Help! Advice? Encouragement?Anything!

What do you mean "I can't possibly move his bedtime"? You'd be surprised what a difference an hour can make. You're putting him to be when it's still light outside no wonder he's up before dawn!
Try getting him to bed between 8:30 and 9:00 and see how that goes.
And if/when he wakes up early either tell him he needs to stay in bed or let him crawl into bed with you and snuggle/sleep together. That's what we did when our kids woke up early.

When he gets home after his napping bus ride, give him a snack - and head out to the playground.
He needs running around and lots of fresh air - and that will help his sleeping.
At his age 8 hrs shouldn't be enough - 10 to 11 hrs is more typical.
You might want to talk to your pediatrician about this.

D.,

Your little man is growing up. Try moving his bedtime to 9PM - I know it sounds late for a 3 year old - but he might only need 8 hours of sleep. My daughter did this when she was 4 and going to pre-school. She wouldn't nap at school but on the short ride home, she'd nap and be WIDE AWAKE. We adjusted her bed time. We also had her walk the dog with us about 45 minutes before bed time - just to get that LAST BIT of energy out....

Since he's getting a power nap on the bus?? He needs a later bed time....otherwise?? I would tell him that if he gets up at that time? he is to play QUIETLY in his room so as NOT to disturb others.

Hope that helps!!

I think it's just a phase. Both my kids went through similar things at that age. Those ok to wake clocks are good but we just used a regular old digital clock. I taught my kids what 7:00 looked like and I told them that if they wake up they are not allowed out of their rooms before 7. They could play quietly with toys, look at books, lay in bed, whatever...but they couldn't leave their room (unless of course they had to potty) for any reason, especially not to wake me up.

It worked, they figured it out and although they weren't always necessarily "quiet" in their rooms I just tried to cover my head and deal with it because it was all part of the process! :) Eventually they realized it's not that much fun to play quietly in your room by yourself and they slept later (and so did I)...or maybe their phase was over and they went back to sleeping more normally!

I would just explain to him that if he wakes up it's fine, but you still need your sleep. Lay out the rules and expectations and go from there. I taught my kids this between ages 2-3 so he can do it. He might mess up and wake you up a couple times but simply tell him to go back to his room and that you are still sleeping. Don't take him back to his room just roll over and let him go back.

I feel like I need to add (because I'm sure there's people judging my technique!) that OF COURSE if there was ever an emergency, a bad dream, a real issue of any kind, I would help my children, but this really helped me get through that tough period and my kids learned how to entertain themselves too!

Since he has his own room? Tell him that if he wants to get up before the sun, that's fine. But he must stay in his room and read or play quietly and NOT wake anyone else up.

He's also at the age where a later bed time is going to be needed. Try putting him to bed 30 minutes later for about 3 or 4 days, then 1 hour for 3 or 4 days. It's an adjustment and see how he does. At 4, my kids were going to bed around 9PM and slept until about 6AM. Tyler and I asked them to be considerate of other people if they were the first to wake up.

I don't think 8 hours is enough. Mine quit naps around 3, but some kids still sleep 12 hours and then nap at that age.

Mine got up really early. About an hour later than yours is. Mine never slept till 7 am at that age. I remember some mornings of 5:30 am even when time changed. I'd aim for 6 am if I were you - I think it's more realistic.

So did this happen with the time change? If so, it takes time for them to adjust and I remember having to put bedtime back a bit until it got figured out.

I'd try the active after supper suggestion - get him outside and fresh air will help him sleep longer. Snack before bed so he's full - like toast or something. Make sure he's not waking to go to the washroom - so pee before bed. If he could read in his room for a bit or play quietly, have a little light in there and see if he'll stay.

When I was desperate for sleep and kids were going through phases like that, I'd let them turn the TV on in my room on low (have it set up to right channel and volume ahead of time) and they'd watch cartoons for a half hour or so until I was able to get up.

I'm sure he'll adjust - it's only April. It just takes a while sometimes :) good luck

My daughter's sleep time was never the recommended time. When she was your sons age she woke up as early as your son does so I told her she could play quietly in her room. Trying to force him to go back to sleep will make life harder on you. If he's not sleepy then he can't sleep. You may want to change his bed time to 8:30. I know that's just a half an hour but it could help. If that doesn't work try 9.

I know you are tired and frustrated but he is growing up. His sleep schedule may not be the sleep schedule of another 3 or 4 year old. He's clearly not hungry just awake. Tell him he can play quietly in his room until it's time to get up. I hope that will work for you. I will add this phase for my daughter lasted a few months then she was back on track. Good luck!!

His schedule should be something like this at school, and they ARE REQUIRED by most state laws to have any children under kindergarten age to take around a 1.5 hour nap, can be a little more and can be a little less. But kids under kindergarten age fall into child care age laws and they're different than elementary school age kids laws.

Up around 7 and go to child care/pre-school/etc...

Around 11 eat lunch

11:30noon lay down for nap

2pm up from nap, snack, ready for home.

around 6 dinner.

play time, family time, what life is about for the family.

Bedtime 8-9

In my opinion too many parents think "have dinner, kids off to bed, my time". I'm not saying that's what your thoughts are but is there any real reason kids can't be up later and spend time with mom and dad?

In all my years of child care and being a parent and having 7 grandchildren and friends with 4-8 kids I find that little kids don't need 10-12 hours of sleep at night. No one is wired that way.

The TOTAL numbers of RECOMMENDED sleep for kids includes their naps and rest times. If he's sleeping at all during the day that counts against his night time hours. He can't go to bed at 7pm and be expected to sleep past 5am. That's 10 hours. Kids will sleep maybe 9 at his age.

Sounds like my son. He is 6 now. Last night it was after 10 pm when he fell asleep. He was up shortly after 7 am. (My kids don't need to be up until 7:30.) That has pretty much been his status quo for a few years now. It was worse when he took an hour nap at daycare. He was often up until midnight then. Ready to go at 7 am! He is like his dad. Even a 10 minute nap in the car can rejuvenate him for hours.

My 8 year old daughter has also been a night owl since she was a baby. I never saw an 8:00 bed time with my kids.

I sometimes wish they went to bed earlier. I'd be able to watch "big people" TV. But I also played with the numbers one time and figure that by the time they are 18 I'm getting a whole year of extra time with my kids than if they went to bed at 8:00. I'd rather have those hours from 8-10 pm than from 4-6 am.

It isn't without consequence for me. I often go to bed with my kids. My house is not as clean as it should be. I don't get up as early as I should. I'm tired. But, in the grand scheme of things I decided if I couldn't beat them, I'd join them. I love our extra cuddle and reading time at the end of the day.

Try keeping him up later. That's probably the only way to reset his inner clock. It makes no sense to me to put him to bed earlier. If he can get by on 8-9 hours of sleep, putting him to bed earlier is just going to have him waking up earlier. Good luck! It took me a long time to come to peace with the fact my kids took after their dad when it came to sleep patterns!

A child this age does not need to eat at 4:40 AM. Stop feeding him. Do you have a black-out shade or a white noise machine? Sometimes the longer days of sunlight and the wildly chirping birds wake kids up (adults too).

Let him chatter but don't let him engage with you. If he stays up, so be it, but he has to be able to be bored enough to go back to bed. Let him read in bed (sometimes they nod off again) or get that alarm that says when it's okay to come out of the room. Tell him there's no talking to anyway else in the middle of the night.

I'm not sure keeping him up later will affect the wake-up time, just the exhaustion factor.

And sorry about your husband being no help.

Get him a digital clock and write on a note card the time he can get up. Tell him once the numbers on the clock match the note card he can get out of bed for the day.My now 13 yr old grandson can tell you that he had to stay in bed until 700.He would play quietly and it worked out great.

Also make sure he has a lot of running around time when he gets home. A tired boy is a good boy. lol

i have heard that the Ok To Wake alarm clock helps. it glows a certain color till a preset time (that you set) then it goes green letting the child know its ok to get out of bed.
i also know that my kids were rising way too early and then daylight savings time hit and they are waking an hour later than they used to. (but they are also super cranky if they rise too early and often get reminded all day long that they got up too early and no whining allowed or go take a nap)

My daughter was similar. Gave up naps early (before 3 unless it was an accidental falling asleep in the car situation, and when the car stopped, she was done). By age 4 (preK) she was the kid in class who never fell asleep during nap time after lunch, and was allowed to lie quietly on her nap mat and read books (she was a reader already, yes) until it was time to get up.

I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but what if you tried putting him to bed a little sooner? We started bedtime routines around 7:00pm and tried to have them in bed by 7:30 or so at that age. I realize, you are thinking "He'll be up at 3:45 am.!!" but, maybe he won't. It can't hurt to give it a try.
Beyond that, I've heard of people marking a clock (with hands) with tape and telling them they aren't allowed to get up/come out of their room until the short hand is in the (whatever color) part.

Eventually, one day, he will sleep until noon (or you wake him up). That's what teens tend to do. LOL

Maybe your son just doesn't need as much sleep. Try adjusting his routine and keep it for a week or two to see if helps. I would try to put him to bed a little earlier than normal and if that doesn't work then I would try to put him down a bit later than normal.

My daughter is also 3, turning 4 in July. Her bedtime routine starts around 7:30-7:45 pm and she's in bed by 8:15-8:30 pm. I have noticed in the recent months that it takes her longer to fall asleep (I can hear her chattering through the monitor). Also, her naps have gotten significantly shorter. Her naps are only about an hour now. Up until a few months ago, she was sleeping about 2 hours. Maybe kids sleep patterns change when they're around this age.

I am not understanding your math on moving the bedtime. He goes to bed at 8 and gets up at nearly 5. So 9 would be 6 and 10 would be 7. Not sure where you are getting midnight. I get that quiet time at night is nice but you, yourself, need to go to bed at the same time he is so you can get up at 4:40 or you are going to have to move that bedtime.

Perhaps just by moving it an hour he won't hear whatever is waking him at 4:40. If I had to venture a guess it is a neighbor going to work who drives a loud vehicle like a diesel truck or a motorcycle.....or just likes a loud car, who knows. It is just an exact time like that screams something on a schedule and that would be another human being. Oh, or it could be when an early neighbor lets out a barking dog..... You get the idea.

My daughter is exactly the same age and was having similar issues and I was exhausted. We got a special wake up clock that has the moon up during the night and then the sun come up at the time you set (ours is 615am). We told her that the rule is that she is not allowed to leave her bed or yell for us until the sun comes up (unless of course she is sick or something). She has some books/stuffed animals in her bed if she wakes up, but now that she's used to having to stay in bed she sleeps longer. It took some practice and reminders and rewards/consequences at first, but now if she wakes up before the "sun" is up she knows she has to stay quietly in her bed. Maybe worth a try?

total sleep time for a 3 year old should be 11-12 hours. Sleep problems with this age are common because their brains are transforming like crazy into real little people.

I'd suggest a bedtime no later than 7:30. You need to put him to bed earlier to get a later wake time. With that said, a rise time around 5:3-6 is just common for some kids. My 3 year old rarely sleep past 6.

Move bed time earlier by 15 minutes tonight, and keep doing so until he is in bed by 7:30 the latest. If he doesn't want to sleep, tell him a story, and then say you need to go do something but will be back in a minute. He should just fall asleep.

Check his diet. Caffeine can hide in places you wouldn't think of.

My oldest kid has to get up for school by 6:30am. I get up at 6:00am to have some quiet time and coffee before I have to do the mom things. I would prefer to keep night owl hours, but in order to get enough sleep, it means that I go to bed shortly after the kids do. If your son is in bed at 8pm, get yourself to bed by 9pm most of the time so that you get enough sleep.