Heart Just Not in It

Hello J.,
I am giving you this advice as a child of a divorced family. My father was unfaithful to my mother and the way she became my hero was standing up for herself and for us and asking him to leave. He didn't just cheat on her, he cheated on all of us. As an adult, I have great relationships with both of them and a very happy marriage. That said, I don't know if you need to leave or not. What I do know is that staying in the marriage for the children doesn't work. You will not have the happy environment and whole heart you need for raising your boys. Besides, your children are looking to you and your husband as examples. Is this how you treat the woman you are married to? Should your boys treat their wives that way if they are to marry? Does their father have no responsibility in this situation. These are choices he made and he needs to be accountable for them. I think individual counseling and couple counseling is a great idea. If you can find a way to get past the betrayal and trust your husband again, then you can go on as a whole person. Maybe together you can uncover why he cheats, because if he doesn't figure it out, it will happen again and you deserve better. Don't second guess yourself. Trust your instincts. You love your husband and your children but it is okay, even imperative, that you love yourself just as much. You deserve to be treated well and your sons need to know how a man should really treat the mother of his children. You have every right to feel the way you do. Everyone has feelings and to suggest that we don't is ridiculous. God gave you feelings and instinct as well as a sense of right and wrong. Trust yourself to do the right thing. God will guide your heart too. I'm sending you much love and strength. Best wishes,
L

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J.,

I hope all goes well for you, and I just wanted to say this: Children would rather be FROM a broken home than IN one. Your kids know something is wrong with Mom and Dad, and they have a phenomenal ability to internalize your strife and make it all their fault. Something along the lines of "if I didn't hit my little brother so much Mommy and Daddy wouldn't be so mad".

Do what you feel right, but keep in mind that kids are incredibly more perceptive than even us parents give them credit for.

Hope this helps,
M.

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It sounds like you are not really dealing with the pain that this betrayal has caused. And what has your husband done to show you that he will not cheat again?
If the reason the two of you are staying together is for the kids - that's just so sad.
We set an example for love for our children. They look to us to learn how to be married, have a family, etc.
When one spouse cheats on the other, not once, but twice...something's really wrong. There is a lack of trust and respect. How can the boys look at their dad and learn this is the way you treat your wife? How can your husband use your love for your children to guilt you into taking him back TWICE?

It sounds to me like you are a little numb to all of it - and for good reason.
Giving the boys the happiest childhood they can have is not "putting on an act" - a play - a show...they'll feel the falseness of all of it. And the biggest pitfall here is you'll know in your heart you are a fraud. You are not being true to yourself.

In my opinion (I am divorced and remarried) the only way you will probably recover from this is to get into counseling and work it out with him. You need to feel connected. You need to take care of yourself.
J., this is how so many women end up on anti-depressants. They give up their own feelings for taking care of everyone else - and they stop caring for their first responsibility - YOU. The right-wing religious folks will tell you to sacrifice your own desires and happiness for your family - the bible says to not put yourself in harms way too. God gave you your life to care for and protect - your soul and your body.

It is my belief that finding a balance between your emotions and logic is the best way to make a decision. Give yourself some time - as much time as you need - but of course you want to feel better.
And I hope you do soon.

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J.- of course your heart is not in it--- that doesn't mean the truly joyful feeling might not come back-- it may ( you MORE than deserve it)--- It will be a really slow--- step by step process whichever direction you move in. Bless you dear heart--- enjoy your babies - do your best- and be kind to yourself------ no way your heart can be ''in it'' right now--- give yourself a year --- and during that year- I guarantee-- some clarity will come to you - that you can move forward to a better marriage with your childrens' father- -- or move away from him to a more separate living arrangement. Clarity will come-- I promise

Blessings,
J.- aka - -old Mom

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J., just so you know, this is not personal but, I am pretty lame at sugar coating things....sorry in advance.:-)

It is not about how you "feel" and it does not matter if you're heart is "in it"... it matters what you DO! Feelings make a lousy yard stick by which to measure truth or rightness of a decision. Both God and man do not measure us by what we "feel" but by what we DO! You have a choice, not a "feeling" to make.

I completely disagree that kids are better off with divorced parents, that is just non-sense. Kids know when it is hard going at home but wouldn't you rather send the message that they are worth staying together for and that,you,(no matter what the other party did)sticks by your promises? That you suck it up and do what is right... because it is right?

Your husband followed his "feelings" when he cheated on you...and that was wrong!

You have the opportunity to become a hero in your kids lives, someone of incredible strength and integrity that they will want to emulate. Let this be your encouragement to do whatever you can to keep this family together. Stand up for what is right.

Hugs and prayers for you,
AD

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You can make it! Your plea is full of encouraging information! You are both working toward being healthy! Yes!
It is totally understandable that your heart is not in it -- you don't feel warm fuzzies. He totally broke your trust! He has to prove himself trustworthy again. That will take time -- a lot of it. You will likely have a roller coaster time of it -- lots of ups and downs. But stick with it! It is worth it!! (voice of experience)
It is not about giving your boys the "happiest" childhood you can. That is not your job. You cannot possibly "make" them happy. Nor can anyone else "make" you happy. We each make our own choices.

Personally, I believe true contentment and happiness only comes in relationship with God. When I get most disgruntled is when I have taken my focus off God -- how God sees me, what He wants me to do, how He wants me to live -- and think more about my circumstances, those around me disappointing me. Very hard to walk the fine line between focusing only on God and living the life He has given me, maintaining healthy boundaries with those around me.

Okay, enough rambling. Just stay with it. It is SO worth the work!! I'm praying for you.

C.

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I'm sorry I don't have time to read the other responses ...

I have no idea where this quote came from, but it is used by the Retrouvaille program at my church to try to reach out to struggling couples (and I'm sure it would have been true in our case, if my ex had been open to having faith, because when I fell apart, I hit bottom and was on my way out of the hole, but my husband was too tired of (whatever) to open up to the new me) ...

"Sociologists have identified four stages of marriage. They are: (1) Romance, (2) Disillusionment, (3) Misery, and (4) Awakening. Many marriages experience the first three stages. Marriages that end in divorce never make it to the fourth stage of Awakening. Don't give up without learning about the fourth stage of Awakening."

Now that I type that, I for the first time notice that they didn't say, "without experiencing," but "without learning about" ... that was honest of them ... because the next thing I was going to say, was, if the other partner isn't *in fact* making life changes but is only making surface changes, then they aren't ready to bring you to Awakening, whether or not you are willing to take the leap of faith to try it. My ex thought I was making surface changes, but he was wrong--I finally became capable of truly being a wife as he was in the process of pulling out of the marriage, first emotionally and then physically and legally.

I guess the other piece I would hand you, is a self-reflection piece. Stepping into a relationship in trust, when you know factually that you can't trust the other partner, is obviously challenging. Some of my greatest and most rapid and profound self-healing, occurred when I chose to radically and against all evidence trust my partner to *be* my partner.

Besides the joy of the (very painful!, but oh so important) growth I experienced during that time, I have absolutely no guilt that I ended the marriage. I gave it may all, my whole self. He couldn't pull the faith, did not choose to trust, taught himself to hate and despise me in order to try to escape "me" (mostly the trap he perceived and projected onto me). Radical trust is scary; it was truly a leaning over the abyss ... but the world (God--even during the time when I didn't think he was there--and my friends and even the children) held me up ...

Which is not to say, you must make that extremely irrational choice. It would be a step of faith, for sure. But I just wanted to offer the radical extreme, for you to consider ...

I would encourage you to at least commit fully to counseling. Commit that you will bring yourself to counselling, and you will expect him to bring himself ... maybe you will find out/decide that you two *aren't* going to work out. But at least you will find that out with a relatively objective person making sure you both keep it honest, and hopefully demanding you both expose the issues you will otherwise carry into future relationships.

Remember, you can divorce him, he can divorce you ... but you will always have to live with yourself. Even if this is the end of your marriage relationship, don't lose the opportunity to set yourself up to be more self-knowledgeable and relationship-healthy for the rest of your life (and your children's lives).

Also remember, you will have to interact actively with this man until the kids are 18 or out of college ... counseling will set you up to make a smooth transition to custody negotiations (and later, re-negotiations)--again, if that is the path you-all take. If he has felt listened to, the financial negotiations might be less acrimonious too. Both of these applied in our case.

Divorce is a very very unpleasant process, although yes freeing. I could and can see how our relationship could have transitioned to similar freedom; he could not (and presumably does not ;) sigh... ) see that.

Make sure you read the divorce parenting books for the basic stuff like "try to stay out of court at all costs" (for the kids).

I am very sorry you have this to face. Mustering emotional energy to work on a situation you perceive as unworkable seems such a waste. I hope I at least have suggested why emotionally committing to counseling as a discovery opportunity will be a good solid emotional and psychological investing ...

Namaste ... God bless you ...

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Sorry - this might be harsh, but I would be done. Fool me once - shame on you - fool me twice - shame on me. Staying together for sake of the kids isnt always the best answer. You want your kids to see a loving, supportive connected relationship instead of one for the sake of it. Remember - they will model thier relationship from yours.
You ready for a repeat? Once a cheater - always a cheater in my mind. Until that is they find the one they wont cheat with.

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J.-

I really feel your pain. I think I understand what you're feeling. You say that you love your husband, but your heart isn't in it. What you've lost is respect. You can't bring yourself to respect him anymore and you feel like you've lost some self-respect.

Can I encourage you to perservere here? You don't have to be inauthentic, but if you keep going through the motions, and keep tabs on your thoughts, your feelings will catch up. It's a matter of leading your feelings instead of being led by them. Find one thing each day that you can genuinely appreciate about your husband, something that you can really respect, and then tell him.

This isn't a cure-all, just one step down a long road (trust me, I'm on the same journey here). But I do know that it can be done! Don't lose hope! For a while it may feel like "auto pilot", but it isn't forever.

And you are right, a solid marriage is the best place for a happy childhood for your sons. And since you are raising boys, may I suggest this: Treat your husband the way you'd like to see your (future) daughter-in-laws treat your sons some day.

Good luck to you, and congratulations on making the tough decision.

-B. M.-

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Hi J. - As you can tell from the comments we are all behind you and supporting you! This is no easy path to be traveling. I totally agree to take a few minutes (ok 2 hrs) and watch FireProof! That is such a moving compassionate movie for marriages. Yes, the Love Dare is a wonderful tool that will save not only your marriage but your heart as well if you allow it. It helps take your "Heart just not in it" and works through the pain to get to the "heart" of the matter. I also agree with the comments of getting good one-on-one counseling (helps if the counselor is familiar with the Love Dare). Also check out http://www.focusonthefamily.com/marriage.aspx for some great resources (articles, books, etc) on dealing with marriage - including affairs, separation, and how to rebuild your relationship (and lots more). They even have links to free counseling.

If you want to save your marriage and have real feelings then it will take real work on both parts, it wont happen over night but it will happen given the right work - just think of your marriage as a garden. Things have been good, but a few weeds pop up and try to take over the good fruit and veggies (including your kids). If you and your husband have not been working in the garden regularly and you turn around and then see how many weeds. A good gardener will start in one spot and work one row at a time until all the weeds are out, not just skip around leaving some behind. We all have gardens that need upkeep, it is an ongoing process - no we don't want to weed but we do feel better when it is all done, then maintenance is easy. God Bless

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Perhaps I could forgive this the first time, and move on, but not when it's happened the second time. No wonder you feel that you can't connect with him.

As for his telling you himself, was that to share his quilt with you, knowing how it would make you feel, or because he was afraid that after 3 months, he was close to getting caught anyway?

His doing this doesn't mean that he's sorry he did it, just that it was over, and he knew from before, that it would be alright to tell you; nothing happened last time (you didn't leave him, etc.), so what does he have to worry about?

Do you really believe that it's better for your children to have you stay in a marriage where you and your husband will never have a close relationship again; you may think you will, but you will never be able to fully feel secure in your trust of him.

Your children, even at their young age know something is going on, and keeping them in a situation like that is not the best thing for them. Don't you think that if you were away from the situation in an environment of not worrying about trust, and "is it happening again", that you would be more relaxed, calm, and less concerned with what your husband is doing, and with whom? And wouldn't your children feel your calm, relaxation, and general all 'round well being, and also be calmer, more content, and happier?

And another big concern in my opinion, what kind of STD is he going to bring you one of these days? Something penicillin can take care of, or something that nothing yet can? Don't think it can't happen, that he's protecting himself. My mother-in-law at 70 was given an STD from a 75 yo husband doing the same thing, when she took him back the second time; but she was lucky, penicillin worked. Are you willing to take that chance with your life, and your children's?

Others may think differently, I just feel that my husband should love and honor me as he promised when we married, and care about me and our family enough, that if he feels our relationship isn't enough for him, that he lets me know "first", so I can walk away before he has a relationship with someone else if that's my choice, or stay and fight to stop him from having a relationship if I thought it was worth the fight.

Be smart, worry about yourself first, your children second, and your husband last. He gave up first place in your life a long time ago, when it happened the first time, but again? Why is there any question about staying with him if you already feel as you do?

Getting out of this funk you're in will never happen, you will never trust him fully again, knowing that he lied to you the first time when he said "never again honey, I'm so sorry", etc., because it obviously meant nothing to him then, do you think it would now?

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I don't have an answer for your question, but just wanted to remind you that you teach your children what a marriage is by example. You may think that staying together is the best thing for the kids, but your kids will see through the perfect facade that outsiders cannot, and they will learn that that is what their marriage should look like too. Treating eachother well is great and is much better than the lesson lots of other parents are teaching by treating eachother disrespectfully, but you don't want to teach them marriage without love, passion, and devotion. I am not saying to bail on the relationship because I am not a fan of "'til death do us part" being changed to "'until I don't like it anymore". Take some time for yourself and then give it your best. Your husband needs a good knock up side the head!!!

I am sorry that things are not going easily for you and I wish you both much success in your relationship.

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Love is unconditional but trust must be earned. Without trust, you don't have a relationship. I am sorry that you have to go through this pain, and through no fault of your own. Rebuilding trust takes time so don't be surprised or feel bad that you do not feel connected to your husband. That can only happen with time and consistent behavior on your husband's part.

Perhaps your husband needs to see a therapist or join an accountability group to address his own issues first, before you head to couples counseling. You could use the time for your own counseling, to help you heal.

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J.,

If you can do a daily/weekly journal of your feelings that can be helpful for you/therapy. Marriage is an investment. Invest in creating happiness from within your foundation.

Cheating is HIS issue which in turn brings you into the issue. He obviously has deeper issues that stem from childhood years. He needs to deal with his shame and get into some serious therapy. Having children does absorb the time/energy/love we use to give to our mate so that can be the missing piece.

Here's a thought, maybe you need to both have a contract and sign it. Maybe creating date nights for just the two of you. I would do everything to avoid Divorce. That road should be the less traveled. I know you will follow your heart and now go do the right thing! Easier said then done! M.

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Hi J.,

What you are going through is devastating and it is normal for your heart to shut down for a while. Go see the counselor one on one for a while so you can sort out your feelings privately and see if this really is the best thing for you. You need help mending your broken heart. If you and your husband are to succeed at getting past this you need to be rock solid together. Going through the motions will not give your children the happy childhood you want for them. If you two can dig in and really do the work, they will get it. Children pick up on everything. They will know if it is 18 years of going through the motions. Get to your counselor privately and work on healing your heart.

Take Care,
C.

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Staying married for kids is not the answer, you need to be married for you. Kids are resillient and will get over it. So he cheated on you before and after kids were in the relationship, was he going out with someone when you met? That is always a good indicator of if someone might cheat but it is often overlooked. I would say that he will continue to cheat every few years. Did you recently find out about his last affair or has this been stewing for a while? Plus finding out from the woman's husband and not your own makes me wonder what else he is hiding, have there been others that he hasn't told you about? One thing for sure you can bet is that I would be getting tested for diseases, HIV can take years to show up and I would make him wear a condom (personally I wouldn't be having sex anymore but that is just me). By you taking him back over and over you are saying to him that you are ok with his cheating because he has had no consequence. If you do get divorced, nothing says you can't get married again in the future if you both want to. If you really are going to stay with him then have some consequences for his actions. Make sure you can support yourself by ensuring you have skills/knowledge to re-enter the workforce just in case, plus it is empowering to know that you can be ok by yourself. Good luck in whatever you choose but remember you get one life and it is pretty short in the whole scheme of things so make it enjoyable, do you want to spend the next 15 years "acting?"

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This is such a delicate subject. I can't even begin to imagine the pain and emotions you must be going through...

In my personal opinion, I think it's really great that he's willing to even go to counseling and do what he can fix his mistake - but if he's done this before and didn't tell you this time, I would seriously have to reconsider my life. While having a mom and dad is ideal for many people, so is having a happy mom and dad. It's not fair to you to have to hold your marriage together, and kids are smart - they know when there's something wrong; even when you do your best to try and convince yourself otherwise.

There is something that your husband hasn't dealt with since before you were married it seems, and until he does I would suggest a trial separation. He needs to have some time to figure out what he really wants in life - and being separated from his personal residence for a while might help.

Whatever you decide to do, just remember that you didn't cause this. He has issues that he hasn't dealt with.

Take care, my thoughts are with you.

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Hi J.!

I would also say that it's not actually the right thing to do to stay on auto-pilot just for the sake of staying. That said, you really do have a lot of positives to keep you in it. At this point, it seems like the focus in therapy (on your end) should be trying to reconnect, while he tries to rebuild trustworthiness. Your honesty is wonderful, and I think you should take that into your sessions so you can truly work toward having a happy, healthy marriage. But there are way too many people who stay "for the kids" and then it is either obviously unhealthy and makes the kids insecure or the marriage appears to fall apart when the kids leave the house, and the then-18-year-olds go through blaming themselves for their parents' split. I wish you all the best.

L.

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I've read a few responses, and still feel like weighing in. I think he has lost your trust, and needs to earn it back. Are you going to a counselor? This should be discussed. We all learn lessons throughout our lives, and not trusting your husband is one you learned. You can't just switch it on and off. I understand how you feel, and think it is based on feeling powerless, disrespected, etc. You need to go beyond those numbing feelings like "auto pilot" and uncover your true feeling before you can move on.

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I would certainly rethink being a "stay home Mom" You are at his mercy. Consider all options, perhaps going back to school to ready yourself for the job market.

Do they still work together?

Where do you see yourself in 5 years? 10 years?
Take care,
P.

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Dear J.,

I'm sorry you're going through this. It must be very difficult. It's clear you want to do what is best for your children. I'm wondering, have you said the exact thing to your counselor/therapist? (You mention your husband agreed to counseling but it isn't clear if you've actually started going or not.) People can change, so if you love your husband and the sex is good, etc., there might be something there worth saving. My guess is you're wary of putting too much of yourself in the relationship now that you've been burned twice. You need to decide what you want to do. If it helps, write out a pro/con list and make sure your needs are counted as well as those of your children. Ask yourself if you want to find a way to reconnect. If you do, consider what might be currently making it difficult to do so. Being on auto pilot to keep up appearances probably isn't the best for your kids. They will be seeing things up close and won't be fooled for long.

Best of luck. You're going to get through this just fine.

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Is there someone you can go to to talk this out? Maybe counseling? Complete forgiveness is a process and is worth pursuing for the sake of your children. To forgive a big thing like adultery takes time. Give yourself plenty of time to get over this. Face your anger, sense of betrayal, and forgive over time. You are obviously depressed due to the awful thing that you have been put through (yet again).

Try praying, going to church. Ask God to help you forgive. He will. Maybe give your husband an ultimatum - if it happens again - that's it! In the Orthodox Christian church we have confession - which is a very powerful way for your husband to overcome his "problem" and through confession we can also forgive.

It is worth staying together for your children. I saw a wonderful brave neighbor who managed, after her husband's philandering (multiple times), who dealt with her emotions, talked about her issues with the affair, and now they have a strong marriage. She is one of the gutsiest ladies I know.

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Hi J.! My heart breaks for you. So hard to get through it when you are the one betrayed....BUT....it is possible! I believe God created us with hearts that are capable of forgiveness and grace. I realize you have done this twice now, and you don't have much grace left!! Now that your husband has broken the trust you built back up over the years, you will need to start over. If your husband is serious about the counseling and committing to you, this is good, because you need to begin again. Trust takes time to build, and you will have to start from the beginning....almost like you are dating again. Slowly but surely, you will feel connected to him again, you will have to work harder at it, but it seems to me, like you are wanting to do the hard work so as to not end up in a divorce...I commend you for this. It is extremely hard. Hang in there, it will be worth it in the end. Take care!

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Have you tried the Love Dare? I suggest watching the movie "Fire Proof" first.

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I believe really really strongly that what is bad for the Mom is not good for the kids, no matter what the first glance would show. I think your kids would benefit far more from you saying 'I need to take this step (of leaving your dad) to keep myself happy and healthy.' They would further benefit from your modeling the self-care skills to pursue a life that you find rewarding and beneficial. Please don't stay in a marriage ONLY because 'it is good for the kids'.

(My husband and i are both the products of divorces families. We both think our parents did the right thing by calling it quits on the original marriages and moving forward. One of the best things that our parents did was to remain friends with the exes - at least the extent of modeling civility, cooperation, and a mutual love of their children.)

All that said, no relationship is always easy. I've had (short) periods of time feeling the way you do without any drastic misbehavior on either spouse's part. I think its ok to give yourself time, and give yourself permission to feel what you are feeling. If you need to take a vacation (girls weekend at the spa? long weekend at parents'?), or make your husband sleep in the spare room, or just feel out of sorts and grumpy for a while, thats okay. Keep up with your therapy for a while, and see how things go.

If you truly (already have?) reach the point where you find you just have no hope for the union, than use your therapy to work with your husband so that you can have the best divorced relationship possible. Work with him so your kids get a united front of 'Mom and Dad are choosing to live apart, but we are still, jointly, your parents. We'll work with you, and with each other, to make sure you have all the support and love you could ever wish for.'

and good luck!

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I don't have a perfect answer for you...

As a child of divorce I know that it affected me well into adulthood (I was 6 when my parents split) and I would not want that for my child.

On the other hand I can see how you feel that there should be something more in your life, than just "existing" next to your husband and I do agree that everybody deserves that.

I have to disagree that all marriages that stay together for the kids are "terrible", it all depends on the execution. I know quite a couple of families with an arrangement like that, that has worked out well for everyone involved. Just like some couples manage an amicable divorce that does not hurt the children's relationship with one or both parents.

I would suggest that you start individual counseling in addition to your marital counseling sessions (if you can afford it) or ask your current counselor for a few solo sessions.

In the end you will have to find out for yourself whether or not the relationship really can be repaired and whether or not you still love your husband or are willing to live in a marriage without love.

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Like many others, I highly recommend seeing a really good counselor. Couples counseling is not easy, and many couples counselors are not very good, so if you don't feel like you're making progress with the one you're seeing, I'd suggest keeping looking until you find a really good one. Also individual therapy. A couple of book suggestions - You Still Don't Understand is highly recommended (I haven't read it). Coming Apart is very good if you're considering separating. I'd chime in with other responders that staying together without a heart connection is not necessarily good for the children, in fact could be quite harmful to them. They could have a very happy childhood with good and separate relationships with both of their parents living in separate households - and this could work especially well in your case, since it sounds like you and their father communicate well. I'd encourage you to be gentle with yourself and give yourself time to heal and make the best decision.

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