Help with 6 Y/o Who Is Lying & Not Applying Herself in School

There are so many issues crammed together here that it is hard to unpick them.

First. Just quit playing gotcha with your kid.
Stop setting up non-critical situations where lying is even possible.
Take the dog-sighting thing.
It Didn't Matter.
Seriously.
Six year-olds are very serious - she wants to do well, succeed, do everything right, and school just exacerbates the situation.
She's feeling as if there is a "right" answer you want, and she's trying to guess it.
So quit putting her on the spot.
Don't *ask* her about the toothbrushing, *tell* her to go back and don't get into an argument about it.
She has to go brush them again, because she's not minty enough.

It isn't that it is okay to lie.
But right now she is so wound up that finding the "right" answer is all that matters, and the punishments are just sending her into a downward spiral.
She knows she's lying, she doesn't feel good about it, and you are only convincing her that she is a bad kid.
Time to hit reset.

Stop asking her any questions.
Find out facts for yourself, and tell her, don't ask her, things.

That is a first step.
Let the entire situation die down.
Imagine the lying as an infection, an inflamation.
Let it get quiet and unhurtful for you both for a while.
No discussions, no questions, no punishments.
Give her a lot of affection - this is your kid, and you love her.
Let her feel that.

The second step, in a couple of weeks, is a calm discussion of truth and lying.
Why truth matters.
First it is just wrong.
Second, if she lies all the time, people will not like her for it.
And third, lying won't even work - math tests, the school will always tell you.
The teeth, you can tell they weren't brushed.
And, finally, the truth is needed - cavities really hurt; math tests effect how her teachers think of her.

I know she's only six, but try to talk to her as if she were another adult, giving information in an unemotional context.
Don't let it turn into a power struggle, since this one is like the fighting over food stuff - even if you win, you lose.

5 moms found this helpful

Hi L.,

I always try to think of a "gentle way" to want to express my opinion during a response to someone's posting. Please know that I am trying my best to use a gentle language to you this morning. With that said......

I think the problem is coming from your end. Your daughter is simply trying to "do things right" in order to feel proud and to make you proud. You are making things too difficult and in "contest form" for her to feel good enough in her own skin. This is not a good beginning for her in school.

About the dogs.....why say ANYTHING? It seems like you brought it up just to see if you could "catch her" in a lie. That is a game, that is simply setting her up to fail. She's going to feed you plenty of lies when she's older, don't put her in a position to feel as though she needs to begin lying now.

The Math is normal. Kids go through knowing it, and needing you to help them know it. You cannot expect a 6 yr old to be completely consistent yet. Again, you are making a game out of it, and setting her up for failure. Why didn't you just help her and satisfy the need she has to need you?

Brushing her teeth last night seems like the "topper" to you, but after reading your posting, I understand why she was lying! She had been in trouble so many times during the day (for silly things) that she didn't want to make you mad at her anymore and lied about brushing her teeth, which she probably would've done anyway after she got through the lie :O)

L., you need to change the expectations of your daughter. Sure, you expect her to be honest, yet you are also expecting her to be perfect. There has to be a "gray area" allowed for her to reach being "perfect in your mind" without doing everything absolutely perfect.

Please, look at yourself first..........kids are what we make of them. Your daughter's responses are a direct reaction to you and your questions, your actions, your expectations, etc.... It's time to look at what YOU are doing to create this situation instead of blaming it on your daughter.

L., a loving good mother has to do this on occassion. To accept blame inside themselves in order to make a more peaceful environment for our children. I've done it when I realized I was expecting too much and my kids began lying over silly things. I simply changed my expectations, NEVER told them, and we just continued to live as a family and it worked itself out. It can be done :O)

Good luck!

~N. :O)

3 moms found this helpful

wow...I am usually long winded :)but all I could say at first is, she is 6!
What an amazingly imaginative time for her to be..and the possibilities..a storyteller. a playwright, a poet, an artist...a doctor, scientist..some thing is framing her world that tells her that it easier to use those smarts to avoid than it is to talk things out. I know you are trying with all your heart to raise up with integrity and character..which is to be commended but it is not a one brush stroke, this parenting stuff..it is about figuring out her language..how she finds truth..threatening, taking..all tempting..just push you apart.
Giving her life experience about truth, teaching compassion and empathy can bridge her..
it is a stage but there are many stages ahead how can you stay close..if you like, Bernstein bears has a book on the truth ...there are others..I have one last IDEA about her big tales..have her write down her stories and then ask her to explain...act them out..see if she can EDIT..them
When our neighbor comes for carpool, we do not drive to school..no we go on adventures...helped break the ice the first day of kindergarten carpool...and it is a tradition...we "see wild turkies turn into reindeers...garbage cans as sleighs..monkies in the trees when we are in the jungle. pumpkins and ghosts and easter bunnies hopping away...and we have never had anything but joy on the way...I would never trade that..
As for school, ask for work to prep her with..assessments. learn her learning style..help her find her passion..even at 6..if she is old enough for tests...egad, I am a big developmental person and still in shock over the testing and my kid gets assessed all the time..then she is old enough for a passion..Read anything by Jerome Bruner!

Lastly, and this is my therapy question...find out what lying means to you, how it impacted you and why it is such a fear..we all have our triggers. read the book if you have not and want to called ...Parenting from the inside out

I TOO HAVE TO EDIT MY REPLY AFTER READING THE SENTENCE punishment whci is like a SENTENCE..As a writer, I am emphatic about writing and instilling the love of writing..which is meant to be a form of self expression, opinions, ideas and Iam an advocate..of learning, life long learning, writing to express..the quickest way to abolish a love of writing,,of using the body to to sit, focus and express..to think, to have an opinion..is to go back to sentence writing...especially far above age level..I encourage you to find another way of helping her understand about integrity which I also understand and can hear is worrying you. I also love the book, Parenting with Grace.

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Aww. I think what happened with the dog-sighting was bound to happen, if your recounting is exact. If we tell a child we just saw something neat, and they missed it, they are doubly disappointed: they missed seeing something neat, AND they missed the invaluable opportunity to share seeing it WITH YOU.

I sometimes see neat things while we are driving. If she didn't see it too, I will either say "Maybe we'll see another; if we do, I'll slow down" OR I will drive around the block and come back so that we can see it again, together.

She wants your approval. I think most kids will lie, to get that.

And the dog-sighting lie is very, very small in the grand scheme of things. She's only six. Slow down a little, mama, and let her thrive in her own way. I feel sad that she is so attuned to whether you will look at her funny. Make sure she knows beyond any doubt, that you love her so much, for exactly who she is.

Six is tough. Love that girl and take the time to see the details *together*. Otherwise ;) and I say this from experience: if the sighting was too quick for her to catch, keep your mouth shut! Whenever possible, take the time to slow down the car so she can see it too, because at this age I'm sure she only wants to share in your experience and love.

I think the main thing here is approval and connection. Best of luck to your family, and prayers for all of that!

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I’ve realized with kids, you’ll be yelling and punishing all the time if you don’t pick your battles. I can see you’re under stress and I know first hand how easy it is to get ticked off and blow up at innocuous things when under pressure.

As for the dog thing, maybe she wasn’t lying. Maybe she didn’t think the dogs were all that cute so she didn’t want to say “Aww”. If you know for a fact she didn’t see them, and she said she did, instead of arguing over something as non critical to life as to whether or not she saw the dogs on the side of the road, you could have turned it into something fun, an exercise in imagination or something, by saying, “I think I may have seen a pink one! Did you see the pink one with the Mohawk?” And taken it from there…

Though I know how hard it is to be light-hearted and have fun when they push your buttons.

As for the math thing, mine isn’t old enough to have those problems yet but I remember that I wasn’t that great at math and was terribly embarrassed to count on my fingers because I was afraid of looking stupid. One of my friends in school told me that only stupid kids count on their fingers and the really smart ones can do it in their head so I beat myself up trying to do it in my head but always lost count and ended up in tears more often than not. When my parents would try and help, I’d get frustrated and mad and blow up and they didn’t understand because I was too embarrassed to explain that I didn’t want to be one of the “dumb” ones.

I still have to count on my fingers to this day but I try to hide it by tapping numbers out on my lap or under the table without making it obvious. Sometimes I’ll put my chin in my hand and tap with my pinky so it just looks like I’m concentrating when I’m really adding or subtracting.

She’s only six. Maybe she’s still trying to find her technique.

About the teeth brushing thing, make sure to ask her, “Have you brushed your teeth tonight?” Adding the specific of “tonight” may get the response you’re looking for. If you asked her “Have you brushed your teeth?” She might be thinking, “Of course I brushed my teeth. I brushed them yesterday and the day before that and so many other times I can’t remember them all. So, yes, I’ve brushed my teeth.” To her she’s telling the truth but to you she’s fibbing.

Kids don’t think the same way adults do. If they did we’d be giving them drivers licenses and kicking them out to fend for themselves at six instead of eighteen.

If you ask her if she’s brushed her teeth tonight, and she says no, you can ask her to submit to a “breath test” so you can see if her mouth is fresh enough for the sandman. If you determine that her breath could knock out not only the sandman but the horse he rode in on, feel free to tell her that she needs to brush again to make sure she gets the best dreams in the sandman’s bag and not whatever random dream he can grab off the top and toss her way before his shoes melt off.

If you make her really want to brush her teeth then she’d be less inclined to lie about whether she’s done it or not. This can be applied to every other thing she’s been lying about. You may not think there’s a reason that she’s lying but there usually is. At age six it’s possible she doesn’t have the ability to articulate why she’s not being truthful and that will only come with age.

Make sure to let her know why lying is bad so she can make the connection. Tell her that if she lies, people will stop trusting her and someday when she really needs to tell them something, they won’t believe her because they’ll think she’s lying. Even people who love her very very much.

You can read her the story of the boy who cried wolf to send the point home. That kid got eaten by wolves because he was bored and wanted attention. Lying is not a good way to entertain yourself.

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Hi L.!

I hear your fustration girl! I just want to add a few things.

I used a book called "Shepherding a Child's Heart" be Ted Tripp. Every single mom on this planet will run into a child telling a lie. It's just part of our fallen nature. This book helped me alot and my kids are on track. My oldest daughter went thru a short period of lying at about 8, but has overcome it. I used the concepts of the book. It's foundations are Biblical. It works.

This same daughter, also had issues with math in school. And we HOMESCHOOL! She is also good in grammar but not so good in math. She finally, has come to a better point with math and I think it was because of a few things: I repeated her entire 5th grade math this year, We spent more time with math facts drills, and we went at a slower pace.
With my daughter, she was having difficulty fully grasping math concepts, but once i thought she did, we'd move to the next concept. A week later she couldn't do the math problems from the earlier week because she forgot it! She clearly had difficulty with retention. (and math builds on itself.) Another thing is that she would make sloppy mistakes, because she didn't have a clear understanding of the math, and she was painfully struggling SO MUCH that she would try to get through it as quickly as possible just get it over with. Also, she is not math brained so she needed visuals to help her fully grasp it. So basically what was happening is that I was thinking she had the concept because she did a few pages of problems, but she clearly DID NOT fully have the concept. Math is one of those things you have to know it upside down and inside out, and really KNOW it - to know it. It is said that you will know you really understand a concept when you can teach it to someone else.

Right now Your daughter will be able to do the math with your coaching because you are telling her the keys to find the answer. When a math test is performed there is no help, and failure means she hasn't grasped the concepts or she doesn't know what the keys are to find the answer. Possibly her math class is going too fast for her and she is falling behind. Or possibly they are using a garbage curriculum. Possibly it is poor teaching methods.Or possibly the school is just pushing for math that is at a higher level than really should be. I've heard that some schools are starting 2nd graders on muliplication! Seems kinda early to me. Ask her teacher if your daughter raises her hand for math help on a higher percentage than some of the other kids. If she is, then that could be a red flag that she is having trouble following at the pace of the class, and needs more time and help to absorb.
Once a misunderstood math concept is passed and the lesson moves on to the next concept, the block in the wall is missing. Missing blocks can bring the whole wall down eventually. This teacher should have suggested private tutoring or SOMETHING to help a child who is failing test after test.

Missing blocks could be failure to memorize addition and subtraction math facts, not truly understaning place value concepts, or not being able to visualize numbers and their size, and relation to eachother. Also, if the teacher herself doesnt have a good grasp of math she might not be able to teach the concept from different viewpoints- which is a must.

For children that are not math-brained or have poor retention, REPETITION is key. They will need two to three times as much repetition as other children who are "math brained". They will also need more visuals than other kids.

With my 6 yr old, I use both math blocks and a number line. My daughter writes her number line at the top of her paper when doing her math.(It especially comes in handy for algebra concepts, 10+y=16).These are basic tools the school should have taught your daughter to use when doing addition and subtraction. If they don't use them, they are failing your daughter. Children her age can't think abstractly, they think concretely. They need to see and touch what they are working on. Abstract thinking doesn't come until later.

One idea is to replace your daughter's punishment of restriction or having items taken away by having her do math at home on the weekends (with you helping.) I would encourage you to replace the word or feeling of punishment with a feeling of hope, that you are on her team and will be there to help her succeed. (And if her failure truly is because of lack-a-dazyness, this will get her back on track real fast, because no one likes to do math on weekends!)

Math-u-see is a good math program for visual learners. It comes with a DVD tutorial that you can watch together. Each lesson should only run about 15 minutes. Maybe you can buy a book at her grade level- START AT THE BEGINNING OF THE BOOK, even if you are 2/3 of the way through that grade. Go over the concepts and see where she is stuck at. I would do at least 2 pages of each of the 30 lessons. If you find one area where she clearly needs more review, do all 5 pages of that lesson and put your focus there. Work through the summer if need be. Remember, you will know if she has mastered it, if she can explain it back to you.
ps..Math U See has placement tests online.

God bless you and hang in there!

1 mom found this helpful

Hi L.- I didn't read all the responses but it sounds like there's a bit of pressure on your little girl. My six year old will insist she sees dolphins in the bay and squirrels in the trees when we suspect it can't be true. Not wanting to be left out of seeing something interesting she will say she sees things the rest of the family saw while driving and I'll know she couldn't have seen it from her seat. What's the big deal? I would concentrate on the untruths that matter most safety, school etc. Kids have great imaginations and we should value that even if what they are saying may not be "real" to us. To reassure you, my oldest did this too and is now 10 and is responsible and honest. Finally, watch out making school a big deal at this point. I mean math tests for a six year old should be rare and not hold much weight, even using the term "fail" seems way over the top for such a little girl. Talk more about trying your best rather than getting a grade and try making it fun. If you put too much pressure on her now and she will become burnt out in the higher grades when it really matters. Teachers and schools have to push kids to perform at such a young age and often kids just aren't ready for the skills that are expected by state standards. They are not necessarily what's good for all kids. Try looking at the big picture, will the math tests really matter in a few years? Your daughters attitude towards school, self esteem and happiness are far more important than any first grade math test. Encourage her in a positive way and you'll contribute more to her potential as a student and person down the line. Good Luck!

WOW.. just read the other responses and I can't help but add to my comment! My kids are very well behaved, get good grades and contribute to the work in our family but they are also allowed to be kids. Spanking for telling a white lie? Follow that one down the path of growing up and see where it may lead? A really, really GOOD LIAR! Now that is scary to think about at 13 years old. Again, I just think don't take it so seriously and be consistent and firm only when it really matters, otherwise let her be a kid. As for the trivial lying should we all consider a few things... Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny, The Tooth Fairy and of course those little white lies we all tell on occasion to save someone's feelings or our own rear!

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L., remember she is still really young.

I think you should lighten up on your reaction to her lying. It sounds like she is sticking to the lie because she is afraid of your response when you find out she is lying. You are a little too strict about her efforts in school. Please take this advice from someone who in hindsight knows she was too strict on her son about his efforts in school. It had a lasting negative effect on his schoolwork. You are taking the joy out of learning. Let me quote you: "she gets in trouble for not applying herself." Your daughter is only in first grade!! Why are you quizzing her about her math? Let her teacher teach her!! You just love and have fun with her at home.

When she lies, I think you should just casually mention that you know that isn't the truth, so she realizes lies don't work, and then drop it. Don't make her afraid of telling you the truth.

L. - I just read the other responses, and I see that most of the moms, correctly, are telling you to ease up on your little girl. The image of her squirming as you interrogate her is a pretty strong one. If you keep being so hard on her you will have real problems with her when she becomes a teenager. Understand that I am saying this as one who had made PLENTY of mistakes with my kids, and still do, and I acknowledge them. So we all do it, but please stop now.

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At 6, a child really isn't able to distinguish clearly between lies, fibs, "stories," "make-believe," and imagination. Don't set her up to fail by asking a question (i.e., did you brush your teeth?) If you know she hasn't brushed her teeth, just tell her to go brush her teeth. If she says, "I did," just tell her you don't think she did, but either way, she is to brush them again. Don't lecture her about the evils of lying--- she won't understand yet. Maybe in a year or two you can tell her the story of the boy who cried wolf, and discuss the meaning with her, and discuss why the story is telling us that it's not a good thing to lie.

As far as school goes, I find it rather disturbing that a six year old is being expected to take math tests, and learn grammar. At six years old, she should be doing art projects, learning about calendars and how to tell time, learning how to play with other kids, and learning to share, and treat others as she would like to be treated, and other, similar things.

I would like to recommend a couple of books to you, as you are a person who is clearly concerned with and involved in her child's education. Both books are rather old, and somewhat oldfashioned, but they contain some of the best discussions of young children's development that I've ever read: the first is "The Magic Years," by Selma Fraiberg, and the other is "The Hurried Child," by David Elkind.

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AFTER READING YOUR "SO WHAT HAPPENED"....

If you are asking a six year old to write 25 - 100 sentences as a punishment, you are asking something of a child in the age range of 10 - 12 years of age.

If you could only absorb the advice of 2 -3 mothers out of all the responses received, I suspect you only want to hear what you want to hear.

You have an ONLY child of whom you are expecting too much for her age. Better sit down with your "soulmate"/dad and consider some family counselling.

Blessings.....

L.,

It is clear you have ALREADY lost your patience with your six year old. The argument over seeing or NOT seeing the dogs is ridiculous. It sounds more like a sibling-to-sibling relationship then parent to child. As in any relationship, if you want respect and results, learn to pick your battles.

When its time to brush teeth and she’s not doing it, then start going to the bathroom with her, stand there while she does it and tell her you will do so until she obeys the first time and can show you her clean teeth—the FIRST time she is asked.

As far as the schoolwork, you should have known when she failed the FIRST math test. You say she does well in other subjects, so she needs help with math. As parents, if her teacher doesn’t let you know when she’s doing poor work, you need to keep in touch with the teacher on a regular basis. If you don’t have the patience to work with her, maybe her teacher or a tutor could spend a little extra time to help her get back on track.

I’m also wondering if you call your child a liar and sincerely hope you aren’t. If your daughter feels your perception of her is just a little liar, she may be losing her will to excel. A six year old is too young to have a lot of “old habits” to slip back into..

Lastly, your husband needs to take part in the discipline of your children. Parents should stand united and children need to know they are loved and will be disciplined when they do something wrong and praised when they do something right. Having said this, it’s also important to make the “punishment fit the crime”.

Blessings…..

1 mom found this helpful

Dear L.,
Dang! You've received some pretty harsh responses.
I think you are right to be concerned about your daughter lying and teaching her the importance of truth and honesty.
Doing too little too late is certainly one extreme.
Doing too much about it is another.
There IS a happy medium.
It's all in the approach.
Both of my children have been in counselling at one point or another to help them through divorce issues, etc. The therapists were awesome and gave me so much good advice.
1.~ Never to ask a young child a "Why?" question because often they don't know why they said or did something. And even if they do, most likely, they don't know how to verbalize it.
2.~ Very young children often don't realize they are deliberately lying, according to the adult definition. They may just be saying something they wish was true.
3.~ Let your children be creative and make up silly stories, draw, pretend...use it as a way to teach them the difference between using their imagination and what is real. (What is true and what is made up). The difference between truth and dishonesty is easier for them to really get the hang of and then the trust issue can evolve while you're at it.
4.~ One counsellor told me, in her exact words, "Any kid worth their salt will try to test getting away with some things."
Which brings me to the toothbrushing thing.
And the actually using soap and shampoo while in the shower thing.
And the really putting the crayons away thing.
....THAT list could go on!
I got to where I didn't even ask my kids if they brushed their teeth. I told them to go do it and when they came out of the bathroom, I said, "Come here...let me see your teeth and smell your breath."
If they knew they hadn't done it, they just went back in and did it, because they knew I would check.
My son thought he was crafty.....One day he just put some toothpaste in his mouth and came and breathed on me thinking I wouldn't know the difference.
I just said, "Nice try, son....that's the oldest trick in the book. Now, go back in and actually brush."
It was the same thing for a while with him using soap when he took a shower. He figured out I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and being wet was not the same as washing.
He's 14 and gets a huge kick out of still having me smell his head and his pits when he gets out of the shower. And we laugh about it.
Where the issues with school are concerned, schedule a conference with the teacher. Don't be upset with your daughter and punish her until you've done so. One of my best friends is a teacher and at 6 years old, they really don't pass or fail tests. It's more of a way to assess strengths and weaknesses and how each different child absorbs information. Your daughter does so well on everything else, maybe math just isn't her thing. And let me tell you, my son was terrified of math. He didn't even want to try. He would rather take an F than even make his brain deal with it. I bought him Schoolhouse Rock, made up songs and games to make math fun, and he still says he hates it, but math is one of his stronger subjects and he's no longer afraid of it.
Tread lightly with the math thing because you don't want her to be even more adverse to it than she is.
I sense your frustration and I truly think it stems from how very much you love your daughter.
I'm sorry you got so many tough responses, because you would get judged by someone, somewhere, if you didn't give a crud in the other direction.
My advice is to wipe the slate clean with your daughter.
Bake some cookies, have a tea party, tell her how much you love her and how you know that surely she can tell you've been upset with her. Ask her how she feels about it and really listen.
It doesn't have to be anything heavy or accusatory...just talking about feelings and working together on something like baking or decorating cupcakes. And having F-U-N!
Then pinky swear you love each other and no matter what, being upset doesn't mean the same thing as not loving anymore.
Promise to start over.

I really think you'll be just fine.

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It sounds like she is getting attention with this behavior. While you do need to be concerned about lying, you also need to try to ease up on how you are approaching the problem. Just reading your post made me feel stressful, so I can imagine that living with your responses to her actions is stressing your daughter and making the problem worse instead of better. Try to detect when she is truly lying and when she may be teasing you too. She is at an age where teasing is a big part of her growing up experience. We are reading fairy tales and other 'make believe' stories to our children, and then we have a problem when they make up stories sometimes, but it is a part of the process of learning. The examples you give don't sound like really big lying issues to me. I'm not sure why the dog incident was so important to you, but it seems like you made much too big an issue out of that. As far as the tooth brushing... well all kids will try to get out of that from time to time. Rather than make it a lying issue, why not just say something like "We both know you didn't, so go on back in there and do it"? Then go to the bathroom after a minute to see that she is following through. When you get into the argumentive position that it sounds like you are doing, she wins the battle.... not you.
As for the math situation... I can't imagine how difficult this math must be at age six, but to get into such struggles at this age seems to me like she's being set up to have huge problems with math throughout her life. Try to make it a fun learning process, and give her some concrete examples to help her. Math is presented in such an abstract way at school that it is difficult for a young person (who thinks concretely) to grasp. If you aren't able to help her make sense of the math, perhaps it's time to enlist the help of someone who can to give her a little tutoring. As I see it, you simply must get off of this not-so merry-go-round and get back to being able to enjoy your daughter and her enjoy being your daughter again.
Edit note: I just re-read your post and want to point out your very first sentence. Please keep reading that yourself and try to think of your daughter that way instead of the very negative picture you give throughout the rest of your post. Your biggest job as a mom is to keep encouraging those great aspects in your daughter. If you do that, the negative aspect (lying) will not have room to grow.

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Hi L.,
I am just catching up on my e-mails. Based on what you have said and what I have gathered from positive discipline books, it seems that your daughter wants to please you but is afraid to tell the truth for some fear (punishment or something else may be). I can understand your situation but rest assured that kids do not do things to annoy us but to get our reasonable attention. They do what they feel best and we do what we know best. How about instead of telling your daughter that she is lying, you respond (calmly in normal tone) by oh that is interesting,or simply with yeah, okay. Your daughter needs to be able to feel comfortable to tell you the truth but somehow she is not at that ground. You can help her get there by supporting her and praising her a lot for other good things she does. If she does not want to share her true feelings, may be you can say, I am always here for you no matter what. I want you to feel comfortable with yourself and what you say. You can tell me whenever you feel comfortable and want to talk. Even if you know that she is lying, just listen to her and may be try not threaten with any punishment. With punishment, we can gain immediate or temporary compliance but can not bring permanent behavior changes. When we behave in a certain way, we actually react to our unment needs that we sometimes are not even aware of. The true change requires lots of support, acknowledgement, acceptence, and validation of feelings as they are presented to us. Hope, I am making some sense. There are many positive discipline books on such issues.
-R.

So what if she did or did not see the dog. It doesn't really matter. From above, you pushed her to lie.

Don't set her up to lie. You are doing that.

When you know she did or didn't do something, don't ask her if she lied.

When I have asked my daughter to brush her teeth and I know she didn't get it done, I say, "I asked you to get your teeth brush because we need to leave in 5 minutes. Please get your teeth brush, so that you can be on time."

School is a different issue. Maybe she's not confident and can do it at home, but not at school. Maybe she really doesn't know it. Maybe she needs more practice before she is confident in that area. Please don't assume she is applying herself. Ask the school to assess her to help you and the school to understand her as a learning.

If she goes to public school, put in an official written request to have your child assessed. State that she is not achieving to her potential and has failed several test, etc (list all reasons ...talk to teacher). They MUST assess her with in 50 school days (next fall maybe).

Private school is different. Many will assess her as well. ASK! Don't assume. Find out.

Stephanie

I read the responses to your post in anticipation of having the same issue with my daughters someday. Given they're younger, I can't offer advise yet but I did want to offer support as I think some mothers were rather harsh. I agree with one post that lying is unacceptable. Perhaps people have a point in terms of how to deal with it but don't now berate yourself that you're setting up such a stressful environment etc. Why is lying to you about brushing her teeth insignificant? It's a lie and on the flip side, why should she bother lying about it versus just doing it if it's so insignificant? Anyway, don't feel bad about being stressed about this situation. Take people's advice perhaps to learn how to deal with this stage but ignore their criticisms. Some people unbelievably self-righteous. Good luck!

Having a 5 year old who does pretty much the same thing, I've learned myself that Laura's advice is spot-on. I don't ask her if she washed her hands. I say, I know you didn't wash your hands, please go make them smell happy or something like that. Get out of the habit of asking and giving her an option to lie. She will grow out of the stage, rest assured! But don't argue about nonsense things (like the dogs). She wants to be right and --I'm trying to be sensitive here-- but it sounds like you want to be right too. Having the last and right word in an argument is not important. Even when you are. I have 5 kids. I pick the important battles and recognize there are phases, some more annoying than others. Just don't give her the option.

As for the math, work with her daily, get counting M&M's or bears, make it fun. She may need extra attention from you & why did the teacher not tell you she was having trouble when she failed the first test? Help her understand math through everyday life (count the red cars while riding in the car, count how many bananas we got at the store).

You are doing fine mom! Congrats for asking for help! I love this site and find many answers to even odd questions. Chances are, there is another mother going through your troubles too!! Take what advice works for you & toss the rest.

My son was just going through this. I know how you feel. I told him that if he kept lying to me that I will have a hard time believing him and that he would break that trust we had. I told him what trust was. He doesn't like that often anymore.

Okay. I was taught at parenting classes that I need to pick my battles. Some can be easily side-stepped. You already know your child has not brushed her teeth, so why confront her? Just say, "Time to brush teeth, 'come on, me too." So you both create this ritual of brushing your teeth together.
Praise her when she sees something, not put her down when she does not. And about lying, well, apparently you pay a lot of attention to her when you think she is lying. So you are perpetuating the action as your child just wants your attention.
Sit and do math games with her that are fun. Put the fun in math, don't start filling out her College Application now! She is only 6. Take a deep breath and know you are fine and your child is fine. You just need to relax a little and have some fun with your amazing creative daughter.
GOOD LUCK.

Sounds like you are pretty focused on this "label" of "lying." At this age, children will often tell the parent what they think the parent wants to hear. It is more wishful thinking. Sometimes the child can feel like she will get in trouble either way, by telling the truth she knows you won't like the answer, so she tells a mistruth hoping you'll believe it this time. Also, she might just know this "gets your goat" & is feeding on the negative attention. What works better is just to acknowledge that "I know your teeth do need to get brushed" and walk with her to the bathroom and stay with her while she brushes. This way there is no disapproval involved & just a matter of fact response. Try not to get so emotionally invested in this. It does not mean she will grow up to lie. It just means she is could be afraid of the response, testing adults to see how they might respond and/or trying to get some attention. When she says she saw something & you think she didn't: 1. maybe she really did 2. just ignore it, it is not really that big of a deal in the scheme of things. Good luck. It sounds like you want to be close to her, and you have reached out for feedback. I'm glad you did. R., MSW & mom of 4 (+2 step)

I just read the subsequent post. To tell you the truth, having a six year old write lines gives me the chills. It is a bit cruel. The worst part of the educational system has been this authoritarian style of discipline.

Hi L.- I glanced over a few responses and then quickly looked at your 2nd post. Just my 2 cents. Has anything changed to make her act this way? Is the way she is acting now a new develpment? If not it is usually and indicator something is wrong. If it is always the way she acts then just keep trying. Good luck

Hi L.,
Well, at the risk of being the most unfavorite poster ever, I'm going to say I completely disagree with the advice given by Nicole (no offense, honest Nicole. I just disagree). Lying is unacceptable. Period. Making a game of it only makes her think it's a game to lie. I have the same problem with my 7 year old. She doesn't lie quite to the extent your's does, but when she thinks she'll get in trouble, she'll lie, even though she knows we will find out later and she will have to pay the price. I believe in spanking, although I know not very many people do anymore. I believe we mothers know when our kids are lying. We know the types of things they say and their body language when they lie. I have a "no first warning" policy at our house. You don't get a first chance, second chance, third chance...etc. First time I catch her lying, it's a spanking, no questions asked. By this age, your child is very well aware she is lying, and it is not unusual for children this age to try to see how much they can push the envelope. The more you let her cross the boundaries, the more she will push farther and farther. I would encourage you to make the punishment swift and memorable and every single time she lies. Lying is not just an "annoying habit", it's a test of character and integrity. I'm sure she would not want to be known by her peers as "the girl who lies all the time." However, trying to reason with her probably won't work with her by this time. I think the only thing that will make a lasting impression is a good old fashioned spanking on the behind, enough so it stings and makes an memorable impression she doesn't want to repeat. And every single time. I can't stress that enough. Consistency is everything. If she thinks she can get away with it sometimes depending on your mood, she will continue to do it on the off-chance you won't follow through. Good luck to you and stay strong. It will be worth it when you see you have raised a young lady whose integrity and character are spotless. God bless.

I don't know what to tell you about the lying, other than to make sure the punishments are swift and consistent. Also, if I were you, I would start questioning EVERYTHING she says to me and tell her you have to do that because you can't trust her to tell you the truth. She will want you to trust her and may begin to realize that all of the lying has affected the way you and others see her and deal with her. As for the not applying herself in school, I've dealt with the situation numerous times. here's what I do. I tell the child if you won't apply yourself in school, you will apply yourself to school work all afternoon and evening. then, I make up school work for them to do - page after page after page after page. The whole time I remind them that it is easier and faster to do their work in school than it is for me to give them work all evening. One or two evenings of her sitting in her room doing page after page after page with no sympathy from you, she will understand that she better apply herself in school because it will be worse if she has to do it at home. Just last night I did this with my grandson - first I chose ten words that he had to write three times each and then use in a sentence. He went from that to writing 50 sentences about his behavior in school. From that, I made up two math papers, after that he read three chapters in a book and wrote me a book report. Finally, I handed him the dictionary and he is working on selecting a new word from each letter of the alphabet. He must write the word three times, write the meaning and then use the word in a sentence. he made it through "G" before bed time. I just called his teacher - she says whatever you did last night worked because it's like night and day - today he is attentive and is doing his work! You just have to show them that things can get worse!

Try to not ask her questions if you know what the answer is - instead of asking "have you brushed your teeth?" say, "Please brush your teeth now." Only ask questions if you genuinely want to find out an answer that only she knows. This will give her fewer opportunities to lie to you. (This is a hard habit to get into, I warn you!)

Be sure to also give her lots of attention and praise for not lying. It may be that she has discovered she can "push your buttons" and is getting a kick out of that (a small thrill or pleasure, and not without conflict, but still there).

{A 6-year-old is getting math tests in school?! Wow)

Relax Mom!! She is not doing anything unlike the typical little 6yr old girl...she is normal..you are normal. I have experienced this with my older boy and my current 6 yr old girl. Don't take it personally or think she is on the road to becoming a habitual lier. She sometimes just wants to test you, test her independence or just be contrary. As for the lying, I too just say please tell me the truth and the consequence for lying will be worse than just telling me what happened. I choose my battles and do not "punish" for little lies such as things like the doggy situation you mentioned. In that situation it is usually a simple, "I am disappointed when you don't tell me the truth and it makes it very hard for me to believe you when you are REALLY telling me the truth." When they do tell the truth I make a big deal about it and let them know how proud I am.
As for school..focus on the positive and maybe do a chart with her. She earns stickers for a good study session with you or your husband then earns stickers for applying herself and doing well on a test. Then after a couple good weeks she gets do pick a prize(keep prizes simple..pencils, erasers..art stuff) or outing with the family for an ice cream cone. I have noticed my kids work really good for incentives. I know I did when I was a kid. Heck...adults work harder for incentives!! Good luck...stay patient and let her know your expectations(but don't make them too high)

i think the crux of the matter is that she thinks there is always a "right answer" to a question. sometimes there is, but some situations you just want an explanation of what happened.
maybe you can try framing the questions differently so they don't sound so accusatory, and then praise her for telling the truth.

instead of "DID YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH?" knowing she didn't brush her teeth, just say, "i'd like you to come back in 3 minutes with a minty fresh mouth. minty kisses are my favorite!!"

i also think that making assumptions about what your child knows and doesn't know can be very dangerous. if this has been going on for a while, she may be dealing with some anxiety issue, which really does make a child forget or blank out. disappointing you is a major blow to her and she's probably lying because she thinks she'll avoid it, even though you have told her a million times that it is more disappointing to you that she lies.

i noticed this year that most of my frustrations with my students stemmed from these sorts of assumptions and expectations. when i wiped that slate clean and started framing things differently and starting listening more, things improved a lot. my students also heard me better.