and support to explore it.

My best advice to you (other than seriously rearranging your values and priorities as a parent) is to lighten up on the academic pressure and focus on finding your son's true interests. Make sure he graduates, of course, but it won't be the end of the world if it's with *gasp* AVERAGE grades.

As an average person, I welcome him to the club.

22 moms found this helpful

Wow. Poor kid. You have set your sights so high for him and he will never live up to them because he is going to think he is not good enough.

Drawing -
Book Illustrator
Art Teacher
Art Therapist
Art/Museum Curator
Architect
Art Historian
Art Buyer
Photographer
Sculptor
Entrepreneur
Medical Illustrator
Television Graphics Specialist
Exhibits Specialist
Jewelry Designer
Art Director
Printmaker
Potter
Painter (Artist)
Stained Glass Artist
Art Appraiser
Illustrator
Visual Journalist
Web Page Designer
Graphic Designer
Fashion Illustrator
Animator
Advertising Artist
Industrial Designer
Set Designer/Illustrator
Freelancer
Fine Art Restorer
Cartoonist
Multimedia Specialist
Digital Artist

And with cooking there are probably hundreds of things he could.

You and your husband need to take a look at yourselves. :-(

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I ditto Faye W. I felt so sad for your son I almost cried. I cannot believe I actually read this. There are so many people out there with children who are suffering, or are mentally impaired, or have no arms or legs or no sight and you feel this way because your child is AVERAGE? My children are so special to me, one has an engineering degree and the other works in a deli. And that is because those were THEIR choices. I am to this moment madly in love with both of them and cannot in this great earth picture a set of parents who would be like this. This may get deleted But what is wrong with you people?

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First off, your post made me cry. I feel for both of your children. They will never be good enough for you and that is just sad.
Second, how do you not have enough "time" for your 4 y/o when your profile says you are a sahm??? You need a nanny? If you oldest is in school you have all day to spend with your youngest. I don't get it. How do you "choose"?!?!? WTH?! YOU DON'T! You have 2 kids and they both deserve your love and attention.

17 moms found this helpful

Wow. I wouldn't want to be your son. Either of them. So very, very sad. I really think you need to talk to a professional.

17 moms found this helpful

Wow. Is this for real? I try so hard to be non-judgemental on this forum because parenting is a hard job and we all do what works for us. But this is unreal! Seriously, you feel like you've wasted your time and sacrificed your career for your child? Get over yourself. If you think you're "successful" you are sorely mistaken. Not because your kid isn't going anywhere, but because you've completely missed the boat on what parenting is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be about helping our children develop and grow into who they are - not who we think they should be. And we are to help them feel loved and secure and perfect, no matter who they are. You've failed miserably. Step up to the plate and be a mom. Your child will only be happy if he finds his own passion and follows that. Being untrue to yourself so that you fit into someone else's ideal of "successful" is a recipe for disaster. Wouldn't you rather your child be happy than fit your definition of successful and be miserable? Teens get lazy - it's just what they do. Let go, step back, and let him be who he is for a while. Encourage his talents and dreams, even if you think they're hobbies. There's nothing wrong with him being a cook or a chef at a restaurant. It'll provide enough to live off of and he'll be happy. You're selfishly worrying that this is reflecting poorly on you. Get over it.

17 moms found this helpful

Yikes, sounds to me like you are squashing your own child's hopes and dreams and efforts because they do not mirror your OWN hopes and dreams and efforts.

At the risk of being sarcastic, the good news for him, is he WILL eventually escape from your stranglehold, although it will take him decades and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of therapy to forgive you.

You post is littered with MAJOR control issues on your part. I think YOU would benfit from therapy. If you already go, then you need a new therapist, it's not working.

Your younger child just may be the 'successful' one since that one is being raised by someone other than you.

It breaks my heart to hear his interests are not supported. It does not surprize me in the least that he is unwilling to 'please' you. You are completely missing his childhood wishing he were someone else.

You need to work with who he is, not who you think he should be.

Jeesh, I wish I knew your kid, then maybe he'd get some of the love, support, warmth, and appreciation for all the GOOD attributes he has!

Sorry, just callin' it like I see it.

:(

16 moms found this helpful

Wow.
It seems to me that your own dreams of having an "exceptional child" are so dashed, you can't see your own son for what he is. A human being. An individual.
Do you honestly believe that only a child with the potential for eclipsing his parents in intelligence is worth the time and trouble? And anything else is "fruitless"?
You have an average B student and he's basically not worth your time because of all the effort you put into him and that's only as far as he gets?
I'm sorry, but I feel sorry for your son.
If he got straight A's, would that be good enough for you? My guess would be no, because he might have to really work at it instead of it coming naturally, in which case he would still be a disappointment to you.
Listen to yourself.
Your son will never amount to anything. He's only ever going to be average at best. Give up already. Spend your energy on the child with "promise" according to whatever your definition of that is.

Can you see how wrong that sounds?

Maybe you should lighten up. Maybe you don't have to hover. Maybe you don't have to do anything but let your son be "average" and be happy about it.
You talk about his "null" achievements and how you are depressed because he's not looking to be anything special.
Why would he?
If he can't be special by virtue of being your child, what's left to even try for?

You are so bound up in your perceptions of excellence. You can't get past comparing your children.
Can you see the beauty in a flower that isn't perfectly symetrical?
Can you see the beauty in a kid who is creative and a dreamer as opposed to analytical and "booksmart"?
What makes one more worthy of your time and love than the other?

I'm not overly religious, but God made everything perfect in it's own way.
Put things in perspective.
What if your child didn't have the use of his legs?
Would he be less worthy of being carried and loved by you no matter how heavy he was?

~What we must decide is perhaps how we are valuable, rather than how valuable we are.

F. Scott Fitzgerald

I hope your son can find value in himself.
He's going to need to.

Don't mean to sound harsh, but maybe you should just leave him alone and give him a chance to at least do THAT for himself.

OMG. "He likes drawing and cooking which are not things that are likely to make him very successful".
Hmmm.
Is there anything he DOES like that would be good enough for you?
Seriously.
Wolfgang Puck is pretty successful even though he is just a cook.
Frank Lloyd Wright did okay with his love of drawing.
Your son is 13. What do you want from him?
It doesn't sound like you care what he wants for himself.
I usually agree with Riley, and was shocked at the prep school thing, but maybe it would give him a chance to flourish outside of your expectations.

I don't know. Are you the fricking Rockefellers, or what? Will you be social outcasts if your son isn't a Rhodes scholar?
Let your son be a kid. He'll be grown and gone before you know it.
In 5 years your second child will only be 9 and you can devote all your attention to the special one.

I mean no offense. I just don't understand.

16 moms found this helpful

I think family counseling may in order here. It sounds as if you have a warped sense of expectations and that is why your son is refusing to 'perform' at the level you expect. It is your approach, not your son. If you would allow him to express himself through his own interests you may be pleasantly surprised with the results. Such as, encouraging his interest in cooking and drawing, then you may see him begin to excel in other areas too. When you decide to change your expectations and approach, you will see a positive change in your son.

UPDATE: You still don't get it. We heard you loud and clear as to what you expect from your son. I'm sure he hears you loud and clear too - he's a loser. Kids know exactly what their parents think of them. He may very well be an average person and that is okay, just not for you. Again, when YOU change, he will change. I feel sorry for your son :(

UPDATE 2: I see where your son gets his stubbornness. You are the problem, not him.

16 moms found this helpful

Have you really not opened your eyes to the whole world? I ask this cause you mention that your son likes drawing and cooking yet you don't see those as successes? I'm utterly baffled at that. Turn on Food Network on your tv or go through any cooking section of your local stores. Look at some of the names on those cooking items. Or some of the names on some of the top selling cook books. I can go on and on about that. There are some wildly successful chefs in this world.
Now turn around and walk through some of your local art stores and museums. Or look at the name of the clothes you wear, the furniture in your house, or the rugs, or some of the movies, tv shows and again the list goes on. The things I listed at some point or another were drawings. Drawing can lead to wildly successful careers in a wide variety of areas ranging from houses, to cars to the clothing you wear and the list goes on.
I'm not trying to sound mean or harsh but you belittle the things that could possibly be his success.
Maybe encourage these things with him and you might just find the success you are so set on finding for him. Children should be allowed to grow up to follow their dreams and wishes not the ones of their parents.

15 moms found this helpful

My husband is a chef, and he is successful and satisfied in his work. He "grew into" the profession (no degree) and is very happy with what he does. I'd rather have a happy husband than a rich stressed out husband. I'm insulted by your insinuation that cooking isn't "good enough" for your child. He probably *seems* lazy because you don't encourage him in the things he's actually good at or LIKES to do, instead focusing on the fact that he isn't good enough for you.
I gave up my career, too, for my kids. That doesn't mean I get to dictate their lives or interests. I grew up with friends who had parents like you, and nothing they ever did made the parents happy. They ended up moving FAR away from their parents to escape the never ending criticism. Your post made me really sad for your kids.

15 moms found this helpful

Okay I have never been rude on one of these before and I am going to try to bite my tongue and try to not come across as rude but I think you are being far too hard on your child. Why is success such a huge factor in your family. He is probably terrified that he will never meet your expectations and not be GREAT at everything. I wouldn't try if the fear of disappointing my parents over THEIR expectations. If he pursues cooking he could realize that he wants to go into business and open up his own restraunt. That is successful to me. You are not giving him the opportunity to be successful at anything he likes but what you want him to be. I honestly would hate to be your child. A parent shouldn't have such high expectations of their child. Maybe he still holds your hand because that is the only time he feels loved instead of pushed for greatness. Keep it up and the older he gets the more he realizes that he is a loser and he is only so because he cannot meet the expectations of his parents. He could turn to drugs and just rebel because of the pressure of what is expected of him. I feel for your son I really really do. My average child is happy and loved and I love him for being average.

ps from reading your previous posts it sounds like your husband is very controlling and in one post you asked about what happens if the police are called on an abusive situation. It sounds like you have a lot more problems than a average child and that you need help and out of this relationship.

pps I keep coming back to your question and re-reading and every time my jaw drops. I cannot believe more moms aren't blasting you for how rude you are to your child you are "depressed that he will not be anything special" are you effin kidding me. The nanny spends more time with your younger kid, ummm you older one is in school all day what is the nanny doing with your child during this time while you are a stay at home mom? Your husband gets physical with your son (this just needs to stop hes physically abusive and you sound emotionally abusive this poor kid has no chance) And you think the younger one can possibly eclipse you and your husband by being smarter than you both. Right now you how you are speaking of your child doesnt seem like it would take much to eclipse you and your abusive household. Im done with this post you have disgusted me.

15 moms found this helpful

Sorry, but my only "thought" is "are you kidding me"?? First, I don't "choose" between my 5 children. I love them all more than life itself, and it would just never occur to me to think one was better than the other, or more worthy, or more special. Second, I love them all unconditionally, because that is a mother's JOB. To me, they are all the best thing that ever happened to the world, and I just cannot understand how a mother would think otherwise. Third, sorry to sound harsh, but I think you need major counseling. And BOTH your boys will likely be in therapy most of their adult lives. Children are not "winners" and "losers" as you state (I cannot believe you actually speak of them in such terms)-- they are your children, and if you do not love them unconditionally, who will? Wow, sorry, I have never been so floored by a post on this site before.

15 moms found this helpful

Your letter made me sad. I'm a teacher and I see kids all the time whose parent's seem so disappointed in them just because they aren't "the best." Guess what? Not every kid can be the best. But the kids who are the happiest are the kids whose parents believe that they're the best anyway.

Your child does not exist to fulfill your dreams. He is his own person. You write that he likes drawing and cooking, but you don't encourage him in those aspects, because you think that those things aren't careers. But lots and lots of very happy successful people do make careers out of those things. One of the saddest students I ever taught really really wanted to be a hair stylist, and her parents were insistent that the school do everything to enable her to go to Harvard. She didn't want to go to Harvard, didn't have the drive, and it was a constant source of tension for everyone in her house. She was unhappy, her parents were unhappy, her siblings were unhappy. If only her parents had realized that their dream for her wasn't her dream for herself, life would have been much more pleasant.

I suggest that you see a family therapist. There seems to be no way that your child can give you the "return on investment" that you want. Hopefully a therapist can help you understand that you can't necessarily "fix" your son, because he's not broken, but you can fix your relationship with him.

I'm sorry if this letter comes across as harsh. I've just seen too many kids who spend 4 years of HS miserable and waiting to escape their parents' expectations. There is nothing a teacher can do for a kid who inherently feels like a disappointment. Please please don't do that to your son.

14 moms found this helpful

Wow. I am so glad that my husband's bosses don't consider his culinarly talents just a hobby and continue to pay him big bucks for cooking at their successful NYC restaurant. Instead of attending a regular university/college my husband attended the French Culinary Institute. He loves to cook, loves his job, and is very happy.

The same goes for my old high school friend who has turned her doodles and sketches into an incredibly successful graphic art business here in NYC as well.

I'm not even really sure how to answer this post because so much of it is upsetting.

Not all children are gifted. You can not make a child gifted just because you and your husband are driven people. It would be a shame to continue to let your older child know that you don't think he is exceptional. He should be exceptional because he is your son.

I sincerely hope that you are not letting him know that you don't think that he is special. What a blow to a young boy to know that his mother, of all people, doesn't think he is special. This attitude toward thim will most definitely affect his self esteem now and in the future. Without a doubt.

Turning away from him because he doesn't meet your academic expectations and letting him know that his little brother is more important because you consider him to be smarter is just shocking and kind of cruel in my opinion. If you consider your four year old a winner because he is coming across as bright do you then consider your older child to be a loser?? If so that makes me incredibly sad for your older child. Oh...and everyone considers their three and four year olds to be incredibly bright. I'm just saying....

I thought with parenting came unconditional love and support. It's quite the interesting message you are sending to both of your boys. Shouldn't the message be that you are there to support them, love them, and accept the person they are growing up to be? Did you only have them so that they could be just as or more successful than you are your husband?
I know one of the reasona I had my son because I was looking forward to sharing all of my love with him and making his childhood a happy and fulfilling one.

I am so sorry that your marriage is suffering because of this. How awful. Again, I hope that your older son is not aware that this is happening because you and your husband are so disappointed with his.....What did you call it?.....Oh yeah!.....His null achievments.

It kind of sounds like neither your husband or yourself thinks that there is anything special about your son and that he is a failure at the age of 13. Wow. I guess you are just creating a self-fulfilling prophecy for him then.

I suggest you look into counseling not just for your son, but for your whole family.

Good luck.

13 moms found this helpful

I didn't read all the posts but so far agree with the ones I've read that you need to get some counseling yourself. Your post reminds me of why people shouldn't rely on their children to fulfill them. I adore my children and basically take no time for myself bc I work FT so any nonwork time belongs to them but I am constantly mindful that they are their own persons and expecting their lives to turn out a certain way is setting myself up for potential disappointment. My husband is technically gifted, I have several advanced degrees and earn in the top 1% in the country so we have reason to expect our children to be "successful" but that is a very dangerous expectation in my book. You've already gone down this path for 13 years but it's not too late to take a step back. I work with some very wealthy people and they're not necessarily happier than less well off people. As a matter of fact, I just read last night in an article that wealth does not determine happiness. You're probably a good example. You see to be well off financially yet tortured. You have a nanny and mention something about needing a cleaning person if you add a tutor - what the heck do you do all day?? It's very possible your son is reacting to the pressure you put on him as well as not having a good role model in you. The way you describe how to chose between your sons strikes me as a bit crazy. If any child is as gifted as you say, they don't need all this attention - they'll be fine. And you're doing the same thing w/ your younger son - labeling him already. He's so smart etc. Everyone thinks that of their kids!! And think of kids who come from WAY less attention, coddling and pressure who excel. Maybe that's the reason they excel... My brother-in-law was a bit of the golden child in his family and guess what - he developed a severe mental illness in college and is on state aide. Imagine if his mother had put all her eggs in his basket or any of her children. My SIL went to an Ivy league college yet is broke and never happy. There are so many formulas for success and happiness that you have to stop harping on how you want things to be. You mention he likes art and cooking - imagine how shot down he feels that you say no to that. There are lots of wealthy chefs out there btw! Maybe you have good reason to be frustrated but you have to realize that there are different ways to be happy and people are different and you're going to drive your son away if you keep these feelings. I am SO grateful that my parents guided us but end of the day let us chose our own paths. And make sure this is about your son's life vs how you feel he reflects on you and how competitive you are with your friends and their kids etc. I think you started this whole process with dangerous expectations but it's not too late to change them.

12 moms found this helpful

this is breaking my heart.
YOUR dream to have an 'exceptional' child is getting in the way of appreciating the child you have, and fostering whatever dreams HE has for himself. 'average' is not 'bad' and whatever stellar qualities he has are being overlooked or squashed because he's not stellar in what YOU want him to be.
no wonder he's angry and unmotivated.
he loves art and cooking, but that's not good enough for his mother.
oh, so sad sad sad.
i sure hope you have a change of heart and figure out how to nurture the child you have, not some fantasy kid.
khairete
S.

12 moms found this helpful

You are absolutely setting your 13 year old son up for failure, not only in academics, but also in life. You are regularly reinforcing to him that he is only worth his academic achievements, which are below your standards, so his sense of self worth is systematically being crushed. In my humble opinion, you need to stop equating your son's value as a person with his academic achievement. I get that you want him to be successful, we all want our kids to succeed in something and be productive, but I think you would be wise to broaden your ideas about what makes a person successful. He is getting a very clear and painful message that if he does not excel in school, then he is worthless to you, so much so that his father gets *physcal* with him for not being what you as his parents desire. What an awful message to receive from one's parents, the people who are supposed to love you unconditionally. That kind of crushing message from one's parents from such an early age will never *make* him succeed. The feeling of being worthless will undoubtedly hold him back for the rest of his life.

How sad, you say your little one could be a winner, implying that your older son is a loser. I am having a really hard time stomaching that there are really parents out there that think like you. Are you ever even thankful that you have 2 healthy children?

I assume you love your son, although in your entire post, and in your updated comments, you never say it. What would be so bad about just loving him as he is? Would that be so hard?

I sense that there are perhaps some cultural issues going on here that I don't understand. No offense intended, just stating that this may be a cultural difference/expectation that is outside of my experience, so I just can't understand it. I don't know.

As for Riley's response, I see where's she's coming from, and I don't disagree with her analysis of the role your son is playing, fighting for mediocrity, and also that he's afraid to give his best and fail because that would be crushing, whereas, if he doesn't try and fail, well, even if your disappointed in him, it's not that bad because he knows he didn't try. That may be some of what is going on in your situation. And I also don't disagree that getting your son out from under your watchful eye over his academic success, breaking him out of the cycle he's in - you demanding success - him failing to meet your expectations, might allow him to breathe a little and possibly find some success on his own. I am a little surprised, though, that she didn't comment on how the way your son is being negatively regarded in your family and what that's likely doing to him psychologically.

11 moms found this helpful

I am so sad to hear this...sad that you cannot love your son unconditionally. You son's behavior is your creation and you have yourself to thank for it. You have pushed him so hard and placed huge and unreasonable expectations on him....ones that do not mesh with who he is as a person but who YOU are. You need to take a step back and look at yourself before it is too late for your relationship with your son. And may I also advise counseling for YOU, not him You are the one who needs it. I have no doubt that your same son, if raised in a house with parents who love him unconditionally, would prosper. His behavior is a direct response to how you have treated him. Don't you see that by NOT succeeding he is either conciously or subconciously getting back at you for driving him so hard and being constantly disappointed in him IT is probably the only control that the poor kid has in his life. Or even worse-his not trying to succeed is because he does NOT want to grow up to be like YOU or your DH. He has seen firsthand what financial 'success' does to a person. Please get yourself some help before it is too late.

11 moms found this helpful

I’m sorry. I haven’t read the other responses but I’m sure you have received a ton of good advice.

However, I really had to comment on your “What Happened”. When you say = “Unfortunately my 13 y/o likes drawing and cooking which are not things that are likely to make him very successful. I told him that those are good hobbies or side interests and that he needs to do something better than that.”

That made me really sad. I couldn’t imagine telling my kids that what they loved to do was “a great hobby…” if they were wanting to take that and make it a career.

Just wanted to let you know that one of my good friend’s husband is a chef in a very posh restaurant. She is able to be a SAHM, 4 kids and they live in a very nice house. All that on a chef’s salary….

Best of luck with your precious boys!

10 moms found this helpful

Maybe instead of deciding which child you want to to help, you should get some help yourself. My heart aches for both your children because eventually your 4yo isn't going to live up to your standards of perfection and your 13yo never even had a chance.. So sad. I really do think you should talk to a professional.

10 moms found this helpful

Excuse me? I have a friend who has worked as a chef at some of the top resteraunts in San Francisco. I admire him, his creativity and after being around him for a few years, I would bet money he has a genius level I.Q. I've heard him describe what he does and it takes a lot of creativity, orgnization, and people skills. That said, your son is only 13 so he may or may not go in this direction as a life career but right now he is interested in it. I would imagine in Chicago there are opportunities for him to take cullinary classes. Since this is what he is interested in, use it to motivate him and inspire him. It sounds like he needs this, his life sounds like pure drudgery from what you've said in your post. Set him up for success at something! The further along he gets the more life skills he will learn. Cullinary Arts take a LOT of planning and orgnization. What is the worst that could happen? You are guinea pigs for his cullinary creations which aren't all successful or to your liking?

Also, your dissapointment and disdain for your older son is palpable in this post, I can only imagine what he picks up on and I hope you are able to see that your sons are two different people, both worthy of the best parenting they could possibly receive from you and THEY both have something special about them. I also don't understand why you think you need to spend time only with one of them. Can't you split your time? I know Moms who have more than one child with no help and they are able to do this, some while dealing with learning disabilities. Can you spend your time/attention with your 4 year old while your son is at school?

It seems what you are doing right now isn't working and you've tried it for a long time. I've heard a quote from Albert Einstien thrown around a lot lately and it may apply here, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results" Maybe family counseling is in order. Your son isn't the only one who has a problem. Your martyr attitude about his failure AT 13 (13!) and your husband blaming you...All the while pinning YOUR hopes and dreams about what a CHILD of YOURS should be on a 4 year old sounds dysfunctional and can't be serving anyone in your family well at all. I hope for all your sakes you are able to turn this around so you are much happier people.

The next morning.... This post has stayed in my mind because there is something missing in your lives and I figured out what it is. UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. You need to love and care about both your children NO MATTER WHAT. My MIL had 9 children. SHE LOVES THEM ALL! She knows their strengths and weaknesses but still LOVES AND CHERISHES THEM ALL. And with 9 you have to know that not all of them were successful right away but they are now in their own diverse ways.

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You told him that his interests in drawing and cooking are not good enough and he needs to do something better than that? I'm sorry, but that is SAD. Let him pursue his OWN interests for goodness sake! Did it ever occur to you that his idea of success is not the same as yours? If it isn't enough that he grow up to be a happy, loving, self-supporting member of society, than YOU are the one with the problem, not him. Why should he be motivated? His best efforts and pursuit of his own interests will never be good enough for you and your husband. Please see someone about your sadness.

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There are people in this world who work the mediocre, hard, labor jobs. People who would rather do a easy to get job, make a little, and call it a day. We NEED these people. They are the backbone of our society. If your son is a good person and harms no one then love him for who he is. Not all of us can be strait 'a' future doctors, lawyers and accountants.

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You NEVER choose between kids, I'm guessing your "successful career" wasn't being a parenting instructor.

You need help alright, but not from your nanny, you need parenting classes. I have a hard time believing that someone of your caliber doesn't realize that you're approaching this whole situation the wrong way.

BTW I consider myself very successful as well...guess what, my only passions other then my children are cooking and singing, as a child it was art! Your son would fit in great in my house.

After rereading your "what happened", it sounds to me like he might be crying out for your attention. Whether it be positive or negative....maybe you should consider that.
I'm thinking that if your filling your day with so much that you need a nanny for your 4 year old son, maybe your trying to do too much other stuff and
instead you should be more focused on fulfilling your duty as a parent.

EDIT: I keep coming back to this post and hoping after reading all the other women's posts that you would realize the error's or your ways. But, you just seem to make excuse after excuse and accept no responsibility for the mistakes your making. I'm so sad about this situation for the sake of your children, not because your dreams won't be fulfilled.

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Wow - it sounds to me like you and your husband need therapy. I really don't wish to come off as mean, but like many others who have responded to your post, I think it's awful that you feel this way about your children. Has it occurred to you that maybe you and your husband are the reason your thirteen year old isn't highly motivated? When someone, especially a child of 13, feels that he's a chronic disappointment, do you honestly think that he will be driven to excel? If you actually believe so, you have a lot to learn, regardless of how "driven" and "successful" you are.

It also sounds like you probably equate success with money and status. Rather than spend your days fretting that your sons may not grow up to be brain surgeons, maybe you should concentrate on raising happy, emotionally stable children. Giving our children guidance is one thing, but mapping out their lives based on what we want is controlling and unhealthy.

In reading your two posts, it's apparent that you and your husband harbor a lot of resentment towards your older son, and that's so sad. It also sounds like your husband needs some anger management. Please get some therapy for the sake of your children.

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I see that you already have a lot of responses here & I'm not going to read them all so I apologize if this is a repeat. I did read your full post as well as your 'so what happened'. While I understand that education and intelligence is the absolute most important thing to both you and your husband, it doesn't sound like you've asked or ever particularly care what is important to your son. You sound like you are ready to cut your losses with the older child and hope for a different outcome with your younger son, right? You do realize that all children are different, correct? That the simple temperment of both of your children varies wildly is just the way things work sometimes.

It's your JOB to love them both equally and unconditionally. So your eldest likes drawing and cooking but you don't think those are going to yield him a successful career? Seriously?? The fact that he is clearly more artistic and you and your husband are more intellectual just means that you don't understand how he thinks, but more importantly, that if he doesn't think like you, you can't be bothered with him. That may not truly be the case, but based on your post, it's certainly how you come off sounding. Imagine if your entire childhood the fact that you are education-oriented wasn't valued by anyone else in your family & how that would have made you feel. There is no less value to someone who is interested in the arts, but that's sure the message you're steadfastly sending to your young teenager!

It sounds like you & your husband & your oldest child need some family counseling to get to know & appreciate each other for who you are as people.

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Maybe your son feels your constant disappointment and has no motivation to try because he will never please you. That is a hard reality for a 13 year old. Maybe you ought to let your nanny spend some time with your older son. She might be better at showing support and affection. You can spend all your time and efforts on your "exceptional" child. Please, by the way, teach both your children how to use spell check. It is one way to exceed.

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Right now it is a race to get into the best HS then college? Really?

You need to stop and listen to your son. Sure, most chef's don't make a lot of money, but many do make a decent enough living on it. Sure, not all artists make a good living, but many web designers do.

Maybe college isn't for your son? If he is smart, then let his interests guide him. Trust that he will be successful. Do you know how much plumbers make an hour? Plumbing jobs can't be exported either. It sounds to me like you are treating your oldest like he is an incapable hack. Why should he act any other way?

And what is wrong with being an average B student? Let me tell you something, what a kid gets in school has very little relevance to their long-term success. I wish I could remember the name of the book, but a PhD believes the last thing you should do is encourage your children to get A's. Instead, encourage their interests, and let them run with them. If you do, they will be successful. If you get in the way, they will just keep on being average or failing.

You want your children' success to eclipse yours (your dream). They are people, not trinkets to show off. Besides, what is success? Who gets to define it? How do you measure it? Is it being a mother that doesn't care to listen to her children because they might not want to do what you want them to do? I hate to say it, but the problem here is you, not your son.

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I just saw your update, and I beg to differ. My cousin went to culinary school and has done very well catering events for large hotels. Furthermore, she's happy. Success is different to everyone, and kids have different personalities. There were times when my DH tried to teach his daughter some new thing and she balked, but if I did it, she did better. Maybe the thing to do right now is to to enroll him somewhere like Sylvan and take yourself out of the prodding so you don't have to leave your younger child with a nanny.

Maybe you also need to work on your own goals and ideas of success so that your artistic son can be considered an excellent person even if his dreams and talents aren't yours. He needs you to accept him for who he is, not who you dreamed he would be. Similarly, even though your 4 yr old seems to have different talents that are more in line with you, enjoy him. Resist the urge to turn him into the next big thing at 4 yrs old. Sure, challenge him and encourage him, but don't be one of those parents who thinks he's a failure if he doesn't do pre-cal in middle school (seriously, I know some). If you continue to push him around, he may decide that when he's old enough to move out, he won't be back.

It's OK if your son isn't an A student or likes to cook. I think if you accept that, your son will be more receptive to you and you will have a better relationship with him and have the relationship you want with his family down the road. He has some tough years ahead and will need a supportive family.

Some of my friends who were B students in HS have gone on to do great things - and some of the A students burned out and dropped out of college. There are many uncertainties in people's futures and many ways to measure a "good person".

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Hi,

I normally don't respond to posts, but I really felt a strong need to do so in this situation. I am both a graduate of a top Ivy League School and a graduate trained mental health professional that works with high functioning children and families. I'm also the parent of a "gifted" child. I'm sharing my background with you because I don't want you to think that I'm not speaking from professional and personal experiences.

That said, I think that you have already made a choice between your two sons. The first you have classified as "not good enough" and the second as "the right one". When parents make the decision to love their children conditionally it's a problem for the child and for themselves. Before you say that you love your children, "unconditionally" take a look at your behavior towards your oldest son when he disappoints you or fails to achieve a goal you have set for him. How do you think he responds to your change in demeanor, body language or the lack of enthusiasm you show. These are little things that you may not even realize that you're doing - but your oldest AND youngest son realize it. Your oldest son learns that he'll never be good enough to satisfy you and your younger will live in fear of the day when he actually does disappoint you.

Developing empathy for your children AND modeling it for them is probably the most important skill you can have as a parent. Your letter shows that you haven't been doing either. The long term consequences are negative for your sons and yourself. I strongly suggest you seek counseling to learn how to develop empathy for yourself and subsequently your children. Meanwhile, the excellent book, "The Drama of the Gifted Child" by Alice Miller, could give you some insight on how the long term affects of your behavior will influence your children.

Note, I did not mention your husband's behavior in this post. As a mother, you are responsible for your own behavior, thoughts and feelings regarding your son's "success", "achievement" , ect. Not your husband. He has made a choice about how he feels about your sons and you have as well. You can make a decision to change your outlook and behavior and become more child-focused or not. He needs to make the decision as well.

8 moms found this helpful

WOW! is my first thought of what I just read of your post & my 2nd thought is that it sounds like you & your husband resent your 13 yr. Old for not living up to your expectations & for you giving up a successful job to stay home & be a mom.. I have 3 kids 16 yrs,13 yrs,&7 yrs old the 2 teens are boys & I find it to be VERY COMMON for boys & girls to do exactly what your son is doing & I myself just went through the same thing with my 13 yr old & hopefully we learned a valuable lesson when he bad to dig himself out of the mess he got himself in to by not turning in homework that he did or by not doing the home work period or not going to class with proper materials even tho he had them in his locker, & I can tell you all day long what we did & what worked for us but that doesnt mean it will work for your son.. In case you weren't told no one ever said raising children was easy & yes it will cause problems in your marriage IF YOU ALLOW IT to & I have to say that if my husband blamed me like you dId your husband is blaming you then I too would resent my husband however I think by you & your husband angry with each other & your feelings are hurt doesn't help & it makes the issue with your son that much more harder.. From what I have learned so far with my own kids is that they will get tired of always being grounded & getting their phones or game systems taken away & altho your son may not do things the you or your husband do or would do it you have to allow him to grow & find his way of working through his messes he has created. & again if you expect both of your children to be like you or your husband then you will be disappointed the rest of your life. I personally feel that a parent should NEVER turn their back or just give up on a child just because the parent or parents are tired of dealing with the hardships of having a teenager, if you give up on him & put mote attention towards the 4 yr old who you will more then likely go through some of the same things your now 13 yr old is now going through, how would you feel if you were having all kind of changes going on with your body & your having feelings that you have never had before & some one just gives up on you? How do you expect him to believe In himself if you & your husband have already thrown in the towel on him at such a hard,difficult,scary, frustrating time in life. If you & your husband are so driven then maybe you should look at it as a challenge ? Maybe it is not your son who needs the counselor & maybe it is you & your husband are the ones that may benefit from going to a Counselor, & I'm not at all trying to be mean or anything so please don't take it that way.. Good luck & please don't give up on your 14 yr old, he is the child that needs you most right now not the 4 yr old that is flourishing just fine it sounds like..

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If you feel he is not earning the grades he could be earning, you should be having a talk with his teachers and considering the possibility that he has some kind of learning disorder or some other challenge that he needs to overcome. However, there is no reason your son can't be a writer, or a chef, or whatever, and be reasonably successful, if he has the talent and feels passionately about it enough to pursue it and work his tail off. Have you ever thought about asking your son what HE wants and what will make HIM happy, rather than what you think is going to make you and your husband happy? What if you had a child that was born with Down's Syndrome, or was autistic, or whatever? Would you just write them off or would you do everything in your power to help them be the best that they could be?

Equality is not treating different things equally - it is treating different things differently. Your older son is not a carbon copy of you and he is not a carbon copy of his brother. He is his own unique self. Nobody "chooses" between their kids - or at least they shouldn't.

There is a lot more to be successful in life than how much money you earn or what college degrees you hold. To think of your younger son as having potential to be a "winner" and your older son as being a "loser" is just setting him up for failure - it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy, because you are not appreciating your son for who he is.

Everyone has different talents and abilities, and the world needs chefs, artists, writers, etc. Who is to say he won't be successful as a chef? He can't open or own his own restaurant eventually? As long as he is able to be self-sufficient and pay his own bills without being a drag on society, who cares? Look at Anthony Bourdain - he is a successful chef AND writer, and has had his own cable TV show now for years!

I'm not surprised he is looking for ways to escape - he's probably sick and tired of his parents hounding him all the time. Maybe he has ADD and can't help the way he is. Unless you start looking at things differently, he will end up hating you guys for how you are treating him and resenting his brother for being "favored" over him (not to mention your younger son might feel the pressure to always be the "good" kid and never be allowed to make a mistake or mess up!). The feeling I get is that you see him and his accomplishments as a reflection of the both of you as parents, and if he does not "surpass" you, you have somehow "failed". You sound like you are trying to live vicariously through him, and that to me is incredibly sad and too much pressure to put on your child. He needs to know you love him no matter what and your love and approval is not dependent on him meeting your unrealistic expectations. If he feels he can't ever be good enough in your eyes, he will most likely give up trying to do anything, and is more at risk for turning to drugs, alcohol, etc. as a means to escape.

For the sake of your son - lighten up. Maybe read this post and some of the answers to give you some perspective on what "success" can really mean: http://www.mamapedia.com/questions/7552865614960918529

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Can you give attention to both your kids? I'm just wondering why you have to shut one out to help the other. People have more kids and seem to do a good job of raising each one.

My older daughter was an average kid -- which you seem to think is a bad thing. She excelled at softball, but that doesn't get people far in adulthood does it!?

Anyhow, she didn't go to college and is now a bookkeeper/payroll manager at a small company and doing quite well and enjoying her life -- she is taking horseback riding lessons with her little sister, snowboards, recently took in a stray dog and has it trained very well and has taken up crocheting. So, you see, average kids do ok too. You need to stop living for your son and let him live his life and find what makes HIS heart sing. In fact, cooking is an excellent skill that could take him very far in life. Maybe you could focus on that instead of being Debbie Downer about his averageness.

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Hi mama-

I am not going to read the other responses you have gotten so far, but, I see an aweful lot of pressure and dare I say, oppression? With such high expectations, I would be rebelling and disinterested in anything my parents were /pushing/ me into also!

You say you want the best for him. You say you don't want him to be mediocre. And, yet, the hobbies he has - drawing and cooking - areas which you recognize he has an interest in, are not "good enough" for you or your husband. Both of these areas have huge potential and both areas require other important skills which he will need - math, reading and all the other basics - even if he does not go into either hobby and finds another career. He is yet so young to be thinking sooooo long term - I mean marriage and supporting a family, geez! Knowing you are a planner person, maybe you need to actually embrace his interests and encourage some research into the types of careers these interest could lead to. By doing this, he might decide and/or realize (without your pressure) that there are certain things he needs to address and start taking personal responsibility for.

This post did strike a cord with me. I see a bit of myself in here in that when I came home with a 99 test score, my mother's response was always "what not a 100?". It drove me nuts and at some point it just defeats a person. If he has been getting a similar message (which it seems to be from your post), coupled with the fact that he cannot do anything unless you are hovering over him and pushing and forcing him, he is not accomplishing anything for himself and has never known the positive feelings of self-accomplishment. Once I got over the need for my mother's approval and decided that I would simply do the best I could and be happy for myself, things went a lot better for me.

Also, as a final note, despite the age differences, maybe it would help to be present with both children in the same environment (i.e. if you are doing homework with the 13YO, sit the 4 YO down to practice letter writing at the same time or work fractions in the kitchen with the 13 YO by cooking dinner together and let the 4YO stir the bowl). There are lots of opportunities to encourage learning for both children, if you only look for them.

Good luck.
~C.

PS. I am a certified PE working as a senior environmental engineer at a national firm. Things can work out in the end.

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ok to put this bluntly .
Some kids are just average.
That's me I was average in every way and even failed at some things.
The only thing I am good at is singing and even that I'm middle of the good section.
You can't force him to be exceptional.
If cooking and drawing is what he likes LET HIM DO IT.
He might be a great artist or chief some day.
HE'S ONLY 13.

edited to add:
All children can't be above average, then above average would become average. The world just doesn't work that way.

6 moms found this helpful

hey i just wanted to respond to your "so what happened". of course he needs to focus on his academics as well but please don't say drawing and cooking are nice hobbies only. if his passion lies there, you should really encourage it -- being dedicated to something sometimes helps academics b/c it teaches structure and dedication. in addition, he might be the next big chef or artist. so maybe get him a tutor for his academics but also encourage his interests and praise him for a job well done in any arena so he doesn't get down on himself and lose all motivation for anything in life.

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Wow! I think you and your husband should seriously consider therapy, bring you son too. I bet you will be floored to hear what he has to say in a safe place! Take a step back and reread what you wrote. What is important to you at the end of the day? Sucess and material objects or true happiness. What if your son does not want to be rich and sucessful. What if he is the happiest guy on the planet being an artist or cook? How could you belittle his joy in an activity?

Gosh I would like 5 minutes in your sons head to know how he feels been driving non stop by his parents, made to feel like a failure, that he has to live up to YOUR expectations to be something good in life.

Perhaps if you laid off and let him be and let him find himself rather than constantly being who you want him to be. Maybe if you spent some time with him other than constantly hounding him about school and what he should be.

Stop pushing! And you and your husband go learn how to encourage, modivate and support a boy in a HEALTHY WAY!

Uhhh my heart breaks for that poor boy!

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If he loves cooking, why can't he be a successful chef? Let him take some cooking classes as incentive to do better in school... Know this, you cannot make him like the same things that you & your husband do. Let him excel at the things that HE likes.

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Without the arts, we would be a very imbalanced society. We need people who love art, drawing, cooking, CREATING. We cannot all be nuclear physicists, nor should we.

My mother was an artist. In fact, she was an art teacher. She wanted to impart her love of art with children. And it has been studied and proven that children who do art and music often get better grades in school in the other subjects, too. By fostering your son's appreciation of things artistic, perhaps he will end up an art teacher? Or is a teacher not an ok profession?

The Culinary Institute of America is to chefs what Harvard is to lawyers. It is a prestigious learning institution that is highly selective and very expensive. Seems to me that this wouldn't exist if cooking were just a "hobby." Do you eat out at fine-dining restaurants? Chances are the head chefs there make more money than most people I know. I had a very successful business career and gave it up to stay home with my kids and I realized that if I could pick another career it would be a Pastry Chef. Does that diminish my success in the business field? NO. But it's another part of me that I hope I get to explore someday. I've enjoyed the classes I've taken at Kendall College of Culinary Arts in Chicago. They also offer chef-taught classes for kids.

Do not stifle your children and their passions. Each child is unique and has their own set of talents. Explore that! You may be surprised that your older son responds very positively in the aspects YOU deem important once you accept and foster the things that HE deems important.

Many people describe success not by a profession or how much money someone makes, but by finding something they love that they can imagine doing every day and being HAPPY, while hopefully making a living at it.

5 moms found this helpful

Hi,

I do understand your frustration. I suspect that you may not have recognized the particular way in which your child learns best. He is most probably reacting to the fact that you have, probably for years, been making demands of him to deal with challenges in a way that just does not work for who he is. Not every kid learns they same way, and your kid most probably does not learn like you, or your husband

It is pretty common for parents to expect that THEIR kid is going to learn the SAME way THEY do. This is not always the case. Your 4yr old does, but your older boy obviously does not. It is your job to figure it out, not just hammer away at the same thing and wonder why it doesn't work.

The fact that he likes cooking and drawing is great, and if you do NOT encourage him in this (or what ever reasonable interest he cares about) you stand a good chance of sending another very strong signal to his subconcious that what he feels passionate does NOT matter, and I can't think of anything that will derail a young mind more than that. Just because YOU can't imagine anyone having a financially successful life in either of those carreers, does not mean HE won't be able to succeed wildly with it. He most certainly will if he is driven, and kids get completely absorbed and focused when they care about what they are doing, AND they know their parents support them in the pursuit of their dreams. I personally know graphic artists, and art directors who make a fantastic living at some very prestigous companies. A good friend of mine is head chef at a very good restaurant that he is part owner of, and his house is bigger than mine.

With all due respect, I think you should see some kind of family therapist about how you deal with disapointment, resentment, and your fears of what you think will happen when the rules aren't followed (I'm guessing there were some pretty harsh concequences for you when YOU were young?). Also, if your son is included in the process, he may be able to voice some of his feelings about what your mismanagement of his 'learning style' is doing to him. A really good therapist should be able to get you and your son doing what is best for both of you. They fact that you are reaching out and open to all of our comments is a great sign that you are ready to change. I wish you well, and please be patient...with yourself. It is HARD to see through the filter of our own issues. You'll be fine, so will your son, it is just going to take some work in ways that will probably be new to you.

Hang in there, I wish you peace.

K..

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I sadly agree with a few of the responses I have read. My brother and I were total opposites; I was always a perfectionist. I never had less than a 4.0, went straight to college, graduated early, and am now a teacher. My brother just wasn't about school. He also loves to draw, and school was just not a priority. But you know what? We both turned out fine. My brother joined the Marine Corps the day he turned 18 and even though it was my parents wish (although they NEVER pushed us, or were disapointed in us) for both kiddos to attend college, they were so proud of him. He excels at his job. He is a machine gunner, which is EXACTLY what HE wanted to do. In fact, he is thinking of training and trying out for RECON or to become a sniper. He is damn good at his job and I am thankful for him and the countless others who did not choose college, but instead choose to defend our country. He knew that he needed the military to get him into shape, and they did (I'm not talking physical, I'm talking he knew that he was headed down a path in high school he did not want to go. he recognized he needed the strict, tough marine corps to help him get his life back on track) In fact, he does have dreams NOW of going to college but it is still not for a typical career. He would like to go to a special, very expensive school for graphic arts, gaming, etc. My husband never tried in school, even though he was very smart. He started tech school for CAD, got a job offer before he even finished his degree, and now is highly successful (by your definition) as the head engineer at a corporate office (funny thing is, he did not finish his degree. He is working on that now). I of course have hopes for my daughter, but to me, her happiness and what SHE wants to do with her life is far more important than doing what I want her to do. If she decides to attend college, great. If not, that's great to. There are many different ways to measure success. I do not think your son is a failure at all. I think he needs to be encouraged to find something that HE is truly interested in and then pursure whatever that may be. Just my two cents.

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I'm sorry you are going through this.

It would have been better if you had let your son fail for real to learn the lesson. Maybe then the school would have tested him. You really aren't doing him any favors because he won't be able to handle life on his own after high school.

I think you really should consider getting a private evaluation done. If there is a learning disability, perhaps it would come to light there. And you can show your husband that this isn't your fault.

I would also go to family counseling and DRAG your husband with you. He needs to understand that this is not your fault. You both also need to learn that not everyone is college bound. Not everyone can have a stellar career. His son may just need to do something less exalted in his life, no matter how much work you have put into him. Sometimes, kids finally learn when they become unhappy with their lot in life. Then they end up going to community college to try to get a better job. It might be hard on you guys because this isn't the kind of kid you wanted to have, but it is what it is.

I just saw your 'what happened' offering more insight. You said he likes cooking. I have a dear friend whose son sounds like yours except he also was oppositional defiant and more difficult than you can imagine. They put him in military school to try to turn him around, and in Feb his senior year, he quit school and moved to the beach with his friends. Yes, his parents were devastated. After a couple of years of odd jobs, painting houses, having roommates stick him with the rent, etc, he started getting his act together. He went community college and got his GED, took culinary classes, and studied to be a chef, because he likes cooking. In this bad economy, he has a good job as one of several chefs in a big restaurant. And they have finally accepted this and are proud of him, especially considering how bad things were the first few years of being an "adult". And yes, he comes back home now, is nice to the family, but understands that they will not support him - he has to support himself. It took them realizing that he would not fit the mould that THEY were trying to put him into - he had to find his own way.

Experience is the best teacher. That's probably what your son is going to have to have to figure out that he needs to work his life out on his own.

Meanwhile, get to work on your 4 year old's learning. Don't micromanage him like you did your older one. Let him do some of the leading here.

Get to a counselor - you and your husband really need to do that.

D.

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I have to wonder if this is a fake post. I can not imagine that a parent would freely label their child as "mediocre" and be disappointed in their child doing well in school socially and academically. If one feels comfortable enough to post this to a group of strangers then I'm certain your child hears and feels it too-- and is simply living up to this sad, sad label. I wonder what his label would be for your parenting style-- likely it would be a "creative" one. How offensive that you write about creative career paths as being nothing more than hobbies.

I think that you and your family would benefit from couseling if you want to maintain a relationship with your older son in the future. Perhaps a professional can teach you how to enjoy your son for who he is and that the true meaning of success is happiness. "Successful" people love what they do.

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I just finished reading Parenting with Love and Logic for Teens and highly recommend it.
I have not read many of the other responses. My two oldest children are very different and what works for one doesn't work for the other. It would seem that your techniques fit your youngest's personality and learning style much better than your older one. So my advice is to get new techniques, such as the Love and Logic approach. They both need you in different ways. At 13 is when they NEED to own their own decisions.
You and your son (and your husband) are frustrated. You have to somehow reboot. Let go of the past and work together towards a mutually satisfying solution WITH your son. Ask him how he would solve this problem. Maybe he can figure out how to incorporate math with drawing and cooking. Please feel free to contact me to talk more if you would like. My daughter's middle school emphasizes Responsibility (the student must own their actions - if they forget their homework, THEY have to work it out, not the parent - they will not accept it if the parent brings it in), Respect (your interactions with others, peers and parents AND parents respecting you as a person), Resourcefulness (being able to find what you need to succeed), and Responsiveness (being aware of the larger community/world and being a contributing member). There are so many complications in your story, but you love your boys and want the best for them; that is obvious. But the best may be very different for each of them and not what you think is the best. Continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results is, at best, unrealistic, so please think about trying something different, not just "giving up"

4 moms found this helpful

Cherry---You need to stop trying to make your son into something he is NOT going to be. Focus your efforts on finding what will draw his passion out of him. And for his sake, please love him for what he is. Hopefully you can still mitigate some of the damage that has likely already occured to his personal self-worth.

My husband is now a very successful engineer, son of an engineer and a school counselor. He tells me he was always getting the 'not working up to potential' comments in school. His youngest brother is probably much smarter than my huband but was always a bit of a concern to his parents growing up as he seemed to not want to 'achieve' in high school. Right now he has a masters in fine arts, working hard to 'sell' his art, he is a great father and yes, his wife is the primary breadwinner in the family, but he is no less of a success just because he doesn't earn a lot of money. His parents never questioned why he didn't pursue the same engineering path that his brother did, they just loved him and encouraged him to do the best at whatever he did do.

The point is...you can't make him into something he is not, and you simply cannot be disappointed that he is not what you thought you wanted him to be. He must know you love HIM unconditionally and that you will do everything in your power to help him be the best that he can be. Please don't let your attitudes make him feel worthless...because he is NOT. Your job is to help him find his worth which will lead to that passion you so very much desire...

Good luck and I pray for your peace and acceptance of your son for who he is. D.

4 moms found this helpful

I'm so disappointed in my mother. She doesn't love me because she thinks I'm not good enough. If I don't perform and live up to her and Dad's expectations, I'm nothing but a disappointment. My little brother is the genius in the family, and I'm the outcast. I wished I could be with normal parents, that just love me and want to do fun stuff with me. Every time I enjoy something, like cooking, my Mom tells me that successful people don't cook, they excel in school. Cooking is for losers. My mom doesn't care about me as a person, so why should I even bother? I'm too stupid, too lazy, and not good enough for her. I can't wait to get out of there. The way it is now, my life really sucks.
The 13 year old Son
PS: My little brother thinks it sucks too. He's getting really tired of always being in the spotlight and held up as the "wonder kid". He's told me he'd really love to play in the dirt sometimes like the other kids, but from watching what's happening to me, he knows that won't fly. He's just given up and is "playing the game" Mom wants him to play.

4 moms found this helpful

You never know what as an adult they will be like. I was an 'average' but needy child. I needed tutoring in math, my hand held while doing reports, speech therapy, I was fussy and didn't like coats or wearing underwear. From the time I was born, I was a full time job. A full time job that my mother, just like you, worked endlessly on and with. (I do think I had drive though because I still do). I am sure that at times she felt just like you. My sister on the other hand, read at 18 months and she was an easy baby. She qualified for GATE and did not need a lot of attention from my mother. I also had a brother. He too, was good at everything and did not have to put much effort into things. He not only walked at nine months, he climbed, so his gross and fine motor control was fantastic.

Jump forward thirty years. I am a graduate of a state college and I have my teaching credential. I successfully taught for eleven years. I am also a mother of three and have been married for 17 years. Life has worked out for me. I am confident that it would not have worked out so well if my mother did not put the time and effort into me that she did.
My sister too has found success. She graduated from Berkeley and has gone on to a very successful career too.
My brother on the other hand, has failed to launch. By all accounts, this should not be so. He still lives at home and is trying his hand at a second career. He did not finished college.

You don't know what your oldest will be. You may spend all this time and energy on him and nothing will come of it. Or, he may find his own success. I understand your education ideals are ivy league. Most of my extended family graduated from one of them. But success comes in different shapes and sizes. Your oldest can be successful, as long as the definition is appropriate. I personally, am glad that my mother placed so much of her energy into me. I know she looks back and knows it was worth it. Hopefully, you will look back too and find that it was worth it. Good luck!

3 moms found this helpful

Look at your son. What does he want in life?
If it's drawing, get him into the drafting classes at school. THose typically have no homework.
Cooking, let him make dinners for you. Let him make desserts. My cousin is a very successful chef in Durham. I have a good friend who was the pastry chef on Mackinac Island in the 80's, talk about successful.

Stop comparing the two of them. Stop placing unwanted goals on your son. Be his mother and love him for who he is. All he sees is your lofty goals. How does he know that you love him? You are causing his rebellion. Leave him alone.
He can join the military if he fails out of high school. Something tells me he would do very well on the ASVAB.

3 moms found this helpful

My first thought, is that your son wants your attention. He was an only child for 7 years. Maybe, he acts that way so you will spend time with him. Also, from what you said you seem to like your 4yr old better. Don't think for a minute that your 13yr old doesn't see that. All of that being said what does your 13 year old like? What are his passions? I know you want this to be about education but learning comes in different fashions. Does he really like anything? Art, music, math? I think you need to find what he is good at and focus on that. I realize grades are important and you say you have let him fail but it seems that if he is a B student then he is not failing. He may only do it b/c you force him to but maybe if he had to repeat a grade he might learn something. Especially, if all his friends moved forward and he didn't. Also, your husband should not be blaming you. Every mother does the best they can and every child is different. He may not be the overachiever you were hoping for but he is your son. Love him for who he is. He isn't a grade. He is person with thoughts and feelings and maybe he isn't feeling heard right now. Maybe he can't express himself the way he would like. Maybe he's being a teenager or suffering from some depression. Stop trying to make him what you want, and listen to who he thinks he is. I know a lot of this is easier said than done, he needs to feel apart of the family and not like the outcast.

As for the 4 year old, let him be 4. He doesn't need to learn it all now and experiencing life is learning.

Good luck to you and I am sure that your 13 year old will turn out great, have faith. He needs you to believe in him because if you don't then who will.

3 moms found this helpful

Have you considered the possiblity that your older son may have attention defecit disorder? I get the feeling (from your post alone) that this has not even entered your mind as a possiblity. You have listed EVERY SINGLE SYMPTOM here, from your perspective and the school's perspective. Give up the idea of hoping for "perfect" children and take him to the doctor and have him evaluated. As a woman who was diagnosed with ADD long into adulthood (age 27), I look back and wonder why my parents never figured it out when I was younger. I struggled in school and had no drive to succeed. I was pushed beyond belief into my honor student and honor society status. I graduated from high school 26th out of 327. I was made to bring home EVERY SINGLE text book every single day. If a teacher didn't give me homework any given day, I was given some by my dad. I spend hours on studying every night, and still I struggled to make it through a simple 40 question test.

My point is that as an adult now, knowing what I know about myself, I don't question why my parents didn't do more to make me succeed. I question why they didn't take a break from "brow-beating" me long enough to realize that I had an actual problem that could have been treated many many years ago. Stop brow-beating your son and open your eyes that he may actually need some real help, then get him the help he needs.

3 moms found this helpful

I'm sorry, but you are not coming off well at all in your post. I feel sorry for your children. Heaven forbid - you have a mediocre child? It just sounds so horrible to say. I hope he never learns how disappointed you are in his lack of super star potential.

3 moms found this helpful

Perhaps your son feels like he cannot live up to your expectations and really gives up before he starts. My oldest son is actually the most intelligent of all my kids, but he never had a lot of motivation in school or sports. He skated by, not turning in homework but taking making A's on his tests, so ended up with a low gpa, but he did make through. Fast forward to the age of 19- almost 20 - he has made his own choices and is now in Basic Military Training for the Air Force. He is doing great and will graduate in a couple weeks and will be moving on to Tech School soon. He has tested in to a great area with a lot of potential for his future.

My point is, not all of us are cut from the same cloth. So what if he ends up being average in school..it really isn't the end of the world. Many people go on to do great things but weren't good students. Even if you consider drawing or cooking hobbies - maybe he just needs to learn how to enjoy something and put the effort into things that give HIM a sense of satisfaction.

3 moms found this helpful

If you're already spending money on a nanny, why not switch and get a tutor instead. This way you can spend quality time with your 4 y/o and the tutor can do all the hard and stressful school work with your 13 y/o. This may also relieve some of the overall family tension and let you enjoy your older son when his work is done rather than always feeling like your time with him is a struggle.

3 moms found this helpful

I recommend reading The Myth of Laziness by Mel Levine. I have no idea how you have been parenting your son. but I've been reading a lot of research lately which would be great for you to read. to sum it up Do not praise a child for being Smart. kids who are always told their smart and intelligent etc get this fear that they wont live up to their label. They become afraid to try new and different things (this is why you often see very intelligent older kids who cant tie their shoes or something simple) Always praise effort if they got an A on a test say "did you learn a lot for that test or did you already know the math(spelling words)" if they act like it was easy say "I'm sorry you didnt learn much" If they get a B but studied a lot praise the studying. Don't over praise they think it is false praise. Teach kids to self evaluate instead of saying wow what a great picture or you've written a great story ask questions why did you ... tell me about ... what did you like about... Did you have a habit of telling older son how smart he was when he was younger? I hope the book helps!

2 moms found this helpful

I wanted to thank you with your insult to many chef's that cooking is at best a hobby. He has 2 loves drawing and cooking..I have seen many chef's who need to draw out the landscape of their ideas and then execute them. It sounds like to me that you need to find him a way to get to that educational ground instead of fighting the current that is him. Stop looking down your nose at him and start loving him for his strengths and weaknesses. Yes encourage your younger child, but don't take over his life to live your dream. You need to help your children live their dreams, not yours. Once parents stop fighting against the personality of a child and find the positives, desires within the child and help them realize their dreams, parenting becomes an amazing journey and you get to see what an amazing child came from the both of you, not a piece of clay that you made into exactly what you wanted and expected. The resentment needs to be let go of. Rejoin the workforce as it is obvious that is where you want to be, get back to yourself and be there for your kids on your terms. Your older son may appreciate it to when he is not feeling like he is to blame for all of your life disappointments...kids sense these things even if you haven't told them. But more than likely you have in one way or another. So no don't "give up" just change your focus of how you help.

2 moms found this helpful

I have a lot that I could say but I don't think it would be wise....So, in my opinion, ALL children are special, a gift from God! You should try to split your time between your two children and also spend some time together as a family. If your husband is physically abusive towards your older son and you have nothing nice to say to him like "I love you because you are you...not for anything you may or may not become" then I think maybe he could benefit from living elsewhere...maybe a grandparent, aunt or uncle. I will be praying that your oldest finds peace and acceptance in this life.

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I agree with a lot of the other moms. I feel for you sons. You are expecting way too much of them. Let them be kids. Encourage them to always try to do their best. Find what they are interested in (no matter what you think about it) and encourage them to pursue it. Right now due to their age a lot of what they express interest in could be just a phase but it's still a good idea to support them. They are not clay where you can mold them in the shape you want them to be, they are children. All you can do is direct them in the direction of a healthy path. And do not ever choose between your sons. Showing favortism will do major harm to the child left out. As it is, your sons probably feel that nothing they ever do is good enough. One day they are going to just stop trying and say what's the use. There will be so much resentment towards you and your husband. You need to really find out what success really is. The way I see it, success isn't about materialistic items, what job you have, what social standing you have but if you are a well rounded person who truly cares for others and is happy in everything they do. You can have all the money in the world and still be the most miserable person there is or you can be the poorest there is and be the happiest person there is. I think you need to reevaluate your expectations and if needed, like others say, get some counseling.

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Boarding school.

Specifically, a prep school (**not** a behavior mod school).

Because, actually, I have a sneaking suspicion that your older son is a LOT smarter than you're giving him credit for. He's got you two wrapped around his finger in a perpetual battle that keeps you right by his side (where he wants you/needs you if his early childhood is any indication... except for now he can't ask for mommy's hand to hold, so he keeps you there by baiting you because that's *socially acceptable*. Teens are "supposed" to do x, y, z... and so he's meeting those expectations JUST to the degree that keeps you close but not so close you suspect him), and in locking horns with you and your husband's expectations ... he ALSO never has to stretch beyond his comfort level and fail.

The thing is, coming from an exceptional family, kids tend to split one of 3 ways :
- golden children (fighting to live up to expectations OR doing it as easily as breathing)
- the mediocrity wars (never try, never fail)
- screw it (drugs, sex, adrenaline junkies, failed half baked venture after half baked venture... anything that disconnects them from what they see/feel is unattainable)

Your eldest sounds like he's "fighting the mediocrity wars".

With MANY very smart/perfectionistic people who come from successful families... they *do not* care if they fail when they don't TRY... but failing when they DO try, putting in the effort, and risking not being a success is devastating. No matter how disappointed you SEEM, if they didn't actually try, your disappointment doesn't break their heart. It's one of the most common themes I know of in why families in the EU send their kids to boarding schools... getting the kids in their own schools they're not only "making connections, filling out their CV, etc." they're getting the kids OUT from under the shadow of mum & dad, so that they can stretch their own wings, find their own interests, and not get locked into power struggles with parents. Same token, when the kids are home on break there isn't the "fighting about school" thing that happens with dayschools. Instead that time is pure FAMILY time. Time to bond, play, bask in love.

If you choose to go the route of boarding school (prep, I really can't emphasize that enough)... I *highly* recommend treating the whole thing as an adventure instead of punishment OR a "chance to prove himself" (aka not a "clean slate", not in any way intimate that it's succeed or lose our love... very smart kids tend to be pretty keen on testing just that. Instead something more along the lines of: "You're growing up, you deserve the chance to explore your own interests, to come back and share them with us, to not have us standing over you like you're a small child." LAVISH affection of him during breaks. Weekends away, special "adult" dinners, anything and everything that is fun/loving/togetherness.

Anyhow, it just seems like the perfect compromise. You get the day to day time with your little one, and you get breaks and holidays with your eldest without having to constantly be hovering over him. You may also find yourself quite surprised in finding out, with a little distance between the two of you, that your son IS more than "just" average... that he has exceptional qualities... and could be a "real" winner. Perhaps not in the way that you were expecting but in a completely surprising way/ direction/ manner.

<grinning> per your update, just as an example:

- My artist aunt became an engineer for NASA
- My best mate in highschool (also an artist) used to work for Dreamworks (animation design, pulling in decent money .25 - .5 per year... and now has his own firm
- Gourmet Chefs, foodies, Vinyard owners, surgeons, and chemists often come out of those kids who have a deft hand in the kitchen. Those without the advantages of a good education tend to have to work their way up... those with good educations/connection often get to "skip the line"

I could think of several dozen more options... but you get the drift. If a kid likes videogames they could waste their lives, make minimum wage... or they could become videogame designers/engineers & world reknown. It's all about directionality & imagination.

ADDED:

As per admission... how would your family feel about a semi gapyear? College classes (look up dual enrollment for your state) to keep his hand in academically / pad his GPA - or an internship - or travel - or combo therein? (Like taking the summer to work at an archeological dig as a student volunteer... or volunteering his language skills to the UN student internships office, etc. You know what I mean, things that are typically offered to highschool students more for their college aps, but that would weight his prepschool ap?) Same token, if he's a good tester / unit type of person... CTY has some "shiny" classes... all one has to do is to pass the entrance tests and sign up. A lot of them are more artsy, but they're STILL a CTY course to put on the CV.

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Sounds like your son needs to be evaluated for a learning disability. My son was a lot like that and excelled at math but struggled w/ reading (effects every subject). He did well enough that he didn't qualify for the extra help. I asked for an evaluation because the school didn't see what I saw, they couldn't do anything. Finally when a teacher HEARD him struggle, we were able to get that evaluation done and an IEP in place. Didn't make him excel, but it did help him get extra help so he didn't struggle so much. In my son's case, he was so bored early on that he zoned out and missed some key things (he was so bright and the teacher bored him to tears). The gap between ability and performance and in math vs reading was discrepancy that showed he needed help.

Forget about what you want (a child that excels) and help each reach their potential. I guess what will make anyone successful depends on yoru definition of successful....I consider it to be doing something you love as much as it is about making a living.

Set aside time for each. Be their advocate at school to get your older son the help he needs and your younger son the challenge he needs. Keep in mind, you older son will NEVER learn to step up if you are always carrying him. Sounds like he depends on you (which isn't a bad thing altogether) but he is 13 and approaching high school...are you planning to go away to college with him too? If not, let him sink or swim a few times...he will learn to at least tread water.

1 mom found this helpful

I think if your 13 year old loves drawing and cooking you should 100% encourage these activities! Art school or cooking school could be in his future. He could have a creative career that he loves and is absolutely good at! Don't think of those things as hobbies but as his passion perhaps! I cannot comment on the rest of your post bc I don't have time right now, but you sound like a great mom and you got a lot of good comments from others.

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First off, make sure you're giving enough praise and attention to the younger one so that he keeps up being his wonderful self. You don't want him to think that bad behavior gets the attention. Also, remember that every kid is different in how much attention they think is acceptable!

As far as your older son goes, sorry...but it sounds like you've taught him that he doesn't need to be responsible. You'll take care of everything for him. Not to mention from what you said it sounds like what he accompishes is more important to you than he is. Have you asked him what he thinks being a success is? My son is 10 and I'm tired of him not taking responsibility. If I tell him once to put his coat on and he doesn't do it, he goes without his coat - and I'll tell you it's only happened once. You need him to see consequences of his actions.
I would take all video games, Ipods, phones, tv, etc. away. Have a good chat that this is to teach him responsibility. Give him his homework and a reasonable amount of time to do it. When it's done correctly he can have a reasonable amount of free time with the things you took away. If he doesn't do his homework, he doesn't get his electronics plus he'll get detention in school. You need to teach him he's accountable. As parent's we can't sugar coat the world for our kids. We need to support them even when they fall, but sometimes they have to fall.
Good luck!

1 mom found this helpful

I think the other ladies have done an excellent job of pointing out some of the glaring issues in your life, so I just wanted to mention something about high schools in Chicago. Not all high performing high schools have selective enrollment. Check out noble and some other very successful charter high schools in the city. Your older son needs an environment where he is allowed to blossom while still being challenged academically. I can personally vouch for Noble, but there are many more that are excellent AND open enrollment.

Best of luck to your sons,
J.

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Poor thing - you I mean, boys are very hard things aren't they? I have an 8 year old, who comes from a family a late bloomers. He is still, I would say 4 in personality. My husband when I married him at 30, was more like a 21 year old. It could be that your son is the same. He will need more guidance than you would expect, for a longer time. It is exhausting to keep having to supervise so much, when you think he is not listening to you, but I will bet that he is listening, and what work you have put in with him will pay off massively in about 10 years. So don't give up okay!

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Have you been to a dr. to see if the 13 year old is ADD, or does he have a learning disability. You need to find that out. Why can't you and the nanny switch children from time to time. She can sit with the 13 yr old while he does his HW while you spend time with the 4 yr old.
It sounds to me like you need to have the 13 yr old tested to find out what the problem is since this has been going on since day 1.
I see that you wrote that he like drawing and cooking. You need to take advantage of the things he likes. My aunt is and artist and her painting have sold for $500.00 and up, and have you seen what some of the cook's (chef's) make. If he is good at this he could be the next Woldgang Puck. Don't discredit what he likes because you see no value in it. This is his life not the life you invision for him to have. Step back and look at things from his point of view. You tell him that the things he loves are a waste of time, and he needs to do the things he is not really interested in.

As I took the time to read your whole letter I agree with the Mom that said your son may benefit from living with someone else. You and your husband want puppets not children.

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I have not read all the responses here and this book does not pertain directly to your question, but I think it may be one you might want to at least check out from the library. It is called Siblings Without Rivalry by Faber and Mazlish. It speaks to the issue of children and how they view themselves within the family dynamic and how that perception shapes their behavior. I found it very interesting in understanding my own kids and it even helped me understand how who I have become as an adult was affected by the relationships between my siblings and parents when I was growing up. They also have another book call How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk. It's another good read.